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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:47:47 PM EDT
Question is in the title. P.S. I sure the F*CK won't!
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:51:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 9:53:56 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
I am not voting for him NOW What I posted in another thread: [b]He has the intention of signing it, and he WILL sign it if does get to his desk. He loses my vote just because he would do it if he could. If you knew a guy wanted to rape your wife would you still let him in your house? Or say, "well I know he wants to rape her, but I'll let him in and if he rapes her, then I will kick him out"[/b] Think about it.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:52:39 PM EDT
Cool M4, can ya take the poll......please![:)]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:57:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:04:06 AM EDT
If he resigns and the only choices we have are him or Lieberman.......I just wont vote period.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:17:20 AM EDT
didn't vote for him in the first place
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:39:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sniper_408: Question is in the title. P.S. I sure the F*CK won't!
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I'll be madder than hell, but you might reconsider once you realize your alternatives are likely to be Gary Hart or Tom Kerry. Hell, I'd probably vote for Al Sharpton before I'd vote for either of those two!
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 1:13:39 AM EDT
Why did you vote for him in the first place? He campaigned saying he was for the current ban. I still think it's ridiculous that one-issue viters may get there ay and put another Democrat in office. You think you'll be any better off then?
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 1:14:55 AM EDT
I won't vote for him if he does but an [b]R[/b] vote around here don't count for shit anyways.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 3:12:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sydney7629: Why did you vote for him in the first place? He campaigned saying he was for the current ban. I still think it's ridiculous that one-issue viters may get there ay and put another Democrat in office. You think you'll be any better off then?
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The "one issue" is obeying the Constitution.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 3:25:20 AM EDT
Bush can have the AW Ban killed in Congress so he doesn't have to sign it. If he lets it get out of Congress, I won't vote for him or anyone else that voted for it.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 4:41:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 4:43:10 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
If GWB signs the new AWB Bill, and you don't vote for him, and he then loses to a VIRULENTLY anti-gun Democrat, who then signs a Complete Semi-Auto Ban Bill.... ...and an Anti-Handgun Ownership Bill ...and a Mandatory Gun Registration Bill ...and decides that the way to win the war on terrorism is to admit America is at fault, and try to make the Arabs like us... Will you be pleased?
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:11:00 AM EDT
The sad thing is is that GWB thinks he has enough votes to get re-elected even if he does support renewal of the AWB. Just goes to show you that no issue is sacred to any of the parties out there.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:18:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 5:21:05 AM EDT by Kihn]
I'm beginning to think that all this talk just tickles the Dems pink. Somehow they always have the ability to jerk us around and get us on the defensive even when they are in the minority in both houses. You would think the prospect of losing an additional 5 seats in the Senate the next election cycle would dampen their enthusiasm for what is ALWAYS a costly position for them. Some Dem Senators need to be reminded that their position in favor of more gun control will cost them many votes and perhaps their seat (as it always has for the past 15 years) you would hear less about this issue. Granted- it will have no effect on those who are firmly entrenched within their Liberal constituencies but many more aren't than are and it is going to hurt their party AGAIN this cycle. Time to get that message out now and perhaps it would die a quiet death from the pressure within the Dem Party because it is political death for many and they know it. Just got to show the Dem party members with the conservative base know that they are being led down the wrong path. We shouldn't be on the defensive on this at this point in time with so much in our favor. Time to take the fight to them, just like they are trying to do to us. And GWB needs to be reminded that it will hurt him as well just like it did his father. Hell no I won't vote for him again if he does.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:34:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:47:27 AM EDT
That's EXACTLY what I suspected. I believe that many of those who feel this way, really just want to be able to live out their SHTF, Rambo-revolution fantasies. Those who feel this way are probably not married, and probably not very happy with their lives.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:48:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 5:50:56 AM EDT by Bartholomew_Roberts]
