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Posted: 3/6/2002 5:30:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2002 4:53:22 PM EST by Corey]
EDITED 3/12/02, 8:47 p.m. CST, to reflect the current status of the bill. It's dead and will need to be reintroduced in the next session which begins in January 2003. See comments starting on p. 3/4. [b]EDITED 3/11/02 to change title to reflect current status of the PPA bill. See page 2 for update! PPA passes Senate Judiciary Committee by 4/1 vote, including 2 Dem's!! We will see if it gets to the floor of the Senate tomorrow! The only thing that can stop legal concealed carry in WI is parlimentiary procedure by the Democratic Senate leaders.[/b] This is a continuation of the following thread: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=96639[/url]
Senator Robert Wirch is the "swing vote" on the senate judiciary committee for the concealed carry bill. He has often voted pro-gun in the past, but is not letting his position on concealed carry be known. If Senator Wirch votes against the bill in committee, he will have killed it for this year. So, if you have not written Senator Wirch before, do so now. If you've written him before, do it again. And call his office as well. Politely let him know that voting against this bill will cost him your vote when he's up for re-election. To find out if you're in Wirch's district, go to [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/wamltest[/url] and enter your street address and zip code. And please forward this alert to anyone you think might be in Wirch's district. We've come too far to let just one legislator kill this bill. Thanks, The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association [url]http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com[/url]
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We need to apply pressure to Senator Wirch. I hope he's not playing his cards close because he buckled in under Senator Chvala's pressure. I sent Dick Baker an email asking him about efforts to force the PPA to the Senate floor by majority vote. But right now Senatory Wirch is the key to whether this bill even makes it out of committee. See my previous thread for what Wirch's office said to me today. Post any updates here. My weekend plans changed so I might be able to make it to Chippewa Falls for the public hearing this Saturday from 1:30-2:30 p.m. Professor John Lott will be testifying in support of the PPA. EDITED to fix code and add that we will know one way or the other what happens here as the legislative session ends next Thursday, March 14, 2002.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 5:38:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/6/2002 6:07:15 PM EST by 9divdoc]
[url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/waml/[/url] The other link 404's for me...this might work.. To find out who your State Senator is Senator Wirch [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen22/sen22.html[/url] Sen Wirch & Staff Email addys Senate District 22 Sen. Robert Wirch [email]Sen.Wirch@legis.state.wi.us[/email] Staff: Peter Andersen [email]Peter.Andersen@legis.state.wi.us[/email] Pat Erickson [email]Pat.Erickson@legis.state.wi.us[/email] Carol Fischer [email]Carol.Fischer@legis.state.wi.us[/email] Amber Meyer [email]Amber.Meyer@legis.state.wi.us[/email] Rachel Roller [email]Rachel.Roller@legis.state.wi.us[/email] You can also leaves messages for your rep on the toll-free legislative [red][b]HOTLINE[/red][/b] [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/agencies/Hotline.html[/url]
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 5:40:47 PM EST
Thanks doc! I was just trying to find a way around that same problem.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 5:52:54 PM EST
Strange state over there, you don't have the death penalty and you can pack heat. I think I'll stay away from there, doesn't sound very safe. Corey, good luck in lobbing your politicans. Isn't it even stranger that we must be granted a permit from government to exercise a right ?
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 5:54:33 PM EST
I stand corrected, you CAN'T pack heat. Too many beers.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 6:08:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 6:35:03 PM EST
Anyone else from WI out there tonight? Otherwise Muad, Dolo and I will pick it up tomorrow. I'll email them with the new link.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 2:56:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 2:57:16 AM EST by Muad_Dib]
I'll email Senator Wirch today and let him know that I'm aware that he is the swing vote, and urge him to vote in favor because my Senator refuses to represent my opinion. We're about 1 week away from knowing if this goes through, right?
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 4:43:37 AM EST
I'm putting huge amounts of pressure on the two people I work with that I know live in Kenosha. I had one guy actually approach Senator Wirch and ask him how he stood on concealed carry (after a bunch of BS, Wirch gave him 2 thumbs down and said it doesn't have a chance). Unfortunately, their not very hot about carrying concealed themselves at the moment. But I do have them contacting their friends and relatives down in District 22 to see if I can get them to contact me. When they do, I'm going to offer them free training, free range time, free use of my hardware, and free assistance in getting licensed. Wirch has got to wake up.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 4:43:45 AM EST
Here's what I posted on the original thread about phone calls I made 3/6/02. Muad and I have the same senator, Fred Risser, who won't even consider our input. I wish we could vote him out, but he's so entrenched in Madison politics, it's not realistic to think anyone can challenge him. Heck, I think they've named parks or streets after him he's been around so long. Hopefully he won't be here much longer.
