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Posted: 2/27/2002 1:48:20 PM EDT
[#1]
You ought to tack this one up.
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Posted: 2/27/2002 2:00:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Excellent!
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Posted: 2/27/2002 2:19:40 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 2/27/2002 2:45:33 PM EDT
[#4]
I do hope this is 100% true. Dell does value it's customers, and I'm glad that the situation has been resolved.
As I had mentioned, I'm in the middle on this whole situation, being a Dell employee, and a firearms enthusiast. I hope that the apology was made with the assurance that Dell does not discriminate against firearms related business. I don't think Dell is ever going to take an official position on the whole firearms debate, which is probably better for such a large business. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:02:07 PM EDT
[#5]
I missed this. What was the story, or where do I look?
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:12:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: I missed this. What was the story, or where do I look? There's a HUGE thread on it, but here's a small one that has the story: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=96772[/url] |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:13:26 PM EDT
[#7]
From the 1911Forum board:
Dell issue A little update. I was contacted by Dell this morning, a MR. John Hood. He explained the following. He expressed Dells sincerest apologies for the problem I encountered. He said that Dell would be reviewing and possibly changing the screening policy. Dell also offered to send me the machine I had ordered at no charge, I politely declined the machine. I would never want this to be turned into me posting this to get a free machine. Secondly for obvious reasons I am not interested in doing business with Dell. Dell is sending me a statement to post on my web site sometime tomorrow explaining what they are doing and what they intend to do concerning this issue. I know not all agree with my not accepting the machine from Dell but this is a decision I need to be comfortable with. My main issue was to get the screening policy changed. Thank you all for the overwhelming support you have given me, over three hundred emails worth and only one negative, LOL! God Bless Jack Weigand From Dell, Inc Founder and CEO - Michael Dell: U.S. export laws restrict the sale of technology to terrorists and to people in countries that support terrorism. These laws also prohibit computer sales to people who will use the technology in developing biological or nuclear weapons. Dell strictly complies with our country's export laws in order to ensure the safety of our customers and citizens around the world. When there is reasonable cause for concern, we carefully review customer orders for prohibited destinations and activities. When additional follow-up on an order is required, our sales representatives ask our customers four basic questions: 1. Who is the end-user? 2. Where will the product be used? 3. What will the product be used for? 4. What type of business or industry is involved? The answers to these questions, like all customer information we gather, are confidential and are not shared outside of Dell. We recently received an order from a customer whose company name included the word "combat." We cancelled the order to give us enough time follow up with the customer and be assured that the sale would be in compliance with U.S. export law. However, we failed to contact the customer, and as a result, we did not deliver the order as promised, and the customer did not know why. Once we discovered our error, we apologized to the customer for this misunderstanding, as well as the inconvenience caused by the delay. This is not the service standard that we hold ourselves to at Dell, and if I were a customer who'd received similar treatment, I would be very disappointed. We at Dell feel a strong obligation to uphold our federal law, but we have just as strong an obligation to be responsive to the needs of all our customers. I want assure you that Dell does not discriminate against any business, regardless of the products or services they sell, nor do we discriminate against individual consumers. We do, however, sometimes make mistakes - as we did in this case. Thank you for your support. Sincerely, Michael Dell |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:36:23 PM EDT
[#8]
OK, in that case my take on the situation is this:
In attempting to comply with the national security frenzy, Dell implemented a screening protocol for all business purchasers. That protocol flagged Mr. Weigand's business (allegedly) because of the word "combat", but just as likely because of the word "handgun". Tough call. Do you want your customers pissed at you, or Uncle Sugar? Anyway, somebody dropped the ball, not that Mr. Weigand would have been pleased with that ball had it been tossed to him. Mr. Weigand complained, loudly, and got a response, and an apology from [b]the head guy[/b]. Good enough for me. In the current political climate, Dell is doing as well as it thinks it can, and is considering ways to do it better. I cannot bring myself to punish them for that. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:38:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Good! I accept Dell's apology to Mr. Weigand. Sh*t happens sometimes. I am not going to get all frothy at the mouth because ONE GUY has a bad experience. Dell has sold millions of computers. I have a Dell computer and it is the best, most reliable computer that I have ever owned. Dell has made it clear that they are not anti-gun. For Christs's sake, don't go ballistic over ONE ISOLATED INCIDENT! |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:45:56 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm the one vote (so far) for "Classic CYA to avoid a boycott." [u]This is no different[/u] than "I saw a black man on the news who committed a crime, so I refuse to do business with blacks--until someone raises a stink, maybe Jesse Jackson. Then I'll pay his "protection" to get forgiven." Screw Dell, as their "explanation" does not fit with the standards they are claiming to be adhering to.