I judge people based on their actions and not their words. Look at the anti-gun crowd, how many times have you heard "We don't want to ban guns. We just want reasonable gun safety." Did anybody here suddenly think that their position had changed to a less extremist one? Probably not, because we can all tell by their action that this isn't the case. A politician has to get reelected to do anything and Bush can SAY anything he wants to that end. He needs to understand though, that taking actions to renew the assault weapon bill is unacceptable in my view and I will not vote for somebody who does it. I've done all I can as a citizen to make both his party and the President understand my stance on this. They already know that voting for renewal means no support from me in 2004. As much as a Kerry or Lieberman might do to restrict guns, it won't be anywhere near the damage we will do to RKBA by showing the Republicans they can screw us at will and we will still vote for them. For that matter, even Dems realize that gun control is a loser issue now. Anybody see the Dem debate on ABC? They ask "Who favors licensing and registration of handguns?" Despite the fact that they were playing to a more radical Dem base during the primary, the only guy to speak up in support was Al Sharpton - who knows damn well he isn't going to be nominated anyway. That is a pretty dramatic change from even the recent 2000 elections, let alone previous ones. In the long run, I think it is better to risk four years of any Democratic president than send the message to Republicans that we will vote for them even after they abandon us on key issues. Because the Republicans aren't in it because they love us dearly. They are in it because they need our votes and once they think they can have our votes whether they support our goals or not, then why risk alienating soccer moms to get our votes?
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:48:53 AM EDT
I think its a stretch to equate rape with a President signing a bill that was passed by Congress into law. Also, while that one issue I mentioned may be the Constitution, I'll leave it up to the Supreme Court to determine its constitutionality. Look, people. Our president, for the first time in 12 years, has gained the respect of the US citizenry and its military. If supported by Congress, his tax cuts will probably lead to tremendous economic growth, His administration has managed to prevent terrorist attacks through two wars with Islamic nations, his "no child left behind" policy will markedly improve public eductation. But wait...you want to throw that away because he'll sign a bill, if it even gets to him, that will make you no worse off than you are now regarding gun ownership. Am I wrong or can you still go buy an AR15? I'd like to remind you that this president is in office because of the electoral college. He had less popular votes than Al Gore. You can throw your votes away on a Libertarian or not vote at all. But be careful what you wish for...you will probably get it
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:55:04 AM EDT
Choose your future. Look at the candidates, imagine the consequences of their victory, then vote. Look realistically. Voting libertarian, is the same as writing in your own name. It's childish and self-indulgent. Vote libertarian at the local level, that's how you build a party. You have to be patient.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 5:59:03 AM EDT
Well, I guess the 72% who (at this point) are saying "No F#$King Way!" will be the first to pop bottles of champagne the night that Hillary wins the election. I'm sure you will be SO happy when HER radical anti-gun agenda gets pressed into reality! Oh, yes! You'll all talk big about "voting from the rooftops" and "from my cold dead hands", but you will stand by and let the party who will openly, aggressively, and proudly rape your rights win the election because the other party does something (albeit foolish) to stay in power, which is more to our interests than the alternative. One-issue voters are idiots, no matter what side they're on. Flame away. But if GW loses the election because you assholes sat on your hands, I expect to see you all volunteering to hand your weapons in the day the DemoncRAT takes the oath. Oh, yeah, and I'll not want to hear a PEEP of complaint from any of you.... P.S. - Has it occurred to any of you holier-than-thou RKBA-purists that it will be EASIER to coinvince the Congress and the President NOT to support a new ban or additional laws if OUR guys are there? ...or would you rather stand by and later take your chances with President H. Klinton, VP DiFi, Senate Majority Leader Schumer, and Speaker Conyers? [b]WAKE THE FUCK UP, FOR GOD'S SAKE![/b]
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 6:04:32 AM EDT
They WANT draconian gun laws, because they want revolution. THEY are very miserable. I prefer a happy and prosperous life for my wife and child. Hey, to each their own.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 6:19:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 6:23:31 AM EDT by Zaphod]
Originally Posted By Emoto:
Originally Posted By sydney7629: Why did you vote for him in the first place? He campaigned saying he was for the current ban. I still think it's ridiculous that one-issue viters may get there ay and put another Democrat in office. You think you'll be any better off then?
