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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/6/2002 3:17:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 3:19:58 PM EST by liberty86]
A little quote from Julius;
Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch, and the blood boils with hate, and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizens, infused with fear, and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know?? For this is what I have done, and I am Caesar!
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For those of you who had a govt. education, Julius was the Roman who did away with the Republic, and had himself declared Emperor.... I submit, this has been the pattern of most of our presidents for the last 100 years. Always some "war". Always more power in the hands of the executive and bureaucrats in D.C. Drugs, poverty, depression, Germany, Japan, Vietnam Arabs, Guns, Crime, Drunks, you name it. They all take a little, (or a lot), of freedom and liberty. When was the last time they gave it back??
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:19:20 PM EST
So true.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:22:43 PM EST
Yep.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:32:30 PM EST
It is only the natural order of politics. Whenever a human being is granted the power over all he is instantly corrupted. Time and again we see this happen, all through history. Is ultimate power the greatest narcotic ever to stalk the earth?, apparently so. If you apply this to George the Younger I would have to say that he is the victim of his surroundings and his non-elected advisors/officials. The people that come to power without ever having to be elected by the people are the most corrupt of all and the ones whose grip on their position is the strongest. Look at the bureaucrats who are charged with writing the regulations that stem from the laws passed by congress. They don't answer to anyone and continue to hold their positions through multiple administrations. When government becomes so large and unwieldy these vermin are in their glory as they are isolated from any retribution. Shrink the goverment, shut off the money and maybe the power brokers will be put out off business. Rambling rant is now completed. Stepped-init
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:53:46 PM EST
Boy that Ceasar fella was one smart dude.When'd ya say he was president?
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:58:42 PM EST
yeah buddy we are losing our freedom due to wars and such. Hey, wait a minute, the bill of rights didnt even apply to the states until after WWII. Wasn't Caesar the head monkey in one of the Planet of the Apes movies?
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:10:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 5:11:51 PM EST by anti-gov-tinfoil-man]
"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?" -G.W. Bush "There ought to limits to freedom" -G.W. Bush
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:14:02 PM EST
Without war it can be difficult to keep those trade routes open the Libertarians contend don't need to be protected because other nations will never violate them.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:32:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Avtomat: ... Wasn't Caesar the head monkey in one of the Planet of the Apes movies?
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[;D]
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 7:58:36 PM EST
yeah riiight your ceaser and My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 8:00:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 8:06:10 PM EST by Citabria7GCBC]
Originally Posted By liberty86: A little quote from Julius;
Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It emboldens the , just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch, and the boils with , and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizens, infused with fear, and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know?? For this is what I have done, and I am Caesar!
View Quote
For those of you who had a govt. education, Julius was the Roman who did away with the Republic, and had himself declared Emperor.... I submit, this has been the pattern of most of our presidents for the last 100 years. Always some "war". Always more power in the hands of the executive and bureaucrats in D.C. Drugs, poverty, depression, Germany, Japan, Vietnam Arabs, Guns, Crime, Drunks, you name it. They all take a little, (or a lot), of freedom and liberty. When was the last time they gave it back??
View Quote
i conqure with this statement and furthermore i will be taking this to my government and economics class starting on monday!
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 8:03:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86: They all take a little, (or a lot), of freedom and liberty. [red]When was the last time they gave it back??[/red]
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I got at tax rebate last year. Does that count? [:|]
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 8:05:05 PM EST
Beware the Ides of March
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 9:15:08 PM EST
just curious...where (book/publication) is the quote from?
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:15:05 AM EST
Keep this active! words to remember! BTT
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:05:57 AM EST
"the die is cast." julius caesar.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:05:55 PM EST
"Et tu, Brute"....[peep]
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:08:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By LongIslandShooter: just curious...where (book/publication) is the quote from?
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The play, Julius Caeser, by Shakespeare. I think. People have been quoting that a lot lately, about politicians manipulating patriotism for their own ends.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:08:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC: yeah riiight your ceaser and My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius.
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Dude!! You spelled Caesar wrong. It's really pronounced "say sar". woof woof.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:25:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By LongIslandShooter: just curious...where (book/publication) is the quote from?
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The play, Julius Caeser, by Shakespeare. I think. People have been quoting that a lot lately, about politicians manipulating patriotism for their own ends.
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Which is ironic, given that it was probably said not by Caesar but by an English playwright.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:38:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By LongIslandShooter: just curious...where (book/publication) is the quote from?
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The play, Julius Caeser, by Shakespeare. I think. People have been quoting that a lot lately, about politicians manipulating patriotism for their own ends.
View Quote
Which is ironic, given that it was probably said not by Caesar but by an English playwright.
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Well Shakespeare could write plays about politics better than anyone else. Half his plays were about politics. Or love. Or love and politics.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 10:46:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By mattja: Without war it can be difficult to keep those trade routes open the Libertarians contend don't need to be protected because other nations will never violate them.
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uh, huh. Just like all those wars fought over keeping trade routes open. Like...., uh..... There was.... let's see.... I'll think of one eventually!