On the other hand, I applaud Mr. Weigand highly for his class and character shown throughout this ordeal. He is obviously a man with character typical of most gun owners. I will seek to find an excuse to deal with him in the future. Bravo, sir! [beer] |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:49:19 PM EDT
[#11]
not to mention, anti-self defense businesses are generally very vocal about their stance...and proud of it.
if Dell hasn't bragged about being anti-self defense, my guess is they probably aren't. though i have to wonder how their screening process actually gets anything. i mean, i could be a terrorist and fill out everything indicating that i'm a 58 y/o grandmother of 7 who just wants email to keep in touch with the grandkids. c'mon. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:52:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: For Christs's sake, don't go ballistic over ONE ISOLATED INCIDENT! I do agree but this is what we call "nipping it in the bud". Let us send ANOTHER message to the corporate world, if you mess with us we will not buy your products. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:54:59 PM EDT
[#13]
It's reassuring to know that Dell probably is also not selling to organizations with "Jihad" and "bin Laden" in their names. I sure hope it never occurs to the terrorists that they can place their Dell orders under an ordinary assumed name. [rolleyes]
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Posted: 2/27/2002 3:55:37 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm sure Mr. Weigand mentioned he was a U.S. citizen and that his company was located in the United States. I'm sure he also made it clear he was a federally licensed manufacturer of firearms. If in fact those are the questions he was asked when he ordered his dell computer then why was he denied the sale. After answering the four question was this not enough for there federal export laws?
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Posted: 2/27/2002 5:16:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Classic bullshit response when caught in the act. They are trying to buy a large segment of the American public for the price of a laptop.
Here's a little somethin I picked up in the "1911TechTalk" list, forwarding marks & all: >>More info from Jim N on tx.guns... >> >> >>On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:47:59 GMT, Jim Nicholson >>wrote: >> >> >Fellows, as I mentioned, here is more evidence of Dell's anti-gun >> >policies. It appears to run deeper than just the isolated >> >mistake of one individual salesman in the Jack Weigand case. This >> >one ain't just Pennsylvania, Dell is messing with Texas now! >> >TSRA is currently trying to arrange a meeting with Dell's >> >management to determine the depth of this policy. >> > >> >-------- Original Message -------- >> >Subject: More on Dell Computers >> >Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:19:15 -0600 >> >From: "Denny Vasquez" >> >To: >> > >> >Jim, >> > >> >The email you sent me concerning Dell computers could have not >> >been timelier. On the Feb 18th I ordered a computer from Dell to >> >replace the one that I have been leasing from them for the last 3 >> >years. My order was >> >accepted and I was assigned a tracking number. When I logged on >> >to their web page last Thursday to check the status of my order I >> >could not locate it in their work stream. Therefore, I called >> >Dell and was informed that there were problems with my order and >> >that someone would call me back on Friday. >> > >> >Having not heard back from them on Friday, I called back on >> >Monday to inquire as to what the problem might be. I was informed >> >that my order had been canceled and that I was no long an >> >approved customer of Dell Computer Corporation. Not understanding >> >this logic, and knowing that each of my monthly lease payments >> >had been made as requested, I asked to speak to a supervisor in >> >order to determine why they had made this decision. After going >> >up the chain of command several levels I was finally told that I >> >was on a list of undesirable customers that Dell maintained and >> >that they would not sell me a computer because they didn't know >> >if all of my potential uses for the machine would be legal or >> >not. >> > >> >When I asked them what they were implying, this supervisor said >> >that according to their records I belonged to pro-gun and >> >pro-hunting groups such the NRA, TSRA, SCI, Trophy Game Records >> >of the world and others. When I inquired as what this had to do >> >with my purchase of a new computer, I was told that the Dell >> >Computer Corporation felt that it was their responsibility as a >> >member of the US corporate society to insure that their products >> >were not used for purposes that ran contra to Dell's corporate >> >policies and beliefs. >> > >> >Bottom line of the conversation was that I had been labeled as a >> >potential menace to society because I am gun owner and a hunter, >> >even though I do not have a police record and have never >> >participated in a law suit, therefore, the Dell Computer >> >Corporation would no longer sell computers to me or to those like >> >me. >> > >> >What a crock! Just thought you might like to know. >> > >> >Denny Vasquez > Dude, no Dell for me. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 5:26:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Norm_G,
I was really afraid that this was the case. I guess we will need more than an apology to make this right. Aggie1 |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 5:27:05 PM EDT
[#17]
This is another victory!
[b][u]Praise the lord and pass the ammunition![/u][/b][usa] |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 5:48:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Like I replied to Norm G in another thread:
You don't beleive everything you read, do you? That email from 'Denny' is likely a crock of shit. Wait until somebody more credible confirms. That first part of his quote says that the TSRA is trying to look into it. Wait until they find something to get up in arms. If this email from Denny is credible, then Dell officials shouldn't have any problem confirming his allegations. Wouldn't you just feel STUPID if you found out you were wrong? |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:00:12 PM EDT
[#19]
URGENT!!!!
Dell Computer supports Robert D. Reed with grants and with professional service contracts for marketing (blackmail marketing). He is the co-founder of Ceasefire..."As co-founder of a grassroots organization, "CeaseFire" (in San Francisco and Boston, MA), Reed is an advocate for ending gun violence in our communities". Robert is a publisher of several anti-gun books including "50 Things You Can Do About Guns (stopping gun violence)" that he sells through Dell Computer stores no less. SO, DUDE, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BUY A DELL? |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:03:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Back in 1994 my father purchased a 486 Dell at a Price Club in San Diego. We moved to a house in GA that had been worked on by an idiot who had placed a 110 plug cover over a 220 outlet. Needless to say, when my father plugged the computer in for the first time, it was fried. He called Dell and informed them as to what happened, and they sent a guy out to fix it free of charge. That impressed me that their customer service was that good.
I on the other hand purchased a Gateway, and when lightning struck through my modem, Gateway conveniently claimed that lightning voided the warranty. After going through all of this, and now hearing that they were willing to apologize, I would still consider owning a Dell. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:04:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Wow am I glad to hear that. I have been looking at computers and was set on a Dell, then heard the earlier information and was wondering what I was going to do now. Actually still considering other options. Nevertheless, glad to hear they made the apology and corrected the problem.
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:09:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: URGENT!!!! Dell Computer supports Robert D. Reed with grants and with professional service contracts for marketing (blackmail marketing). He is the co-founder of Ceasefire..."As co-founder of a grassroots organization, "CeaseFire" (in San Francisco and Boston, MA), Reed is an advocate for ending gun violence in our communities". Robert is a publisher of several anti-gun books including "50 Things You Can Do About Guns (stopping gun violence)" that he sells through Dell Computer stores no less. SO, DUDE, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BUY A DELL? Umm, dude, hate to make you look stupid. But Dell does not even [i]HAVE[/i] stores. What you just posted is probably as much a crock of shit as what Norm G posted. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:12:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Dude, not to make you look like a fool, but Dell Computer did have stores and bookshelves within these stores. AND... sitting on those shelves were the books that Reed publishes. He was able to obtain a deal with Dell Computer.
