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Posted: 5/6/2003 7:21:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 7:25:39 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:24:28 AM EDT
I am very disappointed in all parties involved. I'll leave it at that. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:26:02 AM EDT
However, I will say that with proper wording and such DonR and KelleyR should be allowed back...they are family after all. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:26:22 AM EDT
what's up? sounds juicy!
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:27:07 AM EDT
what in the heck is this about? Or, is this a "if ya dont know, ya dont need to know" ordeal. Just curious, -HS
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:28:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:29:47 AM EDT
did the "unsolved mystery" of the altered polls have anything to do with this? or is it another matter entirely?
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:30:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:30:08 AM EDT
None of the inviolved parties should be moderators or staff anymore, or ever again.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:31:04 AM EDT
As a casual observer, it is wrong to have contacted anyone outside of the family group here, if whatever photo was posted bothered anyone they could have told Ed Sr. and I 'm sure he would have settled the matter, fast. Going outside the board was not only wrong, it was stupid, very stupid.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:32:13 AM EDT
Calling a place of employment over ANYTHING going on with the internet is asinine. #1) It's photoshop #2) Thick skin is required on the 'net. #3) If your real life and your internet life can not forever remain seperated, then you should get off the net.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:32:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Originally Posted By sgtar15: However, I will say that with proper wording and such DonR and KelleyR should be allowed back...they are family after all. Sgtar15
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I'd give kelly more slack, but not DonR or Arock.
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He who is without sin shall cast the first stone. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:33:22 AM EDT
She had my phone number, my email address and knows how to use the IM feature on this site. If she meant no harm to me, and she only wanted the pictures removed, why did she involve my employer? She had at least three other options to use before going to my employer. Why did she choose that solution? The picture in question, that she wanted removed fro mthe server, is DonR with an Oscar Mayer logo on his shirt. TRG
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:33:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 7:36:43 AM EDT by BenDover]
Like I said before. From now on, send the pics to me and I will host them on MY server. KellyR and DonR may have an overly sensitive streak about being photoshopped, and I can accept that. Even if someone photoshops you in good fun (meaning, they tease you because they LIKE you), some people are so fragile that the humor gets lost. You have to have a strong ego and sense of identity to allow people like TRG and ilikelegs turn you into some digital frankenstein. I personally feel the situation could have easily been handled by just simply asking TRG in a direct, polite manner not to continue to display the pics. All things considered, if both parties agree to bury the hatchet (and I don't mean in each other's skulls), then I would say let them back, but not in any sort of management capacity. I noticed the topic didn't include Arock, nor was his account up for discussion. Of course, you can assume that my opinion there is to leave that [b] - - edited out the personal attacks - - [/b] out by the curb where he got kicked. I wouldn't let him back if this were the last gun website on the Internet and he owned all the guns. LONG LIVE THE PHOTOSHOP ARMY!
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:34:03 AM EDT
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:34:28 AM EDT
I have had the opportunity to be VERY involved and after all that I have read and heard from the prinicples involved, I believe that this was a case of hurt feelings blown way out of proportion and could have been handled in about 3 minutes with a simple phone call. One soldier of the TRG army, checking in.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:35:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 7:39:59 AM EDT by G-CODE]
Originally Posted By AR15fan: None of the inviolved parties should be moderators or staff anymore, or ever again.
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I agree, although it looks like this is the case anyway. edited to add, not speaking of you TRG.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:36:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 7:50:09 AM EDT by okrobocop]
I agree that neither one should be Mods or Staff again. They broke a level of trust within the "family". That is somewhat unforgiveable. Trust is the one thing that can never be totally regained. JMHO. (TRG/ILL Excluded)
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:36:57 AM EDT
I second the no mod or staff position vote.... Trust was broken....
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:37:42 AM EDT
I noticed the topic didn't include Arock, nor was his account up for discussion. Of course, you can assume that my opinion there is to leave that [b] - - edited out the personal attacks - - [/b] out by the curb where he got kicked. I wouldn't let him back if this were the last gun website on the Internet and he owned all the guns.
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Hey, where's the cream filling?
