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Posted: 11/10/2002 5:17:50 PM EDT
I was out at TheRedGoat's place today and we were shooting some of my machineguns out on his range. Nothing hot and heavy, we just ran a few mags through each and went back to his party barn to eat some chili. There was a couple and their kids still down there shooting .22's, and I left my guns on the bench, the M11's in a case and the Ruger cooling off on the table. We had probably been sitting there eatin and bullshittin for at least and hour when a game warden comes walking through his gate holding the case with the MACs and the Mini-14. When I saw him I think my exact words were, "What the fuck is he doing with my guns." I told him they were mine and showed him the paperwork. I think that he read every single line on all four forms while asking me questions like, "Who stamped this date here?", "Is this your signature?" and "Are the serial numbers listed on these forms?". Then he asked me, "What's this" and I told him it was a suppressor. He acted like he didn't know what I was talking about so I said, "It's a silencer" and then he got kind of excited and said "Really?", like he'd never seen one before. The whole scene was pretty tense with me, TheRedGoat and Jarhead all just standing there being silent while he looked through all the paperwork and checked every serial number. After he was satisfied that everything was in order he looked me dead in the eye with all sincerity and asked, "Do you have a criminal history?" at which point we all busted out laughing. I told him "no sir". and we were through. He ended up staying around for a little while eating some wild hog and drinking a Dr. Pepper until TheRedGoat offered him a ride back to his truck that he had left behind when he snuck up on us in the woods. That's the first time I had every had any interaction with a game warden. Never had a hunting or fishing license checked my whole life and these were the last circumstances I'd have expected to meet one under. I never thought I'd get busted for having fun. All in all it was a good day. I made some new friends, shot a little and ate some good food. Thanks to TheRedGoat for having me out and feeding me. Now, how many of yall would try sneaking up through the woods to investigate reports of machinegun fire? Not to mention, all by yourself. He turned out to be a nice enough guy, even though he looked pretty determined that somebody was going to jail when he first showed up.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:23:01 PM EDT
Shoulda offered to let him rip off a mag through the suppressed one.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:23:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: Now, how many of yall would try sneaking up through the woods to investigate reports of machinegun fire? Not to mention, all by yourself. He turned out to be a nice enough guy, even though he looked pretty determined that somebody was going to jail when he first showed up.
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Most cops aren't terribly imaginative, so I can see that happening very easily. The big question is, how is it that your weapons were out of your sight? Man, maybe I am paranoid, but no Fing way would I let my toys anywhere I couldn't see them. Good thing he didn't decide to "confiscate and lose" them. I wish I had some wild pork sausage right now... You just said that to make envy you didn't ya?
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:29:50 PM EDT
ummmm, is this private property ?? ummmm, what the fuck business is it of a GAME WARDENS what guns you have if there is no game theft to be investigated ???? ummmm, TELL HIM TO FUCK RIGHT OFF !!!!!!! FUCK HIM !!!!!
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:34:29 PM EDT
SPECTRE: Calm down, dude! First of all, game wardens are allowed on private property (at least in Texas). He has the right to investigate because there are laws against the number of rounds in a firearm when hunting. Obviously, these guys weren't hunting. But it is in his jurisdiction to investigate...he IS an LEO after all. My hat's off to him for investigating, and once being satisfied everything was legal, to not be a jerk about it.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:34:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2002 5:35:28 PM EDT by GunnyG]
[url]http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/admin/about_us/lemain.htm[/url] “Texas Game Wardens are responsible for enforcement of the Parks and Wildlife Code, all TPW regulations, [b]the Texas Penal Code[/b] and selected statutes and regulations applicable to clean air and water, hazardous materials and human health. Wardens fulfill these responsibilities through educating the public about various laws and regulations, preventing violations by conducting high visibility patrols, and [b]apprehending and arresting violators.[/b]"(emphasis added by me) Spectre: they are commissioned Law Enforcement Officers, with state wide jurisdiction.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:35:38 PM EDT
Yeah, what the hell was he doing on private property? I'd have told him to leave immediately.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:35:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By soylent_green: Most cops aren't terribly imaginative, so I can see that happening very easily. The big question is, how is it that your weapons were out of your sight? Man, maybe I am paranoid, but no Fing way would I let my toys anywhere I couldn't see them. Good thing he didn't decide to "confiscate and lose" them. I wish I had some wild pork sausage right now... You just said that to make envy you didn't ya?