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:13:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Once again,
Can you believe all the people falling for Michael Dell's "explanation"? That was not an apology, he was trying to use this US Export law for tier 2,3 and 4 countries to explain this incident. Having dealt with Dell for a long time now, I find it harrd to believe that they would "mistake" his US address for a foreign country. And why do you find it so hard to believe Denny V.? If michael dell can buy you all off with a laptop computer and a lame BS explanation, then you will freely give up your arms when the UN or who ever comes for them. Fencer, I think your reaching, I don't blame you, but that is my opinion. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:15:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Like I replied to Norm G in another thread: You don't beleive everything you read, do you? That email from 'Denny' is likely a crock of shit. Wait until somebody more credible confirms. That first part of his quote says that the TSRA is trying to look into it. Wait until they find something to get up in arms. If this email from Denny is credible, then Dell officials shouldn't have any problem confirming his allegations. Wouldn't you just feel STUPID if you found out you were wrong? No offense but in my thread you stated that you were sure that there was no screening policy. That has been proven wrong. There is a screening policy in place. So maybe you sould leave the personal insults out of it. Aggie1 |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:17:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Dude, not to make you look like a fool, but Dell Computer did have stores and bookshelves within these stores. AND... sitting on those shelves were the books that Reed publishes. He was able to obtain a deal with Dell Computer. Umm, I've worked for Dell in some way shape or form for over 5 years. The only store we had was the Dell Factory Outlet, which was in Austin. It closed several years ago in favor of online store fronts. There are no Dell stores. Anywhere. . Show me a picture of a Dell store somewhere, and I might believe you. Gatway is stupid enough to build stores, but don't confuse Dell with them. We're eating their lunch and they know it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:23:07 PM EDT
[#27]
We bitch, Dell straightens the situation out. After the head guy got involved I would guess that mention will be made in Dell to not repeat the mistake so haven't we gotten what we want?
I don't buy either of these claims that Dell is antigun-how would Dell know that this guy belongs to "to pro-gun and >> >pro-hunting groups such the NRA, TSRA, SCI, Trophy Game Records >> >of the world and others."? Gun related businesses will apparently be treated appropriatly by Dell in the future because they don't want more trouble from us. If we continue to attack them won't Dell just think gunowners are jerks who can't be pleased no matter what? |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:38:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Like I replied to Norm G in another thread: You don't beleive everything you read, do you? That email from 'Denny' is likely a crock of shit. Wait until somebody more credible confirms. That first part of his quote says that the TSRA is trying to look into it. Wait until they find something to get up in arms. If this email from Denny is credible, then Dell officials shouldn't have any problem confirming his allegations. Wouldn't you just feel STUPID if you found out you were wrong? No offense but in my thread you stated that you were sure that there was no screening policy. That has been proven wrong. There is a screening policy in place. So maybe you sould leave the personal insults out of it. Aggie1 Ok, put it this way, there are what are called Export Compliance Laws. If you order a computer and want it shipped to Iran, you will get denied. It's federal law. Dell will screen insofar as to comply to federal law, but is not, does not, and will not DISCRIMINATE against anyone. You heard it from Michael Dell himself. He's not one to lie, or have someone lie for him. Your type seem to be a fighter looking for an opponent... or a solution looking for a problem. Please don't make us all look bad by getting rabid on ANYONE without CREDIBLE FACTS. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:40:09 PM EDT
[#29]
F-Dell!!
[url]http://www.progressivefunds.com/hci/[/url] |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:44:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: We bitch, Dell straightens the situation out. After the head guy got involved I would guess that mention will be made in Dell to not repeat the mistake so haven't we gotten what we want? I don't buy either of these claims that Dell is antigun-how would Dell know that this guy belongs to "to pro-gun and >> >pro-hunting groups such the NRA, TSRA, SCI, Trophy Game Records >> >of the world and others."? Gun related businesses will apparently be treated appropriatly by Dell in the future because they don't want more trouble from us. If we continue to attack them won't Dell just think gunowners are jerks who can't be pleased no matter what? I agree with Aimpoint... how the heck would Dell know that a customer, any customer, is affiliated with ANY group, shy of illegal surveillance. Why would Dell even BOTHER to find out what groups a customer is affiliated with? That email was a crock of shit. Like I mentioned, Wilson Combat ordered a desktop computer and a couple peripherals in January from Dell. No hitches or denials there. They have also ordered from us in the past. What sounds logical people? |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:53:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Fencer, are you reading and understanding what you are posting?