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The "one issue" is obeying the Constitution.
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Cute.... Naive, but cute.... You fail to understand that you'll be helping elect a party that has NO respect for the Constitution AT ALL. The Republicans may not be perfect (not even close), but they're a BLOODY SIGHT better than the other assholes! So go ahead! Vote with the Constitution in mind! Go ahead! ...and when the other side wins and begins to shred the Constitution in earnest, you can beat your chest proudly and roar about how you stood up for your values. The fact that the Constitution will be GONE will be lost on you, anyway. Edited to add: Amen, Cincinattus. I, for one, would like to have my daughters grow up in a country where the battles against government encroachment take place at the ballot box and in the arena of ideas, rather than with real weapons in the streets. If left with no other choice, I'll pick up my AR and fight, but we are nowhere NEAR that point. Of course, letting Dems into power will only bring such a nightmare CLOSER.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 6:33:36 AM EDT
Probably not...not quite decided...If the dems get in gun ownership is in even deeper trouble.. The bus of state has been hijacked and being driven over a cliff...the dems want to drive it over at 100mph and the repubs at 35 mph A message needs to be strongly sent imo to the repubs though...if they move against their base and appease liberals...they dont get elected or re-elected...period...
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 6:56:25 AM EDT
Zaphod, Cinci, You gents know I have a great deal of respect for the both of you. But it seems to me if GWB signs the new AWB, and we hold our noses and vote for him anyway, then we have just tried to apease an oppressor. We would have no more honor then the Germans or the French for their stand with Saddam. We will have just voted for the slow train to the concentration camp. If now is not the time to set this government on a proper bearing, then when will it be time? When we are all old and grey? When our children and grand children will have to carry the burden? When the correction needed will be much larger then it is today? I've got a beautiful wife, a handsome son, a good paying job, a new house, in short I have a great life. I am not a SHTF Rambo wannabe. All I want is the freedom and liberty enumerated by the Constitution. We continualy elect officials who whittle away our freedoms, and we need to stop. The Liberty Tree will have to be refreshed. Will we do it now or later?
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:10:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher: If now is not the time to set this government on a proper bearing, then when will it be time?
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A proper bearing? By electing a democrat, or creating anarchy and revolt??? Think realistically. There won't be a "revolution" because of this bill, maybe a couple of McVeighs, but nothing of consequence. Is that what you want? To accelerate the decline of our nation, by electing abhorrant leaders, hoping they will make things draconian enough to ignite rebellion? Not me. I think it's still possible to do this within the framework of the Constitution. Those who wish for revolt and the resulting anarchy are FOOLS if they believe we will still have a constitution when it's over. No longer a super power, we will be prey for our foreign enemies, as well. They hunger for the false "freedom" of anarchy, as do many desperate Libertarians.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:19:58 AM EDT
I fail to see how voting for Bush, even with his stance on the AWB, is further whittling away at our gun rights. His stance on the AWB ban and his signing it (once again, IF it gets to him!) will not take ANY rights way from us that we have now. Can anyone site an example of a Republican introducing new gun control legislation? Do you honestly believe that his going along with the AWB and your voting for him is going to open the flood gates for the Republicans to start with their own gun control legislation? Democrats love to spend your money and tell you what is good and bad for you. They love to allow the government to make decisions for you as to what is safe or what is necessary in your lives. Let's not confuse the two parties
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:21:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher: Zaphod, Cinci, You gents know I have a great deal of respect for the both of you. But it seems to me if GWB signs the new AWB, and we hold our noses and vote for him anyway, then we have just tried to apease an oppressor. We would have no more honor then the Germans or the French for their stand with Saddam. We will have just voted for the slow train to the concentration camp. If now is not the time to set this government on a proper bearing, then when will it be time? When we are all old and grey? When our children and grand children will have to carry the burden? When the correction needed will be much larger then it is today? I've got a beautiful wife, a handsome son, a good paying job, a new house, in short I have a great life. I am not a SHTF Rambo wannabe. All I want is the freedom and liberty enumerated by the Constitution. We continualy elect officials who whittle away our freedoms, and we need to stop. The Liberty Tree will have to be refreshed. Will we do it now or later?
