Saw about a 30 seconds of this news on FOX News at about 00:05 this AM.

[b]Israeli ship loaded with arms for Iran was caught by German authorities.[/b]

Israel says it will investigate.

(Investigate my ass.)

Maybe it was Yasser's boat in disguise.  Just like that munitions boat they discovered last year.  Or was it early this year?

Nope !

Israeli ship loaded with arms for Iran.

Nothing in my emails from CNBC, MSNBC, etc., this AM.  

The US government, the US media and the Israelis will likely sweep this under a rug ASAP.  Probably already have.

I know we can depend on Israel for a truthful and full investigation.

[b]After all, Israel is the friend and ally of all you Israel Firsters !![/b]

They're probably trying to re-ignite a war between Iran & Iraq.  I hope they blow each other to smithereens.

Now THAT works for me !

It was on DrudgeReport Yesterday but now the link is gone.

GUess 5subslr5's right about the coverup.

Wonder what they got on Matt Drudge?

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10521-2002Aug29.html[/url]

Customs inspectors in Hamburg discovered the two containers holding [b]treads for armored personnel carriers[/b] in mid-August on a ship in the city's port. The cargo was being transferred from one freighter to another for onward transport to Iran, Hamburg customs authorities said in a statement.

Hmmmmmmmm....

Story broke by PRAVDA

Actually the link provided by Osprey is to the Washington Post.

[b]The Israeli company is "PIAD" headed by Aviel Weinstein.
Mr. Weinstein is probably a Palestinian huh Firsters ??[/b]

They have been selling stuff to China as well, This does concern me greatly.

We do give them the highest technology that we export to any foreign country, and loan technology that never goes to any other country, including the UK. Intel that we would share with no one else was shared with Israel as well.

While I have supported backing Israel in the ME, I think we must DEMAND that these types of activities stop, and stop supplying them with our secrets, both hi tech and intel.

We must also take into consideration that in a free market society, that companies do often sell out for profit, even if it places it's own country or friendly nations at risk. How about our own Lorral?

Thoughts to ponder....

Israel was China's largest trading partner and is now number two.

(From memory.)

Here's the Israeli version of this event. See if you think there is a problem with the Israeli givernment and how it handled the matter.

[size=4]Germany: Israeli military shipment was bound for Iran[/size=4]
By Ellis Shuman  August 29, 2002

German customs officials stopped a private Israeli shipment of rubber treads for armored personnel carriers and charged that it was bound for Iran.

German customs officials stopped a private Israeli shipment of rubber treads for armored personnel carriers bound for Thailand and said the cargo was actually being delivered to Iran. The ship, which was docked in Hamburg for several days, is sailing back to Israel. [b]The company which provided the parts may not have known the final destination, but its owners were suspected of selling arms to Iran in the past.[/b]

Defense Ministry officials and Israeli Police have launched an investigation into the incident. A statement issued by the Defense Ministry said the export of the rubber treads had been authorized on the premise that the cargo was headed for Thailand. "German customs authorities informed the Defense Ministry that the final destination (of the ship's cargo) was Iran. The Defense Ministry prohibits the sale of military equipment or spare parts for weapons of any kind to Iran," the statement said.

The shipment, onboard the [i][b]Zim Antwerpen[/b][/i], consisted of 3,000 rubber treads for M-113 armored personnel carriers in two containers. The treads were manufactured in Israel by Tagel, a company located in the Haifa Bay area. Tagel, which is not suspected of any wrongdoing, sold the equipment to another Israeli company - P.A.D. (pronounced pee-odd) - owned by Avichai Weinstein, 34, an arms dealer from Netanya. P.A.D. received export authorization after declaring that the rubber treads would be taken off the ship for local use in Thailand, Maariv reported.

The shipment was due to be transferred via a Malaysian company to a German company by the name of Steinsurt. According to media reports, customs officials believe that this German company intended to ship the equipment to Iran onboard the [i][b]Iran Baakeri[/b][/i], but this transfer may have been planned for the Far East. Israel has no trade relations with Malaysia, Army Radio noted.

