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Posted: 9/24/2004 3:59:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 4:00:00 PM EST by Winston_Wolf]
... The last chapter of the New Testament written by John to the seven churches of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamon, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea depicting his vision Armageddon of the end of the world.

... Is it possible that it is so hard to understand because it takes place so far in the future I can't comprehend it?

... Is there any decent literature out there that may explain it a little clearer?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:04:18 PM EST
I'm with ya.

I beleive my Scriptural bonafides are well established here, but revelation is a COMPLLETE mystery to me.

My thought is this - Revelation exists so that AS THINGS happen, we'll recognize them. In other words, we'll understand revelation WHEN it happens.

And not until.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:10:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Is it possible that it is so hard to understand because it takes place so far in the future I can't comprehend it?



it is hard to understand because "it" was seen by a person who had NO way of understanding and accurately describing WHAT he was seeing.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:16:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 6:16:37 PM EST by goodmedicine]
2 Tim 3.1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 Tim 3.2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2 Tim 3.3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2 Tim 3.4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2 Tim 3.5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.



Not exactly Revelations but this always made me feel time was close

GM
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:21:46 PM EST
WW,
Go to www.ucg.org/booklets/index.htm and order "The Book Of Revelation-Unveiled". It's free, and you can view other booklets you may want to order as well. No charge for literature.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:24:25 PM EST
I don't find it very hard to understand at all really.

The keys to Revelation are all within the bible. Matthew 24 and Daniel are good places to start.

Also, check out Endtime Ministries. I don't agree with everything that Pastor Baxter says, but you MUST here is explanation of the 4th trumpet (as prophesied in the book of Revelation). Most convincing interpretation of bible prophecy that I have ever heard!
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:27:35 PM EST
Armageddon is not the end of the world. It's the end of the world as we know it and the beginning of Jesus' 1000 year kingdom on Earth. As to why it's hard to uderstand, I echo the sentiment that it's because the person who saw it had no frame of referene with which to describe it.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:29:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
Armageddon is not the end of the world. It's the end of the world as we know it and the beginning of Jesus' 1000 year kingdom on Earth. As to why it's hard to uderstand, I echo the sentiment that it's because the person who saw it had no frame of referene with which to describe it.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...



.....and that was the plan. It says the answers were locked away until the end time, which we're approaching now. IMHO
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:34:13 PM EST
I always wondered what would happen after the thousand year reign? Start over?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:39:24 PM EST
IMO, one of the big messages of Revelation is that time is nothing to God, and nothing in His grand plan. Re-read it, and look at the verb tenses. Actions which are clearly (to us) in the future are described in the past tense in a book written by somebody who died nearly 2000 tears ago! I beleieve that Revelation lays out the history of the future, but more especially addresses the disregard God has for Time, which so governs and oppresses us. Revelation says that God's will is so very certain that it was accomplished before it was uttered.

If you keep your eyes open, Christianity is a wild ride.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:40:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By GoGop:
WW,
Go to www.ucg.org/booklets/index.htm and order "The Book Of Revelation-Unveiled". It's free, and you can view other booklets you may want to order as well. No charge for literature.



United, eh.. were you WWCG first?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:44:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 6:48:01 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
there will be alot of this going on...
























Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:44:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:49:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:

Originally Posted By GoGop:
WW,
Go to www.ucg.org/booklets/index.htm and order "The Book Of Revelation-Unveiled". It's free, and you can view other booklets you may want to order as well. No charge for literature.



United, eh.. were you WWCG first?



Yessirry, then some higher-ups tried to get "PC" and make up their own stuff, so there was a division. WW still exists, but we aren't part of it.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:54:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By GoGop:

Yessirry, then some higher-ups tried to get "PC" and make up their own stuff, so there was a division. WW still exists, but we aren't part of it.