Yes, export compliance laws exist, and this was the case even before 9/11. But you don't have a compliance issue with a US shipping address. You really want to believe it is all fixed, that is fine but don't be in denial about the line of BS that M.D. is trying to sell. If he wasn't trying to make excuses, and actually apologized for Dell's actions, and changed the so called screening policy, then I might be inclined to back off. But as it stands I am even more convinced of Dell's attitude toward gun's. As more of this comes to light, maybe just maybe, you will realize the wool has been pulled over your eyes. Why do you so desperately want to believe them? BTW was Dell in compliance pre 9/11? And as to how would they know all this info about a potential customer? Well I used to work for MessageMedia, a company that gathered info from what sites you visited and if you answered survey's, etc. and compiled it for sale. I was uncomfortable with the amount of data they could actually obtain, and before I could find another job and leave I was laid off in a rif. Dell and other companies pay companies like MM for this info, and it can get right down to your most basic info. I don't expect you to believe me as I am not Mike Dell, but I have nothing to gain by lying about this. Go on and believe what you will. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 6:57:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Fencer, are you reading and understanding what you are posting? Yes, export compliance laws exist, and this was the case even before 9/11. But you don't have a compliance issue with a US shipping address. You really want to believe it is all fixed, that is fine but don't be in denial about the line of BS that M.D. is trying to sell. If he wasn't trying to make excuses, and actually apologized for Dell's actions, and changed the so called screening policy, then I might be inclined to back off. But as it stands I am even more convinced of Dell's attitude toward gun's. As more of this comes to light, maybe just maybe, you will realize the wool has been pulled over your eyes. Why do you so desperately want to believe them? BTW was Dell in compliance pre 9/11? Dude. We WORK FOR DELL. There are shooters and gunnies all over the place. The HQ is in Texas. If Denny has proof of some sort of anti-gun bias, let him produce an account number, or a order number, or ANY number. I'll track the frigging thing myself and post what I find. You people need to remember that corporations are in business to make money, not take ideological stands most of the time. Dell sells computers. We sell to all sorts of customers. If you have proof, show me. I will confirm or debunk it as the evidence shows. AR15Fencer has done a bang-up job so far, but he ain't the only gunnie at Dell. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 7:08:12 PM EDT
[#33]
I still have a BIG problem with Dell.
Where do they get off screening purchasers like this? What give them the right/insight/wisdom/crystal ball to try and decide who is worthy of buying from them, and who is probably a criminal? Home Depot doesn't make me sign a waiver to buy box cutters. Sports Authority doesn't require my fingerprints to buy a baseball bat. WTF is Dell doing playing god? I've had it with businesses that make things worse than our Legislators already make them. We've got stores in Maryland collecting ammunition purchasing information, including drivers licenses numbers, and handing it over to the State Police. There is no legal requirement to do this, but they do it anyway. FFL's that "play it safe" and won't turn over firearms if they haven't heard back from the FBI NICS check, even after the law REQUIRES them to release the gun. Do you want to live in a Society where everyone suspects everyone, and you have to prove your worthiness to buy a lousy computer? Dell is just adding to the problem by making itself Judge, Jury and Arbitor. I guess [b]Guilty until proven Innocent[/b] is their corporate motto. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 7:11:47 PM EDT
[#34]
[b]I[/b] will call Mike Dell a LIAR.
