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Posted: 8/26/2004 11:46:10 AM EST
link to original thread

"There is apparently no limit to the insanity in California. For the umpteenth time in the long and sordid tale of AB-50, the California Assembly voted on the bill and the bill lost by a 35-36 margin.


That was voting by the rules.


But the rules seem to matter very little in Sacramento. Shortly after voting to send the fifty caliber ban to a well-deserved grave, California Democrats called for a "re-vote" and we watched as a handful of Democrats pressed the vote button at their own desk, then calmly walked to the empty desk of another member of the Assembly and voted a second time. This, we learn, is what California Legislators call "Ghost Voting." Nobody there is shocked because "they do it all the time."


Ah, I see...


As an American whose last "do over" was somewhere around the third grade, I was stunned.


What they casually call "ghost voting" seems to me like a complete abrogation of the whole voting concept. So who gets two votes? Does anybody get three? What can California residents hope for when their fundamental system of government has been reduced to a series of childish games?

Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:52:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:53:59 AM EST
What are you going to do about it?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:55:41 AM EST
Time to call up Caterpillar!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:56:43 AM EST
Vote from the rooftops?

Would make for more ghosts.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:56:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:57:27 AM EST
...Right. I'm going to call for a mass evacuation of all conservatives from Cali, and then ceding the state to Mexico.

Seriously, there's jobs for anything everywhere, and for the price of an average house in Cali, you can buy a mansion just about anywhere else.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:58:25 AM EST
sonofabitch. I didn't plan on spending my retirement in Sacramento, by it's damned time somebody sits in the gallery there with a video camera and records these traitorous bastards every minute thier lips are moving.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:59:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
Perhaps this requires judicial review? Not that alot of judges would be in favor of 50 cals, but the principle of one legislator casting a vote for another is completely abhorrent and seems a violation of parliamentary procedures to shock the conscience. There has to be a constitutional issue here. I guess it really isn't who's vote that counts in california, just who counts the votes. For this reason I would petition Gov. Schwarzennegar directly for a veto based solely on the bases of cheating in the voting process.



Hey, sounds like it is starting to dawn on some of you LEO types who say "if you don't like the law, change it". Kinda hard when you have the votes, but the other side uses rampant fraud to win the day.

I bet any vocal critics of the law, once it's signed into effect, are going to shortly find themselves on the receiving end of "conspiracy" charges and no-knock raids.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:13:28 PM EST
Maybe the assembly-people who originally voted should complain? I'd be a tad pissed off if someone changed my vote.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:14:24 PM EST
A pox on the "ghost voters", and their families.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:16:47 PM EST
Seems simple enough to me. Take a head count. Take a vote. If vote count > head count, out the window it goes. Keep rehashing it until they are the same or vote count is less (i.e. someone abstains). Video would be nice too. What a screwed up state.


Woody
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:23:35 PM EST

Dear Governor Schwarzenegger:
I am writing to you this letter on the subject of the California State Legislature’s recent vote on bill AB 50, which reads, in part, “This bill would include tracking the possession and ownership of .50 BMG rifles in the database, as specified,” (emphasis added). Certainly, whether or not you sign this bill, as it has been passed, is hardly my concern as a Virginia resident, assuming that it is passed via legal methods. Whether or not you sign the bill, given the way it has been passed, will set a legal precedent that is the concern of this entire nation.
The method by which this was voted into office (as reported to me) is a practice called “ghost-voting.” The bill had failed for the first vote, so the Democratic Assemblymen called for a recount, which is a perfectly legitimate practice. However, once they had voted at their seat, they got up, went over to the seat of an Assemblyman who was absent, and voted again under the name of the absentee (this information is relayed from the Fifty Caliber Institute, which has been present at all sessions for news about bill AB 50, and their article may be seen at http://www.fiftycal.org/. I feel, at the moment, that I should state that I am not affiliated with the Fifty Caliber Institute, nor with any of their sponsors or other such organizations, besides the National Rifle Association). To allow a bill passed by such a voting method is to allow a serious miscarriage of justice. If you sign this bill, your State will be shown to no longer operate on the great democratic principle of One Representative, One Vote.
I realize that you have different views on the Second Amendment than many Republicans, and I certainly respect that, and were this bill passed in any other way, I would not be writing to you about it. You cannot, however, sign this bill the way it has been passed and still pretend to be a just Governor. You cannot possibly think that this is an ethical thing to do. Governor, if you sign this bill, I fear for the future of the State of California, and for our great nation.



