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Posted: 11/1/2006 11:29:24 AM EST
I received this from my local gun shop owner and wanted to pass it on. This letter is from Jon H. Gutmacher, P.A. Mr Gutmacher is the author of "Florida Firearms - Law, Use & Ownership".

Here is the text of the letter:

----------------------- Quoted letter -------------------------
Florida Statute 394.458 states that it is a third degree felony for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. That means most Florida hospitals, and their surrounding areas. Here is the actual wording

“(1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services, under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purpose of this section
1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage
2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893, or
3. Any firearm or deadly weapon”

Since the statute includes the “grounds” of any such facility – parking garages and private roads would be included. There is NO EXCEPTION for “securely encased”. There is NO EXCEPTION if you are merely dropping someone off on the grounds. There is NO REQUIREMENT for posting of warning signs. The statute may also prohibit CWP holders, although that is up for grabs since Florida Statute 790.06(12) does not list this as a prohibited place. A recent FELONY ARREST of a CWP holder on this statute in a Melbourne hospital (authorities admitted he committed no crime other than having a concealed firearm on his person) is extremely disturbing, and indicates that the validity of any such arrest may have to be battled in the courts. Please contact your legislators to change this law, and see my website for additional details.

This attorneys website is: www.FloridaFirearmsLaw.com
-------------end of quoted letter--------------------------------


Okay this is Rotndad talking here: I am gathering that someone in Melbourne got caught with an otherwise LEGALLY possessed concealed firearm and was a concealed Weapon Permit holder. The officers arrested him solely on him having a weapon on the hospital premises. I am passing this along so our Florida members are aware of this little known statute.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 11:34:18 AM EST
Yeah, the arrest happened recently, but I haven't heard anything since. Upon reading the CCW laws, however, hospitals are listed as an area where you CAN carry unless asked not to. Looks like someone is trying to find loop holes...
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 11:39:54 AM EST
more felony laws= less gun owners
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 11:41:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 11:50:55 AM EST by klinc]
Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS 790.06

License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--



(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I see nothng about hospitals.... Checking on your statute


ETA:

Title XXIX
PUBLIC HEALTH Chapter 394
MENTAL HEALTH 394.458

Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.--



1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

(b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services under this part any article or thing declared by this section to be contraband, at any place which is outside of the grounds of such hospital, except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of such hospital.

(2) A person who violates any provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.



I believe the bolded will cover permit holders. I will continue as normal.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 11:45:13 AM EST
Jon Gutmacher, Esquire, is an EXPERT in this area and I own a couple of his books about Florida's gun laws. I also spoke with him a couple of times about gun laws when I ran for office.

Anyway - this is another example of the "pass enough laws and everybody will become a criminal" mentality of the extremists in our society and government.

This madness MUST STOP!!! Criminals, as in the "real" bad guys, will not bother to honor the laws of where they can and cannot carry a gun - or rape, or murder, or any other law. That is why they are BAD GUYS.

When some bad guy decides to exploit this "no carry near mental facilities" law - you can bet there will be a rape, or murder, or robbery that gets chalked up and used by the anti-RKBA types will use it to pass more anti-self defense legislation.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 11:49:44 AM EST
I've actually met Mr. Gutmacher Esq.; he's a gentleman and very knowledgeable about gun laws.

He will go to bat for you in a second in any gun case. The man is a jewel in CWP circles.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 11:51:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By klinc:
Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS 790.06

License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--



(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I see nothng about hospitals.... Checking on your statute


ETA:

1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

(b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services under this part any article or thing declared by this section to be contraband, at any place which is outside of the grounds of such hospital, except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of such hospital.

(2) A person who violates any provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.



He is talking about "Mental Health" facilities or Hospitals providing mental health treatment. Hospitals themselves are not off-limits, just those providing any sort of mental health care. Which would mean just about all of them I would imagine.

So now you have to know which Hospitals provide mental health services.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 11:54:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 11:56:00 AM EST by klinc]
Again pay attention to the bolded sections......

edit... sorry you quoted my unedited post
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 12:00:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By klinc:
Again pay attention to the bolded sections......

edit... sorry you quoted my unedited post


You're right, I was shooting early.

Still, I would hate to be the guinea pig on this case law.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 12:15:32 PM EST
You can bet that almost all acute care facilities have some mental health unit of some kind.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 12:30:49 PM EST
I think Mr Gutmacher is incorrect in his interpretaiton, but frankly, someone should contact the state government. They have been fairly cooperative in issuing statements on this sort of thing in the past.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 1:10:40 PM EST
Yeah the statutes certainly conflict with one another. Definitely looks like a court fight sometime in the future.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 1:21:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 1:21:55 PM EST by Admiral_Crunch]

Originally Posted By Kihn:
Yeah the statutes certainly conflict with one another. Definitely looks like a court fight sometime in the future.


They do not appear to conflict at all. The CCW carrier was within his rights to carry in the hospital. The hospital law clearly indicates that if the carrier is authorized by law to carry, then the hospital law does not apply.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 3:17:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 3:20:08 PM EST by Kihn]

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:

Originally Posted By Kihn:
Yeah the statutes certainly conflict with one another. Definitely looks like a court fight sometime in the future.


They do not appear to conflict at all. The CCW carrier was within his rights to carry in the hospital. The hospital law clearly indicates that if the carrier is authorized by law to carry, then the hospital law does not apply.


Well I'm saying Holmes Regional doesn't interpret it that way and hospitals usually have at least a few lawyers as staff. Someone was arrested and charged by Holmes interpretation of the law after posting the statute at their entrance ways so they obviously believe that their favorite statute supersedes the CCW statutes. It allows too much discretion for the administrator of a hospital to interpret and have the law enforced to their interpretation. I do believe it will have to be resolved in a court room myself.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 3:23:11 PM EST
I haven't had time to research it, but I believe that this section applies to Mental Health facilities either under the state Department of Health or private facilities under contract to the DoH.

I used to work at a state run forensic mental hospital, and firearms were prohibited on the grounds just like at a prison.

I think that it bears more investigation, but I don't have time right now. Maybe someone else . . . ?
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 3:26:07 PM EST
Meh. I think the law allows it but I'm glad I'm not the test case.

Same thing happened with switchblades and they had to change the law because it was interpreted wrong.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 3:33:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 2:18:43 PM EST by Kihn]
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