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DP, I'm certainly not saying I'd be HAPPY to vote for him again. I did NOT choose the "YES! ABSOULTELY! BLAH BLAH!" option. But the fact remains that if I were on a train to a concentration camp (to borrow your analogy), I'd much rather take the SLOW train. Why? Because it gives me time to think and act to derail the train. Maybe even to convince the guards to turn the damn thing around! And if my wife and kids were on the train, I'd much rather have the opportunities to do what I described above rather than suddenly finding myself inside the wire with no further hope. Yes, I'd fight, but I'd not urge the conductor to go faster just so we could get it on, already. I recognize that holding your vote over a politician's head is the best tool you have. As such, VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE IN THE PRIMARY! Send your message that way! BUT DON'T HAND YOUR AVOWED ENEMY A LESSON BECAUSE YOUR FRIEND DOESN'T AGREE WITH YOU 100%! That's insane!
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:27:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: If GWB signs the new AWB Bill, and you don't vote for him, and he then loses to a VIRULENTLY anti-gun Democrat, who then signs a Complete Semi-Auto Ban Bill.... ...and an Anti-Handgun Ownership Bill ...and a Mandatory Gun Registration Bill ...and decides that the way to win the war on terrorism is to admit America is at fault, and try to make the Arabs like us... Will you be pleased?
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Yes, it's better than having a milquetoast for president. I'd prefer a Stalin though. Let's get this shit over with one way or the other...
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:32:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: That's EXACTLY what I suspected. I believe that many of those who feel this way, really just want to be able to live out their SHTF, Rambo-revolution fantasies. [red]Those who feel this way are probably not married, and probably not very happy with their lives.[/red]
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Guess again..... Cinci, you are nice and comfy??? So's everybody else...
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:36:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 7:39:36 AM EDT by MatthewDaugherty]
I will not vote for him if continues to support the 1994's ban. Even though I'm a recovering Republican I did vote for Bush in 2000. I will not continue to blindly vote Republican and have our gun rights just slip away at a slower rate than the Democrats would have them leave us. I will vote Libertarian if Bush continues down this path. I have withheld my renewal of my NRA membership also to hear if they will back Bush if he keeps his support for 1994 ban. Hurt them with the wallet and the ballot.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:37:25 AM EDT
Hmmmmmm. My enemy wants to cut my head off. But my "friend" wants to kill me with a thousand small cuts. My "friend" wants to twist the blade my enemy shoved into my back 9 years ago. My "friend" does not want to correct the wrongs enacted when my enemy was in office, thus leaving the tools of destruction available for when my enemy gets back into office....and he will get back into office. Just how do we stop the slow train to Buchenwald if we vote to keep the current engineer?
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:47:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 7:47:42 AM EDT by Bartholomew_Roberts]
Not me. I think it's still possible to do this within the framework of the Constitution
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I think it is entirely possible; but I don't see how you are going to do it by signaling to your elected leaders that you will continue to elect them even when they ignore that framework. Its like the old "This hurts me more than it does you" line a father might give during a whupping. Even if it hurts you in the short term, you have to show that there are unacceptable costs associated with bad behavior. Dishing out that punishment may cause pain and problems; but not dishing it out certainly will cause more of both in the long term. I certainly understand your fears on the subject; but I don't understand why you are blaming the potential voters instead of the people responsible. I've done everything I can to let my elected representatives know what the minimal requirements are to get my vote. They know long before the election what they have to do to get reelected. If they make the calculation that they don't need my vote and bail on me, how would it be my fault that they don't get reelected? All I can say is that I've made up my mind pretty firmly on the subject. Those who want to see Republicans in the White House at any cost would be well-advised to write the Republicans and let them know that they need to play ball on this issue if they are that concerned that my vote or the votes of like-minded people will make a difference in 2004.
