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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/19/2002 5:47:01 PM EDT
The more I read and hear and see the more I can tell that there are but two types of people in the world. The people who hate Americans and would kill us and plunder all we have made. And people who would stand by and let them. The only nations on earth that would stand with us are the Aussies and the UK and by that I mean their governments they have segments of their populations that are not better then the commies and 3rd worlders. As time goes by it is clear to me that many around the world would kill us in our homes take every thing we have and spit on our graves even though there is no nation on the earth today that has not benefited from America's money,military help,you name it. So many have already resigned them selves to playing the role appeaser while we go up in flames in order to make life easier for them. No body to date has tossed there hat in the ring with us other than UK sec-ops that have stuck their asses in every fight we have had. As for the others talk is cheap,to hell with all of you!
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 5:50:25 PM EDT
ahhhh i thought i was going to get to see another "screw you guys, i'm going home!" [img]http://www.rangerstation.com/2dimages/blu-cartmansing1024x768.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:18:22 PM EDT
Ahhh yes, bianary unidimensional fallacies are just what we need to guide us through these rocky shoals. As Dubya said "Yur either fer us or agin us!" Perhaps the United States should take a page from George Herbert Walker Bush's foreign policy. His forward looking foreign policy embraced the new geo-political realities (i.e. In the wake of a bi-polar world the notion of the nation state has ended in much the same manner that the rise of the burger class in 16th c. Europe heralded the end of the Holy Roman Empire.). Papa Bush sought to craft a world in which America was not the sole super-power, but rather a law-abiding member of a community of strong prosperous nations. There are other, more gentile and productive, ways of dealing with madmen like Sadaam in today's world. However, diplomacy requires tact, skill and forethought... three things that Dubya lacks. It strikes me as quite telling that anyone who questions the legitimacy of an incursion into Iraq is labelled an "appeaser". Let's debate using logic and fact. Let's relegate rhetoric to the demagogues. I have served my country. Many of my friends still serve in the armed forces. My wife is on active duty. I live in a military community. Tonight I just learned that another one of my friends is deploying abroad this week. I am not a "peacenik" by any stretch of the imagination. I simply believe that if we are going to place the lives of those who voluntarily serve our nation in harm's way, we have the responsibility to exhaust all other options first.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:36:52 PM EDT
yawn....Whats new.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 6:50:44 PM EDT
bye cya have a nice day
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 7:03:35 PM EDT
"we have the responsibility to exhaust all other options first" Looks as if we don't have many options left,the time spent trying to exhaust everything eles is what got us in to this mess.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 11:13:59 PM EDT
OhhhhhKaaaaaaay, Lets hear some options.
Link Posted: 9/19/2002 11:34:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By byron2112: OhhhhhKaaaaaaay, Lets hear some options.
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Well like I said we are not left with much but for one we need totaly cut off nations that use the money they off of us to fight or undermine us.China,99% of the mid east,EU,ect. And I do mean totaly,we are not getting rich right now anyway,it would not take long before they come back on their knees. Get the hell out of the UN,all they have done for the last 10-15 years is come up with ways to get more money or power from America. We should go back to cold war type weapons progs. and use fear to keep us safe if nothing eles. And no matter what eles rise hell over any one if government that trys to push off mre PC crap at this point in time,if America can get up in arms over 3,000 dead and fly flags and all that good stuff we should be able to muster something for the other 300,000,000 or so alive still. It's ok to take it easy in times of peace to a point,alot of people just let bans and laws and rights slip by and never say anything but we can all see first hand what it will get you. I'm not even telling people to give up anything,if people would just spend 1/2 the time they use to go get beer on building us back up we would be back on top in no time. But as it stands now we are on a path that will end us up in a all out war with just about every body trying to grab what ever goodies they can from the big headed rich Americans. Just about everybody heats us and most of us still don't get it.
Link Posted: 9/20/2002 6:20:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2002 6:28:54 AM EDT by PINGi3]
The great historian Arnold Toynbee explained the precarious position of the "universal state". In his historical theory the "universal state" comes into being just as a civilization begins a headlong descent into disintegration. In our situation, American cultural and military dominance came into being as a result of the disintegration of western / european culture. A universal state is not geographically universal (i.e. its borders do not encompass the whole world). It is called a universal state, because it is dominated by the notion that no external force in the whole world can threaten it. The Roman Empire believed this. In fact, the politicians of the day argued vehemently that the Goths, Visagoth, Saxons, Teutons and Vandals posed no threat to the might of Rome. However history tells us that those Germanic tribes defeated Rome. They lived in fringe communities, and while they copied the culture of the universal state, they nevertheless sought its destruction. Another aspect of the universal state is the civil religion that it develops to butress its divine claim to power (e.g. last week Dubya ripped a few lines from the Gospel according to St. John the Divine when he refered to the United States of America - and not God in Christ - as the "light that shines in the darkness...") Rome had Caesar worship. We have manifest destiny. We are in a precarious position, because universal states normally, but not always, mark the end of a civilization. The arrogance of the universal state doesn't take interior and exterior threats seriously and I believe your observations illustrate this. Our planned incursion into Iraq presents us with many diplomatic and military problems. Our inclination to rule by force is also problematic. No nation has ever been able to rule by force for an extended period of time. Certainly the United Nations is dominated by third world nations who seek to hamstring the first world. They are, after all, the fringe societies that seek to imitate us simultaneously seeking our destruction. You know... American pop-music, Levi's and an AK! However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be engaged with them. In fact, that is even more of a reason to enter into diplomatic relations with them. Perhaps if the Caesar had opened trading relations the Celtic tribes instead of seeking military superiority, Hadrian's wall would have never been built. In short, I'm afraid that we'll be dumb enough to be lured into entering yet another unwinnable David and Goliath type conflict.
Link Posted: 9/20/2002 6:57:06 AM EDT
...We are in a precarious position, because universal states normally, but not always, mark the end of a civilization. The arrogance of the universal state doesn't take interior and exterior threats seriously and I believe your observations illustrate this....
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I, unfortunately agree with this. But like Armageddon there is no real timeline. It will happen as it happens. That is why we study history, to know what happened and apply it to what will happen. But as much as we'd like to think otherwise we are doomed to repeat it. I'm not saying the sky is falling but I'd suggest that the dark clouds are a-forming...
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