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Posted: 12/11/2002 9:33:49 AM EDT
[#1]
I don't believe that smokeless powder is considered to be an explosive. It burns too slow. Primers may be, however...
Rocko |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 9:38:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Anyone stocking up?
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Posted: 12/11/2002 9:40:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Think they will twist this around and apply it towards stockpiles of ammo, since ammo can be disassebmled?
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Posted: 12/11/2002 9:42:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Smokeless powder is classified as a propellant, not an explosive. That makes all the difference in the world.
However, this is a foot in the door. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 9:44:08 AM EDT
[#5]
I don't care about that stuff. I'm not a re-loader.
[grenade] Scott |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:01:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Although it's another stupid law on the books, after reading it, I don't see how it applies to reloaders in any way.
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:01:55 AM EDT
[#7]
That sucks .
I cant not even think about what this USA of ours is going to be like in 10 years. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:04:37 AM EDT
[#8]
WHO came up with this law? Why haven't we been privy to its lobbying? WTF? Did anyone else know about it pending legislation?
Answers!!! |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:05:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Scottman -
I hope your comment was meant as a joke. If not, you don't see the slippery slope. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:09:16 AM EDT
[#10]
The new legislation requires that all applicants for explosives licenses and permits submit photographs and fingerprints so that ATF can perform thorough background checks. The legislation also requires that all applicants submit the names and identifying information of all employees who will possess explosive materials. In this way, ATF can conduct a thorough background check to ensure that these individuals are not prohibited from receiving or possessing explosives. Under previous law, no background checks were conducted for the employees of businesses that used explosives. To better monitor the subjects..."your papez pleez..." |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:09:19 AM EDT
[#11]
(He was being sarcastic)
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:11:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Has this been confirmed by any of the activist organizatons? Or is this just another internet chain letter?
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:12:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Great, now I have to get a permit for my rocket propellent components. JEEZ!! You guys think the Bureau of Anything That Functions is rough on guns, try Amateur rockets, sheesh. And I was about to petition for a waiver for 75,000 ft. ::grumble::
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:12:25 AM EDT
[#14]
The permit will allow ATF to better monitor explosives commerce in an effort to enhance homeland security, but is designed to not be overly burdensome to legitimate purchasers. Not overly burdensome: Photographs and finger prints of everyone who might come into contact with the explosives plus a pile of paperwork and waiting for your permit. F**K You, BATF. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:13:21 AM EDT
[#15]
What are you all going to do about it?
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:14:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Smokeless powder is classified as a flamable solid, and not an explosive, so it wouldn't apply.
It still sucks as it is more restrictions on a "free" society. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:14:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Has this been confirmed by any of the activist organizatons? Or is this just another internet chain letter? From the BATF website [url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/press/fy03press/112502safeexpact.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:15:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: What are you all going to do about it? Use you as our patsy. Is that cool with you? |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:15:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Lets see 25lbs, 6 times a year. If they are trying to prevent stock piling of black powder; thats 150lbs in a year. Enough to make a very large explosive. Just another soccer mom law. "Its black, ugly looking, and explosive, oh dear we must ban it"
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:17:27 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: What are you all going to do about it? Ummm... rethink my plans to move to a free state? |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:25:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Smokeless powder is classified as a flamable solid, and not an explosive, so it wouldn't apply. Look at the label on any container of Alliant Powder. It plainly says: [b]CAUTION! CONTENTS EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE & EXPLOSIVE[/b] Woo hoo! |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:25:33 AM EDT
[#22]
I just called around to 5 reloading supply stores. Their statement on the subject was that it has nothing to do with reloading supplies at the private personal reloader level (their customers).
Dave Dee |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 10:32:36 AM EDT
[#23]
Well, it seems to me the poor American Farmer will now be under the thumb and hobnailed boot of the ATF. After all, they are big users of fuel oil and fertilizer. [rolleyes]
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Posted: 12/11/2002 11:16:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: (He was being sarcastic) Yes indeedy. See the little smile-guy blow himself up? [:)] Scott |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 11:36:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Look at the label on any container of Alliant Powder. It plainly says: [b]CAUTION! CONTENTS EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE & EXPLOSIVE[/b] That too could apply to a propane tank or even a propane bottle at Lowes, but it matters not! Unless it's officially classified as an explosive by the regulating agency, in this case the ATF, it isn't an explosive. That doesn't mean it can't explode. Hey, I'm not complaining. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 12:00:05 PM EDT
[#26]
It does not apply to small arms ammunition or ammunition components, including powder, and primers. Here is a key paragraph in the act:
Nothing in this Act shall be construed to affect the exception in section 845(a)(4) (relating to small arms ammunition and components of small arms ammunition) or section 845(a)(5) (relating to commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed 50 pounds intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms) of title 18, United States Code. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 12:44:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Maria Cuntwell (Senator from my state...pretty piss poor) was one of the sponsers of the original bill that INCLUDED gunpowder in it.