As you can see, I've been working on this all lunch hour. I called these senators offices and got the following response: [i]Senator Fred Risser, 608-266-1627:[/i] When asked about the Senator's position, I was told that he does not support the PPA. I asked why and was told “He thinks it is bad public policy.” I asked if he has looked at the statistics from the 33 other states that prove concealed carry work and was told that the aide was “sure he had some of that in his folder.” She said that his position is not open for discussion and that he will not consider supporting it. I was very disappointed at the lack of a willingness to consider my opinion as well as the “bad public policy” position. [i]Senator Robert Wirch, 608-267-8979, the “swing vote” in the Senate Judiciary Committee:[/i] The person answering the phone put me through to Peter. I said that although I did’t live in the Senator’s district, I was calling due to his position on the Judiciary Committee. I asked what Sen. Wirch’s position was on the PPA and was told he’s “undecided.” Peter wasn’t going to offer a lean one way or the other. I asked if he would be at the Chippewa Falls hearing for Professor John Lott’s testimony. I had to explain to Peter Prof. Lott’s significance to this issue. Peter said that though Sen. Wirch would not be at the hearing, he would get a copy of Prof. Lott’s testimony. I urged him to convey my support of the PPA and asked that the senator support it as well. [i]Senator Gary George, 608-266-2500, head of the Judiciary Committee:[/i] I starting by asking the aide to express my thanks to the Senator for holding a public hearing on the PPA as it deserved open debate and consideration. When asked about Sen. George’s position on the PPA, I was told that the senator does not make public his position on bills (I doubt the consistency which this policy is applied…) until he actually votes on the issue. I asked that the senator remain open to supporting the PPA and in fact urged him to do so. I also asked that the senator support moving the PPA to a vote on the floor of the senate. In closing, I again expressed my thanks to the senator for the public hearing. Like Senator Gundersen said yesterday, being nice is the best way to win supporters. I urge all WI residents to call Senator George and Senator Wirch -- they represent all of us on the Judiciary Committee, and should give our opinions consideration.
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Call them and make sure you ask that your name and position is "logged" (that's the terminology one aide used) and passed on to the senators.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 4:45:09 AM EST
cont'd Muad is correct -- we'll know what happens by next Thursday, 3/14/02, when this legislative session closes. I expect we might even know Monday or Tuesday if this thing is going to get out of committee. I'm not sure, based on a recent email from Dick Baker, if we're going to be able to get the PPA out of committee by a bypass vote. That's much more difficult, he said. I think right now we need to work on Sen. Wirch and thank Sen. George for his willingness to give this a public hearing. Sen. George may also be inclined to let this come to the Senate floor for a vote, though I don't know if he's for or against. Anyone got any good news?
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:41:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By Corey: Anyone got any good news?
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Bob Wirch comes up for re-election in 2004. That's sort of good news.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:56:27 AM EST
I forgot to mention - we made yesterday's Journal-Sentinel! There was a photo somewhere in the middle of the metro section of Zien giving his speech - you can (somewhat) clearly make out the images of Corey, Muad Dib, and me. Above the photo is the title "CAPITOL CROWD FOR GUN LAW", and the text below the photo reads: "State Sen. David Zien (R-Eau Claire) addresses a lunchtime rally at the state Capitol to gain support for Assembly Bill 357, which would allow Wisconsin residents to carry concealed weapons under certain circumstances. More than 250 supporters of the bill came to the Capitol steps to hear Zien." If I can find a way to scan it cleanly, I'll try and post it here.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 7:22:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 10:24:24 AM EST
Thanks Dolo! Now let's hope that the AR15.com Photoshop Army doesn't figure out where we three are in it!! [;)] BTT -- anyone else made any phone calls today? I'm considering going to the hearing on Saturday. It'll depend on what I have going on at home.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 11:08:59 AM EST
I just got an e-mail from Sen. Zien. The gist of it is that the biggest obstacle for concealed carry getting put to a vote on the floor is the Judiciary Committee. They're having a public hearing this Saturday in Chippewa Falls AND THE JOHN LOTT IS GOING TO TESTIFY! Direstions can be found here: [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen23/news/[/url] [b]It must pass committee!!![/b] Everyone reading this please get your friends and families to crank out a quick e-mail to everyone on the committee! The Wisconsin State Senate Judiciary Committee consists of - Gary George (D- Milwaukee) Sen.George@legis.state.wi.us I sent Gary a letter thanking him for taking the time to get out and hear the people. He's officially "undecided" but I have some hope for him. Fred Risser (D- Madison Sen.Risser@legis.state.wi.us A lost cause. E-mail him anyway. Robert Wirch (D- Kenosha) Sen.Wirch@legis.state.wi.us Officially "undecided" but I have information that he has ZERO intentions of letting SB-357 pass. If you have friends in his district THEY MUST call or e-mail him! Joanne Huelsman (R- Waukesha) Sen.Huelsman@legis.state.wi.us A friend - send her an e-mail thanking her for standing up for a woman's right to self-defense. Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) Sen.Fitzgerald@legis.state.wi.us A friend - be sure to thank him. Also, Sen Mark Meyer (D- La Crosse) sen.meyer@legis.state.wi.us -has expressed his full support of the bill. Sen. Zien asks everyone to be sure to thank him! That's it for now!