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Naa....they were still within my sight, I just didn't have my eye on them. The only people down there were a guy and his wife and their three young kids. The only way in and out of there was by the house unless you went hiking through the woods like the game warden did. I wouldn't have let him take the guns, he would have had to taken me to jail with them. My sister is an attorney. I would have had lots of money for new guns. [:)]
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:36:15 PM EDT
I would have went ballistic if he had pick up my weapons and came strolling in asking who owns these.!!!! OMFG I cant believe it!!!
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:38:23 PM EDT
Did you offer to punch a hole in his fuckin face? LOL Just kiddin!!
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:41:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer: Did you offer to punch a hole in his fuckin face? LOL Just kiddin!!
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No, not this time. He had all of my guns, plus his own on his hip. That put me at a [b]slight[/b] disadvantage.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:41:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2002 5:44:55 PM EDT by SPECTRE]
So you're telling me that in TX a game warden can come onto your private property to snoop around whenever he wants without a warrant ?? And what right did he have to touch your property ?? why did'nt he come over and ask to speak with you ? So if a cop feels like coming into your house and taking your guns to ask you about them, thats ok ??
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:44:16 PM EDT
Can you provide me with a little more ID on the Game Warden? Name? Was he TPWD, Fed or what?
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:45:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:46:15 PM EDT
In a lot of states the game warden has more authority than a state police officer. Not only can he bust you for any game violations but he can enforce every other law on the books as well. Game wardens can go where ever they want for whatever reason they feel like. To them the term private property means nothing.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:47:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: ummmm, is this private property ?? ummmm, what the fuck business is it of a GAME WARDENS what guns you have if there is no game theft to be investigated ???? ummmm, TELL HIM TO FUCK RIGHT OFF !!!!!!! FUCK HIM !!!!!
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Spectre, Just a couple of questions for ya. At what point do you tell the GW to FUCK RIGHT OFF? Do you tell him as soon as you see him? Do you wait until he asks for paperwork or perhaps when he is finished verifying the paperwork? I just havent had enough practice telling LEO types to FUCK RIGHT OFF. It just never seems to get that far?
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:48:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Arock: Can you provide me with a little more ID on the Game Warden? Name? Was he TPWD, Fed or what?
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TDPW, I can't remember his name. He was a short little black guy with freckles. If I would have thought about it I would have taken some digital pictures of him with the machineguns and paperwork.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:50:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Spectre, that is exactly what he is telling you. In NY too. They may not enter a domicile without a warrant, but property is another thing. In NY, they may search your car without a warrant if they suspect poaching or other violation of the Environmental Conservation Law.
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Well hell then !!!, I guess the JBT's have been doing it all wrong. What the JBT's need is a whole legion of game wardens who can search cars and enter private property without warrants, all they gotta do is claim they saw someone molesting a fucking squirrel or something. We need a game warden SWAT team !!!
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:52:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dave223:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: ummmm, is this private property ?? ummmm, what the fuck business is it of a GAME WARDENS what guns you have if there is no game theft to be investigated ???? ummmm, TELL HIM TO FUCK RIGHT OFF !!!!!!! FUCK HIM !!!!!
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Spectre, Just a couple of questions for ya. At what point do you tell the GW to FUCK RIGHT OFF? Do you tell him as soon as you see him? Do you wait until he asks for paperwork or perhaps when he is finished verifying the paperwork? I just havent had enough practice telling LEO types to FUCK RIGHT OFF. It just never seems to get that far?
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I think the first thing I would say is whay are you here and do you see any game violations, ask for his search warrant and then place a call to my lawyer. Thats my legalese for FUCK OFF !!!
