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Posted: 1/8/2003 3:33:07 PM EST
[url=http://www.ifilm.com/ifilm/product/film_info/0,3699,2416886,00.html]Popeye Clip[/url] He could've kicked some Pokemon ass.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:53:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:05:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:08:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 4:08:29 PM EST by The_Breakfast_Fox]
Originally Posted By shotar: A very enjoyable cartoon. It proves however that money often talks with media companies and our former enemy does not like to be reminded either of their treachery or defeat and subjegation.
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...And also, maybe, some Japanese-American citizens don't like to be reminded of that time when they were put in concentration camps.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:16:32 PM EST
You've got it all wrong - they're only in support of free speech when it's for a cause or a reason that they approve of.
Originally Posted By SuperChicken: umm, free speech... does that ring a bell? and i thought liberals were all over that amendment
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Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:20:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:27:04 PM EST
As a Victor, we are ALLOWED to talk about whos asses we have kicked. They NEED and SHOULD be ashamed of what happened. I agree the camps were UNNECCASARY, I would have prefered DEPORTATION or putting them in the front lines. We are all gonna suffer because we are not doing the same now to another AGGRESSIVE group. IMO.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 5:15:23 PM EST
The cartoon was good, but the reviews are even better. It's like DU exploded and pieces of stupidity landed at ifilm.com and left reviews.
This movie may have been meaningful in the context of its time, but we live in a different society now, and cartoons like this really don't belong in a system of equality. This is a horribly racist film!
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Link Posted: 1/8/2003 6:06:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By The_Breakfast_Fox:
Originally Posted By shotar: A very enjoyable cartoon. It proves however that money often talks with media companies and our former enemy does not like to be reminded either of their treachery or defeat and subjegation.
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...And also, maybe, some Japanese-American citizens don't like to be reminded of that time when they were put in concentration camps.
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There's a BIG difference between the internment camps in the U.S. and the concentration camps in Germany. As for the cartoon, I love the old cartoons, especially looney tunes. I wish I could find a place to buy these EVIL, BIGOTED, HOMOPHOBIC, SEXIST, RACIST, NON PC cartoons in their ORIGINAL AND UNEDITED CONDITION !!!! Before the pansy assed PC nazis got to them. BTW, anyone remember the disney movie "song of the south "?? Just try looking for it now. Disney will deny it ever existed.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 6:31:42 PM EST
Just think, when I was watching that cartoon back in Texas in the 1950s, World War II was more recent than the Gulf War is to today! And the Gulf War just doesn't seem like that long ago, does it? Eric The(OldGeezer)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 7:36:10 PM EST
go to grokster or kazza and do a search for banned cartoons and their is a lot of them out there, the funniest one i found was a flintstones commercial for winston cigs from 1961. and walt disney cartoon about 15 min long about hitler.i got about 2 hrs of banned cartoons burned around here somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:05:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By azcopwannabee: As a Victor, we are ALLOWED to talk about whos asses we have kicked. They NEED and SHOULD be ashamed of what happened. I agree the camps were UNNECCASARY, I would have prefered DEPORTATION or putting them in the front lines. We are all gonna suffer because we are not doing the same now to another AGGRESSIVE group. IMO.
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Hope you don't mind me reminding you, many of those sent to camps were AMERICAN CITIZENS!! Many of those you would have deported, actually WERE in the front lines in Italy, and were among the highest decorated AMERICAN units of WWII....
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:18:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: BTW, anyone remember the disney movie "song of the south "?? Just try looking for it now. Disney will deny it ever existed.
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Sounds vaguely familiar. Would you describe it please.....
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:25:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By parshooter:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: BTW, anyone remember the disney movie "song of the south "?? Just try looking for it now. Disney will deny it ever existed.
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Sounds vaguely familiar. Would you describe it please.....
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uncle remis, the tar baby, Briar rabbit etc etc. ring a bell now? fubar thing is its what they based Splash Mountian on
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:35:04 PM EST
Well..that was VERY entertaining. I think what it is about the cartoon that enrages some people is that their is a lot of truth in it. It is a distorted reflection of American Culture. How our Countrymen are for the most part stupid and gullible. And that it normally takes someone to come along and really kick our teeth in before our nation wakes up and starts fighting. This is precisely what happened during WWII. As for the LARGE Japanese Battleship and the smaller ship manned by Popeye. The Imperial Japanese Navy DID have the US Navy outgunned up until the Battle of Midway. Up until then the Japanese were outmanuevering us. And American Forces were in retreat in the Pacific: Phillipines, Guam, etc. And the Japanese Government did NOT play by the rules of war. They violated the Geneva Convention and committed War Crimes against prisoners of war and against Civilians. Liberal's do NOT like being reminded that their cherished views on history and our current country and government is dead wrong.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:44:06 PM EST
I'd like to see Popeye is Assramistan taking out the Taliban ! Or in Iraq kicking the shit out of Saddam !!! Or getting ahold of Osama Binladen in Packitinyourassastan !!These would be classics !