Read his link. Dell supports the Brady Campaign. [url]www.progressivefunds.com/hci/#computers[/url] Ar15FENCER, explain this away. [smoke] |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 7:17:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Spear,
you and fencer need to realize that we are not against the employees at Dell in general. I would think that as a responsible gun owners that the two of you would be louder voices than us all, expressing outrage at the actions of your employer. So far my anger is focused at Dell Corporate and now Mike Dell. I will not however resort to personal attacks, We want answers not BS. I ask again, are the two of you satisfied with Mikes explanation? Do you really believe the way Dell is run that a mistake like that was the true cause? What kind of flag gets raised by a US billing address and US shipping address on US Export Compliance? Yes I realize that companies are in business to make money and Dell does that by selling computers. I guess that is what really disturbs me most, is why Mike didn't tell us what the real screwup was if it in fact was a screwup. I am open to a write an apology to Dell, Mike Dell and every where I have posted if I am convinced that I am wrong. But right now there are to many questions left unanswered. SKIP THE APOLOGY Thanks Hydguy, I think my questions have been answered |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 7:21:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: [b]I[/b] will call Mike Dell a LIAR. Read his link. Dell supports the Brady Campaign. [url]www.progressivefunds.com/hci/#computers[/url] Ar15FENCER, explain this away. [smoke] That is creepy. But is this something that Dell contracted for? Or is this some kind of standard click through repayment set up? I think almost anyone can get $ by setting up a link to Amazon, is this similar? here's a link to Dell's customer chat site, which currently embroiled in this debate. [8D] [url=]http://delltalk.us.dell.com/messages/overview.asp?page=1&name=cs_general[/url] A question regarding this has already been posted there-no response yet. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 7:28:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Here's a post I found with some interesting points:
[url]http://delltalk.us.dell.com/messages/message_view.asp?name=cs_general&id=zypmq[/url] It would appear from reading messages in this forum that Dell requires a purchase waiver if certain key words appear in a business name. I'm assuming that this waiver is a blanket release that assures Dell that the purchaser intends to do nothing illegal with the system. I have several questions regarding this policy: 1. What keywords "setthe system off," as it were? Examples: Would McGraw Hill PUBLISHING require a waiver to reassure Dell that they don't publish child pornography? Would Merke PHARMACEUTICALS require a waiver to reassure Dell that it's not actually an illegal meth lab? 2. Given that the waivers are apparently a "hit or miss" kind of thing and not collected from every purchaser, what, if any, legal relief would they give Dell in a potential court case? (My thought is, not much.) 3. Given the nature of corporations in the United States (Enron, Global Crossing), is Dell willing to supply to its purchasers a waiver stating that Dell employees and corporate officers will not engage in illegal activities? |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 8:45:37 PM EDT
[#38]
This is a big load of BS.
___________________________________________________________________________________ When additional follow-up on an order is required, our sales representatives ask our customers four basic questions: 1. Who is the end-user? 2. Where will the product be used? 3. What will the product be used for? 4. What type of business or industry is involved? The answers to these questions, like all customer information we gather, are confidential and are not shared outside of Dell. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Since when did they have a "brady law " for computers. And what business is it of theirs anyhow. The last statement is pure BS. IF they thought someone was trying to do something illegal, I can bet, they would be the first to call the FEDS and report a suspcious purchase. So if I needed a server for a porno site they wouldn't sell it to me? Nobody doe sthis for cars that I am aware of. Nobody asks this in any store, computer or otherwise. Why here? The answers have not come out yet that is for sure.. Until they do (don't hold your breath) Dell is not going to be suggested to anyone. _________________________________________________________________________________ Thump a democrat, they deserve it.[stick] |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 9:13:11 PM EDT
[#39]
I have posted the following message in the DellTalk forum, and I urge everyone here to do the same. I would ask that everyone who posts do so in a civil, polite manner. Vitriol and Ad Hominem attacks are the tools of the enemy, sometimes the softest voice is the one most easily heard.