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:53:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:54:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2002 5:57:36 PM EDT by Arock]
If any of us have contact with "Game Warden" type LE either state or federal I'd appreciate if you'd IM me what details you may have.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:56:24 PM EDT
I was with a bunch of guys, one owned a houseboat that we were on. Multiple full-auto and various other toy's. Relaxing when the Dept. of fish and wildlife (DOFW) came up in their boat. DOFW,hollered out, "we had some reports of automatic weapon fire, you the guy's?" "Yup", said in unison DOFW, "Got paperwork?" "Yup", again in unison (not my voice though, I haven't got enough money yet [:(] ) DOFW, "OK have a good day", and off he went! It's good to live in a free state [:)]
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:56:24 PM EDT
ahhh forget it, I don't give a shit and since it does'nt seem to bother anyone else that this JBT, errr, I mean game warden just does as he pleases on private property, then who cares.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:57:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Arock: If any of us have contact with "Game Warden" type LE either state or federal IM me what details you may have.
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What's this all about Arock? Oh, and I bet TheGoat remembers that guy's name better than I do. I'm terrible with names, but I never forget a face.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 5:59:43 PM EDT
Thanks Pony I'll check with TheGoat.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:09:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2002 6:10:09 PM EDT by Naked80]
I think the key here is probable cause. Why would someone be hunting and shoot more than 5 rounds at one animal? Even with a semi auto the first shot is good, second maybe, third iffy, 4th go play the lotto for better odds. After all the FA fire, which most likely wasn't less than a hundred rounds, one would get the idea that it was target shooting. His investigation of this matter on private land is questionable, IMO.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:15:21 PM EDT
Yeah, what the hell was he doing on private property? I'd have told him to leave immediately.
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That is not the right approach at all. LEO's have to do their jobs... Alright, and everybody and everything being legit (FORM4's,etc) then Jarhead, Ponyboy, and RedGoat just won one for the good guys. Now see the LEO walks off and thinks to himself. You know maybe maybe some people have it all wrong. Hurrah for JH,PB,RG.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:15:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:21:24 PM EDT
Isn't it funny how we delude ourselves about rights and liberties, but when someone directly circumvents or ignores them, it's all "Aww, shucks, he was just doing his job, no harm done." Hell yeah there's harm done--the guy will go and do it again next time, too. I keep encountering this belligerent attitude with cops. Either they're out to save the world or out to make a name for themselves by cracking the big case. Never seems to matter whose rights get trampled in the process, either. Owning class III stuff must be a blast since nearly every time you go out shooting someplace, a cop shows up because your suspicious noise was reported by some mindless do-gooder who saw one too many Dateline episodes about street criminals or terrorists and their weapons of choice. Free country, my ass!
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:27:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Well naked your opinion is wrong. The only justification they need is that illegal poaching could be going on.
How do you really feel? Get off the fence. How many rounds fired does it take to realize that it's not poaching? When you have a few FA firearms with smoking barrels with people continueing to shoot in the same vicinity, WHEN does a sensible person realize it is recreational shooting?
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:28:35 PM EDT
A question for full auto types, How often do you get questioned or harrassed for shooting full auto?
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:30:33 PM EDT
I kinda agree with Spectre,I mean I didn't know that game wardens had that kind of power. I do find it sorta funny that he was sneaking threw the woods,seems like a good way to catch a stray bullet,or otherwise get yourself shot. If they do infact have the power to go anywhere,I wonder why he didn't just drive up and ask what all the comotion was about.After all its pretty obvious you guys are just burning up some ammo ,and not illegaly hunting something. Whats with all the sneaky shit?
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:31:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Isn't it funny how we delude ourselves about rights and liberties, but when someone directly circumvents or ignores them, it's all "Aww, shucks, he was just doing his job, no harm done." Hell yeah there's harm done--the guy will go and do it again next time, too. I keep encountering this belligerent attitude with cops. Either they're out to save the world or out to make a name for themselves by cracking the big case. Never seems to matter whose rights get trampled in the process, either. Owning class III stuff must be a blast since nearly every time you go out shooting someplace, a cop shows up because your suspicious noise was reported by some mindless do-gooder who saw one too many Dateline episodes about street criminals or terrorists and their weapons of choice. Free country, my ass!