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:55:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 8:57:34 PM EST by cyrax777]
the one i wish i could find is the japanese one with the stuffed animals fighting and winning wwII. "Momotaro: The Holy Soldier of the Sea" "MOMOTARO was ordered destroyed by the U.S. occupation forces; thought to be lost until 1984, the legendary film has almost two pages devoted to it in John Dower's classic study of propaganda WAR WITHOUT MERCY: RACE AND POWER IN THE PACIFIC WAR. "Seo's work, of considerable artistry, could be called "Richard Scarry's Busy, Busy Empire"--MOMOTARO begins when cute animal cadets from the Naval Air force return to their home village to tell their younger brothers about the war effort. The story moves to one of their newly acquired Pacific island territories, where the native elephants and cheetahs are learning their new language, Japanese, and happily building an airbase for a strike on Singapore! Momotaro, the classic Japanese boy folk hero, shows up to command the invasion against this "Isle of Devils," and give a PATTON-like speech to the troops showing the history of Western imperialism in Asia. The climactic paratroop drop leaves for its target--and when the battle is over, MOMOTARO makes clear the next military objective will be the United States of America..." from the [url]animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=2906[/url]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 9:04:35 PM EST
I watched the clip in the 60's, on a b/w TV so I never knew it was really b/w
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 9:36:31 PM EST
Many of those you would have deported, actually WERE in the front lines in Italy, and were among the highest decorated AMERICAN units of WWII....
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True. The US Army's 442nd Regimental Combat team is the highest-decorated unit in the US Army in WW2, and its' enlisted ranks were comprised [b]solely[/b] of Americans who just happened to be of japanese ancestry.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 9:40:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 9:41:16 PM EST by cyrax777]
theres some good ones out there on kazaa. i just got the Disney one about nazi's its pretty good and in color to. its really funny to.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:47:35 PM EST
I've got one of the first Tweety's.Babbott and Catsello - A tale of two kitties.When the fat one falls on top of the skinny one, Tweety walks by and says, "Bweak it up puttytats,bweak it up." Love the old looney tunes.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 2:09:34 AM EST
It's sad that the old cartoons are being banned or censored because they do not reflect modern attitudes. It's media from a certain time period and reflects the social and political moods at that time. In this case, showing it's age is priceless. It allows us to view the world as those in the 1940's viewed it. It's far from being an American classic, but if you treated a piece of work by Steinbeck or Fitzgerald, or Mark Twain the same way because people thought differently during their eras, there'd be a riot. If every instance of insensitivity, misconception, or ignorance was removed from history, we'd keep repeating those mistakes. The Germans were ashamed of the atrocities of the nazis, and left alot of that out their history books. I bet there's people over there who think Hitler wasn't that bad a guy.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 2:40:04 AM EST
Times have changed! We got to move on. But with my last name ending in SKY, I've heard thousands of Polish jokes over the years. But...it's a Russian name. My Grandfather came over to the US to excape the Bolshevic Revolution in 1914. His village and house was burned down. My father grew up in NY and during WWII served in the Air Force in the Phillipines. Mothers side is Irish though. Both my parents told me about all the Polish and Irish jokes that they heard over the years while growing up. Now it's not Politically correct to tell any type of ethnetic joke. I still love those Popeye cartoons though. Rambosky
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 2:52:45 AM EST
Hope you don't mind me reminding you, many of those sent to camps were AMERICAN CITIZENS!! Many of those you would have deported, actually WERE in the front lines in Italy, and were among the highest decorated AMERICAN units of WWII....
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And more than a few of those Americans returned home to help Hirohito resist American aggression. I wonder how many Muslim "Americans" have returned home to help in the jihad against the great satan. Eddie
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 3:02:31 AM EST
I heard that a DVD box set is going to be released with all the old Looney Tunes sometime this year - if that's true, I am going to pick that one up.
As for the cartoon, I love the old cartoons, especially looney tunes. I wish I could find a place to buy these EVIL, BIGOTED, HOMOPHOBIC, SEXIST, RACIST, NON PC cartoons in their ORIGINAL AND UNEDITED CONDITION !!!! Before the pansy assed PC nazis got to them. BTW, anyone remember the disney movie "song of the south "?? Just try looking for it now. Disney will deny it ever existed.
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Link Posted: 1/9/2003 3:10:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By azcopwannabee: As a Victor, we are ALLOWED to talk about whos asses we have kicked. They NEED and SHOULD be ashamed of what happened. I agree the camps were UNNECCASARY, I would have prefered DEPORTATION or putting them in the front lines. We are all gonna suffer because we are not doing the same now to another AGGRESSIVE group. IMO.