To be sent to Governor Schwarzenegger ASAP. I urge you to write similar letters and send them.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:27:27 PM EST
this just sucks.......... How the hell can they get hell can they do that........ This has too be Reviewed by the courts. and everyone of them damn crooks should loose his job and and his retiremnet and pension, along with a public apology about what a dirty bastard he is
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:38:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:47:23 PM EST
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1200314/posts


"GHOST VOTES" OUTLAW .50 CALIBERS IN CALIFORNIA!
E-MAIL | 08-26-04 | President, Fifty Caliber Institute

Posted on 08/26/2004 3:35:08 PM CDT by TexasCowboy

"There is apparently no limit to the insanity in California. For the umpteenth time in the long and sordid tale of AB-50, the California
Assembly voted on the bill and the bill lost by a 35-36 margin.

That was voting by the rules.

But the rules seem to matter very little in Sacramento. Shortly after voting to send the fifty caliber ban to a well-deserved grave,
California Democrats called for a "re-vote" and we watched as a handful of Democrats pressed the vote button at their own desk,
then calmly walked to the empty desk of another member of the Assembly and voted a second time. This, we learn, is what
California Legislators call "Ghost Voting." Nobody there is shocked because "they do it all the time."

Ah, I see...

As an American whose last "do over" was somewhere around the third grade, I was stunned.

What they casually call "ghost voting" seems to me like a complete abrogation of the whole voting concept. So who gets two votes?
Does anybody get three? What can California residents hope for when their fundamental system of government has been reduced
to a series of childish games?

These questions will boggle the rational mind until Californians decide to trust the reins of government to those who believe in silly,
outdated ideas like rules and procedure, or "one equal vote for all." That matter is beyond our hands. What is before us is the last
step on AB-50’s road to becoming the greatest farce put into state law.

We are turning our attention to the new Governor of California, called to office by Californians sick of that very “status quo” and
"politics as usual" mindset. This will be a chance for Governor Schwarzenegger to step up to the plate and put the fiscal needs of
every tax-paying citizen ahead of backroom deals and wink-wink do-overs. We know he is strong, sharp and savvy. Let's see if he is
also faster than AB-50's ghost runner on third base.

If you have been waiting for the "right moment" to take action, this is your last chance.

If you have fought tirelessly to defend your rights in California, it's gut-check time.

Please contact the office of Governor Schwarzenegger by email, fax or by phone and urge him NOT TO SIGN AB-50.

For the record:
The Governor announced his "10 Point Plan" for California's economic recovery.
In that plan he states critical elements to be (using his numbers):

Point 2: Freeze spending and launch an audit of the state budget.
Yet the Assembly passed a new budget item (AB-50) which contains a multi-million dollar "PR campaign" to warn citizens of
nonexistent "dangers" that have never occurred.

Point 3: Call the Assembly into special session to make further spending cuts and reduce the budget imbalance. Cuts are expected
to hit the elderly, children, education, highways, prisons and transit. In spite of this, the Assembly passed a multi-million dollar bill to
outlaw a rifle that has never been used in a crime in the state.

THIS IS IT FOLKS, we are doing all we can but much is up to YOU.

Contact the Governor TODAY and urge him NOT TO SIGN AB-50.

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633

To send an Electronic Mail:
http://www.govmail.ca.gov
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:51:03 PM EST
35 to 36

I'm no expert But I am damn sure that the assembly in Cali probably has more then 71 members.

Its Likely that they just went and voted for thier colleagues, Cali probably doesnt explicitly say you have to be in attendence to vote... Just like Chicago doesnt explicitly state you have to be alive to vote.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:01:16 PM EST
So if what this guy says is true, Who the hell is fialing the lawsuit?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:09:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:17:30 PM EST


This sht does not happen in the South.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:40:00 PM EST
Call the Governor's office...do it now.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:00:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Call the Governor's office...do it now.


Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:02:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
Perhaps this requires judicial review? Not that alot of judges would be in favor of 50 cals, but the principle of one legislator casting a vote for another is completely abhorrent and seems a violation of parliamentary procedures to shock the conscience. There has to be a constitutional issue here. I guess it really isn't who's vote that counts in california, just who counts the votes. For this reason I would petition Gov. Schwarzennegar directly for a veto based solely on the bases of cheating in the voting process.




THEN PETITION HIM RIGHT F'ING NOW!

I already called his office today.

If you identify yourself as a Cop I bet they'd be even more glad to listen to you...
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:09:37 PM EST
i thank god everyday that i don't live in california...
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:10:57 PM EST
So they are baned?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:15:09 PM EST
shit only voted twice??? come to chicago. vote early vote often
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:19:19 PM EST
So, are congressional heads on pikes yet?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:29:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By sick:
So they are baned?