Weinstein's brother-in-law and business partner, Eli Cohen, 52, was suspected three years ago of trying to sell tank engines to Iran. Weinstein reportedly assisted Cohen in the planned transaction, and both men were questioned but no indictments were issued against them. Maariv reported that Cohen worked, starting in 1996, with a South Korean arms dealer who had trade connections with Iran. As a result of these suspicions, the Defense Ministry rescinded contacts with P.A.D. and canceled Weinstein's permits to export military equipment. But Weinstein appealed to the High Court of Justice and his export permits were reinstated, Yediot Aharonot reported.

"Everything has been done legally and with all the necessary permits," Haim Misgav, Weinstein's attorney, told ynet. "My client can't export a pin out of the country without permission of the Defense Ministry. He sold the equipment to a company from Thailand, and there is no way he can know where it will eventually end up." Misgav said that Weinstein is in Israel, but refuses to comment on the issue based on recommendations of his rabbi.

[b]Officials in the Defense Ministry commented that the arms deal "stank" and said that Weinstein "would have to give pretty good explanations for his actions." The officials said, "It is strange that the same person is repeatedly suspected for trading with an enemy country like Iran, and it is likely that this is not just a series of coincidences," Maariv reported[/b].

German authorities said the [i][b]Zim Antwerpen[/b][/i] would be returning to Israel with the two containers. German Foreign Ministry officials refused to comment on the shipment.

Israel's Zim shipping company said that it has no connection to the content of cargo on its ships, and that the Zim Antwerpen carried some 500 containers, all of which received the proper permits and authorizations.

[b]In 1998, an Israeli court sentenced Nahum Manbar to 16 years in prison for arranging to sell Iran materials for making poison gas. Manbar's claim that he was not alone in trading with Iran, and that Israeli companies were also selling arms to the Islamic republic, was rejected by the judges, Ha'aretz reported.[/b]

See article at: [url]http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ArticlePage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El1383&enZone=Security&enVersion=0&[/url]

Now the question is: why do you 'Israel Bashers' insist on seeing everything done by an Israeli private company as something done by the Israeli government?

The Israeli government had no interest in having poison gas components sold to Iran for possible use against Israeli citizens!

Get a grip! Go grab a cup of coffee and smoke a cigarette or something!

[b]subdude[/b], your headline should have read  - 'Israeli Company Selling Tank Treads to Iran.'

Eric The(Sensible)Hun[>]:)]

[b]HUN, the FOX report said the ship "was loaded with arms bound for Iraq."[/b]

The rubber tank tread bullshit is new this AM.

Not even metal tank treads - rubber !!

[b]There must be SOME limit to what even a FIRSTER will believe ??[/b]

But probably not.

The rubber is just the pad.  It bolts into the track sections (metal).  The pads wear out fairly quickly, and are used for extra traction on roads and to prevent road damage.

Post from 5subslr5 -

Probably not! [:D]

But whatever FoxNEWS [u]may[/u] have reported the other day, no news channel or media outlet is saying anything today, [u]other[/u] than that the shipment consisted of two containers of replacement rubber treads for APCs.

So if it's some sort of conspiracy of silence, it surely is strange that even the anti-Israeli sites are not saying 'a shipload of arms'!

Finish that cigarette, yet? [:D]

Eric The(HaveAnotherCup'oJoe,Too!)Hun[>]:)]

Alright, alright, I'm puffin and drinkin - coffee !!

(I admit it is virtually impossible for me to believe much the government of Israel says.  I do believe I have 'some' grounds for my disbelief based upon past history.)

I saw the FOX report 'this AM'.

[b]Thanks for the info SJ.[/b]  Didn't know this.

"Misgav said that Weinstein is in Israel, but refuses to comment on the issue based on recommendations of his rabbi."

legal advice from a rabbi??? oy vey!

Well that's that.

Guess I was wrong about Mr. Weinstein being Palestinian !!

Avichai Weinstein the arms dealer...