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Hope you don't mind me reminding you, many of those sent to camps were AMERICAN CITIZENS!! Many of those you would have deported, actually WERE in the front lines in Italy, and were among the highest decorated AMERICAN units of WWII....
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[b]Sorry, Bubs, but you have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about![/b] The Internment Camps [u]were[/u] deemed [b]necessary[/b] by the military authorities in February, 1942, and, acting upon, first, a Presidential Executive Order, and then a bill passed by Congress, there was an 'exclusion zone' on the West Coast of the United States! And [b]ONLY[/b] on the West Coast of the United States! Had this been the 'racist' overreaction that the modern day liberals (and some of you!)would like to think it was, there would have been a general internment of Japanese Americans ALL OVER the United States. Put yourself in the shoes of the Military Commanders on the West Coast! They had absolutely no idea whether the Japs might land an invasion force on the West Coast of the United States. None! The Japanese Imperial Army was at that time spreading throughout Southeast Asia and the South Pacific in a very aggressive and successful manner, raping, looting, and killing civilians in their classic Japanese fashion! Had they turned their forces against the West Coast, mayhem would have occurred! As the civilian population departed the area, no doubt the Japanese would already have agents that would sabotage the American defensive positions, just as they did throughout Southeast Asia! (Anyone remember the 'Japanese Americans' and 'tourists' that kept Tokyo informed of the number and identity of US warships in Pearl Harbor, in the weeks leading up to the attack?) Imagine then, several thousands of Japanese Americans fleeing along with their fellow citizens, while stories of Japanese saboteurs, spies, and infiltrators, were being talked about! It would not be a pleasant thought! Think about how folks of Middle Eastern descent were viewed (and still are) by modern sophisticated folks like us in the present day, following September 11th, and remember there was no threat of an invasion by Osama Bin Laden! So, while the Japanese American internment may be regrettable, viewed from what we knew at the time, it was very NECESSARY! So, don't let me hear you folks making these same tired arguments again! Read your history and understand! Eric The(Professorial)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 3:21:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By azcopwannabee: As a Victor, we are ALLOWED to talk about whos asses we have kicked. They NEED and SHOULD be ashamed of what happened. I agree the camps were UNNECCASARY, I would have prefered DEPORTATION or putting them in the front lines. We are all gonna suffer because we are not doing the same now to another AGGRESSIVE group. IMO.
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Hope you don't mind me reminding you, many of those sent to camps were AMERICAN CITIZENS!! Many of those you would have deported, actually WERE in the front lines in Italy, and were among the highest decorated AMERICAN units of WWII....
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[b]Sorry, Bubs, but you have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about![/b] The Internment Camps [u]were[/u] deemed [b]necessary[/b] by the military authorities in February, 1942, and, acting upon, first, a Presidential Executive Order, and then a bill passed by Congress, there was an 'exclusion zone' on the West Coast of the United States! And [b]ONLY[/b] on the West Coast of the United States! Had this been the 'racist' overreaction that the modern day liberals (and some of you!)would like to think it was, there would have been a general internment of Japanese Americans ALL OVER the United States. Put yourself in the shoes of the Military Commanders on the West Coast! They had absolutely no idea whether the Japs might land an invasion force on the West Coast of the United States. None! The Japanese Imperial Army was at that time spreading throughout Southeast Asia and the South Pacific in a very aggressive and successful manner, raping, looting, and killing civilians in their classic Japanese fashion! Had they turned their forces against the West Coast, mayhem would have occurred! As the civilian population departed the area, no doubt the Japanese would already have agents that would sabotage the American defensive positions, just as they did throughout Southeast Asia! (Anyone remember the 'Japanese Americans' and 'tourists' that kept Tokyo informed of the number and identity of US warships in Pearl Harbor, in the weeks leading up to the attack?) Imagine then, several thousands of Japanese Americans fleeing along with their fellow citizens, while stories of Japanese saboteurs, spies, and infiltrators, were being talked about! It would not be a pleasant thought! Think about how folks of Middle Eastern descent were viewed (and still are) by modern sophisticated folks like us in the present day, following September 11th, and remember there was no threat of an invasion by Osama Bin Laden! So, while the Japanese American internment may be regrettable, viewed from what we knew at the time, it was very NECESSARY! So, don't let me hear you folks making these same tired arguments again! Read your history and understand! Eric The(Professorial)Hun[>]:)]
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Where were the German and Italian camps?
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 3:36:56 AM EST
Post from Johnny_Reno -
Where were the German and Italian camps?