Bill is on its way to Arnold's desk. It's up to him to sign it or not.

From what I've been reading if signed into law there will be a cut off date for purchases (someone mentioned Jan1) followed by all needing to be registered by another cut off date (April1 was mentioned).

The bill will apparently make them just like "assault weapons" owned under SB23. No sales to anyone within the state after the cut off, no willing your rilfle to your kids or anyone else for that matter that lives in California. The only way that a rifle can be "disposed" of is to turn it into the State, sell it out of state or take it with you when you move.

Again, that's just from my reading of the threads, I haven't had the stomach to read the fucking bill as passed.

Arnold's done some real good for this state after the Democraps and Grayout Davis nearly ran it into the ground. I hope he has the good sense as a businessman to realize that most of the people who own and shoot 50's are not your average middle-class wage slave but people with education, money and standing in their communities. The last thing I heard was the typical demographic for a 50 owner was college educated professional (Doctor, Lawyer, business owner), older and $75,000+ income.

These are NOT the kind of people you want pissed at you as a State Governor!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:56:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Cali probably doesnt explicitly say you have to be in attendence to vote... Just like Chicago doesnt explicitly state you have to be alive to vote.



Only dead dummycraps can vote. Dead Republicans are just . . . . dead.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:41:52 PM EST
Great, if they give you two months to buy a .50, More fifties will be sold than in 10 years without the legislative threat.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:38:50 PM EST
Anybody got a list of the name(s) of the bastage(s) that actually walked to another desk and cast more than one vote?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:40:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 5:41:01 PM EST by CRC]
I thought CA assault weapons could be inherited?
Am I wrong??

CRC
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:43:33 PM EST
You are wrong. When you die either have it seen to that they leave the state or legally they have to be turned in...which either means destroyed before or after the barrels are shot out by the police.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:44:22 PM EST
Okay. Thanx.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:45:07 PM EST
Friggin sucks don't it?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:45:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:46:03 PM EST
He who makes the rules...wins.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:46:37 PM EST
Lol...man you guys live in one messed up state!

It's kinda like Disney, it's fun to visit but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:48:23 PM EST
They cannot be inherited by residents of the PRK, unless they were already on the registration in 2000. If the registered owner dies, the choices are:


I don't get it. So AWs can be inherited because they were all registered in 1989 and 1999, before 2000?

Or only Roberti Roos guns can be inherited??

CRC
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:05:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Observer:
Lol...man you guys live in one messed up state!

It's kinda like Disney, it's fun to visit but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.



Do us inmates a favor...don't visit. Not because I don't think I'd like you, far from it, but because paying for things like hotel rooms and rental cars has tourist taxes associated with it. Those tourist taxes help perpetuate this prison. There are many nice places to visit besides CA.

Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër? See the løveli lakes, the Wøndërful telephøne system, and mäni interesting furry animals, including the majestic møøse.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:06:58 PM EST
Good Ole' KALI



Cripes people, isn't it time to leave yet?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:11:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 6:15:43 PM EST by Mauser101]
Working on it buddy. Would very much like to be out of here this time next year. Need to find a good job elsewhere and a friendly state.

Considering Colorado, I like Colorado Springs a lot. The prospect of being near NORAD when nukes start going off concerns me though.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:25:40 PM EST
The votes haven't been updated yet, maybe tomorrow.

www.leginfo.ca.gov/bilinfo.html
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:32:12 PM EST
Ghost voting is not voting twice. It's more of an intent by a lawmaker to not be present during voting but make it appear like he was there. In the case of the California voting mentioned I would wager the absent lawmakers left instructions for others on how they wanted to vote. They had a big stink about this practice in Pennsylvania back last March or April. Personally, I think if they are going to be representing the people the least they could do is have their sorry asses there.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:46:08 PM EST
Fuckin democrats Fuck I hate those assholes
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 8:17:34 PM EST
Here's the link to the actual bill. Makes you wonder where this country is heading.

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/ab_0001-0050/ab_50_cfa_20040621_152531_sen_comm.html
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:40:30 PM EST
fucking democraps are the fuckers that'll come over to your house for dinner and then fuck your sister that night on the couch.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:08:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By m98codered:
fucking democraps are the fuckers that'll come over to your house for dinner and then fuck your sister that night on the couch.


I presume half the guys here would do just that, buddy.