The bill as filed deleted the existing exemption for smokeless powder, primers, and up to 50# of black powder. The version that passed the Senate ADDED the pre-existing exemption back in. (info from Joe Waldron) |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 12:58:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Why don't you change the title of this thread.
If you would read the Act it clearly excepts small arms ammunition and components from the provisions. It's ok to be pissed about things that are unfair, when they are indeed unfair, but please attempt to address the substance of the issue with the facts, not knee-jerk hyperbole. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 1:04:33 PM EDT
[#29]
I'll make sure to buy powder through acquantances and friends from now on.
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Posted: 12/11/2002 1:27:17 PM EDT
[#30]
I think this act is mainly about the 37mm, 15mm, and 12 ga bird bombs that were being sold. The ATF changed the rules and required everyone purchasing them from the manufacture to have an explosives license...but it didn't say anthing about that person reselling them. Now it looks the forms are required for every transaction of them.
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Posted: 12/11/2002 1:27:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Why don't you change the title of this thread. If you would read the Act it clearly excepts small arms ammunition and components from the provisions. It's ok to be pissed about things that are unfair, when they are indeed unfair, but please attempt to address the substance of the issue with the facts, not knee-jerk hyperbole. Look here bud, i just recieved the email and posted its context here because i knew they would be interested in reading this. I read this website daily and had seen no mention of this so thats why i posted it. I had to run right after i read the email so i didnt have time to read over exactly what the atf website stated. Incase you havent noticed this is the first step towards restricting powder purchases. Even if small arms ammo doesnt apply it may very well apply in the next revision of this law. Also Many people here use pyrodex and that is now under their watch. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 1:57:19 PM EDT
[#32]
This part was interesting...
Additionally, on January 24, 2003, ATF will be moved to the Department of Justice and will be known as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATFE). |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 2:22:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Geez! Sounds like to me us Black Powder guys will have to start making out own. Anybody know where some good bat dung is?
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Posted: 12/11/2002 3:59:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Geez! Sounds like to me us Black Powder guys will have to start making out own. Anybody know where some good bat dung is? Black powder (up to 50 pounds) is exempt. What a lot of you don't understand is that this law is not new. It has been around for years. The only thing the new act did was bring intrastate sales under the law. |
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Posted: 12/11/2002 4:11:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Meanwhile... some overpaid office slug is wondering what's with the sudden spike of hits and interest in the explosives section of the BATF(E) website. All your IP's have been duly noted and expect a knock on your door sometime in the coming week. [:D]
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Posted: 12/11/2002 4:16:34 PM EDT
[#36]
They've been watching you since you were just a lurker.
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Posted: 12/12/2002 2:41:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: They've been watching you since you were just a lurker. Roger that! Also, in case anyone wasn't aware - the ACTUAL letters representing the new ATF will be BATFE-RC (Rainbow Coalition). |
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Posted: 12/12/2002 2:55:17 AM EDT
[#38]
No exemption for Hollywood special effects teams? Tsk, tsk, tsk. If anyone is going to be pissed, it's them because they now have to give up the names of their employees for background checks. And that includes Miguel the truck driver and Jose the security guard who are probably here illegally. I am amazed they would do this to the chosen few.
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Posted: 12/12/2002 3:12:59 AM EDT
[#39]
Not only concerning this, but I think the fine folks over at the NRA also need a boot in their ass for not informing us of the transition that BATF is making to Dept. of Justice! [pissed] Please tell me if they have in the past 6 months as I have not been able to get near an issue of [i]American Rifleman[/i] lately.
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Posted: 12/12/2002 6:41:08 AM EDT
[#40]
The list of materials the BATF considers "explosive" is published annually in the Federal Register by law. This year's is here: [url]www.atf.treas.gov/explarson/notices/notice_943.pdf[/url]
If you read it, "Smokeless powder" [i]is[/i] listed. However, as EOD_Guy pointed out, there is an exception for small-arms ammunition and components, and black powder up to 50 lbs. for use in antique arms under Title 18, Part I, Chapter 40, Section 845. But hey, "stroke of the pen, law of the land." It's good to pay attention to this stuff. |
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