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Do you think that ordinary Germans and Italians living in the United States were [u]not[/u] rounded up? Do a search and find out for yourself! Once again, the military authorities did not seem to have considered ordinary German and Italian Americans a great enough military risk to require the same treatment given the Japanese Americans in three Western States! Put a German-Italian Army in the vicinity of the East Coast of the United States and see how attitudes may have changed! I suppose [u]you[/u] would have fought WWII a lot better, smarter, more compassionately, more humanely, more successfully, huh? Yeah, right! Eric The(Astounded)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 3:39:55 AM EST
[b]BTW, did I forget to mention - F*** the Japanese![/b] When they admit to their inhuman atrocities, only then will forgiveness be possible! And they've had over 50 years to do so! Eric The(Impatient)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 4:03:17 AM EST
Very enjoyable cartoon.. Played for my co-workers who also got a heck of a laugh out of it
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 4:21:49 AM EST
I have nothing against Japanese people, but I bear a dislike for their culture because, to this day, they continue to lie to their children about WWII.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 4:30:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter: I have nothing against Japanese people, but I bear a dislike for their culture because, to this day, they continue to lie to their children about WWII.
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I understand your point of view, but while their culture played a great part in making their country act in the manner in which it did during WWII, those samurai swords, Ariska rifles, etc., used in the senseless murder of civilians, and captured Allied servicemen, alike, were wielded by Japanese individuals! And until they come clean, maybe 35 million Chinese civilians, and hundreds of thousands of Filipinos, Southeast Asians, Melanesians, Allied prisoners, nurses, and doctors, will not rest in peace. Nor will their descendants! Eric The(Forgive?Never!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 4:44:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By azcopwannabee: As a Victor, we are ALLOWED to talk about whos asses we have kicked. They NEED and SHOULD be ashamed of what happened. I agree the camps were UNNECCASARY, I would have prefered DEPORTATION or putting them in the front lines. We are all gonna suffer because we are not doing the same now to another AGGRESSIVE group. IMO.
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Hope you don't mind me reminding you, many of those sent to camps were AMERICAN CITIZENS!! Many of those you would have deported, actually WERE in the front lines in Italy, and were among the highest decorated AMERICAN units of WWII....
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Thanks, Duncan, You saved me a rant. Look up the 442 Regimental Combat Team, AKA the Christmas tree regiment. The most decorated unit in the army during WW2. Japanese Americans. Incidentally, ALL members of the 442 are Honorary Texans by act of Texas Legislature for saving the skins of a Texas Nat'l Guard unit.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 5:11:28 AM EST
So much for history.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 5:18:33 AM EST
Yes, thankfully, the 442nd was not guilty of murdering civilians and POWs! Was it their cultural heritage as Japanese or as Americans that kept them from doing so? Serious question. Eric The(RealSerious)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 5:44:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Was it their cultural heritage as Japanese or as Americans that kept them from doing so?
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What? No serious replies? No defensive answers? Hmmm. I must be living right, or something. Or is the answer just so fricking OBVIOUS? Eric The(All-American)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 5:46:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Yes, thankfully, the 442nd was not guilty of murdering civilians and POWs! Was it their cultural heritage as Japanese or as Americans that kept them from doing so? Serious question. Eric The(RealSerious)Hun[>]:)]
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Actually, a great deal of the Japanese-American soldiers came out of the internment camps. If nothing else, [b]that[/b] should be a solid indicator of their loyalty as well as an indicator of the threat they posed to the United States. Simply amazing really. If the country (in which I was a citizen) threw me in an internment camp and disposed of my belongings on the basis of my race, I don't think that I would have been lining up to pay them back with loyalty. The internment camps were an over-reaction by the US government based on the shock/fear generated by the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. Unfortunately, the US citizens of Japanese descent were very easily identifiable and thus, easy to target. Without having the benefit of time to look at the issue, it was understandable that the government and it's non-Japanese citizens felt this way. But, it was a mistake nonetheless. As far as Germans and Italians being rounded up...uh-uh...didn't happen. At least not to the great extent that happened with the Japanese. My parents grew up in a German/Italian community during WWII and not a single person was hustled off behind barbed wire because his name was Meyer or Guliani.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 5:51:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: I suppose [u]you[/u] would have fought WWII a lot better, smarter, more compassionately, more humanely, more successfully, huh? Yeah, right! Eric The(Astounded)Hun[>]:)]
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Nope. I'm amazed at the abilities and sacrifices made by that generation. I had a relative that survived the Bataan Death March and spent the rest of the war in a Japanese POW camp. I can't begin to imagine the savagery that he endured. The Japanese government still doesn't acknowledge it's atrocities and I don't think they will. However, I don't think that locking up [b]US citizens[/b] of Japanese descent helped his situation one bit...mainly because they were not responsible for his situation.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 6:12:25 AM EST
[b]Johhny_Reno[/b], I wished that you had read more on the roundup of German-Americans and Italian-Americans before you posted a response. There were approximately 120,000 Japanese Americans that were subject to Internment - and this only in areas of three states! Once again, if it was simply racial, why weren't East Coast Japanese rounded up? Hmmm? Now, for your history lesson, approximately 11,000 German-Americans and Italian-Americans were detained during the period of 1942 to 1945 here in America. While that is approximately ten percent of the Japanese-Americans interned, it is still a substantial number! The Internment Camps were not rosy pictures of peaceful Japanese-Americans tending bonsai trees and rock gardens. Nor of Germans and Italians cheerfully playing soccer! There were riots. There were demonstrations for the Emperor. There were Nazi and Fascist gangs organized. There was sabotage. Regretfully, American education neglects to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about this period in our history! But what of [u]my[/u] question? Why did the Nisei troops in WWII not commit the same horrible atrocities against civilians and POWs as their cousins in the Imperial Japanese Army and Marines did during the same period? Was it due to their Japanese culture or their adopted American culture? Answer that, if you please. Eric The(NeverForgive)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 7:27:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2003 7:29:47 AM EST by Johnny_Reno]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: [b]Johhny_Reno[/b], I wished that you had read more on the roundup of German-Americans and Italian-Americans before you posted a response.
