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Posted: 1/3/2003 11:13:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2003 11:14:31 AM EST by Bostonterrier97]
AP story from [url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030103/ap_on_re_us/tracking_travelers_2[/url] WASHINGTON - [b]Millions of travelers arriving and departing the United States will have to submit detailed personal information this year under rules proposed by the federal government Friday as part of the war on terrorism.[/b] [b]The rules proposed by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, once they are finalized, seek more information from travelers than under current law [red]and for the first time extend the requirements to U.S. citizens and others previously exempted.[/red][/b] [b]All airlines, cargo flights, cruise ships and other vessels carrying crew or passengers will be affected, with the exception of ferry boats.[/b] The information will be sent [b][red]electronically to the government before[/b][/red] a traveler arrives in the United States or departs from it, giving officials a [b]complete manifest of exactly who is on board.[/b] "It's another way to enhance security for travelers," said INS spokeswoman Kimberly Weismann. The changes were mandated by broad border security legislation that passed Congress overwhelmingly and was signed into law May 14 by President Bush (news - web sites). The law also tightened rules regarding issuance of visas to visitors and students coming to the United States and adding more Border Patrol officers, among other things. For years, international travelers have been required to fill out forms detailing their arrival and departure from countries around the world. The U.S. government, however, has not previously required its own citizens to submit such forms. Canadians, permanent resident aliens and certain other people were also exempted. The proposed INS rule would require all passengers arriving or departing, as well as crew members, to provide this information: name; date of birth; citizenship; sex; passport number and country of issuance; country of residence; U.S. visa number and other details of its issuance; address while in the United States; and, where it applies, alien registration number. The law also gives Attorney General John Ashcroft (news - web sites) leeway in proposing further requirements. In the INS rule, Ashcroft has added a proposed "passenger name record" for airlines that will enable the government to better match a departure record with one for an arrival. Once the information is collected, it will be transmitted to the U.S. government and matched against "the appropriate security databases" prior to the travelers' arrival. Anyone who raises a red flag regarding terrorism or other law enforcement concern could be met by officials when the ship or plane arrives in this country. That computer system is still being developed, meaning the rules will probably take full effect later this year. The INS estimates they will affect 108 large commercial air carriers and ship lines, as well as more than 14,400 smaller carriers of both kinds. Initial costs to the private sector in complying with the rules are pegged at $166 million.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 11:21:44 AM EST
By the way..I think that it is only a matter of time before the US government (in a move reminescent of the old Stalinist Soviet Union) requires [b]Internal Passports for State to State travel.[/b] Note: since this WOULD be part of regulating interstate commerce..it would be a perfectly constitutional move on part of the Federal Government. Since we now have powerful computers and sophiticated database software..it would be easy to keep an interstate "manifest" of motorists. Already State Governments provide a means of registering a person's address location (available to any police officer) each time a person moves..through your State's DMV. It would also be very easy to require that tourists who stay at any motel or hotel to electronically register.. This way not only will Federal Government agencies will be able to know where a person lives but will also be able to track their movenments. Information can also be gleaned from using ATM or Credit Cards at Gas Stations and Stores.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 11:24:02 AM EST
another straw need to buy that m1a soon
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 12:03:50 PM EST
The fact the Feds would exempt ferry boats is an indication they don't believe terrorists will enter the US through Canada. That's a very astute assumption on their part. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 12:07:52 PM EST
I don't think they have the balls to do something that ordinary people would be affected by.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 1:24:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: I don't think they have the balls to do something that ordinary people would be affected by.
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WRONG! Ordinary People travel abroad, even crossing the border into Mexico for a little shopping is considered traveling abroad. They already are planning to electronically track US citizens in terms of where they travel. They WILL (in the near future) use future terrorist acts as a justification for tracking citizens and non-citizens internal movements (at the interstate level). Yes..it sounds like bad fiction, but then..25 years ago..so would asset forfiture laws, firearm waiting periods and background checks, and (as of 9/11) detentions without trial of US residents AND US Citizens.. It is all very surrealistic..like something out of a novel by Franz Kafka.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 1:43:35 PM EST
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick...