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 11:10:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 11:20:45 AM EST by Corey]
The following is an email alert from Senator Dave Zien that was forwarded by Dick Baker:
The Senate Judiciary Committe, chaired by Senator Gary George (D-Milwaukee), will hold a hearing on concealed carry (AB675 & SB357) this Saturday, March 9th, 1:30 to 2:30 PM, at the Eagles Club, 2588 Hwy 53, Chippewa Falls. Yale Professor John R. Lott Jr., author of the landmark book "More Guns, Less Crime," will be at the hearing as the foremost expert on concealed carry laws. Check our website for maps/directions to the hearing: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen23/news/ Many of you may have heard the media, your Sheriff or police chief report that they, and the law enforcement community, oppose concealed carry. This is completely false! The 2 largest law enforcement organizations in the country support concealed carry (The Law Enforcement Alliance of America and the WI Fraternal Order of Police). In fact, there were uniformed POLICE CHIEFS at our rally at the capitol on March 5 in support of the bill!! Our website has the actual documents from LEAA and FOP proving this; see for yourself. Just today, Appleton Police Chief Richard Myers (Richard.Myers@appleton.org) suggested to the State Senate that states with concealed carry laws have become "high crime" areas as a result of law-abiding citizens obtaining permits to carry. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support his claim, but rather the evidence consistently proves that when law-abiding citizens are allowed to carry, violent crime in those states has gone down. Law-abiding citizens don't suddenly become criminals and commit rampant crime when allowed the right of self-defense by the passage of a concealed carry law!! Chief Myers' email to the State Senate is available upon request. The Assembly has already passed AB675, and it must now pass the Senate before regular session ends March 14. First it must pass the Judiciary committee made up of Senators Gary George, Fred Risser, Robert Wirch, Joanne Huelsman, and Scott Fitzgerald. [i]If we can get the bill to a vote on the Senate floor, we stand a VERY good chance of a majority bi-partisan vote as Senator Mark Meyer (D-LaCrosse) has expressed his full support of the bill! But, even with Senator Meyer's support, YOU NEED TO CALL OR WRITE YOUR SENATOR to ensure his or her vote, Republican or Democrat.[/i] Please pass this message along to everyone you know to support concealed carry. Remember, Wisconsin is just 1 of 6 states that outlaws its law-abiding citizens from the right to protect themselves. ps. Senator Mark Meyer (D-LaCrosse) has expressed his full support of the bill and has offered to speak with any sporting groups in the Coulee region that wishes to hear the merits of concealed carry. Call his office at 800-385-3385 or email sen.meyer@legis.state.wi.us to schedule a speaking engagement or to thank Senator Meyer for his support. -Senator Dave Zien
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Italics added. EDITED to add that on Senator Zien's webpage there's the letter from the Fraternal Order of Police to WI legislators supporting the PPA. I tried to post it here but couldn't figure out how to capture the .pdf text (Adobe reader). Anyone know how to do that?
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 11:38:01 AM EST
Senator Zien's webpage on the PPA. [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen23/news/ppa1.htm[/url] Thanks for posting the pic Dolomite.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 11:40:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 11:51:04 AM EST by Dolomite]
(A letter from WI FOP taken from Sen. Zien's web page) March 1, 2002 Dear Wisconsin Legislator, My name is Nick Segina, I am the representative and spokesperson for the Wisconsin Fraternal Order of Police. The Fraternal Order of Police is the largest law enforcement organization in the country. We have a membership of over 300,000. We are a fraternal organization of police officers for police officers. I am writing to you because of concerns regarding Wisconsin's proposed personal protection act (concealed carry law). As our membership interacts with other members from across the country, we may have a better understanding of the ramifications if this bill becomes law than those less informed. We, as an organization in Wisconsin, have discussed this bill and have elected to support it. The bill clearly defines issues needing attention in Wisconsin. I would like you to make note that when the AIDS virus first appeared there was a panic among the citizens and law enforcement as to how to interact with those who were positive. You may have watched “cop” shows that depicted scenes of crime areas being cordoned off, fire/police personnel in Hazmat suits responding for decontamination procedures, and a general status of alarm all because of police contact with someone who was HIV positive. We have since learned how overboard those actions were. Now, we use what is termed “Universal Precautions.” We, as law enforcement officers, treat everyone as if they are HIV positive. We have learned to protect ourselves. The same holds true for someone carrying a concealed weapon. We consider EVERYONE armed and dangerous. It would be foolish on our part not to. In any instance that we interact with anyone in the public, (as with an HIV individual) we must protect ourselves and be aware of anything that could cause harm to the public or us. Our training has made these interactions appear normal and routine to the casual onlooker, but they are not. They are specific in design, nature, movement, placement, communication and observation. All of this takes place every time a police officer has any contact with anyone. It is what helps keep us safe, and able to return to our families after work. Citizens with the proper background clearance, training, certification and being armed have statistically posed little or no risk to any law enforcement officer. The ones who have no respect for the law are the ones we worry about, and they do not waste their time applying for permits and as such, laws mean nothing to them. Just look in our prisons and jails; do you see many law-abiding citizens there? (cont)
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 11:46:05 AM EST