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Dont assume a difference of opinion equates to a lack of knowledge.
There were approximately 120,000 Japanese Americans that were subject to Internment - and this only in areas of three states! Once again, if it was simply racial, why weren't East Coast Japanese rounded up? Hmmm?
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As I stated in a previous post, it was because of the the attack on Pearl Harbor - the west coast. However, as I also stated earlier, that doesn't justify locking up US citizens willy-nilly because of their ancestry.
Now, for your history lesson, approximately 11,000 German-Americans and Italian-Americans were detained during the period of 1942 to 1945 here in America.
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Okay, back to my previous question. Where were the German and Italian internment camps?
While that is approximately ten percent of the Japanese-Americans interned, it is still a substantial number!
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Exactly how many of these 120,000 Japanese-Americans were charged or convicted of treason against the United States. Surely they would have been prosecuted had it occurred. More importantly - what happened to the rights of these US citizens whose only crime was their heritage?
But what of [u]my[/u] question? Why did the Nisei troops in WWII not commit the same horrible atrocities against civilians and POWs as their cousins in the Imperial Japanese Army and Marines did during the same period? Was it due to their Japanese culture or their adopted American culture? Answer that, if you please.
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Sure, I'd be happy to answer that. It would be because of the westernized ideals of what constituted proper wartime behavior. However, your question reinforces my stand. These people were Americans. They fought like Americans and bravely fell supporting the Red, White & Blue. If their loyalty was to Imperial Japan, that wouldn't have occurred. Unfortunately, they were locked up because they shared a common lineage with another group that had attacked the United States. We convicted the cousin of the for the sins of his distant relatives.
Eric The(NeverForgive)Hun[>]:)]
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What exactly did they do that required your forgiveness? Attacked Pearl Harbor? Nope. Fought for the U.S.? Yep. Maybe we should be asking what happened to their rights as American citizens.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 8:32:36 AM EST
Post from Johnny_Reno -
Dont assume a difference of opinion equates to a lack of knowledge.
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Then answer your own damn question - 'Where were the German and Italian internment camps?' It certainly [u]appears[/u] that you don't know the answer. It's very easy to find!
Exactly how many of these 120,000 Japanese-Americans were charged or convicted of treason against the United States.
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They were not removed from military areas of the four West Coast states due to their treason, but, in the considered opinion of the military and civilian authorities of the time, due to military necessity! Don't you read my posts? Isn't that what I said in my preceding posts? Can you think of [u]any[/u] reasons why the authorities might not desire to have 120,000 Japanese-Americans hanging out on the coasts of the Western United States in case Japan actually tried to invade? And get the numbers correct, fercryingoutloud - of the 120,000 'Japanese-Americans' who were interned, 50,000 were actual Japanese citizens, who, under International laws at the time, could be lawfully removed, and 70,000 of their descendants who were American citizens!
Surely they would have been prosecuted had it occurred.
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Surely they were when it happened. A Japanese pilot, Nishikaichi Shigenori, from the carrier [i][b]Hiryu[/b][/i], crash-lands his Mitsubishi Zero fighter on the island of Niihau, Hawaii, on the afternoon of December 7, 1941. He surrenders to the islanders who disarm him and confiscate his papers but, isolated as they are, know nothing of the attack on Pearl Harbor. "Peaceful and friendly," Nishikaichi is not kept in custody but is allowed to roam the island unguarded. He was later aided by a Japanese American, a US citizen, named Harada, who armed the Japanese pilot. Harada then threatened the lives of innocent Hawaiians who were just figuring out that a war was even going on. The only reason Harada was not arrested, charged and convicted of treason was that he shot himself to death prior to being apprehended. Stories such as this did nothing to lessen the fears that America and its military commanders had regarding the Japanese nationals on the West Coast!
More importantly - what happened to the rights of these US citizens whose only crime was their heritage?