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 4:40:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By mattja: Without war it can be difficult to keep those trade routes open the Libertarians contend don't need to be protected because other nations will never violate them.
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uh, huh. Just like all those wars fought over keeping trade routes open. Like...., uh..... There was.... let's see.... I'll think of one eventually!
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Wow, I am not surprised you can't remember any...you've shown an incredibly poor knowledge of history in the past.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 5:07:40 AM EST
How about the the trade route of Bosnia, Hersegovina, Yugoslavia to create the buffer zone between Europe and Russia in which to route the oil pipeline to western Europe from Afganistan which is being worked on as we type. Probably why the reports in Janes' Defense Weekly, the India Times and the Pakistani press last March, June and July of 2001 stated that we'd (the American military) be in Afganistan in October 2001. Does that count? Mike
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 7:32:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: Does that count?
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Nope, only wars ACTUALLY fought over trade count, not the ones you IMAGINE in your fever dreams were fought over trade.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 7:41:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By bigyeti: "Et tu, Brute"....[peep]
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"Ouch!" That's gonna get infected!"
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 1:14:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: Does that count?
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Nope, only wars ACTUALLY fought over trade count, not the ones you IMAGINE in your fever dreams were fought over trade.
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Pirates off the North African coast (Tunesia I think). Late 1700's, early 18's. Only one I can think of. No actual declaration of war.....
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 3:38:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By LongIslandShooter: just curious...where (book/publication) is the quote from?
View Quote
The play, Julius Caeser, by Shakespeare. I think. People have been quoting that a lot lately, about politicians manipulating patriotism for their own ends.
View Quote
I just read JC in English class, and it's DEFINITLY not from the play.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 12:50:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Wow, I am not surprised you can't remember any...you've shown an incredibly poor knowledge of history in the past.
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Look who's talking. Your knowledge of history and grasp of its lessons are sorely lacking. Still waiting for those wars. Care to name any?
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 3:00:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By libertyof76: Still waiting for those wars. Care to name any?
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Wasn't the war of 1812 basically about this? Weren't they boarding merchant vessels and forcing the crew into service in the royal navy?[:\]
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 5:57:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By libertyof76: Look who's talking. Your knowledge of history and grasp of its lessons are sorely lacking.
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No, that would be projection on your part. You've shown over and over that you know next to nothing about history and that what you do know you don't understand.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 6:22:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 6:52:20 AM EST by Cincinnatus]
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By mattja: Without war it can be difficult to keep those trade routes open the Libertarians contend don't need to be protected because other nations will never violate them.
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uh, huh. Just like all those wars fought over keeping trade routes open. Like...., uh..... There was.... let's see.... I'll think of one eventually!
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You moron.[:)] [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/bioPics/libertyof76.jpg[/img] The FIRST war America engaged in, after fighting for independence, was a war to keep trade routes open! The Barbary Pirates War, AKA the Tripolitan War... The FIRST. What do you think the line in the Marine's Hymn, "...to the shores of Tripoli", refers to? Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon, USMC, lead the invasion. Please Lib, study. [url]http://earlyamerica.com/review/2002_winter_spring/terrorism.htm[/url] It refers to the Barbary Pirates, and the war we fought with them. Jefferson was President at the time. You know, as in THOMAS Jefferson? [img]http://earlyamerica.com/review/2002_winter_spring/images/pirates.jpg[/img] Good God man! You really don't know much, huh?
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 6:43:38 AM EST
Look lib, I shouldn't HAVE to do this sort of legwork FOR you, but here goes: the Anglo-Dutch Wars fought between 1652 and 1684 World War One (one of the main causes of the war was rivalry over colonies) Recently, Angola has sent its troops into neighboring countries to control the trade routes for Angolan diamonds. The Gulf War, it could be argued, was fought to ensure that the trade routes for Middle Eastern oil were kept open. The French and Indian War was fought between the French and English for control of the fur trade in America. The Opium Wars were fought in China to keep the opium trade open. The Crusades, while also fought over religion, were fought to seize control of major trade routes of the day. In fact, prior to the 20th Century, the VAST MAJORITY of wars were fought to determine control of trade routes. Anyone with even a MODICUM of historical knowledge would be aware of this. The ones I just listed for you were off the top of my head. I could probably come up with many many more with even a little bit of research. Please lib, try to avoid further embarassing yourself. Learn something about history. (And here's a hint for you...it didn't just begin in 1776.)