I have been following with interest the problems surrounding Mr. Weigand's attempt to purchase a computer from Dell. After reading the message posted by Michael Dell, I am satisfied that the incident was the result of a bureaucratic snafu and that Dell is taking steps to ensure that it will not be repeated. More troubling to me however, is learning that Dell provides monetary support to Handgun Control, Inc. through the ProgressiveFunds website. It makes no difference to me how much money HCI actually receives through this arrangement, what matters to me is that Dell is providing support to an organization whose goal is nothing less than the dismantling of the Second Amendment. Until such time as Dell ends this relationship, I will not purchase anything from them and I will urge my friends to act accordingly. I welcome any response from Dell regarding this matter. Sincerely, Robert Wood |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 9:13:56 PM EDT
[#40]
[url]www.progressivefunds.com/hci[/url]
[img]www.progressivefunds.com/hci/images/hci_banner.gif[/img] You gotta wonder... |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 10:28:13 PM EDT
[#41]
[img]http://www.progressivefunds.com/images/titlebanner.gif[/img]
[url]ProgressiveFunds.com[/url] serves as a link source for colleges, charities, and other non-profits organizations. Retailers whose links appear on these pages guarantee a portion of each purchase to ProgressiveFunds.com organizations. If your alma mater or favorite organization does not have it's own ProgressiveFunds.com links page, or if your favorite retailer does not have a link on your organization's page, please contact us at [email protected]. |
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Posted: 2/27/2002 11:15:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: [url]www.progressivefunds.com/hci[/url] That's basically a standard affiliate program, not something that Dell or HCI specifically set up. We could do the same thing - set up an NRA section, link to all these various stores and donate any commission on sales to the NRA. |
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Posted: 2/28/2002 3:10:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: This is a big load of BS. ___________________________________________________________________________________ When additional follow-up on an order is required, our sales representatives ask our customers four basic questions: 1. Who is the end-user? 2. Where will the product be used? 3. What will the product be used for? 4. What type of business or industry is involved? The answers to these questions, like all customer information we gather, are confidential and are not shared outside of Dell. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Since when did they have a "brady law " for computers. And what business is it of theirs anyhow. The last statement is pure BS. IF they thought someone was trying to do something illegal, I can bet, they would be the first to call the FEDS and report a suspcious purchase. Thump a democrat, they deserve it.[stick] Edited for Brevity, Yes the US State Dept. has a list of items that can not be exported without their OK. I have NVG's that are stamped not for export, there is also a bunch of legalese in the manual about not being able to export the NVG's. Try to export a super-computer sometime, It ain't gonna happen. Certain CNC machines cant be exported. Certain machines to make medicines can't be exported. All of these items can be put to use in ways other than the manufacter intended. Rememember when Toshiba exported some huge CNC milling machines to China in the late 80's easrly 90's?? The Chinese immediatley used them to make much better ship propellers, so their submarines became much quieter and more difficult to detect. PC's are more powerful than many of the mainframes that the US used to use to develop it's weapons of mass destruction. The State Dept. knows that. I am sure that there are restrictions on high speed somputers leaving this country. Have you noticed that when US forces find Taliban HQ's the have computers, that were used to further the Talibans terrorist plots? Including research on WMD. How many Afghanee computer factories do you think there are? I'm sure part of the Dell "screening" is CYA for Dell. Meaning they ask questions, related to US State Dept. rules, if someone gives answers that would seem to violate the rules they cancel the sale. If someone answers truthfully and passes or lies and passes the sale goes through. If a Dell computer shows up someplace the State Dept. didn't approve it to be Dell can say "we screen according to State Dept. requirements....." |
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Posted: 2/28/2002 4:16:39 AM EDT
[#44]
Hi, I just wanted to introduce myself, I am Cleatus, Founder and owner of my own company. I was looking to purchase my compuers from Dell, but am not sure if my company name will be a problem. If anybody would like to mail me with any suggestions please contact me at my company: Hanguns for Jihad Sniper Exporting and Assault Weapon Co, Inc. [;D]
Note: They F-ed up, and made pretty good effort to fix. I say give em a break. |
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Posted: 2/28/2002 4:20:14 AM EDT
[#45]
This computer WASN'T being exported.
