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Posted: 7/18/2008 10:05:27 AM EST
A business puts up a sign refusing admittance to some protected class... blacks, gays, women, Muslims, disabled, etc.

What do you think?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:09:58 AM EST
I may not agree with it, but it is their right.
BTW, gays are not protected in most states. (No fed law for it like the rest of your examples).
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:11:14 AM EST
That place of business won't be seeing any of my money.

But as a private enterprise, I believe in their right to do it.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:12:52 AM EST
I would agree to a sign saying "No illegals allowed" and then administer a few American quiz questions to them, if they can't answer then turn them away. If you are an American and can't answer the questions then go learn about your country and come back later. The questions would change every day BTW.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:12:56 AM EST
I believe they have the right to do it, and I believe I have the right to not patronize them over it.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:13:39 AM EST
Why should the .gov be able to tell a privately owned business who they have to cater to. In my state, certain cities are banning smoking in privately owned restaurants and bars. Its outrageous! If you don't like the smoke, don't go. If you don't like the sign in the window, don't go. On the other hand, If a black person were to walk into said store, i don't think they could make him leave just for being black and the person could sue.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:15:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:15:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 10:16:45 AM EST by david_g17]

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I believe they have the right to do it, and I believe I have the right to not patronize them over it.


+1

i don't really dwell on it if they discriminate against whites, blacks, the elderly, children, bald people, left handed people, or people who shoot 1911's.

eta:
there are plenty of places in Chicago, Detroit, LA, etc. that I know I'm not welcome. So, I'll never go there.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:15:50 AM EST
You reap what you sow.

Publicizing such a policy is certain to bring a shitstorm down on your head. If you are willing to accept the consequences, it's your life.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:16:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
That place of business won't be seeing any of my money.

But as a private enterprise, I believe in their right to do it.


Right on!
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:38:26 AM EST
Its their right to run their business as they see fit. Even running it into the ground by doing stupid shit like that.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:40:11 AM EST
It would be burned down within a week by someone.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:40:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By rxdawg:
Its their right to run their business as they see fit. Even running it into the ground by doing stupid shit like that.


...as long as the government doesn't bail them out for doing stupid things (Fannie May, Freddy Mac, et al.), I agree 100%!!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:44:28 AM EST
I believe that it is their right if the business is a sole-proprietorship.

However, an incorporated entity is a seperate legal entity that enjoys a different legal status. For example, an owner will not lose his personal house if his incorporated business goes bankrupt. I believe that such corporations must have to abide by equal-access regulations.

This is the arguement I use when I see "no guns allowed" signs on businesses. Are they sole-proprietorships? If not, than I should be allowed to carry my gun.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:46:34 AM EST
that is covered under the right to refuse service to ANYBODY, if they have that sign posted

morally wrong for some yes, but well within their rights
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:53:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
That place of business won't be seeing any of my money.

But as a private enterprise, I believe in their right to do it.


This is where I stand.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:55:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:56:45 AM EST
It's business suicide but if they want to do it more power to them.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:59:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:00:03 AM EST by Ripak]

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
kanarcek.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/pi.jpg


Best reply to an ass of a new thread.

OP is ing
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:04:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
That place of business won't be seeing any of my money.

But as a private enterprise, I believe in their right to do it.


I agree. I rather have a place advertise that my money is not welcome than have to guess. A racist will not become non-racist just because the government tells them to.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:07:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:08:01 AM EST by akethan]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
tag




Tag O' death
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:09:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:19:42 AM EST by KUpolo]

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I believe they have the right to do it, and I believe I have the right to not patronize them over it.


What if their business is still wildly successful and others in the same industry as them decide to follow suit thereby effectively blocking out access to whatever goods they sell to this group. What if they decide to exercise their right to not buying their supplies from any vendors who sell to a store servicing the discriminated against group in doing so not allowing the distributor to sell to the group they are attempting to discriminate against? (rambling sentence hope you followed)

You can't expect the free market to protect a small group.

Remember, it was laws and not economics that forced desegregation in this country.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:11:51 AM EST
So long as they aren't receiving any government grants, I don't have a problem with it.

If a store wished to cater strictly to gay black midgets, I'd let them. Sure it means I couldn't shop there, but its the right of the business owner.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:12:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
kanarcek.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/pi.jpg


I want one of those!
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:13:35 AM EST
Their business.


Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:15:04 AM EST
Well, I feel offended when I see a "no guns" sign on the front door of stores.

If that is legal and/or ethical, then so is a sign saying "no _______"
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:15:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
That place of business won't be seeing any of my money.

But as a private enterprise, I believe in their right to do it.



what he said.....
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:16:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I believe they have the right to do it, and I believe I have the right to not patronize them over it.


What if their business is still wildly successful and others in the same industry as them decide to follow suit thereby effectively blocking out access to whatever goods they sell to this group. What if they decide to exercise their right to not buying their supplies from a certain vendor thereby forcing him to not sell to the group they are attempting to discriminate against?

You can't expect the free market to protect a small group.

Remember, it was laws and not economics that forced desegregation in this country.


The problem is that, what right does the government have to tell a business owner or even anyone who they have to do business with?

If a girl doesn't date men of middle eastern decent, does the government have to right to tell her she has to date them?

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:16:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Well, I feel offended when I see a "no guns" sign on the front door of stores.

If that is legal and/or ethical, then so is a sign saying "no _______"


Stupidest comment of the thread by far.

You can put your gun down. You can't stop being "black, Irish, gay, etc."
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:17:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:20:21 AM EST by KUpolo]

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:


The problem is that, what right does the government have to tell a business owner or even anyone who they have to do business with?

If a girl doesn't date men of middle eastern decent, does the government have to right to tell her she has to date them?



So you are against civil rights laws?

there is a big difference between doing business with someone and sucking their dick. (Unless you are a hooker)
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:21:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Well, I feel offended when I see a "no guns" sign on the front door of stores.

If that is legal and/or ethical, then so is a sign saying "no _______"


Stupidest comment of the thread by far.

You can put your gun down. You can't stop being "black, Irish, gay, etc."


Well, maybe you can't stop being gay...

Michael Jackson would take issue with being black.

At any rate, lighten up Francis.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:22:32 AM EST
I think it's your business, you do run it how you want. If that means you eliminate a good portion of your market, and piss off a good portion of the rest, so be it. One exception would be if you were receiving government money- the government can't discriminate, and neither can you if you're using their money.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:24:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By GySgtD:

Well, maybe you can't stop being gay...

Michael Jackson would take issue with being black.

At any rate, lighten up Francis.


Thanks Chief.

OK, black guys that don't have hit records in the 80's can't stop being black.



Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:26:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:


The problem is that, what right does the government have to tell a business owner or even anyone who they have to do business with?

If a girl doesn't date men of middle eastern decent, does the government have to right to tell her she has to date them?



So you are against civil rights laws?

there is a big difference between doing business with someone and sucking their dick. (Unless you are a hooker)


I simply believe private citizens should be free to make their own social choices on how they run things whether it be their private lives or their business.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:28:26 AM EST
Horrible business sense at best
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:29:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:31:16 AM EST by MagKnightX]
If they are a private entity, I believe it is their right to refuse service to anybody for any reason, including racism, sexism, and other bigotry, and my right to take my business elsewhere because of their decision. And I'm certain that I wouldn't be alone; they'd have to have a very loyal, very rich clientele, because said clientele would be so small they couldn't stay afloat otherwise.

However, I don't believe the government has the right to refuse service to anybody based on such criteria.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:31:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:


I simply believe private citizens should be free to make their own social choices on how they run things whether it be their private lives or their business.


So given my scenario where a group of business owners in effect becomes a cartel who decide that they hate all Purple People who happen to only make up 0.005% of the population and have no effective market power, you're all right with it?

The whole point of legislating anti discrimination is that the people that are being discriminated against usually are minorities and do not have the economic clout to force equality.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:32:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Horrible business sense at best


Depends where you are an which group you are discriminating against. I would imagine that it could actually be a good business model in some cases.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:35:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:


I simply believe private citizens should be free to make their own social choices on how they run things whether it be their private lives or their business.


So given my scenario where a group of business owners in effect becomes a cartel who decide that they hate all Purple People who happen to only make up 0.005% of the population and have no effective market power, you're all right with it?

The whole point of legislating anti discrimination is that the people that are being discriminated against usually are minorities and do not have the economic clout to force equality.