Do you honestly believe that his going along with the AWB and your voting for him is going to open the flood gates for the Republicans to start with their own gun control legislation?
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Do you honestly believe that giving Bush a pass on the AW ban will not encourage the Republicans to crawfish in the future? Do you want the Republicans looking to a successful 2004 election the next time a post-Columbine situation crops up? Or do you want them to see the consistent failure of gun control to get people elected we have seen in the last ten years?
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:52:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: If GWB signs the new AWB Bill, and you don't vote for him, and he then loses to a VIRULENTLY anti-gun Democrat, who then signs a Complete Semi-Auto Ban Bill.... ...and an Anti-Handgun Ownership Bill ...and a Mandatory Gun Registration Bill ...and decides that the way to win the war on terrorism is to admit America is at fault, and try to make the Arabs like us... Will you be pleased?
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Yes, it's better than having a milquetoast for president. I'd prefer a Stalin though. Let's get this shit over with one way or the other...
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You prove my thesis. You actually want revolution, because you believe the Constitution is being trampled. Yet you believe we will be free after such a mess? You are either naive, or suicidal. Your juvenile concept of freedom is anarchy. You are like many Libertarians. Selfish, self-indulgent, impatient, angry, and childish in your desires to "get this shit over with one way or the other...". If you had your way, this country would be doomed.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:53:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:55:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: If GWB signs the new AWB Bill, and you don't vote for him, and he then loses to a VIRULENTLY anti-gun Democrat, who then signs a Complete Semi-Auto Ban Bill.... ...and an Anti-Handgun Ownership Bill ...and a Mandatory Gun Registration Bill ...and decides that the way to win the war on terrorism is to admit America is at fault, and try to make the Arabs like us... Will you be pleased?
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Yes, it's better than having a milquetoast for president. I'd prefer a Stalin though.
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Proof positive that you are a complete idiot.
Let's get this shit over with one way or the other...
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Tell you what, Mr. Tough Guy. If you have such a hard-on for revolution, if you believe so strongly in that "water the tree of liberty with blood" thing, and GWB signs a new AWB, go ahead and take a shot at him. Go on! Take him out! Take one for the cause! Be a man! C'mon.......What are you waiting for. Hell, even the dolts at DUh would love you! Let's go! Show us what a ballsy guerilla you are! Teach us a lesson in Constitutional liberty and the Defense of Rights! No? I didn't think so....
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:59:33 AM EDT
Bart, Basically I think that it stinks that the Republicans don't all see it my way. I wish they would, because I think our rights are being whittled away. But I also see the world for what it is. And to wish for revolution is to wish for the death of our nation. Anyone who thinks we'll be better off afterwards is a fool. I think they're bitter and angry, and wish to throw a tantrum. Think about it. Those who want to [b]"get this shit over with one way or the other..."[/b], claim that they value freedom and the Constitution. But do they really? Anyone with a brain knows that such a violent revolt would result in the end of our nation and the Constitution. Anarchy is not freedom, it's hell. Those who fantasize for such a future are sad, miserable people.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:04:34 AM EDT
From WhiteHouse.gov:
Another thing, on another subject. The NRA, Charleton Heston has left. Many are wondering about a statement that was said that the assault weapons ban will not continue once it expires. The administration has said something different. How is this meshing with a group that is friend to the Bush administration? MR. FLEISCHER: I think the administration is already on record about the assault weapon ban. The President has said that he supports the current assault weapons ban, [red]and he would support the reauthorization of the current assault weapons ban.[/red] Q So the NRA is just out in left field then? MR. FLEISCHER: The President approaches every issue on the merits of the issue. Sometimes he agrees with different people on different issues, but I think when it comes to virtually all the issues that have been presented, the President has strong agreement with the National Rifle Association. The President's position on the current assault weapons ban is known.