[green]$$$[/green]"I'm innocent! It's all a misunderstanding. Really!"  [green]$$$[/green]

Well, if he is prosecuted for selling arms to an avowed enemy of his country then he was a rogue agent. If he gets a slap on the wrist we'll know something else is up (a la Iran-Contra).

Yet another example of how bright the Israelis aren't. The Israeli government no doubt didn't have anything to do with it (it was done by an Israeli company) but they didn't stop it either. This isn't surprising if you take into account that over half of the weapons in the Palestinian territories came from Israel, even from Israeli settlers in the West Bank (the same settlers who are shot dead by those very weapons).

I can hear them whining come the next Arab-Israeli war - "Save us USA, save us, they are killing us with our (and your) weapons!! Help us, help us!! More weapons, more money, we promise we won't arm our enemies this time!!!"

Some of you people are full of so much shit.  You are so eager to convince people, and perhaps even yourselves, that Israel (and Jews) are the enemy of freedom, justice and the American way, that you will forego all bounds of common sence...

Just think about it for a second.  Why on earth would the Israeli GOVERNMENT sell arms or permit others from Israel to sell arms to its mortal enemies???  Bend over and use your good eye people...THINK!!!

Why? Simple. The word is "GREED" which can surpass even centuries old hatreds. They get money from the arms sales and these arms sales create a greater threat from their "enemies" to which the U.S. responds by giving even more aid to Israel.

And since they want to take such an active role in pouring gasoline on the Middle Eastern fire, let them fend for themselves from here on out. Looks like they don't need our BILLIONS in hard earned tax dollars with such financial side ventures to one of our most notorious enemies.

Selling ANYTHING to Iran even remotely related to militarty use is a GROSS violation of our "relationship" with Israel.

And knowing how the Iranians feel about the Jews goes to show what some people will do for a quick buck. Pretty disgusting.

Gee, I don't know scipio. Why would the "The Great Satan" [img]http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/flag2/us.gif[/img] have sold arms through off the books companies to the [img]http://www.contrabandent.com/cwm/s/contrib/xerx/happykhamenei.gif[/img] crazy ayatollahs? Something illogical about those two great enemies conducting business, isn't there.

Let's just see what happens to the guy. That's my indicator.

Looks as if Mr. Weinstein is about 32 years old.

Additionally, [b]Mr. Weinstein was busted about 6 years ago but released due to 'lack of evidence'.[/b]

My prediction:  All mention of this incident will disappear from the media.

I'm not trying to put words into any mouth but this is my take on the 'Israel Firster's' position.

Israel does nothing wrong - ever.

When Israel does something wrong see number one.

(I thought only God (and maybe a prophet or two) was PERFECT ??
----------------------------------------------

Then there seems to be some who reference the Bible as their reason for why Israel can do nothing wrong.

Truly I don't understand this position.  Can someone explain this line of thinking to me ??
------------------------------------------------

Then there is this "Anti-Christ" chap that seems to crop up from time to time.

Is this a reference to Sharon ??

Post from Imbroglio -

Yes, bunkie, that is a very 'simple' answer indeed.

Why not give it a little more thought? This company wasn't sharing its revenue with the Israeli government was it?

So why would 'greed' drive Israeli officials to permit such a sale of contraband to occur in the first place?

And Israel doesn't need any help in convincing the United States that Iran is a threat to peace anywhere in the region.

So, it appears that [u]any[/u] basis you have for saying that the Israeli government was involved, is bogus!

The simplest answer is almost always the best and correct answer - these Israeli citizens were, , crooks. That's it, that's all there is to the story.

[i][b]Crooks try to make money from criminal act![/b][/i]

[size=3][b]Stop the presses![/b][/size=3]

Course, I know that you must figure than amongst all us 'Israel Firsters', we would never concede that criminals even existed in the Holy Land! Well, at least not in 'our' part of the Holy Land!

Well, bunkie, you'd be wrong!

Eric The([i][b]Mazeltov![/b][/i])Hun[>]:)]

Arafat eh ?  [b]I seem to get the two murderers -Arafat and Sharon - mixed up.  Probably because there is no difference between the two.[/b]

Post from 5subslr5 -

If you can see no difference between these two, your 'morality radar' is askew!