(cont) We are asking you to please take the time to thoroughly review all the information available to you, set your emotions aside, and look at the bigger picture. There are all kinds of stories out there both for and against this bill. Experience in other states has demonstrated that concealed carry is a deterrent to crime. If just one law-abiding citizen was armed during the tragic robbery, maybe some or all of Representative Shilling's family might have survived. As in Milwaukee and elsewhere the armed thugs prey on those who are not able to defend themselves. “Why not hit an easy mark… we do not want to have to work for the money… that would mean being more careful and hesitant for worry about being overcome or caught” just to paraphrase those who brag about doing those assaults. Police officers can not be everywhere and with the cut backs in the future for Wisconsin… the “city folk” may have a 20 to 30 minute response time like those in the “country” already are used to. It has been proven that concealed carry reduces crime. Let’s do everything we can to reduce crime in Wisconsin. Please reference these two papers. Do not be alarmed by the titles, but be informed by the contents: Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/delivery.cfm/99042103.pdf?abstractid=161637 by John R. Lott Jr., Yale Law School and William M. Landes University of Chicago Law School National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) and Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns www.journals.uchicago.edu/JLS/lott.pdfby John R. Lott Jr. and David B Mustard. If you would like more information on the Fraternal Order of Police please check our web site at www.grandlodgefop.org or feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions. Thank you for your time and attention to this important issue. Nick Segina segina@maqs.net
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 11:57:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 12:08:37 PM EST by Corey]
Thank Dolo. I finally found you in the pic! [}:D] Sly said a couple of days ago, if this thing gets to the floor of the Senate, he thinks it passes. We've all been working very hard up til now, but must continue through next Thursday. Kind'a like golf -- the follow through can make or break the shot. We need to keep pushing! EDITED to add that Sly said he had inside information that someone who was not for/against the PPA at least thought it deserved to get to the floor of the Senate for a vote. I'm beginning to think that that person is Sen. George (who could have refused to schedule a public hearing), and not Sen. Wirch (who as I understand it will not support the PPA). Hmmmm. I think that the next 7 days will be [i]very interesting.[/i]
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 5:39:53 PM EST
I concur. I'm really optomistic about George. My buddy at work from Kenosha sent Wirch a very long e-mail stating that although he is very neutral about guns, he's read the entire bill and finds the restricitons and requirements for licensees entirely acceptable. Also, he's the head of a three-voter household. He then goes on and recounts a personal story about how one day he was walking into the Credit Union right next door to my company while a robbery was going on. He got put on the floor at gun point. After the bad guys ran out the door with the loot, it occured to him that if their get-a-way vehicle wasn't working, that they might come back into the bank and bunker down using the customers as hostages. He realized right then and there, that that was a shitty position to be in, and that he wished more than anything that there was somebody there to secure the area. Anybody, civilian or LEO - just somebody with a gun. It is such a fantastic story, I talked him into submitting it as testimony for Saturday's hearing. I'm going to e-mail it to Dick Baker and see if he'll be able to put a copy into the hands of everyone on the committee. Like you and Muad dib, I'm going to be on the edge of my seat for the next week until this thing passes.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 5:56:02 PM EST
Dolo and Muad: You gonna be at the Chippewa Falls hearing? I'm probably going to be there (follow through, right [;)] ), so if you need a ride Muad, you got a seat. I might also bring a few others. I really wish I could've hung around to meet Ken Blanchard and buy an autographed copy of his book. I will probably try to buy Prof. Lott's book tomorrow at lunch (the original, [i]More Guns, Less Crime[/i]) so I can have him sign it on Saturday. Man, I have one other important thing I'm waiting on in my life (non-gun related) that I should know about by next Friday, so I'm [i]really[/i] distracted and tense next week....
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 3:23:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Corey: Dolo and Muad: You gonna be at the Chippewa Falls hearing? I'm probably going to be there (follow through, right [;)] ), so if you need a ride Muad, you got a seat. I might also bring a few others.
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I wasn't planning on going because of the long drive and a conflicting engagement later in the day. But driving with someone hadn't occured to me for some reason. What time are you planning on leaving Madison? I might just be able to tag along.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 4:48:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2002 6:43:35 AM EST by Dolomite]
A road trip? I love road trips! Unfortunately, this is a crazy weekend for me and I can't make it. I'll be waiting on the edge of my seat to see how things went! Curiously, I was flipping through my August 2000 copy of The American Rifleman. This issue featured a special Wisconsin election section composed by the National Rifle Association's Political Victory Fund - of interest is the following State Senator ratings: District 6 (D) Gary George - Grade: F (From what I understand, Gary, who chairs the judiciary committee, was intstrumental in arranging the public hearing Saturday in Chippewa Falls) District 12 (D) [b]Roger Breske[/b] - Grade: A+ (Endorsed by the NRA. I had a chance to ask Breske what his position on SB-357 was and he said: "Unknown." I am not impressed with him) District 16 (D) Chuck Chvala - Grade: F (there's a shocker) District 22 (D) [b]Robert Wirch[/b] - Grade: A (and endorsed by the NRA-PVF!) District 26 (D) Fred Risser - Grade: F (again, no suprise) District 32 (D)Mark Meyer - Grade: A (probably'll get upgraded to an A+ now) The only ones on the above abbreviated list to get official endorsement(spelled: $$$) from the NRA is Wirch and Breske! They better get behind us. Or better yet, the NRA-PVF [i]BETTER GET THEM[/i] behind us.