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How would you have handled PBs situation? Honestly.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:33:59 PM EDT
I think I read the initial post correctly that you guys were firing off machine guns, atleast a few magazines? That alone would raise my suspicion if I were an LEO of any type. Imagine walking through the woods (maybe he was there checking a report of illegal hunting or something??) and all the sudden you hear a full auto burst...I would duck first then check out the situation. I only say that because my dad has been a game warden for 26 years and he has to do alot of "covert" type work, in the woods and stuff checking reports of illegal activity. It was smart of you to have the paper work with you. I'm glad everything worked out o.k. In contrary to some of the other posts telling you to tell him to fuck off or whatever, you done the right thing. IMHO, showing disrespect to a LEO just because you may have to answer some questions is stupid.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:35:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:38:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001:
Yeah, what the hell was he doing on private property? I'd have told him to leave immediately.
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That is not the right approach at all. LEO's have to do their jobs... Alright, and everybody and everything being legit (FORM4's,etc) then Jarhead, Ponyboy, and RedGoat just won one for the good guys. Now see the LEO walks off and thinks to himself. You know maybe maybe some people have it all wrong. Hurrah for JH,PB,RG.
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More like.......Hurrah for the JBT's !!!!! Hurrah for the loss of our rights !!!! Hurrah for the fact that everyone seems to think that this type of action perfectly fine. yes, hurrah [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:39:02 PM EDT
[b]Zip-a-dee-doo-dah, zip-a-dee-ay My, oh my what a wonderful day! Plenty of sunshine heading my way Zip-a-dee-doo-dah, zip-a-dee-ay Mister Bluebird on my shoulder... [/b] What I want to know is who doesn't know the Game Wardens who work in their districts? [:D] Ask me who the Games Wardens have been in the Crowell-Quanah area for, say, the last thirty years, and I'll tell you their names, their wives' names, what positions their sons play in either football or baseball in high school, their preferred adult beverages, and their girlfriends' sexual proclivities! [:D] Ain't just nosey, it's just part of my routine. A routine that I inherited from the past Hun-owners of the Farm. These dedicated men protect our lands from city slickers gone rogue, interlopers, poachers, thieves, drug couriers, smugglers, and the general backwash of humanity! The current Game Warden in my neck of the woods has a key to the front gate of the Hun Farm, an open invitation to come to the cabin and make himself a pot of coffee, and, if I'm in the vicinity, a steak dinner at the Crowell Steak House! As a matter of fact, I have dozens of lovely photos of him having his way with all sorts of Class 3 weapons at the Hun Farm! Why? [b]Just think what he does for a living![/b] He purposefully comes upon [b]armed men[/b], sometimes in the dead of night (when you and I are curled up in fetal positions in our comfy beds), and then and there enforces the game laws that other men, elected by those of us curled up in fetal positions, have enacted. Sometimes those game laws may make sense, sometimes not, but the end result might very well be the imposition of hefty cash fines and the inevitable forfeiture of granddaddy's prized hunting rifle! Now, alone in the woods at night, with but a single individual between that poacher and a possible huge monetary fine, and the loss of a cherished weapon, how comfortable would [u]you[/u] be to be that single individual? [b][/b] [i][b]Skeered[/b][/i] you, didn't I? Eric The([:D]WelcomeToTexas!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:42:47 PM EDT
[img]http://members.cox.net/azcop/images/chill_pill.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:43:24 PM EDT
Sound to me like everything came out very well. The Warden did his job, and may have made a few friends to boot. If I understand the law correctly, and I am in no way a lawyer type, he was justified to do the investigation. A meal and drink sounds like a new friend.[:)] But the Texas crew will so that to you!! RedGoat, Ponyboy and the others, did you at any time feel threatened by the warden? Just curious, but I have had contact with quite a few of them in Texas, both in my work and in my play, and have never been disappointed in thier behavior. Sad I can't say the same with some of the other agencies around. Woud be very curious to find the law on thier being able to enter private lands. I think dwellings are off limits, but lands are not. Would love to find out for sure.... fullclip
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:49:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:53:04 PM EDT