Born and raised in it, parents stayed in until '93.. I know the whole sordid story. Let's just say now I believe in faith, not religion, and Herbert W. Armstrong is roasting his nuts off in hell.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:57:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 6:58:10 PM EST by GoGop]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
I trust very few folks' interpretation of Revelations, but I believe that I understand it to this degree - it can not be fully understood at the present time.
I disagree. I find it pretty plain, and easily understood.

I, personally reject any idea of a 'Millenial Kingdom' wherein Jesus Christ rules the nations from Jerusalem on THIS EARTH.
That's what it clearly states. Why do you reject it?

To think that this might be true would have the unpleasant thought that children born on earth during the Reign of Christ would later backslide into infidelity to the Son and acceptance of Satan.
What foolishness!
They'll be tought the truth, and allowed free choice just like everyone else. Foolishness?


When the Son begins to Reign, the will be no more sin. No more Satan. No more Sinners. And His Reign will take place in a New Jerusalem, in Heaven.
Not true. Satan and the demons will be locked away during the Millenium, but at the end will be cut loose for "a short time". The people during the Millenium will be able to disobey if they choose to. The new Jerusalem will be seen descending from Heaven, and will be where God and Jesus establish their government here on Earth.

That is the Kingdom of Heaven.

Not here on Earth! permanently here on Earth.

Eric The(Wholly,HolyOrthodox)Hun

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:57:51 PM EST
Revelation 12:14 "And to the woman (Israel) there was given two wings of a great eagle (The USA), that she might fly (perhaps literally) into the wilderness, into her place where she is norished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

Matthew 25:32-33 "And before him shall be gathered all NATIONS: and he shall separate them one from another, as a sheperd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand but the goats on the left."...................VS 45-46 "Then shall he answer unto them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, (Israel) ye did it not to me. And these (NATIONS) shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Try that one on for size. This book is deep. WAAY deep. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:58:08 PM EST
Eric, not to stir up trouble, but what about Revelations 20:1-12?

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:09:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
Eric, not to stir up trouble, but what about Revelations 20:1-12?

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...



Re 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Re 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Re 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:20:11 PM EST
If you realize that the book is making reference to Nero Caesar then it all makes sense.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:20:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 7:25:16 PM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:22:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:27:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:03:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
Eric, not to stir up trouble, but what about Revelations 20:1-12?

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...


Yes, indeed, grab one other verse out of those first 12 verses and tell me precisely what it means.

The 1,000 year kingdom might be nothing more than an instant, or an alusion to something else entirely.

Remember, But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8
This is why in other parts the Millenial reign of Jesus is referred to as "the Day of the Lord".

The Roman Church and others thought that the world would end around 1000 AD, since that was the supposed end of the Millenial Kingdom on Earth.

They were wrong, weren't they?

Nope. There is not enough understanding at the present time to definitively build an entire 1,000 year kingdom on such scant evidence as this.

Eric The(KeepingItSimple)Hun

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:25:48 PM EST
To us, a thousand years is as a thousand years and a day is as a day. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 3:40:47 AM EST
There are a variety of interpretations to the symbolism in some of the prophecies.

However, a good place to start is the beginning.

It starts out promising a blessing to those who read it, hear it, and take it to heart (Rev 1:3).

Spend some time reading the letters to the seven churches (Chapters 2 and 3). There is a lot of promise in there for those who persevere.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:10:43 AM EST
I don't really find it all that hard to understand, I think. Used to.
My understanding is that some big cosmic debris is going to hit the Earth during tumultuous times giving the "Antichrist" the opportunity to take control over much of the world. I would expect that people will be quite desperate. Most of humanity will be destroyed eventually and those left will rebuild the Earth. In the end, surviving humans will have to go to another planet to escape the destruction of this solar system.

Every generation thinks that theirs will see the "End" and gives alot of reasons why. Fact is, people are fucked up. Always have been, always will be. But we will not know it is upon us until it is, which fits the idea of cosmic debris hitting the Earth.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:41:13 AM EST
"WHAT THE WORLD IS COMING TO"
By Chuck Smith


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