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 8:59:08 AM EST
Latest email from Dick Baker:
Following tomorrow's public hearings, Senator Gary George has the option of putting the concealed carry bill up for a committee vote or not having a vote. It is becoming increasingly likely that Senator Wirch (Kenosha, southern Racine county and eastern Walworth County) may vote against the bill in commitee. (For those of you in Wirch's district, keep the pressure on). Consequently, we need to have Senator George allow a committee vote, and we also need him to vote for the bill himself. Ordinarily, a senator would not listen to anyone outside his district. However, Senator George is running for governor. So, please call his office at (608)-266-2500. Thank him for holding the public hearing, and also ask that he allow a committee vote and that he vote for the bill himself. Be as polite and thankful as you can when you call, but remind Senator George's aide that gun owners are a large voting bloc and would see his vote as a very positive incentive to vote for him as governor. Thanks, The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association
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Great research Dolo! I have a sneaking suspicion that something is going on with Senator George. Why would he have agreed to the hearing when he could have easily let the PPA sit and die from inaction? I know that he isn't in Chvala's pocket (I heard they weren't on the best of terms), so he could be doing this to for a number of reasons: to spite Chvala; he believes in the PPA; wants to increase voter base for Governor run; or simply thinks the bill deserves a chance based on all the public support. Something has got to be going on, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about going to a hearing tomorrow.... Who wants to be that Fred Risser isn't there tomorrow? I'd like to meet him and ask him about the "bad public policy" position. Like I said, this is going to be a very interesting week. I'll be even more glued to my computer than I was this week. Muad: Email me. I'll be firming up my plans in the next few hours. I wonder if John Lott will have books there for sale....
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 9:55:17 AM EST
Well now that I know Gary George is running for Guv, the picture is starting to fill in. I was thinking "maybe the guy had been in a situation himself where he would've liked to have a gun on him or something." Whatever. I called his office and sent him an e-mail (on top of writing him last week). I don't know for sure but I think the reason the NRA gave him an "F" rating back in September 2000 is due to the fact that he authored a bill to require gun locks or storage devices on all guns sold in Wisconsin back in the Spring of that year. Also, looking at the 6th Senate District map - well, that part of Milwaukee can best be described as "shit". What develops from this shall be [i]very[/i] interesting. PS: I wouldn't count on Lott traveling with his books. Some of those guys do and some don't. Good luck - I hope you get a chance to speak!
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 10:20:00 AM EST
I just found out that Chippewa Falls is about 3 hours (188 miles) from Madison. I probably could've swung 1.5 hours of drive time, but I doubt I'll go with a 6 hour round trip. [:(] Oh, and Dolo, remember that it's the brain trust from the worst areas of Milwaukee that wanted to exempt Milwaukee from the PPA. [whacko]
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 11:29:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2002 11:53:21 AM EST by Dolomite]
After finding out that Senator Gary George is running for Governor and hypothesising that may be the reason why he's holding a public hearing of the judiciary committee on concealed carry - I decided a little perusal of the WI State Elections Board was in order. I found a couple of interesting things. Running for Lieutenant Governor this Fall is Sen. Kevin Shibilski (D - Stevens Point). You may remember Shibilski's comments from that great pillar of unbiased truth, The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, ([url]http://www.jsonline.com/news/State/feb02/23770.asp[/url] ) that the concealed carry bill "sees little chance of making it to the Senate floor at a time when lawmakers are debating issues such as how to fill a $1.1 billion budget hole. 'We're fixated right now on the budget. The outlook is bleak in the short term,' Shibilski said of the bill." But that's nothing compared to what Sen. Brian Burke (D- Milwaukee) said at the top of that same article - "Three words: Dead on arrival, I can't imagine any set of circumstances under which it would pass the Senate." Well guess who's running for Attorney General? Yep. Our bud Brian Burke. I guess I can't imagine any set of circumstances under which anyone I know of would vote for him. Can you?
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 4:20:13 PM EST
Again, great research Dolo! So your theory is what? Guess I'm not following. Anti-gun Lt. Governor and anti-gun Atty. Gen. candidates. So why would someone looking to break into [i]that[/i] crowd hold a public hearing on the PPA, when they could have easily assured it's quiet demise by sweeping it under the rug? Or does the plot thicken...? [:\]
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 9:16:46 AM EST
My theory is... that I don't have a theory. I have no idea what's going on up there right now in Chippewa Falls, but Sen. George could either be using this hearing as a soapbox to express his views on guns (bad) or use it to show folks that, yes, people should be givien the tools to defend themselves(good). Sometimes a person can be so far left, parts of him start sticking out of the right. And vice versa.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 5:26:11 PM EST
Sometimes a person can be so far left, parts of him start sticking out of the right. And vice versa.
LOL! I emailed Dick to see how things went today. Do you have any feedback? From my experience at the Waukesha Assembly hearing, the legislators don't try to hide their opinions the way appellate court judges do during oral arguments. So, I'm expecting the senators questions of Prof. Lott today (how can you not ask the foremost expect questions?) will clearly signal where they stand.
