Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/6/2002 11:16:52 AM EDT
...Just what,[b]exactly[/b], would the total outcome have been? How many seats on the national level would have been filled by the GOP? I am on "bended knee" pleading for all respondents to please leave their emotion out of their responses. Please present [b]just the facts, and hard numbers to back it up.[/b] Thanks for your reasoned input, D(TheChowderSociety)Peacher
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 12:01:57 PM EDT
I see just one Senate seat, in SD. (D) Johnson (R) Thune (Li) Evans 167,481 166,954 3,071 50% 49% 1% Most of the other races just weren't that close. I learned my lesson about voting for the third party underdog in 1992.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 12:28:38 PM EDT
Is that all? Sure doesn't seem like one Senate seat should be enough to cause all of the rancor displayed in some other threads.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 12:34:31 PM EDT
One senate vote might be big when the AWB comes rearing it's ugly head. It may seem a small price to pay, but it represents 1/100th of the GNP. That one seat could cost $50,000,000,000 (fifty billion dollars) in representation. That seems like a pretty steep price to pay.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 12:48:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2002 1:30:05 PM EDT by hound]
Removed by request
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 12:49:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: One senate vote might be big when the AWB comes rearing it's ugly head.
View Quote
How so when the GOP has the House and the White House?
It may seem a small price to pay, but it represents 1/100th of the GNP.
View Quote
GNP? Gross National Product? You lost me...
That one seat could cost $50,000,000,000 (fifty billion dollars) in representation. That seems like a pretty steep price to pay.
View Quote
EXACTLY how could it cost $50 billion? I need the facts. Not the speculation.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 12:55:04 PM EDT
hound, Please, I asked for everyone to keep the emotion out of this thread. Go rant in ETH's, that's what he wants.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 12:57:48 PM EDT
Regardless of the lack of emotion here, although it may not seem practical, a vote for a Libertarian, in good conscience, is NOT a wasted vote. If you feel strongly enough for the party, don't compromise.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 1:08:52 PM EDT
Let's keep our eye on the ball here! This thread is not about anyones convictions. It is about the facts concerning the supposed derailment of the GOP by the LP. I don't think the outcome of yesterdays vote had as severe consequences on the GOP as some members here proclaim. I am however keeping an open mind to reasoned debate backed by facts and hard numbers.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 1:43:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2002 2:12:41 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
OOPS!
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 2:01:30 PM EDT
Brog.....Please. Pretty please with ice cream and a cherry on top. (I've been told by Air Force members that I am too mean spirited and I'm trying to become a kinder, gentler warrior.) I am trying to use reason and logic provided by the GOP faithful to show that they are whining like a bunch a Bagram airmen over some very petty issues.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 2:01:40 PM EDT
And what if all the Green Party and other independents voted Democrat. What if all the Republicans voted Libertarian. People voted the way they voted because they did. Why not be concerned with, What would the effect of less negative political ads be? What if candidates actually talked about how they feel on an issue, instead of responding with nonsense or a sound bite answere that doesn't answer the actual question?
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 2:21:51 PM EDT
...they would not be Libertarians. I find the notion that ALL Libertarians are disgruntled Republicans arrogant. The fact is Libertarians are different, much different, from Republicans. I'll refrain from listing those differences as not to hijack DPeacher's thread. The paradigm of looking at Libertarian votes as Republican opportunity cost is not accurate.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 2:25:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2002 2:30:42 PM EDT by BostonTeaParty]
South Dakota Senate: D - 167,481 R - 166,954 L - 3,071 Utah House District 2 is close, but currently the Republican plus Libertarian votes would still fall just short of the Democrat: D - 108,488 R - 106,473 G - 2,508 L - 1,579 Colorado House District 7 is close, but the Republican is currently ahead: R - 76,254 D - 75,342 G - 3,086 Ref - 2,899 L - 2,670 Those are the only national races where the Libertarian candidate could have theoretically made the difference. The governors' races, while not national races, per se, still have national impact, and here there are more cases. Alabama Governor: D - 674,052 R - 670,913 L - 23,242 Oregon Governor: D - 557,664 R - 539,253 L - 55,858 Wisconsin Governor: D - 800,958 R - 732,781 L - 185,085 G - 44,110 other - 8,018 Wyoming Governor: D - 92,515 R - 88,701 L - 3,909 Vote totals from CNN.com, current as of posting.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 2:46:14 PM EDT
Thanks BTP! This is what I am looking for. Right now, and only if I use the flawed logic that somehow the LP votes were stolen from the GOP, 1 and only 1 Senate seat [b]MIGHT[/b] have gone to the GOP. The State races will indeed affect the way the districts are drawn in those States and [b]MAY[/b] have an impact on the [b]2004[/b] elections. As far as the next 2 years are concerned, the GOP should be able to push their agenda with only moderate resistance at most. It is now the GOP's time to show us what they got. If the GOP should stumble and fall or get bogged down, they will only have themselves to blame. No excuses! Put up or shut up.