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:38:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:38:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 7:40:20 AM EDT by cyanide]
Yes, never a position of authority on the board, ever, no forgiveness for these kind of things. edit TRG is not at fault in this except in a harmless way.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:39:27 AM EDT
I've given Ed Sr. enough grief over this situation. No reason to kick [s]Arock[/s] a dead horse.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:40:42 AM EDT
If your skin is so thin that you can't stand to be photoshopped, then don't leave the house (or participate in internet discussion boards). Contacting an employer was stupid, it could have ended up much worse.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:41:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 7:42:53 AM EDT by Boomholzer]
Where is Arock, is he gone? It's like on the school playground: one 1st grade kid wipes a booger on another kid. All of a sudden, someone is crying and the teacher is involved. Now everyone on the playground knows that the teacher is going be punishing some kids. Doesn't really matter if the upset boogered kid specifically requested it or not. This is why by the time kids get into 6th grade, they know to deal with issues without the teacher. "They follow the code of the playground". I guess that the internet has become our playground and the code was broken.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:41:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:42:18 AM EDT
I wanted to add that TRG didn't do anything wrong, therefore, his Mod status should be unaffected. As Staff, a person has access to more information about an account. If that Staff member cannot be trusted with information about a member's account and shows their willingness to call an employer over some personal issue, then they can never hold that position again.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:43:48 AM EDT
As an outside observer--I was in Finland--I was very disturbed by this. I have always gotten along well with Arock and have spent a lot of time with him because I wanted to learn some things from him. If this is going to be like the DTHOR madness, where a good person goes way over the line then I must say that I will be sorry to see him go and I will miss him and his family, but we have important things to do and we must move on. As for DonR and KellyR, take a break, get your shit together and lets move on. Get a grip and enjoy life, I know it ain't all roses some times, but the only thing we have to look forward too is a pine box so we should hold on to our friends. So let's restore our TEXAN reputation of friendship and hospitality. You guys have a great rep world wide and you are fucking it up. Let's ignore the little shit and move on. Arock this is for you too. Try to get your head out of your ass and lets move on some stuff that we talked about.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:46:48 AM EDT
ilikelegs, I have spoken with Arock and DonR several times off the board. I am not discounting anything you are feeling and my remark was not meant to be smart assed. It was meant to show that I myself am not perfect and am more than willing to forgive these once proud family members. I understand your trsu was violated...that was wrong. But people fuck up, and if they learn from their mistakes then I will except them back. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:49:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:52:03 AM EDT
With all due respect sgtar15, you know that Arock did some other things in the middle of this to avert the negative attention he was getting. He directed that effort at me and I will never forget it, or forgive him for that. His attempt to 'wag the dog' was laughable, and it showed how low of character he really had.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:54:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: With all due respect sgtar15, you know that Arock did some other things in the middle of this to avert the negative attention he was getting. He directed that effort at me and I will never forget it, or forgive him for that. His attempt to 'wag the dog' was laughable, and it showed how low of character he really had.
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I only know what I have read.........maybe I don't have the whole story. Hmmmm. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:57:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 9:37:08 AM EDT by KelleyR]
1 My account was not locked because of the Stiuation with TRG. And to imply that it was, is a False accusation. 2 I have had all of the bashing about what I did. If anyone of your spouses were (sexually) PHOTOSHOPED against there will, YOU would have gone ballistc. 3 The rule 11 started this. If you all will recall that the rule was put out there and then ED Sr recinded it. So TRG took his pics that I had ask him not to post, to the Full Auto board. 4 I did call the Dean and ask to have the pics in question removed from the college server.I never ask the Dean for any kind of action aginst said TEACHER. I Know this could have been handled in a different manner. However I do not think that what TRG did was in anyway innocent. I had ask him not to PHOTOSHOP and he did. I had been lied to once by TRG and I felt he would not remove the pics. Kelley
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:58:11 AM EDT
Being that the parties involved were Staff/Moderators, I believe they should have taken action through the board, and not on a personal level. Personally taking it to TRG's employer, contacting the Police, etc. shows they were out to cause harm, not remove the pictures. A simple phone call, email, or IM would have stopped all of this in less than 5 minutes. They should have emailed TRG, EdAvilaSr, other staff, etc. asking that the pictures be removed. Before further action was be taken. (remember: some of the pictures were not photoshopped at all. In fact, they respected DonR enoungh NOT to post all of them... I've heard about them, but never saw any of them.)