Link Posted: 3/9/2002 6:30:58 PM EST
Well, I wrote my supportive letter to the editor of the local paper tonight. Kind of a new limb there for me, hope if they print it that I don't come across as a dolt.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 5:21:17 AM EST
[url]http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/mar02/26304.asp[/url] I was rubbing my eyes in disbelief - [b]CONCEALED WEAPONS BILL WINS SUPPORT[/b] - How could the Milwaukee Jentinal print something that, on the surface, could appear even remotely pro-gun? But then I started reading the article and saw that Joseph Goebbels is still doing well at his old job at 333 State Street. "Fewer than 10 of the 50 people who testified before the Senate judiciary committee opposed the measure." What is that? An indication of how many showed up for/against the bill? NO! Me and Corey were both at the Waukesha hearing and I counted exactly 5 anti-gun people (I know them all) and about 150 pro-ccw types. I'm certain the ratio at Chippewa Falls was at least 19 to 1 in favor. And this "Fewer than 10" shit - what's fewer than 10? Is it 5? 1? ZEEERRO?!?
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 6:46:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2002 6:48:07 AM EST by Dolomite]
[url]http://www.leadertelegram.com/story.asp?id=5076[/url] Another article, this one from an Eau Caire newspaper. A little more indicative of the actual make-up of the crowd. Plus it points out that the Journal-Sentinel didn't even mention John Lott was there. Its like they're afraid to print his name or something.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 6:52:04 AM EST
From WQOW(ABC), Channel 18 Eau Claire: [b]Concealed Weapons Hearing Hallie[/b] "Many people braved the roads to voice their opinions on an issue they care about.. citizens traveled from all across the state to a hearing about concealed weapons in Chippewa Falls Sunday. The senate committee on judiciary, consumer affairs, and campaign finance reform held the hearing on the personal protection act. The bill has already passed through the state assembly. It would allow citizens who fit certain criteria to carry concealed weapons. They'd have to pass a criminal background check, complete a safety course and pay a fee. The atmosphere at the hearing was tense.. but light-hearted at times as opponents and supporters of the bill spoke.. each person had 60 seconds to weigh-in on the issue." [url]http://www.wqow.com/news/display.php?id=14[/url]
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 8:58:08 AM EST
I "heard through the grapevine" that there is a lot of speculation as to what might happen with the Judiciary Committee Monday. Chvala says it is dead on arrival, yet new support is won every day. So no one really knows who stands where in the "undecided" catagory. But some feel that we're [i]very[/i] close to getting the PPA passed in the Senate. I think that the Democratic leadership is having a real hard time keeping the party together on this issue. I've been saying for a long time, that if there were ever a time to ask Democrats to counter the party leaders, it's now. They will probably have a new majority leader next year anyway.... I suspect we'll hear something tomorrow night, if not tomorrow morning.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 10:51:00 AM EST
[url]http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/mar02/26131.asp[/url] See the last letter to the editor on the page:
Democratic process thwarted by inaction I'm 39, and I thought I knew a thing or two, but I learned something new the other day. All that talk about a government "of the people, by the people, for the people" is just that: talk. Apparently, Sen. Gary George (D-Milwaukee) has decided to kill the concealed-weapons bill, which passed the state Assembly, by not even letting it come out of the Judiciary Committee for a vote by the full Senate. One can be pro-gun or anti-gun - that's not the issue here. At the heart of the matter is that the democratic process is being thwarted. Let the measure come up for a fair vote, and we'll all have to live with the outcome. A person might not like the right-to-carry law in Wisconsin, but what happens when a bill comes up that the person does support? Do people want one elected official to have the power to stop it? Anthony C. Kubek III Appleton
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Does this guy know something that we don't? What happened in C.Falls this weekend?
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 11:21:55 AM EST
Yeah. I read it. That is bizaare. It says at the bottom of the page "Appeared in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on March 10, 2002.", but at the top it says "Last Updated: March 9, 2002". So it is likely that letter could have been written as late back on the 8th. If George had come right out against the bill (like that moron Boyle did at the Waukesha hearing), I think the papers would've said something about it. So given that, and the fact that he could have sank this hearing before it even began, I'm cautiously optimistic that the Judiciary will have taken the public seriously and at least let the rest of the Senate vote on it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 10:22:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2002 10:23:38 AM EST by Muad_Dib]
Personal Protection Act ALERT! Final Push Is On! 5-Year Effort Comes Down to Tuesday! We need your voice and your ears. Democrat leaders in the Senate know they will lose if the Personal Protections Act (AB 675) comes up for a fair vote Tuesday. Everything comes down to Tuesday, March12 on the Floor of the State Senate. If we get a fair vote, the bill moves to the Governor for his signature. If they use parliamentary tricks to prevent a vote or amend the bill, we will have to start over next January. What can you do? 1) Come to the Capitol and watch the debate from the gallery. It is a citizen's right to watch his or her legislator in action. Stop by your Senator's Office and let them know you are there...watching. 2) Listen to the Senate debate LIVE over the Internet. Find the location on Dave's web page at: [url]http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen23/news/ppa1.htm[/url] or at the official Senate "In session" site: [url]http://insession/senate/[/url] Call or e-mail your Senator and let them know you will listen to the debate. 3) Tell your friends to contact/listen/attend, too. Remember to be polite but direct. Democrat Senators need to know they are responsible for the actions of their leaders and you want them to do everything in their power to advance this bill. This means not allowing the Senate to adjourn without this vote and voting to "pull" the bill out of committee for a vote. They must also oppose any amendments because they would put the bill back in the Assembly, which may not be able to take it up before they adjourn for the year. The Senate begins session at 10:00 a.m. Our effort probably won't come until after noon. Democratic Leader Chvala has tricks he may use to avoid a vote. He can adjourn the Senate before a pulling motion can be made or he can have Senate President Risser ignore the motion to pull the bill to the floor. Wednesday morning you will wake up to victory or defeat. You can make the difference.