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While I strongly disagree with him on the essence of the statement, does this strike anyone as lukewarm support for a new ban, at best? I still have the nagging suspicion that all this is simply an exercise in testing the waters. Perhaps he IS sending a signal to Congress to kill such a ban before it gets to him while still coddling the Soccer Moms (an unfortunate reality when dealing within the sleazy world of politics). The best thing we can do is to continue to flood the White House and Congress with our e-mails, faxes, phone calls, and letters. Let them know we are here, and WILL vote for someone else IN THE PRIMARY. However, for us to vote for a third party member, or to just sit the election out, will be akin to our walking down to DNC HQ and turning in ALL of our guns.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:11:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Well, I guess the 72% who (at this point) are saying "No F#$King Way!" will be the first to pop bottles of champagne the night that Hillary wins the election. I'm sure you will be SO happy when HER radical anti-gun agenda gets pressed into reality!
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At least there will be a clear line drawn eh?? Bush will sign antigun legislation, so will clinton. What's the difference!
Oh, yes! You'll all talk big about "voting from the rooftops" and "from my cold dead hands", but you will stand by and let the party who will openly, aggressively, and proudly rape your rights win the election [red]because the other party does something (albeit foolish) to stay in power,[/red] which is more to our interests than the alternative.
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I take my Constitution a little more seriously than that. You're saying vote republican, they'll trash the constitution a little less than the other guy........Nice move.
One-issue voters are idiots, no matter what side they're on. Flame away. But if GW loses the election because you assholes sat on your hands, I expect to see you all volunteering to hand your weapons in the day the DemoncRAT takes the oath. Oh, yeah, and I'll not want to hear a PEEP of complaint from any of you.... P.S. - Has it occurred to any of you holier-than-thou RKBA-purists that it will be EASIER to coinvince the Congress and the President NOT to support a new ban or additional laws if OUR guys are there? ...or would you rather stand by and later take your chances with President H. Klinton, VP DiFi, Senate Majority Leader Schumer, and Speaker Conyers? [b]WAKE THE FUCK UP, FOR GOD'S SAKE![/b]
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This president, and the republican congress have already passed and signed unconstitutional legislation. Bush signed campaign finance while saying it violated the 1st amendment. He says he will sign the unconstitutional AWB. That's the first 2 amendments out of 10. How many do they break before [b]YOU WAKE THE FUCK UP, FOR GOD'S SAKE![/b]......[;D]
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:17:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:20:05 AM EDT
Althought the Campaign finance reform law was ruled unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court, I didn't hear that the AWB was ruled unconstitutional. Did I miss something?
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:23:25 AM EDT
Cincinnatus - we absolutely agree on the revolution thing. History suggests that more tyrrany is the usual outcome of such events, not less.
While I strongly disagree with him on the essence of the statement, does this strike anyone as lukewarm support for a new ban, at best?
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I think it is politics and nothing more. Bush left himself a lot of leeway with that statement. It is also worth noting that the House bill goes way beyond the current one and gives him a handy out.
The best thing we can do is to continue to flood the White House and Congress with our e-mails, faxes, phone calls, and letters.