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Ever read the US Constitution? Did you notice that during times of war and civil insurrection the rights afforded to citizens can be curtailed? Well, in February, 1942, we were at war.
It would be because of the westernized ideals of what constituted proper wartime behavior.
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Amen! And the fact that the Nisei went off to war to fight on behalf of America seems to me to mean that they understood that, notwithstanding the treatment of their kinfolks back on the West Coast, the United States was still the best place on earth to live and damn well worth fighting for! If they didn't complain then, why should you now?
These people were Americans. They fought like Americans and bravely fell supporting the Red, White & Blue. If their loyalty was to Imperial Japan, that wouldn't have occurred. Unfortunately, they were locked up because they shared a common lineage with another group that had attacked the United States. We convicted the cousin of the for the sins of his distant relatives.
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[u]Who[/u] are you talking about now, Francis? You seem to be getting the interned Japanese Americans mixed up with the non-interned Japanese Americans who went to war! Get a grip and delineate as to whom you are referring!
What exactly did they do that required your forgiveness?
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Nisei Japanese American soldiers who fought on our behalf in WWII? Nothing! They do not owe me or anyone else an apology. The Imperial Japanese Army and Marines who committed untold atrocities against American servicemen and women, civilians, missionaries, and all sorts of other folks, and the nation that refuses to say anything against what occurred, everything! They suck, their nation sucks, and always will suck until they come clean!
Maybe we should be asking what happened to their rights as American citizens.
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War happened. It cost American fighting men and women...approximately 345,000 lives and countless casualties. I am certain that many of those American dead and wounded may have wished for the option to go into an internment camp for less than three years! War is Hell, after all. Eric The(NeverForgetOrForgive!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 8:49:18 AM EST
Whoa! Little known fact - Canada did the same thing to its citizens of Japanese descent! Who would have guessed it was contagious? Eric The(Serious)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 8:53:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2003 9:01:25 AM EST by Max_Mike]
Sorry Hun but the interment camps were purely economically retaliation against people who never did anything wrong. If you look deep into the matter you will find the call to first inter Japanese Americans (and confiscate their property for pennies on the dollar) came from the California Farmers Association. That is exactly what happen: the Japanese Americans were interred and their farms were confiscated to the great benefit of white CA farmers who did not want to compete with the Japanese farmers (and also ended up with their land). The Japanese Americans were told at the time: [b]No Japanese need sacrifice any personal property of value. If he cannot dispose of it at a fair price, he will have opportunity to store it prior to the time he is forced to evacuate by Exclusion Order. Persons who attempt to take advantage of Japanese evacuees by trying to obtain property at sacrifice prices are un-American, unfair, and are deserving only of the severest censure.[/b] [i]But there was only one instance of intervention by the Farm Security Administration and Japanese Americans property was basically stolen.[/] You will also find out [i]J. Edgar Hoover opposed the interment of Japanese Americans[/i] because the FBI had determined (before the interment) that they were no threat. Hoover who is supposedly one of the most racist people who ever lived never believed that Japanese Americans did not need to be interred. Hoover believed that German and Italian American who were Axis sympathizers were the greater threat. By the way no incident of spying, sabotage, or any other action detrimental to the war effort has ever been linked to Japanese American on the main land (both before and after interment). The same cannot be said of some German and Italian American. (I am of Italian decent). If you do look at the matter clearly it becomes quickly apparent that the most politicians and military did not believe the internment was needed but went along because it was politically expedient. And if your reasoning behind why Japanese Americans no the main land were interred why were most Japanese Americans in the Hawaiian Islands not interred. Would not they have been just as great or greater threat in Hawaii. The answer is the Japanese Americans in Hawaii supplied most of the cheap labor on the islands, again basic economics. Yes… read your history and understand, but do it with a clear mind! Forget what you think you know and find the truth even if it is ugly. Japanese American internment was more than regrettable, viewed from what we knew at the time, was in NO WAY NECESSARY! Hun you are generally right on target but this time you are just wrong. I guess no one is perfect after all even the great HUN.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 9:01:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2003 9:03:44 AM EST by Johnny_Reno]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Ever read the US Constitution? Did you notice that during times of war and civil insurrection the rights afforded to citizens can be curtailed?
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Let me give you a hypothetical then. Let's say that instead of a Hun, your surname was Amin or Rasheed. You were born in this country and have a local market. You have worked hard and prospered under it's ideals. You've joined the great melting pot and you're a good American. Now, let's say that this February, the President says that you pose too great a threat with the upcoming war in Iraq. Now, they're coming to get you and your family. Your market? - sorry, it's not allowed. That has to go too. What would you reaction be? Would you say "Gee, I guess I must be a threat. I should be interned until they don't think I am anymore. It serves me right. I shouldn't have been born the way I am."