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I'm on the edge of my seat. I wish I could go watch in person.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 12:41:28 PM EST
What happened today with the Judiciary Committee? I take it they didn't vote on the bill or voted against allowing it to come to the floor for a vote. I'm not certain what role they play, so don't profess to know the procedure. (Although, the Assembly had to use a "pulling motion" even though the CJ Committee voted for the bill....) What I can't believe is that Fred Risser can just sit there and [i]ignore[i/] a motion to bring the bill to the floor for a vote. So much for our representative democracy in action. [:(!]
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 2:56:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2002 2:58:00 PM EST by Corey]
This is [i]outstanding news!![/i] [b]PPA PASSES JUDICIARY COMMITTEE BY 4/1 VOTE!![/b]
This afternoon the senate judiciary committee passed AB675, the concealed carry bill, by a 4 to 1 vote. Voting for the bill were Senator Gary George (chairman) (D-Milwaukee), Senator Robert Wirch (D-Kenosha), Senator Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau), and Senator Joanne Huelsman (R-Waukesha). Voting against the bill was Senator Fred Risser (D-Madison). We're batting 1000 so far, but it's not over! Tomorrow is make-or-break. Here's the release from Senator Zien's office on what we should do: [Sen. Zien's email, covered in Muad's post above, deleted -- see above for the info.]
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Can anyone believe this? We just might get legal concealed carry tomorrow!! [:D] Call Sen. Risser's office tomorrow and tell him to let this bill come to the floor for a vote!! EDITED to add that this was an email alert from the WCCA and Dick Baker.
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 4:18:28 PM EST
[shock][shock][shock][shock][shock][shock][sh­ock][shock][shock][shock][shock][shock] Man, I keep getting completely flabbergasted! I skipped classes last week to go to the rally. I'm considering skipping again tomorrow to sit and watch the Senate all day. Do you think someone would wake me up when they begin talking about the PPA?
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 4:28:34 PM EST
Another email from Dave Zien:
The Senate Committee on Judiciary has reported AB 675 out of committee on a 4-1 vote, recommending passage by the full Senate. Senators George, Huelsman, Fitzgerald and Wirch voted in favor, and should be commended for their support of law-abiding gun owners. Senator Risser (D-Madison), who is also the President of the Senate, was the lone vote against it. The 4-1 vote represents a very strong endorsement of the bill, which now sits in the office of Senate Majority Leader Chuck Chvala (D-Madison) awaiting a vote by the full Senate. Senators Chvala and Risser are vocal opponents of this bill, and will dig deep into their bag of procedural tricks to try to prevent a vote by the Senate. The strong committee vote shows that we have strong support for the bill, and that it will very likely pass if it gets a fair and democratic vote. -Dave Zien
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Link Posted: 3/11/2002 4:31:37 PM EST
An NRA ILA email:
On Tuesday, March 12, the Wisconsin State Senate will consider Assembly Bill 675, the Personal Protection Act, allowing you to carry a concealed weapon for self-defense. It is critical that you contact your state senator TUESDAY MORNING at the state legislative hotline (800) 362-9472. If you don`t know who your senator is, the hotline operator can tell you or you can go to [url]http://www.capwiz.com/nra/officials/state/?lvl=L&state=wi[/url] on [url]http://www.nraila.org[/url] and search by your zip code. (If clicking on the link does not take you to the page, just copy and paste the entire link in the address bar of your browser.) The floor vote promises to be extremely close. This is our last opportunity to gain a victory for self-defense this year. Also, please try to be present for the Senate floor action in the afternoon or evening at the state capitol in Madison. For further information you can call Senator Dave Zien`s office toll-free at 888-437-9436. It is essential that your senators know that you are watching. Thank you. National Rifle Association Institute For Legislative Action
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Link Posted: 3/11/2002 4:44:35 PM EST
This brief message added solely to put this thread in my active topics. Although I'm a Florida resident, I pray for the passage of your concealed carry bill. I pray for 50 states where CC is legal. Best of luck, and I guess we'll know what happened some time tomorrow. CJ
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 4:45:50 PM EST
Hey Dolomite, I knew I would find you over here. I was over on GlockTalk posting the good news from Sen. Zien with thoughts of warning others that got his E-mail not to post the full message. I was thinking that some of his thoughts would be useful to those few none freedom lovers that are against the Personal Protection Act. I see there is no fear of that here. . . I just must be paranoid. If I can find a way down to Madison in the AM, I really want to be in the gallery of the Senate session when history is made. I just got a stupid pacemaker with my arm in a sling and can't drive for a month...........