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Absolutely; but if he signs it I am voting for someone else in the general election too - and he needs to know that so he can make the right choice. Casting a vote against him in the primary has no real world conseqeunces and doesn't send an effective message to the Republican party. The good thing is that we can easily avoid the issue entirely by writing letters and killing this bill in the House.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:29:53 AM EDT
If Bush agrees to renew the AWB then I WILL NOT vote to reelect him in 2004. Period. I will make my vote for either a liberterian or some other 3rd party/independent candidate. As far as congress is concerned, I will see who votes for what and I will see what all of the congressmen and senators actually did with their recorded votes. If any congressmen from my district or if any senator from my state votes to renew the AWB then that congressman or senator WILL NOT get my vote either. Period. The GOP is playin' with fire here. If they turn their backs on the gunowners then thier miscalculations and betrayal could lead to an ending of the GOP as we know it. A betrayal of the gunowners by the GOP could be THE CATALYST which finally spurs the formation of a MAJOR third political party. Up to this point, most third/independent parties have been a nuisance for the GOP and the Dems but this one issue could change all of that. If the GOP loses its conservative base then it will die. And the GOP didn't do itself any favors either by helping pass the campaign finance reform and the Patriot Act laws. A Patriot II or a renewal of the AWB could very well be the final nails in the GOP coffin. One good thing about having the renewal come up for an official, recorded vote is that it will help us all see, once and for all, who is really on our side and who is just trying to play us like a fiddle. GOP, be very careful on the land upon which you are trying to tread right now.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:38:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: If GWB signs the new AWB Bill, and you don't vote for him, and he then loses to a VIRULENTLY anti-gun Democrat, who then signs a Complete Semi-Auto Ban Bill.... ...and an Anti-Handgun Ownership Bill ...and a Mandatory Gun Registration Bill ...and decides that the way to win the war on terrorism is to admit America is at fault, and try to make the Arabs like us... Will you be pleased?
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Yes, it's better than having a milquetoast for president. I'd prefer a Stalin though. Let's get this shit over with one way or the other...
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[red]You prove my thesis.[/red] You actually want revolution, because you believe the Constitution is being trampled. Yet you believe we will be free after such a mess? You are either naive, or suicidal. Your juvenile concept of freedom is anarchy. You are like many Libertarians. Selfish, self-indulgent, impatient, angry, and childish in your desires to "get this shit over with one way or the other...". If you had your way, this country would be doomed.
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Before you get too carried away with the name-calling my NEW YORK friend, let me give you a clue. One, I have NEVER said I am a libertarian, nor advocated voting for one. Two, I don't suppose it's crossed your mind, but isn't it quite possible that rather than revolution, such events may yet awaken the people to their plight?? Especially if such as us were educating them to their DUTIES under our Constitution. YOU advocate voting for the oppressor. Read history.....
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:48:16 AM EDT
No, YOU advocate electing the oppressor. You advocate actions that would put a Democrat in office. You don't see the difference between Republicans and Democrats, fine. But many of us actually do see the difference. You are so myopic in you single issue view, that you'd throw it all away.
I don't suppose it's crossed your mind, but isn't it quite possible that rather than revolution, such events may yet awaken the people to their plight?? Especially if such as us were educating them to their DUTIES under our Constitution.
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You're kidding? You want our rights to be taken away, to show the people that having our rights taken away is bad? Then you think we'll just get them back? Once they're gone, they're gone. Don't pretend now that it isn't revolt that you truly hunger for. You're too transparent.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:50:29 AM EDT
I have a better idea. Do a search of topic authors for Sniper_408 for the last 30 days. Then read the results from your search. Then ignore the [:K] Abortion, who shot Kennedy, gays, NRA screw's one of it's own, GWB and the AWB........oh yeah all the classic pot stirring topics. You decide.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:51:13 AM EDT