And the fact that the Nisei went off to war to fight on behalf of America seems to me to mean that they understood that, notwithstanding the treatment of their kinfolks back on the West Coast, the United States was still the best place on earth to live and damn well worth fighting for! If they didn't complain then, why should you now?
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They didn't complain? Yes, they did. It just fell on deaf ears...and why should I complain? Well, if an injustice is not unveiled, it stands a greater chance of occurring again.
[u]Who[/u] are you talking about now, Francis? You seem to be getting the interned Japanese Americans mixed up with the non-interned Japanese Americans who went to war! Get a grip and delineate as to whom you are referring!
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Most of the troops came straight out of the internment camps. You might want to get a grip yourself. Oh, and my name isn't Francis. Thanks for the condescension though.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 9:07:19 AM EST
[b]OMIGAWD![/b] Now we hear from the 'class warfare' contingent of the AR15.com Board! Post from Max_Mike -
You will also find out J. Edgar Hoover opposed the interment of Japanese Americans because the FBI had determined (before the interment) that they were no threat.
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Is that the very same J. Edgar Hoover who refused right up until the mid-Sixties to even acknowledge that there was such a thing as the Mafia or 'organized crime'? Yes, unfortunately, it is! And the reason that in Hawaii, the Japanese were not interned is because the entire island chain was under military command throughout the war! The movement of Japanese Americans from island to island WAS in fact curtailed and severe restrictions were imposed upon them.
Japanese American internment was more than regrettable, viewed from what we knew at the time, was in NO WAY NECESSARY!
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Sez you! Now, after we have realized that the Japanese were not as big a threat to the West Coast as we thought they were during the early stages of the war! But so what? War means a lot of things. It means drafts, it means rationing, it means a loss of a lot of rights. No one can convince me that the Japanese Americans suffered UNDULY from what was done, or that their sacrifices were any greater than those undergone by most American families who had family off at war! They should have stopped their Emperor worship once they reached Manzanar, but they couldn't quite bring themselves to do it! How desparate! How obscene! Worshipping the very man in whose name thousands of young American service men and women were being killed, wounded, tortured, imprisoned, worked to death, beaten and starved beyond all human endurance. Excuse me, while I mourn for those who truly are deserving of it! You are perfectly free to regret what you wish, I will regret what I wish. It's the American way! Eric The(NeverEverForgive!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 9:33:14 AM EST
Post from Johnny_Reno -
Let me give you a hypothetical then. Let's say that instead of a Hun, your surname was Amin or Rasheed. You were born in this country and have a local market. You have worked hard and prospered under it's ideals. You've joined the great melting pot and you're a good American.
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Sounds great! So what?
Now, let's say that this February, the President says that you pose too great a threat with the upcoming war in Iraq.
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I take it to Court just as the interned Japanese Americans did! One of the most important of the legal challenges to the internment policy was [i][b]Korematsu v. U.S.[/b][/i], a case brought by Fred T. Korematsu, a Nisei (an American-born person whose parents were born in Japan). Korematsu had been arrested by the FBI for failing to report for relocation and was convicted in federal court in September 1942. The case finally landed in the United States Supreme Court in 1944. Guess what it held? (Hold onto your beanie, Cecil!) It was lawful. It was permissible. It was the right thing to do at the time! The U.S. Supreme Court, in a 6–3 decision, upheld Korematsu’s conviction in late 1944. The majority opinion, written by Justice Hugo Black, rejected the plaintiff’s discrimination argument and [b]upheld the government’s right to relocate citizens in the face of wartime emergency![/b] Let's read a little from the opinion.... "One of the series of orders and proclamations, a curfew order, which like the exclusion order here was promulgated pursuant to Executive Order 9066, subjected all persons of Japanese ancestry in prescribed West Coast military areas to remain in their residences from 8 p.m. to 6 a.m. As is the case with the exclusion order here, that prior curfew order was designed as a 'protection against espionage and against sabotage.' In [i][b]Kiyoshi Hirabayashi v. U.S.[/b][/i], we sustained a conviction obtained for violation of the curfew order. The [i][b]Hirabayashi[/b][/i] conviction and this one thus rest on the same 1942 Congressional Act, [56 stat. 173, 18 U.S.C.A. §97 (a)], and the same basic executive and military orders, all of which orders were aimed at the twin dangers of espionage and sabotage. . . . "Here, as in the [i][b]Hirabayashi[/b][/i] case, [b]we cannot reject as unfounded the judgment of the military authorities and of Congress that there were disloyal members of that population, whose number and strength could not be precisely and quickly ascertained. We cannot say that the war-making branches of the Government did not have ground for believing that in a critical hour such persons could not readily be isolated and separately dealt with, and constituted a menace to the national defense and safety, which demanded that prompt and adequate measures be taken to guard against it.