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Posted: 2/28/2002 4:33:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: This computer WASN'T being exported. I KNOW that, but as in many CYA things common sense should not be used............ Remember we are in the country where an old lady sued McDonald's because the coffee they served her was hot........ |
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Posted: 2/28/2002 5:43:08 AM EDT
[#47]
I hear a lot of "they made a pretty good effort to fix it, let's give them a break" talk.
Are all of you that think this wimps? Please understand, once again, Mike Dell and Dell Inc have done nothing but try to buy off Jack and all the rest with a Laptop computer. There was no explanation, no real apology, and no statement that they would change their policy. Forget the CYA rubbish that others propose, you guys are giving them excuses, why not hold them accountable and DEMAND answers? Computer companies loosely follow the US Export laws, and during the klinton administration these laws were almost completely abolished. I have checked into exporting computers as I have had people from the middle east try to buy computers I had for sale. And ask me to ship it to overseas addresses. I was shocked to find out just how much I Could ship overseas. But that is just BS anyway, Jack is a US citizen and has a US address, and a US billing address. He would not have a problem ordering ammo...... BTW, if I had my company some how connected to this progressive site and it was supporting HCI, I would cancel that like a hot potato. Don't tell me they were not aware, their lawyers don't let something like this go unnoticed. If for nothing else just the hours they can bill to list the ramifications. Flame away, I am so upset with the apathy right now I could scream...... |
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Posted: 2/28/2002 5:49:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: This computer WASN'T being exported. But it was being SOLD... which is what triggered the screening process. I have no idea what business you're in, but do you have any idea about the kind of volume Dell does, or how difficult it would be to comply with governmental regs? Do you really think they have some crack team of highly trained individuals poring over every invoice, checking every detail to ensure compliance with GOVERNMENT regulations? No. Apparently they have a computer screeening program that flags any order with the keywords in it. Then people step in, and they can screw up. Apparently they did. EVERY business screws up and makes simple mistakes- name ONE that doesn't. And people will find evidence to confirm their pre-existing beliefs every time they go looking for it. BTW, if Michael Dell wants to send me a laptop to quell *my* outrage, great! [:P] |
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Posted: 2/28/2002 5:54:10 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: I hear a lot of "they made a pretty good effort to fix it, let's give them a break" talk. Are all of you that think this wimps? Please understand, once again, Mike Dell and Dell Inc have done nothing but try to buy off Jack and all the rest with a Laptop computer. There was no explanation, no real apology, and no statement that they would change their policy. Forget the CYA rubbish that others propose, you guys are giving them excuses, why not hold them accountable and DEMAND answers? Computer companies loosely follow the US Export laws, and during the klinton administration these laws were almost completely abolished. I have checked into exporting computers as I have had people from the middle east try to buy computers I had for sale. And ask me to ship it to overseas addresses. I was shocked to find out just how much I Could ship overseas. But that is just BS anyway, Jack is a US citizen and has a US address, and a US billing address. He would not have a problem ordering ammo...... BTW, if I had my company some how connected to this progressive site and it was supporting HCI, I would cancel that like a hot potato. Don't tell me they were not aware, their lawyers don't let something like this go unnoticed. If for nothing else just the hours they can bill to list the ramifications. Flame away, I am so upset with the apathy right now I could scream...... It's not apathy, it's a difference of opinion. You want to be upset, though, consider this situation: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=96906[/url] It makes this Dell issue seem really stupid in contrast. |
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Posted: 2/28/2002 6:17:30 AM EDT
[#50]
Is Dell on the list of supporters of Handgun Control Inc.?
Does anybody have a link to their website..got Sarah Bradys but couldnt find a list of donors/supporters/partners Ya think Dell will contribute to the NRA as well as HCI Inc. kinda like the "ferryman" said in the movie "Josie Wales".."In this line of business you gotta be able to whistle "dixie" as well as "the battle hymn of the republic" |
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