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 6:49:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 10:21:22 AM EST by Cincinnatus]
The "Banana Wars". The Gulf War.... Lots of wars. Why do you think we invaded Panama? (hint: it had to do with the Canal)
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 7:02:52 AM EST
Lib? [:)]
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 10:20:51 AM EST
[:)]
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 10:49:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 10:50:19 AM EST by 9divdoc]
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020710/capt.1026308435.florida_reno_governor_mh101.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 1:14:09 PM EST
[img]http://www.bushspeaks.com/images/bush_punishes_lay.jpg[/img]
"We have a duty to every worker, shareholder, and investor in America to punish the guilty, to close loopholes, and protect employee pensions. And we will." — G. W. Bush (Source: The White House)
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[img]http://www.bushspeaks.com/images/blair_fingers_bush.jpg[/img]
"Listen, I can assure you we won't be putting money into a society which is not transparent and corrupt. And I suspect other countries won't either. " — G. W. Bush (Source: The Whitehouse)
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[img]http://www.bushspeaks.com/images/let_him_sleep.jpg[/img]
"zzzzz...ss..zzzzzzz...zzz.zzzzz....mmmm... uuhhh...zzzz.....mmm..ss...mmm...uuhhh..." — G. W. Bush (Source: Associated Press)
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[img]http://www.bushspeaks.com/images/bush_sniffline.jpg[/img]
"My most important job is to defend the homeland, to protect innocent Americans from the deaths of the killers." — G. W. Bush (Source: The Whitehouse)
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[img]http://www.bushspeaks.com/images/ashcroft_pig.jpg[/img]
"...we're good at growing hogs, and we ought to be selling our hogs all across the world." — G. W. Bush (Source: The Washington Post)
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[img]http://www.bushspeaks.com/images/titanic.jpg[/img]
"America is leading the world in a titanic struggle against terror." — G. W. Bush (Source: The White House)
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Link Posted: 7/10/2002 1:32:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 1:34:20 PM EST by Cincinnatus]
I'd post something making fun of Canada's President and Cabinet Officials... ...except I don't even know what their names are. There's really no point in knowing. Canada went from being the property of England, to being the property of the United States. From subjects to sychophants. Dull sychophants. Scarecrow, you ill-mannered, teenage bore... ...quit making fun of our president.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 3:34:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Scarecrow, you ill-mannered, teenage bore... ...quit making fun of our president.
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Don't ask too much of the lad. After all, since he hasn't yet hit puberty, he has to take out his frustrations somehow.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 4:12:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 4:23:56 PM EST by DScott]
Cow Market Theories... TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income. ENRON VENTURE CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company. The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. Sell one cow to buy a new president of the United States, leaving you with nine cows. No balance sheet provided with the release. The public buys your bull. AN AMERICAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead. A FRENCH CORPORATION: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows. A JAPANESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You then create clever cow cartoon images called Cowkimon and market them worldwide. What would a Canadian cow company do?
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 4:18:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By tinkeroni: Dude!! You spelled Caesar wrong. It's really pronounced "say sar". woof woof.
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Nope. There was no soft C in latin until the Catholic church invented it. So chuch, as it is still pronounced inGerman and in Ireland would be pronounced kirk. Want to hear the way to properly say caesar? Just say it like the germans still do, kaiser.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 4:23:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By libertyof76: uh, huh. Just like all those wars fought over keeping trade routes open. Like...., uh..... There was.... let's see.... I'll think of one eventually!
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The opium wars, the running battles of the spice wars, the War of 1812, the present war in Afghanistan that is being fought in part so Unocal can build an oil pipeline, the running battles of the silk trade routes, the War of Secession which was stimulated in part by the trade restrictions the federal scum placed on southerners, the indigo wars, Alexander's war of conquest, which had as much to do with trade as real estate. I can think of others if you like but this is what comes immediately to mind.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 4:26:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARndog:
Originally Posted By libertyof76: Still waiting for those wars. Care to name any?
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Wasn't the war of 1812 basically about this? Weren't they boarding merchant vessels and forcing the crew into service in the royal navy?[:\]
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The lets make the US look like good guys version of the War of 1812 goes like that. This is one of the cases of the losers getting to write thh history. In truth the Brits were boarding US flagged merchant vessels and stealing their cargos. The cargos they were stealing? Slaves. The War of 1812 was fought in large part to preserve the slave trade.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 4:26:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86: Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch, and the blood boils with hate, and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizens, infused with fear, and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know?? For this is what I have done, and I am Caesar!
View Quote
Why we are taught history is to, in theory, teach us of mistakes and events of the past, so we may learn from them. "Oh, but this couldn't apply to Dubya...he is totally square with us. We're at war ya know."
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 4:54:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By stubbs: Why we are taught history is to, in theory, teach us of mistakes and events of the past, so we may learn from them.
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Unfortunately, some of us seem to be learning the wrong lessons.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 5:02:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By stubbs: Why we are taught history is to, in theory, teach us of mistakes and events of the past, so we may learn from them.
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Unfortunately, some of us seem to be learning the wrong lessons.
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All too true.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 5:36:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By LongIslandShooter:
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By LongIslandShooter: just curious...where (book/publication) is the quote from?
View Quote
The play, Julius Caeser, by Shakespeare. I think. People have been quoting that a lot lately, about politicians manipulating patriotism for their own ends.
View Quote
I just read JC in English class, and it's DEFINITLY not from the play.
View Quote
It sounds pure Machiavellian to me. While it is not a direct quotation from [u]The Prince[/u], it certainly bears a resemblance to the concepts that old Nic wrote of. Interesting concept indeed as Machiavelli's strategies and ideas for leaders gaining and keeping political power probably has some merit with our current world leaders.
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