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 11:59:49 PM EST
Good. The sooner the 4th Reich is in power, the sooner the dissidents can be rounded up and dealt with appropriately.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 12:05:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: I don't think they have the balls to do something that ordinary people would be affected by.
View Quote
WRONG! Ordinary People travel abroad, even crossing the border into Mexico for a little shopping is considered traveling abroad. They already are planning to electronically track US citizens in terms of where they travel. They WILL (in the near future) use future terrorist acts as a justification for tracking citizens and non-citizens internal movements (at the interstate level). Yes..it sounds like bad fiction, but then..25 years ago..so would asset forfiture laws, firearm waiting periods and background checks, and (as of 9/11) detentions without trial of US residents AND US Citizens.. It is all very surrealistic..like something out of a novel by Franz Kafka.
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And at the point that interstate tracking is approved, then they will want intrastate tracking...how does it go? Something like; it is not enough to allow big brother, but you must love big brother...something like that.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 1:38:47 AM EST
What's next? "Heil Hillary?"
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 2:07:33 AM EST
DIGITAL ANGEL ID-GPS-MONEY Human Power Implant Micro-chip. BAN Implant Micro-chip in Humans. Papers. ^^^ [size=1]^ [url]www.Cures-not-wars.org/[/url] Truth Will Liberate Earth. [url]www.RKBA.org/antis/hci-master[/url]Allege 1993 feinstein/hci master plan PRETEXT for TOTAL Gun Freedom Confiscation Dis-Armament. [url]http://www.DigitalAngel.net/[/url]Revelation 13:18 ID-GPS-MONEY BAN Human Power Implant Micro-chip Never Again, Never Forget -- Seek the Truth , Liberate Your Mind -- We Are At War[/size=1] FIXED BAYONETS VX
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 2:37:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2003 2:37:46 AM EST by Redmanfms]
Government, providing further proof that it is completely unable to provide "protection," continues to smack the pig around for the crimes of the chicken. This shit should be applied to [size=6][red]MUSLIMS[/size=6][/red], not to those who haven't shown consistent terroristic tendencies, if it is to be applied to anyone at all.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 4:08:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2003 4:15:38 AM EST by Graffiti]
Originally Posted By Redmanfms: Government, providing further proof that it is completely unable to provide "protection," continues to smack the pig around for the crimes of the chicken. This shit should be applied to [size=6][red]MUSLIMS[/size=6][/red], not to those who haven't shown consistent terroristic tendencies, if it is to be applied to anyone at all.
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I think you forgot to add white males to the list. Lets see...Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma Federal Building), Ted Kazinsky (Unabomber), Eric Rudolph (Centennial Olympic Park Bombing), etc. just to name a few. If you want to discriminate, discriminate everyone equally.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 2:33:29 PM EST
Sort of depends upon what info they are collecting. Your name and home address? Or your bra size? GunLvr
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 3:54:22 PM EST
This is international travel. Not protected by any article of the Constitution or the Bill Of Rights. You have no absolute right to travel to a foreign country, much less to simply maintain secrecy over it. This has never been a right protected by the Constitution, nor was it ever discussed by the Founders. Only [i]intra[/i]national travel is protected. And untill the 14th Amenedment was passed there was nothing to keep the individual states from controlling travel of their citizens within their states and the 11 states of the old Confederacy did just that to free negroes. Free international travel and trade is something that the US has traditionally found to be beneficial in the past, so we permitted it. But there is no law to protect a individuals right to it. If they had jetliners in the 18th century, maybe there would have been, but they didn't so their isn't. And if there is more benefit for eliminating privacy for international travel, and the reduction in travel that will probably incur, over the free travel we have enjoyed in the past then it will happen. If you don't like it, then act to get a law passed that prevents it. But don't act like you are being disinfranchised because you are not. Don't try to misrepresnt this as a Constitutional issue or a slippery slope for controls of intranational travel. That is not supported by fact or logic.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 4:52:03 PM EST
If ya don't want the gubbimint to know you're coming back in, just paddle your canoe over from Canadathrough the BoundaryWaterCanoeArea. It's beautiful and the smallmouth/northernpike fishing is freakin' awesome!!!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 4:57:32 PM EST
[img]http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/picturejokes/7610.jpg[/img]
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