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 4:54:25 PM EST
Over lunch hour and after my 1:15 hearing, I'll probably be at the capitol. I'll try to post any info, good or bad, ASAP! Muad and Dolo: Lemme know if you want me to call you on your cell to give you any news. In case I'm not their until 2-2:30 p.m., please call me on my cell with any updates! Whenever I'm not in court tomorrow I'll be at the capitol!
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 5:09:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2002 5:12:24 PM EST by Corey]
Dear Senator Breske: I am writing to urge you to support the Personal Protection Act (PPA) and make sure that it gets to the floor of the Senate for a fair vote tomorrow. Senators George, Wirch, Fitzgerald and Huelsman demonstrated a great deal of courage by voting for this bill in the Judiciary Committee. I believe that they saw through the inaccurate emotionally charged statements that this would turn Wisconsin into the "Wild West." By looking at the facts, and track record of similar legislation in 32 other states (in fact, WI is only one of 6 states that prohibits all law abiding citizens from carrying concealed firearms) they stood for truth, justice and allowing qualified persons to protect themselves and their families. The grassroots support that has surrounded the PPA has been tremendous. Personal stories of crime victims wishing they could have protected themselves with a concealed firearm and facts by the expert, Professor John Lott, all caused a tidal wave of support for this bill in recent weeks. Trust that, if you support this bill, you will have earned the support of the pro-gun movement. If you don't, please bear in mind that even loyal Democrats who support the PPA will feel that you have left them unable to defend themselves against random violence. Please show your support and do everything possible to get the PPA to the Senate floor for a vote. I'm confident that if the bill reaches the floor for a vote, it will pass! Please support WI citizens by supporting the PPA! Thank you, Corey
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This is the email that I just sent to Breske and his staff. EDITED to add that you should use your full name and address (I did, but deleted it because I don't have enough beer for all of you at the victory celebration!). Hope there aren't too many typos. Dolo: Can I repost your info over here? Should we keep this the "official thread" or start another?
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 6:01:26 PM EST
Officially guys, with all that's gone on today, I've upgraded my outlook on this from "conditionally pessimistic" to "cautiously optimistic". That Gary George really surprised me though - [i]whoo[/i]! But I'll tell ya, the next one I'm worried about is Sen. Roger Breske. I was [i]worried[/i] about Wirch, but glad he came around - Breske got an A+ from the NRA back in September 2000 - let's just hope he enjoys being employed by the People! I feel very fortunate to work with two very logical, but CCW neutral, individuals from Kenosha (and one that 'kinda' knows Sen. Wirch). I've gotten them both to send Wirch pro-CCW e-mails and one of them submitted written testimony (from a crime victim's POV) for last Saturday's Judiciary hearing. Corey: I think this thread can stay open as long as it's still fresh. Muad_Dib & Corey: I'm going to IM you both my cell phone number - if either of you could make it tomorrow, even for a short while, I'd appreciate a quick voice mail. I wish I could make it - I'd walk right into Peggy Rosenzweig's office and let them know "We're watching, and we're going to make sure all our friends and neighbors know how you voted." If you guys see either Jim Fendry or Don Kingsbury, please introduce yourselves and maybe ask if there's anything you can do. Deadeye-Glock: You're a true American for getting those boys over on GlockTalk stirred up. What I like about those guys is that they all have lots of friends and family and they get THEM to crank out e-mails too! AR15.com has been a great networking tool for getting the message out. Corey, Muad_Dib, or me have been keeping this topic alive for week after week - I'm on it at least 2-3 times a day. OK guys I'm out - early tomorrow morning at work I'm going to pester all my friends to send out just one more e-mail - this could be a monumental hurdle we're approaching. (don't forget to call me tomorrow if you go to the Capitol)
Link Posted: 3/11/2002 6:26:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2002 6:30:43 PM EST by Corey]
I'm posting some info from Dolo's topic ([url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=99934[/url]). I think we should keep our efforts and info in one topic. I doesn't have to be this topic (it won't hurt my feelings), but this has some of the background on the Senate struggle, etc. Maybe we can do a new topic after we win the Senate and need to lobby the Governor!! Actually, this info was typed in by 9divdoc, so hope you don't mind me copying your keystrokes! This is who we need to focus on now:
ORIGINALLY POSTED BY 9divdoc: [url]www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/senhomepages.html[/url] Senator Breske's Home Page [url]www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen12/sen12.html[/url] Senator Breske's and Staff's Email Addys Senate District 12 Sen. Roger Breske: Sen.Breske@legis.state.wi.us Staff: Mike Hollander: Mike.Hollander@legis.state.wi.us Elizabeth Piliouras: Elizabeth.Piliouras@legis.state.wi.us Kristin Settle: Kristin.Settle@legis.state.wi.us Vaughn Vance: Vaughn.Vance@legis.state.wi.us Cindi Winters: Cindi.Winters@legis.state.wi.us Stuart Zander: Stuart.Zander@legis.state.wi.us
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EDITED to add that I don't know how to make the emails hot links, so I'm separating them with colons. Also, do we know for sure if we have enough votes to pass or override any procedural block with Breske, or are there others we're counting on and still need to lobby? Hey, I'm offline for the night. Please try to keep this thread updated or post any new links here. [b]Let's make a final push through to victory tomorrow!![/b] After the Senate, I think the Governor will be a cakewalk!
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