BTW, one thing everybody needs to remember is that we don't need control of the white house to slow this train down. We just need to maintain control of the House of Representatives and build upon what we already have in the U.S. Senate. There are so many geniune pro gunners in the House of Representatives right now that all of this renewal talk may all be moot anyway because an AWB renewal may not make it out the House of Representatives at all right now. The only reason we even have an AWB in the first place is because our side didn't control congress back when this thing came up for a vote the first time around.If we maintain our control of the HoR and try to gain more control of the US Senate then much of this legislation can be halted in its tracks. Think positively about this folks. We ain't lost yet and the momentum is still on OUR side. A renewal still has to make it out of BOTH SIDES of Congress and a renewal has to be passed by (both sides of) the whole Congress not just by a few in some select subcommitee. The chances of THAT happening right now is very slim. Not impossible but slim, nonetheless. Keep your chins up guys. OUR SIDE is still winning. Make your opinions known but don't lose hope because we haven't lost yet.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:51:54 AM EDT
It is obvious that the single-issue crowd will not budge on this issue, and they will be dragged kicking and screaming into another Democratic administration. I will admit that I admire their dedication to the Constitution. In that we all agree. Where I part ways is that if the other guy does not agree 100% with me, not only am I going to abandon HIM, but I'm going to provide tacit assistance to the guy that DISagrees with me 100% of the time. Sorry, but that's suicide, and completely out of phase with reality. Yes, I'd love to live in a truly COnstitutional system, but the problem is that what you consider Constitutional may be slightly different than I consider Constitutional. Bush may not like AW's. I do. We both believe in the RKBA, albeit to different levels. I'd still vote for him over someone who claims that there is NO RKBA AT ALL. So be it. Vote however the hell you want, but when Hillary is flying in the fron cabin of Air Force One again, you'll have only yourselves to blame, and I won't want to hear you whine. Let's hope to hell the Congress has balls and the President is just bluffing...
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:53:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ElevenO: BTW, one thing everybody needs to remember is that we don't need control of the white house to slow this train down. We just need to maintain control of the House of Representatives and build upon what we already have in the U.S. Senate. There are so many geniune pro gunners in the House of Representatives right now that all of this renewal talk may all be moot anyway because an AWB renewal may not make it out the House of Representatives at all right now. The only reason we even have an AWB in the first place is because our side didn't control congress back when this thing came up for a vote the first time around.If we maintain our control of the HoR and try to gain more control of the US Senate then much of this legislation can be halted in its tracks. Think positively about this folks. We ain't lost yet and the momentum is still on OUR side. A renewal still has to make it out of BOTH SIDES of Congress and a renewal has to be passed by (both sides of) the whole Congress not just by a few in some select subcommitee. The chances of THAT happening right now is very slim. Not impossible but slim, nonetheless. Keep your chins up guys. OUR SIDE is still winning. Make your opinions known but don't lose hope because we haven't lost yet.
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Well said. Welcome to the board, BTW.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:56:13 AM EDT
How is it, that a president who does not veto a bill that has been passed by the body elected by the people; a bill that if signed, will make you any worse off than now you were for the last nine years, is going to motivate you to vote for a libertarian who has no chance in hell of getting elected, essentially throwing your vote away? Also, how exactly is the reinstitution of the AWB unconstitutional? I don't like it. But I think a constitutional challenge would have been made in the last 8 years
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 9:00:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 9:04:56 AM EDT by Kaesan]
Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts: As much as a Kerry or Lieberman might do to restrict guns, it won't be anywhere near the damage we will do to RKBA by showing the Republicans they can screw us at will and we will still vote for them.
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I know the President isn't going to carry RI, so it is an easy choice for me to say NO. I bring up the AWB issue every time the RNC or NRA call me for donations. My theory is, if we can't [b]block[/b] AWB renewal with Republican control of the House, Senate, and White House, then the cause is lost. As for the NRA, while I just renewed my annual membership, I have my doubts about their commitment to blocking the AWB... It may turn out to be a brilliant political strategy to [i]say[/i] he would sign a renewal, while fully expecting the bill will never reach his desk, but the alarm and rage caused by this tactic will prevent many core supporters from contributing cash or time to his campaign.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 9:11:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sydney7629: Althought the Campaign finance reform law was ruled unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court, I didn't hear that the AWB was ruled unconstitutional. Did I miss something?
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Allow me to suggest that you read the 2nd Amendment. The AWB regulates/bans, exactly the type of weapon a militia would use. They would be on firmer legal ground doing it to hunting firearms. When all three branch's of govt. are violating the constitution, and one CANNOT get a case to the court, for a "proper" redress. What is one left with?
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