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 2:53:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher: As far as the next 2 years are concerned, the GOP should be able to push their agenda with only moderate resistance at most. It is now the GOP's time to show us what they got. If the GOP should stumble and fall or get bogged down, they will only have themselves to blame. No excuses! Put up or shut up.
View Quote
Well said!
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 3:07:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markl32:
Originally Posted By DPeacher: As far as the next 2 years are concerned, the GOP should be able to push their agenda with only moderate resistance at most. It is now the GOP's time to show us what they got. If the GOP should stumble and fall or get bogged down, they will only have themselves to blame. No excuses! Put up or shut up.
View Quote
Well said!
View Quote
Yep!
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 3:14:10 PM EDT
Just one Senate seat, not even counting the House elections and the governorships? Is that all? Gee, I feel so better....not! Remember, the AWB passed by a SINGLE VOTE in the House back in May, 1994! A single frigging vote! And that's among 435! And the GOP lost control of the Senate earlier when only one Senator ('Jumpin' Jim Jeffords) decided to become an Independent and vote with the DEMOS! If it's only one Senator we're talking about, do you think that the Libertarians in Louisiana should stay at home and not go vote for the Republican candidate in the runoff election on December 7, 2002? I mean, it's only one Senator... And in the event that it's a GOP majority in the Senate by only two Senators, most of the really controversial legislation has to get a 60 vote margin to overcome the filibusters that the DEMOS will invariably make. Eric The(Serious)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/6/2002 3:21:26 PM EDT
DPEACHER WROTE:
Let's keep our eye on the ball here! This thread is not about anyones convictions. It is about the facts concerning the supposed derailment of the GOP by the LP. I don't think the outcome of yesterdays vote had as severe consequences on the GOP as some members here proclaim. I am however keeping an open mind to reasoned debate backed by facts and hard numbers.
View Quote
The Libertarian party is not the problem (yet, for now, maybe never) the problem (same problem really) is the Independent Party. They are the ones who strip votes from the Republicans in mass , we are not talking thousands or tens of thousands. Last night Oklahoma losta the Governors seat to a democrat because of an Independent. Albeit a good Independent from the looks of it. But now we have worse then an Independent we have a Democrat Governor.
Link Posted: 11/7/2002 11:46:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Just one Senate seat, not even counting the House elections and the governorships? Is that all? Gee, I feel so better....not! Remember, the AWB passed by a SINGLE VOTE in the House back in May, 1994! A single frigging vote! And that's among 435!
View Quote
Eric, how many of your Republicans voted for the AWB? Was it one, or two, or 25? How many Libertarians voted for it? None. I know there weren't any there to vote, but just humor this dumb old Jarhead, if there had been some they sure as Jesus would not have voted for it.
And the GOP lost control of the Senate earlier when only one Senator ('Jumpin' Jim Jeffords) decided to become an Independent and vote with the DEMOS!
View Quote
That is a fine example. Yet another example of a Republican selling out, and somehow it was a Libertarian plot.
If it's only one Senator we're talking about, do you think that the Libertarians in Louisiana should stay at home and not go vote for the Republican candidate in the runoff election on December 7, 2002? I mean, it's only one Senator...
View Quote
I hope they go out, hold their noses like I did, and vote for the GOP candidate.
And in the event that it's a GOP majority in the Senate by only two Senators, most of the really controversial legislation has to get a 60 vote margin to overcome the filibusters that the DEMOS will invariably make.
View Quote
Nice try, but I seriously doubt the DemonicRats will filibuster every single time. They have had a brutal wake up call from their 10 year slumber and should realise by now that in order to survive, they will have to move a bit to the right.
Eric The(Serious)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Here is the bottom line. The GOP holds a winning hand with quite a few trump cards. As long as they back each other and work as a team, they have the power to push their agenda through with little to moderate resistance. If they fail, they will have only themselves to blame. I am happy with the results of this election. But I am also not expecting the GOP to be the knight in shining armor for the freedom loving citizens of this great country. There have been far too many times where the GOP has stabbed us in the back.
Top Top