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:59:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:59:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: With all due respect sgtar15, you know that Arock did some other things in the middle of this to avert the negative attention he was getting. He directed that effort at me and I will never forget it, or forgive him for that. His attempt to 'wag the dog' was laughable, and it showed how low of character he really had.
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I was amazed that I got personal attacks from Arock while I was still just trying to defuse the situation. Weird.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:03:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: ilikelegs, I have spoken with Arock and DonR several times off the board. I am not discounting anything you are feeling and my remark was not meant to be smart assed. It was meant to show that I myself am not perfect and am more than willing to forgive these once proud family members. I understand your trsu was violated...that was wrong. But people fuck up, and if they learn from their mistakes then I will except them back. Sgtar15
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I rob a bank, I fucked up, sorry. Forgive me nothing else should happen, pure bullshit.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:05:21 AM EDT
While I do know a little about arock, and photo-shopping, how does donr & Kelly fit here? I thought everything was cutsy-puffy, and he was leaving just to "move on"? Why didn't anyone ask TRG to remove the photos?? Did they ask, and he refused? Or did they just go to his employer? Are the offending photos available online now? How did bendover get dragged into it? Who's on first??[;D] Some here have said "hey, it's the internet, get a life". For some here, the internet IS, (right or wrong), their life....
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:06:38 AM EDT
It's nice to know that kelleyR is starting the personal attacks right off the bat. I belive that she should go ahead and be banned since she is starting to show her true colors again from the git go. JMHO.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:09:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 8:11:19 AM EDT by TheRedGoat]
Originally Posted By KelleyR: 2 I have had all of the bashing about what I did. If anyone of your spouses were (sexually) PHOTOSHOPED against there will, YOU would have gone ballistc.
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That is a lie. You tell me what image [b]I [/b]sexually photoshopped. I posted a pic of DonR wearing an Oscar Mayer logo on his shirt, and in a poster with Newman titled "The Bald Headed Prima Donna", there were a couple of other images, but none on them were in any way sexual images.
3 The rule 11 started this. If you all will recall that the rule was put out there and then when TRG whined like a baby, ED Sr recinded it. So TRG took his pics that I had ask him not to post, to the Full Auto board.
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I whined like a baby? Oh, that's funny!
4 I did call the Dean and ask to have the pics in question removed from the college server.
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Did you whine like a baby?
I never ask the Dean for any kind of action aginst said TEACHER. I Know this could have been handled in a different manner. However I do not think that what TRG did was in anyway innocent. I had ask him not to PHOTOSHOP and he did. I had been lied to once by TRG and I felt he would not remove the pics.
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You keep trying to claim that you asked me not to photoshop an image. That is a lie. I have your emails that PROVE that you asked me to NOT post an image of DonR, 'asleep' in a chair with a hotdog in his lap. Through ALL of this, I have kept my word and NOT posted that image. TRG ps. You spent alot of time in your post justifying your actions, and not one word of apology for it.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:09:41 AM EDT
Get rid of the moderators who pulled this stunt permantly. What they did showed a lack of good sense, good taste and good ethics. If personal insults were allowed in this thread, I would say they were stupid, but since I cannot say that I will say that the moderators in question demonstrated an incridible ability to take actions that indicate a below average intelligence and created a situation that could have not only harmed the targete of their vendetta, but the board that we all like to spend time on. Cheers, Sean
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:10:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KelleyR: 1 My account was not locked because of the Stiuation with TRG. And to imply that it was, is a False accusation.[RED]Well, why was it locked? More transgressions of trust?[/red] 2 I have had all of the bashing about what I did. If anyone of your spouses were (sexually) PHOTOSHOPED against there will, YOU would have gone ballistc.[red]Actually, you have no idea what the rest of us would do. This is an ASSUMPTION. I'm sorry you feel so badly, but if your skin is not thick enough to be here on the internet then maybe you should go...hurt feelings are hurt feelings. Losing a job is a little more intense then hurt feelings.[/red] 3 The rule 11 started this. If you all will recall that the rule was put out there and then when TRG whined like a baby, ED Sr recinded it. So TRG took his pics that I had ask him not to post, to the Full Auto board.