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:01:00 AM EST
The catastrophic failure in judgment is California bill AB50, authored by Paul Koretz of the Hollywood area. In his bill, Mr. Koretz expressed a sky-is-falling need to ban .50 caliber target rifles by including them in the ever-changing definition of "assault weapon." The strident urgency driving this bill was Mr. Koretz' claims that these bolt-action rifles are a terrorist superweapon which have the ability to shoot planes out of the sky, punch holes through tanks, and kill people in armored limousines from four miles away.

Mr. Koretz should send his report to the Pentagon. Apparently the greatest assembly of military minds and experience on earth has universally overlooked the earth-shattering power of the humble target rifle. Perhaps they missed "superweapon day" in basic training. The more likely answer is that Assemblyman Koretz took on an ultra-liberal cause that most Democrats would have been ashamed to author, having no real idea what he was doing. During questioning on the floor of the committee, Koretz admitted, "I don't understand much of this gun stuff, I just think they are bad." Well, Koretz was half-right... he clearly doesn’t understand gun stuff.

The facts he revealed told a very different story.

How many years have .50 caliber rifles been in civilian hands? Over 80 years.

In that time, how many people in America have been killed by these rifles? Zero.

How many aircraft have been shot, on the ground or in the air? Zero.

How many limousines have been shot through? Zero.

How many oil refineries have been blown up? Zero.


The farce became even more apparent when La Suer asked the LAPD officer what weapons he had seen used in violent crimes. The answer ranged from handguns to knives, tools and the ever-popular "blunt objects." La Suer asked if all of these items used to commit murder were presently banned, to which the officer answered no. "Do you think they should be banned?" La Suer asked calmly, and again the officer firmly answered no. It was then that La Suer cut to the chase. "Well then explain to me Officer, how is it that you don't want to ban things that have killed people, yet you want to ban something that you admit has never killed anyone and has never been used in any sort of crime?" Speechless, the officer mumbled and backed away from the microphone.

The small handful of supporters for AB50 included the usual suspects; the Violence Policy Center, which survives by scaring unwitting citizens into making donations, as well as their ill-disguised offshoot, the Trauma Center. There was a representative of the Brady organization, a member of the Million Mom March and a handful of others. Their entire presentation lasted a few short minutes. This came as no great surprise -- armed with no facts and only a handful of tall tales, even hardcore fanatics can only tap dance for so long.

In contrast, the line of opponents to AB50 filled the front table, ran down the length of the room and out into the hall. They ranged from industry representatives to shooting enthusiasts to military memorabilia collectors. Mr. Bill Ritchie, owner of EDM Arms, spoke passionately as the only rifle manufacturer left in the state of California. He explained that he could be forced to relocate if the bill became law. He spoke of the employees who would lose jobs, of the tens of thousands of tax dollars the state would lose, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of dollars annually funneled to California machine shops, case manufacturers and other suppliers who rely on EDM's business. But those were facts that went to the economy; those facts meant jobs and revenue. The Democrats on the Public Safety Committee made it all too clear that financial issues were not their concern. They were on a political agenda.

Ritchie was followed by Ronnie Barrett, President of Barrett Firearms, Inc., who elaborated on the critical role that the civilian firearm industry plays in developing technologies that are vital to the military. He demonstrated with clear evidence that several of the characterizations regarding the fifty-caliber rifle were based on exotic military-grade ammunition that has never been available to civilian marksman. By this point, Committee Chairman Mark Leno was beginning to sweat. The overwhelming evidence against the bill was threatening to erode the party-line support that everyone expected. While many politicians don't mind selling out, few prefer to look like imbeciles on public television. As the hearing rolled on and on, core supporters of the bill were increasingly looking like the next rendition of the Three Stooges.



The only Democrat who appeared to grasp the gravity of AB50 was Rudy Bermudez, who focused not on the ban of target rifles but the accompanying ban on any form of .50 caliber ammunition. "I have a .50 cal round on my mantle," he explained, "given to me at the funeral of a friend killed in Viet Nam. By my reading of this bill, having that round is a crime." A befuddled Koretz blustered that this was not his intention, but the wording was undeniable. The bill would treat possession of each round of .50 cal ammunition as a separate crime, even if you didn't own a .50 cal rifle. One can only imagine the scores of pointless arrests that would follow passage of AB50. Californians wrongly made into criminals overnight could only hope that the criminal justice system would go bankrupt completely before they were hauled into court.


At the end of the day, partisan politics once again proved stronger than right or reason. Down the line the five Democrats on the committee cast their obligatory yes votes and AB50 moved one step closer to becoming law in California. Even staunch liberals in attendance were stunned. One woman leaving the proceeding stated, "I'm not a big fan of guns but right now I'm ashamed to say those people are from my party. What are they thinking?"

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