If y'all'd like, I can arrange for you to meet the fine fellow who is the Game Warden in the District that the Hun Farm falls in. He's a fine fellow. Former military. Married with kids. Helluva guy! [b]But he brooks no BULLSHIT when it comes to the game laws![/b] He wouldn't let me get by with it, and he damn sure wouldn't let some Johnny Jake-Leg get away with it either! Once you get to know one Game Warden, you'll get the idea of what they're like, and will never have a problem with them again. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the Game Warden that came up on [b]TheRedGoat's[/b] place was a rookie! Otherwise, he wouldn't have gone through the BS about the Class 3. My Game Warden has never even asked to see any of the paperworks on any Class 3 stuff. You know why? He knows [u]me[/u]. [b]And that, my friends, is how it's done in Old West Texas![/b] YeeeHaaawww!!!! Eric The(Gawd,ILoveThisState!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:53:09 PM EDT
Eric, always depend on you to say it better and with style.[:)] Besides, where would we be without any laws? I don't want big-brothers boot on my neck, but I like his help in keeping the riff-raff away. There is a fine line he has to walk. We just have to help keep them on the line... fullclip
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 6:54:56 PM EDT
I know how TRG's range is set up and I don't think I would try to sneak up on someone coming through the woods while guns were being fired. [:D]
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 7:02:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2002 7:06:22 PM EDT by jrzy]
SPECTRE If it means anything to you ,I agree with you 100 %,I don't care where you live ,whatever state it is ,no one can search your property open land included without benifit of a warrant,PERIOD! Gamewardens (some) think they are J.edgar Hoover, well some of them might wear a dress.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 7:05:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 7:05:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2002 7:08:08 PM EDT by Ken226]
A game warden is like any other state cop, no more power and no less. He doesn't get to suspend the constitution to make his job easier. In order to come onto private property without a warrant, the same 4th amendment exceptions apply that apply to a warrantless arrest (the officer, agent, trooper, warden or citizen making a citizens arrest) must have probably cause to believe that a crime has been or is being commited and that evidence will be removed or destroyed if he were to leave to get a warrant. The rules change if the private property is considered "public access", in which case the officer may go onto the property without probable cause or a warrant, the same as any other member of the public. If a police officer goes onto public access private property such as a public shooting range, a mall, convenience store etc, and has reasonable suspicion to believe that a crime has been or is being commited, he may then investigate. If when investigating , he determines that probable cause exists, he may arrest without a warrant.
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 7:17:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 7:18:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Yes, you can poach on your own property, meaning you can be guilty of poaching on your own land, not that it is allowed.
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Even those who have who have Nuisance Licenses?
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 7:20:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 7:21:09 PM EDT
I own and shoot machine guns. Upon several ocasions I have been contacted, on private property, by LEOs. To date, all have been polite and non agressive. None has EVER looked at my paperwork, and I offer that opportunity. I even carry a credit card sized copy of all my form 4's in my wallet. They don't even bother to check anymore. They tell the busybodies who call EVERYTIME that I am safe and legal and to mind their own business. A game warden was murdered less than 10 miles from my house by a jerk over a simple violation. Shot him with a shotgun then held off those who wanted to take him to the hospital so GW would bleed to death. I know his daughter and arranged to have her late father's duty weapon returned to her after many years. She then loaned it to a museum that has a display about the incident. I still find it hard to believe that some MORON would murder a GW over a misdemeanor hunting violation!!
Link Posted: 11/10/2002 7:26:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Ken, with all due respect I would suggest you do not know NY laws. You are incorrect. EnCon officers and Rangers in NYS have full authority to enter private land at any time. I worked at the State DEC for several years and know many of their officers, including their Chief. An EnCon officer may also order you to open your trunk without a warrant and if you refuse to comply may open it for you without one. The powers of EnCon officers and Rangers far exceed that of most State Troopers, don't believe me? Ask one. I have long said that the last cop I ever want to run afoul with is an EnCon officer.
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Well shit !!! what the hell are we wasting all our time with our other JBT's when we have the best rights infringment group in the business right under our noses !! How about this, forget funding the ATF, FBI, CIA, customs, border patrol, state, locals etc.... Those sallys are fucking lightweights !!!! what do we need them for when we have the GAME WARDENS !!! out saving us from evil squirrel poachers by shitting all over the constitution. I know exactly who needs to be in charge of homeland security now.
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