[red]Actually, I was right up in Arock's face about it too, and I can't photoshop to save my life. The culture was established that photoshop was a "way of AR15.com life" rule 11. Sponsored by? My guess.....DonR and Arock, supported by KelleyR. So if Rule 11 started it, then the three of you are on point. Huh?[/red] 4 I did call the Dean and ask to have the pics in question removed from the college server.I never ask the Dean for any kind of action aginst said TEACHER. I Know this could have been handled in a different manner. However I do not think that what TRG did was in anyway innocent. I had ask him not to PHOTOSHOP and he did. I had been lied to once by TRG and I felt he would not remove the pics.[red]From your own words written on this page you called the dean without discussing the matter properly with TRG. Period. You assumed again. You know what assuming does, right? It did, on both sides of the ball. I say ONE MORE time if your skin is to thin to deal with folks on the internet then maybe you should recuse yourself permanently from the internet boards.[/red] Kelley
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Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:11:07 AM EDT
The individuals who thought that they'd been sleighted KNOW TRG. They KNOW him, he's not an unknown quantity. They KNOW him. How God-damned bizarre is it to telephone the police, his employer, and other authorities over some photographs that most of us just didn't care about in the first place? That's just insane. Couldn't it all have been resolved with a simple telephone call to TRG instead of all of these outside parties? How hard would it have been to just ask him to remove the photographs? Would it really have been that difficult to SPEAK with someone who was considered your FRIEND? I really don't see anything malicious in anything TRG did. Can't say the same for the others.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:13:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Did they ask, and he refused?
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I was not contacted by donR, KelleyR or Arock. I found out that they were unhappy about it when my boss caleld me into his office to tell me of the complaints.
Or did they just go to his employer?
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Yup.
Are the offending photos available online now?
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In my AR15.com gallery.
How did bendover get dragged into it?
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Slandering BenDover when BenDover called Newman's hand early in the game. Who's on first??[;D] Some here have said "hey, it's the internet, get a life". For some here, the internet IS, (right or wrong), their life....
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Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:14:31 AM EDT
Banish the 3 of them. There is no trust left. No apologies have been offered. Just attempts to justify their Judas like behavior. Let Jesus forgive them, I won't.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:14:38 AM EDT
I just realized that KelleyR is acting just like Natalie Maines. "I will say that this is an apology, but in reality I am justifying my untrustworthy actions". Can you say "4 French Hens"?....lol.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:14:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy: The individuals who thought that they'd been sleighted KNOW TRG. They KNOW him, he's not an unknown quantity. They KNOW him. How God-damned bizarre is it to telephone the police, his employer, and other authorities over some photographs that most of us just didn't care about in the first place? That's just insane. Couldn't it all have been resolved with a simple telephone call to TRG instead of all of these outside parties? How hard would it have been to just ask him to remove the photographs? Would it really have been that difficult to SPEAK with someone who was considered your FRIEND? I really don't see anything malicious in anything TRG did. Can't say the same for the others.
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Malicious intent......yep sure was.....
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:16:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 8:21:53 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:17:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2003 8:20:30 AM EDT by SC-Texas]
TAR and Feather them! All of them. Anyone got photos of these nutcases? This is a good time to use the photoshop to add: 1. Tar 2. Feathers 3. a rail to ride them out of town on. Finally, a great use of photoshop. How long b/f we can see these images on FA.com? Anyway, I got work to do!
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:17:30 AM EDT
This is going down hill fast! I really hoped all parties involved would just admit to their part and we could move on. Hopefully we still can. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:18:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr: I would like to iterject this: If you read the title you will see this is about [b]Kelley and TheRedGoat[/b]. [b]It thread is not about Arock's actions or about DonR.[/b] Those are separate issues and must not be linked to the discussion at hand. Neither Arock nor DonR have accounts with which they can respond,so please,focus on the issues with Kelley.
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Ed they are so intertwined that it is so hard to differentiate them.....
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