Heres my thoughts on your proposed scenario. Discrimination for stupid reasons sucks. Having the government impose on the rights of a private citizen sucks even more.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:41:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:


Heres my thoughts on your proposed scenario. Discrimination for stupid reasons sucks. Having the government impose on the rights of a private citizen sucks even more.



So where does justice come in to play and who delivers it?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:42:53 AM EST
That business would last about as long as this thread is going to.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:44:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:


Heres my thoughts on your proposed scenario. Discrimination for stupid reasons sucks. Having the government impose on the rights of a private citizen sucks even more.



So where does justice come in to play and who delivers it?


Who says the world is just? At my current job we had an employee of a 'protected' class, who slept on the job and was caught several times doing this by several levels of management. However, he was not fired. Is that justice?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:45:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
Well, I feel offended when I see a "no guns" sign on the front door of stores.

If that is legal and/or ethical, then so is a sign saying "no _______"


Might as well say "No freedom loving conservative Americans" is the way I see those signs.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:45:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
I would agree to a sign saying "No illegals allowed" and then administer a few American quiz questions to them, if they can't answer then turn them away. If you are an American and can't answer the questions then go learn about your country and come back later. The questions would change every day BTW.


You've got it all figured out!

Now go to SAMS, buy a shitload of frozen chimichangs, a fry daddy, and you're in business!
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:48:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:


Heres my thoughts on your proposed scenario. Discrimination for stupid reasons sucks. Having the government impose on the rights of a private citizen sucks even more.



So where does justice come in to play and who delivers it?


Wheres the injustice thats going on? Murdering, assaulting, beating, maiming and so forth are injustices. Refusal of an exchange of goods and services isn't.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:52:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Horrible business sense at best


Depends where you are an which group you are discriminating against. I would imagine that it could actually be a good business model in some cases.


There are quite a few restaurants/street vendors in southern florida that refused service to me due to my lack of hispanic heritage. I didn't burn them down, call the police or al sharpton and they're still doing business status quo last I heard.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:59:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Horrible business sense at best


Depends where you are an which group you are discriminating against. I would imagine that it could actually be a good business model in some cases.


I'm kind of in agreement with KUpolo

When I was stationed in Japan, I tried to go into a local bar and was met at the door by an employee repeating "No Gaijin!, No Gaijin!". Now, initially it kind of pissed me off, but after thinking about it for awhile....

I think what he meant to say was "No young Marines, you guys come in here and get hammered, then wreck the place and try to screw everything in sight, and it bothers most of my regular customers"

So, in some circumstances, I can understand the discrimination.

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:07:02 PM EST
I was just talking to a buddy this morning who owns a small business, a moving company. He basically said he won't schedule a move if he knows it's a black person calling. I was a little surprised, so he kind of went into the reason. Who knows...
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:14:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By jnojr:
A business puts up a sign refusing admittance to some protected class... blacks, gays, women, Muslims, disabled, etc.

What do you think?


What if the business was religion based ,and they were refusing admittance to
people of other religions ?

To keep this fair ,3 examples :


1.White Christian business selling Bibles and other religious materials
of their fauith .

Sign out front : No Moslems allowed .


2 .Moslim religious business,selling religious items.

Sign out front : No Jews or bacon eating Christians !

3.Jewish business selling religious items.

Sign out front :
No muslims .EVER .
No backpacks allowed .



I consider religion and race seperate in this issue .

Does arfcom ?


Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:17:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By cobrasks:

Originally Posted By jnojr:
A business puts up a sign refusing admittance to some protected class... blacks, gays, women, Muslims, disabled, etc.

What do you think?


What if the business was religion based ,and they were refusing admittance to
people of other religions ?

To keep this fair ,3 examples :


1.White Christian business selling Bibles and other religious materials
of their fauith .

Sign out front : No Moslems allowed .


2 .Moslim religious business,selling religious items.

Sign out front : No Jews or bacon eating Christians !

3.Jewish business selling religious items.

Sign out front :
No muslims .EVER .
No backpacks allowed .



I consider religion and race seperate in this issue .

Does arfcom ?




Personally, I think it's asinine. But ideologically, I tend to be a "your property/business/home, your rules" guy.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:17:42 PM EST
Not right, not legal. The Civil rights Act of 1964 protects against this for a reason. If that business is using government services like roads to get to the store etc etc, that all people pay taxes on then they have no right to exclude people.
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