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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/3/2002 11:56:02 AM EDT
A quick question,...in the movie "Courage Under Fire" ([i]goofy fictional story of female SAR pilot, KIA in Desert Storm[/i]) The Huey Medivac chopper door gunner was armed with an SAW on slings...Are, (or were) SAWs in fact EVER employed in this fashion?...Or was this B.S. I can see reasons why this depiction could be either accurate, or inaccurate. (If the door gunner was going to be leaving the chopper with the rest of the crew as the SAW gunner maybe?)
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:04:59 PM EDT
The Pentagon probably wouldn't supply the necessary Blackhawks for the movie--either because the script wasn't good PR for them or the producers didn't want to cough up the dough to cover operating costs. The Pentagon is very PR concious when it comes to movies. With out the DoD's help, the only option left to the producers are Hueys hired from a helicopter service. Unlike Huey's, there aren't a lot of Blackhawks on the surplus market and they aren't sold commercially.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:13:11 PM EDT
If you watch the movie again, you'll see that the gunner was not on the helo crew. He was a grunt who played poker with the crew and wanted to tag along.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:18:27 PM EDT
Umm,...Im pretty sure the military still uses newer Hueys for SOME purposes...or at least in the time period the movie took place...(and the pentagon had no problem providing A-10s, and I think I saw Apaches also) But...I wasn't actually questioning the use of the Huey...I was questioning the use of the SAW in the door on slings as opposed to an M60.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:30:40 PM EDT
The A-10's and Apache's were computer-generated, IIRC...
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:38:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod: The A-10's and Apache's were computer-generated, IIRC...
View Quote
Okay, whatever...but [b]ARE, OR WERE M249s EVER SLUNG IN THE DOORS OF HUEYS ?[/b] is what I want to know.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:46:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 1:25:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 1:36:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest:
Im pretty sure the military still uses newer Hueys for SOME purposes...or at least in the time period the movie took plac
Uhh No. To be more precise Hueys are no longer being used - they have exceeded their expected life expectancy (and some) and their programs are no longer funded.
View Quote
Shhhh, don't tell the Marines. Or any of the Guard or Reserve guys who fly Hueys every day.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 1:44:32 PM EDT
Even back in '91, I never saw Huey's armed with SAWs, and very infrequently M60s. Most Hueys still in the inventory of active units were strictly transports for VIPs (low-level VIPs, at that) or specific roles like Medevac. Wasn't the Huey in the movie a Medevac bird? If so, then you'd NEVER see a SAW or M60 slung on that.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 1:46:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 1:47:07 PM EDT
Holy Sheep Shit. Wonder what the hell that thing I was flying in all last weekend was? Sure looked, felt and smelled like a Huey to me [:D] Not sure about the SAW, but if an aircraft does not have gun mounts installed you can use bungee cords to hand an M-60 from the top of the door frame. I suppose you could do thte same with a SAW. It used to be pretty standard practice. Aviator [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Aviator%2Faviator%2Egif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 1:54:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2002 2:26:38 PM EDT by Forest]
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:00:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2002 2:02:46 PM EDT by JU88]
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:29:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2002 8:19:33 PM EDT by Kaesan]
Aren't the Marines upgrading their Hueys to UH-1Y, and SuperCobras to AH-1Z?[?] Back when I had cable, I caught a glimpse of a SAW (M249) with what looked like an M203 grenade launcher on it, is this common?[peep] Edit: changed a Z to a Y [;)]
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:33:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 6:47:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 5:26:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2002 5:29:10 AM EDT by Ross]
OK, let's kill a little mis-information. The UH-1 Huey is still used by the Army. It was used as a combat aircraft in the Gulf war as well. One of the Assault Helicopter battalions (6/101st) of the 101st was UH-1H, and remained so at least for a year after the war when I left the 101st. The CSAC of the 1st CAV (assault company that both Aviator and I were members of pre-gulf war) was a UH-1H company all through the war and didn't switch to UH-60 until about 9-10 mos of returning home from the Gulf. I flew down to Ft Hood and we picked up three of them and flew them back to Ft Campbell for use by the 6th Battalion. The CAV left one aricraft (tail number 207, which was a known POS that couldn't be fixed by anyone) in the desert in Saudi Arabia as a write-off. (That wasn't a waste of tax dollars, it was probablly the best savings of tax dollars I'd ever heard of...but I digress). Our Max gross weight in the UH-1H was 9500lbs, the aircraft weighed about 7600lbs wet, empty. that went down quickly with ambient temp/altitude. While the number of PAX (passengers) would be higher than the stated "one", it wouldn't be that much more. At NTC we usually had to use two ships to transport a 6 man LRSD team with two observer/controllers. That meant a total of 7-8 or so total folks (PAX + crew) in the aircraft with all their Army crap. A total of 6 or even less would not be out of the question. One thing the Huey didn't have was lots of power in hot/high conditions. For the duration of the war, the max gross weight was raised to a 10,000lb allowable for combat operations. The overridding consideration was the engine power at that temp and PA (Pressure Altitude). That was the limiting factor, and not the Max allowable. The UH-1H was used as a combat helicopter all through the gulf war. Come on! It's not like the Huey had a bad reputation in combat, or was unproven or something. ALL of ours in the 1st CAV had been through Vietnam and most had been shotdown and rebuilt at some point in the war. They were true combat veterans that still did their duty IN COMBAT! The UH-1V is the medevac version. There a a couple differences, but the main one is the IR light is on a different spot, and it has a radar altimeter. As medical transports, NO medevac helicopter is armed with ANY doorguns. Personal weapons can be carried by the crew and used for self defense or defense of the patient, but NO DOORGUNS ARE ALLOWED (slung, mounted, or otherwise) on a "Victor" model. There is no such thing as a UH-1G. There was an "F" model used by the USAF that had a Sea King engine pointed backwards in it, but the only models in use during the Gulf and today are "H", "V", and "N" (twin engine USN/USMC/USAF). The USMC ones are bing upgraded. A "H" model is basically a "D" model with an L-13B engine and different transmission, instead of the L-11. The "M" model is a "C" model with an L-13B inplace of the L-11 as well. "B" models went out of inventory LONG ago. Like just post-Vietnam. I saw a "Mike" model gunship as late as early 1985. The main difference between the "C/M" and "D/H" is the size, and hydraulics/control system. The "Charlie/Mike" has far smaller cabin with a shorter tailboom. The dual hydraulics/controls/accumulator was carried into the AH-1 aircraft, and is still the same in that airframe. The AH-1G is basically a skinny "Mike" model Huey. Same drivetrain, same controls system. Far more technical and long winded, but as a former "Slug driver", I had to set the record straight. The answer to the original question is, "It's Hollywood BS." [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0MgBEPE8Qw4dgfXXB8SFOHRcyVK6MZEEjv9SYcMndd!qE­chxAdPPOFOiCD2vq3LXAl0v93KEMLLfbuLR0Z6Vysg/HueyROK(1).jpg[/img] Ross
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