POS Arafat orders the murder of American diplomats. Shot in a basement 'from the legs up' to maximize suffering!

POS Arafat orders, allows, and encourages the death of [b]FIVE AMERICAN CITIZENS[/b] in a cafeteria at Hebrew University, as well as 40 other American citizens during this second Intifada.

Now, just how many Americans has Ariel Sharon killed?

Answer - none! Do you know of any?

Eric The(ButMaybeAmericansAreNotTheBestMeasure,Eh?)Hun[>]:)]

Certainly not the only measure.

The only reason I can think of is because they are [b]STUPID[/b]. Why is the Israeli government allowing its own citizens and soldiers to sell weapons to Palestinian terrorists? Have you never wondered why you see Palestinians holding and shooting current model M16s and M4s? It never occured to you where they came from?

Do some thinking of your own and get back to us.

Ah I see - the Clinton's fault.

Please tell me.......has Israel ever, at anytime done ANYTHING wrong ?

Do you have a clue that Israel is a pariah, a rouge among nations  ??

Who helped Israel develop atomic weapons ??  Why South Africa - another rogue nation.

Which worthless country prevents the US from having a coherent policy in the middle east - why Israel of course. ??

Israel is of absolutely no strategic value to the U.S.  In the middle east only Arabia and Turkey are strategic.

In the entire fucking world's community of nations Israel has exactly one ally.  Ever wonder why ??  No, of course you haven't.
-----------------------------------------------

This 'perfect Israel' business must be some religious thing ??  Otherwise no person with an IQ reaching toward European room temperature could possibly support Israel.

Post from 5subslr5 -

Not solely, Barak was an idiot for going along!

Too many things to list here. I, for one, have never said they were perfect, just that they were just about the same as the United States!

Among which nations? The European Community?
Hah-hah-hah! Among the Asian nations? Heh-heh! How about among the African nations? Ho-Ho-Ho!

Yeah, sure. South Africa was a rogue nation cause they had a system of racial policies that were similar to ours while you and I were growing up [b]subsailor![/b]

No. I think that distinction should go to Saudi Arabia (for its ties to Terrorism) and to the Arab Emirates (likewise),

Not [u]exactly[/u] the way that [u]every[/u] US Administration since Truman has viewed it!

Yes, the US is just about Israel's only ally, but it's my opinion that Israel is the US's only true ally in the world, as well! You think Great Britain is up to the job?  Read any of Tony Blair's speeches lately?

I do, I do! And I've always said that you can support Israel 100% without [u]any[/u] religious reasons at all!

Eric The(Outstanding)Hun[>]:)]

Ther you go - see - 5subslr5 knows his stuff!

Arafat and Sharon = no difference!


Just like Hirohito's Japan, Hitler's Germany, and the US were the same in WWII.  Anybody ever see pictures of what our bombers did to CIVILIAN populations in Japan and Germany?  We were just like our enemies, if not worse.

US - Japan - Germany = no difference!


It's like cops and robbers - there's really not a "right and wrong" - it's just a perspective issue.

Why thank you [b]'showtar'[/b] for taking time from your busy schedule to respond.

I'm gonna mosy over to the anti-Christ topic now and see if I can catch-up with Sharon.

[and more lines of similar coherence]

Go to bed, Eric, you're frigging drunk and you make even less sense than usual.
Hysteric screaming still doesn't win an argument.

Post from 5subslr5 -

Sorry, but we 'Israel Firsters' are fungible!

We are in lockstep (but not [i][b]goose-step[/b][/i]) when it comes to defending Israel! [:D]

[b]Heh-heh-heh. Hah-hah-hah. Ho-ho-ho![/b]

Sorry, [b]subdude[/b], but I saw [b]Kar98[/b] looking over your shoulder and I just couldn't resist!

Eric The(HeUnderstands!)Hun[>]:)]

You have to admit Clinton put Israel under a lot of pressure. And I'm sure he offered Arafat a lot of money to go along. Remember, Bill's legacy was at stake.