[/b] "Like curfew, exclusion of those of Japanese origin was deemed necessary because of the presence of an unascertained number of disloyal members of the group, most of whom we have no doubt were loyal to this country. It was because we could not reject the finding of the military authorities that it was impossible to bring about an immediate segregation of the disloyal from the loyal that we sustained the validity of the curfew order as applying to the whole group. In the instant case, temporary exclusion of the entire group was rested by the military on the same ground. . . . "We uphold the exclusion order as of the time it was made and when the petitioner violated it. Compulsory exclusion of large groups of citizens from their homes, except under circumstances of direst emergency and peril, is inconsistent with our basic governmental institutions. [b]But when under conditions of modern warfare our shores are threatened by hostile forces, the power to protect must be commensurate with the threatened danger.[/b] "Korematsu was not excluded from the Military Area because of hostility to him or his race. [b]He was excluded because we are at war with the Japanese Empire, because the properly constituted military authorities feared an invasion of our West Coast and felt constrained to take proper security measures, because they decided that the military urgency of the situation demanded that all citizens of Japanese ancestry be segregated from the West Coast temporarily, and finally, because Congress, reposing its confidence in this time of war in our military leaders—as inevitably it must—determined that they should have the power to do just this. There was evidence of disloyalty on the part of some, the military authorities considered that the need for action was great, and time was short. We cannot—by availing ourselves of the calm perspective of hindsight—now say that at that time these actions were unjustified."[/b] Affirmed. Mr. Justice Frankfurter, concurring. "According to my reading of Civilian Exclusion Order No. 34, it was an offense for Korematsu to be found in Military Area No. 1, the territory wherein he was previously living, except within the bounds of the established Assembly Center of that area. . . . "The provisions of the Constitution which confer on the Congress and the President powers to enable this country to wage war are as much part of the Constitution as provisions looking to a nation at peace. . . . "And being an exercise of the war power explicitly granted by the Constitution for safeguarding the national life by prosecuting war effectively, I find nothing in the Constitution which denies to Congress the power to enforce such a valid military order by making its violation an offense triable in the civil courts. To find that the Constitution does not forbid the military measures now complained of does not carry with it approval of that which Congress and the Executive did. That is their business, not ours."
Now, they're coming to get you and your family. Your market? - sorry, it's not allowed. That has to go too. What would you reaction be?
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I would fight it, but then, so did the Japanese Americans, right?
Would you say "Gee, I guess I must be a threat. I should be interned until they don't think I am anymore. It serves me right. I shouldn't have been born the way I am."
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This part of your post is, frankly, idiotic! I hope you don't mind me pointing that out, do you? So sue me! [:D]
Most of the troops came straight out of the internment camps.
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Nonsense! Pure bunk! Show me that, Sir!
Oh, and my name isn't Francis.
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It was an honest mistake on my part!
Thanks for the condescension though.
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Anytime! Anytime I find views and opinions that need to be shown condescension, expect condescension! It's just the way I am! Eric The(NeverForgiveOrForget!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 9:40:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2003 9:49:28 AM EST by RichinCM]
We're forgetting the true enemy, which is a liberal in the Executive office that is more prone to unconstitutional acts like internment than conservatives. History is full of examples of men who engaged in such behavior, like Lincoln, Wilson, and F. Roosevelt. However, we as a nation are fully entitled to detain any citizen of a nation we are at war with.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 10:32:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Guess what it held? (Hold onto your beanie, Cecil!) It was lawful. It was permissible. It was the right thing to do at the time!
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It was deemed lawful by the court. However, as our courts show us everyday, legal and ethical are not one and the same. But, as this thread doesn't appear to be convincing either of us to change our position, I'll leave it at that. This thread has inspired a new sigline for me though.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 10:44:48 AM EST
Well, I thought I said that while I would sue for anything done to me in the name of national security, I doubt that I would have much success. See [i][b]Korematsu vs. US[/b][/i] So, I'm not 'giving away' the rights of any others that might not also be taken from me! Hmmm, [b]Johnny_Reno[/b], how about the sig-line: [size=4]It's even easier to second guess the wisdom of the others![/size=4] BTW, the 'survivors' of the internment camps were paid a sum of money a few years back. Do you know how much each one received? {Like we were shooting them or something) No, I thought not! [:D] Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 10:58:22 AM EST
I guess someone will defend anything. The japanese internment was a crock of shit, should have never happened. I have a personal thing in this as well. My grandfater was imprisoned or "interned" as you like to call it. Fucking funny thing is, he was not japenese at all, he was korean. He died in the prison camp, from an head injury sustained while he was resisting "internment". Thing is, the government didn't care if he was japanese or korean, the slanted eyes and yellow skin was "close enough". He was not the only korean or non-japanese prisoner either. This is all I will say on this as I alrady feel my blood boiling and any further comments on my part won't be friendly.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 11:22:01 AM EST
Holy highjacking Batman!
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