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Posted: 1/13/2006 6:27:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:38:59 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]
I am just curious to see what the ARFCOMers like in a .308 rifle and what their reasons are for it.

I have no idea how to post a poll, Figured it out! The choices are:

FAL clones
AR-10 clones
M14 clones
HK G3 clones
Other

Assuming, of course, that we are discussing semi-auto weapons currently available to civilians. If you prefer a bolt action or something else, please file that under other and let me know in your response.

I have been thinking long and hard about a .308 rifle, and I am looking for ideas on which one to get. Currently I am leaning towards a nice DSA FAL rifle, but I want to hear the good and bad on the other listed weapons.

If you pick other, please tell me which weapon you are thinking of and why.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:31:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:34:27 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
I prefer the Armalite AR-10.

The good:
AR's are best for mounting optics.
Armalites have shown better than average accuracy.
Lifetime warranty.
Familiar controls.
AR15/AR10 interchangeable fire control parts.
AR15/AR10 interchangeable stock parts.



The "bad":
$39 - $65 new factory mags.
Bad "bubbified" mags -- have to be careful when buying used mags.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:33:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
I prefer the Armalite AR-10.

AR's are best for mounting optics.
Armalites have shown better than average accuracy.
Lifetime warranty.
Familiar controls.
AR15/AR10 interchangeable fire control parts.
AR15/AR10 interchangeable stock parts.

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=41074



Whats the skinny on Armalite mags and reliability?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:33:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:36:15 AM EDT by Hokie]
FAL because it's a reliable, affordable, accurate, battle-proven design that has a much better optics platform than the M1A. Throw in the price of mags, and there ya go.

As sweet a design as the AR10 is....it's out because you need an entourage of gunsmiths with you at all times to address reliability issues. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to correct my blasphemy. Interesting that a lifetime warranty is a necessary marketing tool. I'm suprised they don't stamp Armalite's tech support number into the reciever. Still a sweet looking gun though. I've owned one. It is an accurate sumbitch.

Of course none of the above reach the accuracy potential of a good 308 bolt action....

In any case, I choose not have a 308 rifle at all as I prefer the lightweight mobility of an AR15. If I need to hit something big and far away, I'll use my 270
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:33:45 AM EDT
Hmmmm. That is a toughy. It's a question of two rifles: The M1A and the FAL.

I'm going to say...the FAL.

Ease of maintaining, cleaning, and repairing.
Ergonomics (especially for lefties like myself).
Cheap parts, kits, and mags.
Easier to mount optics.
Gas system adjustability.
More proven (face it, it is)
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:35:32 AM EDT
I'm a romantic. M1a is a fine rifle... just not as easy to scope as I've heard others are.

I voted M14 clone, but I think you'd be very well served with an FAL too.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:36:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fiend:
Whats the skinny on Armalite mags and reliability?



New production mags were a non-issue at the SASS trials.

I currently have two mags, of my 40+, that are creating issues for me. I am about to rebuild them.

They were previously good to go.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:38:13 AM EDT
I like the FAL because it's cute. No other reason.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:38:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I have no idea how to post a poll, Figured it out! The choices are:



5 choice polls do not work right.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:38:19 AM EDT
The ACOG is a good sight and I think that mounting an ACOG on a .308 rifle is perfect for making use of the range that the .308 gives you.

I was initially thinking that a good FAL with an ACOG mounted on it would be a great mid ranged weapon. (Not that I would ever need something like that, but like Tina Turner said: What's need got to do, got to do with it???)
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:39:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I have no idea how to post a poll, Figured it out! The choices are:



5 choice polls do not work right.



Seems to be working fairly well so far....
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:40:57 AM EDT
I would have to say SA M21Tac
HK SR9TC those are my favorites because those are the two I have for semi 308'sand both reliable , eat any type of ammo, My next would be a KAC 25 but don't have one yet
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:41:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:42:27 AM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Seems to be working fairly well so far....



The graph will be correct, the number of votes will ALWAYS be the same for choice #4 and #5.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:42:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:44:11 AM EDT by 4_Rings]
I'm going to wait and see if the RRA .308 rumors turn out to be true before I buy another .308 AR, I ended up selling my BAR 10...

BTW-I voted M-14...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:43:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:43:51 AM EDT by macman37]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Seems to be working fairly well so far....



The graph will be correct, the number of votes will ALWAYS be the same for choice #4 and #5.



Right now the 4th and 5th choices are at 5.56%... what does that say?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:44:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:45:01 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
BTW, the FAL always wins these threads.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:53:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:54:45 AM EDT by CasualObserver]

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
BTW, the FAL always wins these threads.



There's a reason for that. The FAL is the best option of those fine options given. If your primary concern is accuracy, the M1A or an accurized G3 clone may be the way to go, but for unmatched reliability, cheap and readily available mags, all the custom hang-ons you could want and minute-of-bad guy accuracy, you simply can't go wrong with the FAL. Plus, the adjustable gas system helps with recoil for those fast follow ups. JMHO, YMMV.

CO

Edit for speeling
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:55:08 AM EDT
M14 clone because it is steel and walnut.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:55:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CasualObserver:
The FAL is the best option of those fine options given.



...

Opinions and assholes...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:02:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:08:36 AM EDT
M-14 clones. Best stock trigger (although AR-10s can have a match trigger added) and most accurate (FALs are hard to modify and I don't know about G3s). Highly reliable gas piston operation. Very durable - can use the rifle as a club and still shoot with it. The only downside is the high cost of buying and modifying one.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:11:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 7:11:55 AM EDT by G-CODE]
Until LARRYG sells me one of his 100% reliable AR-10's , I will stick with my homebuilt FAL.

My AR-10 had too many "phantom failures" to be trusted. I may try one again someday though.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:12:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 7:15:52 AM EDT by uglygun]
AR10.


Easily workable, easy to accurize, ergonomics and manual of arms similar to that of AR15 sibling.

And they make for great money pits just like the AR15. Only thing left for mine is backup sights.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:18:19 AM EDT
I have a DSA FAL built STG58, it is very nice, mags are cheap and it is very easy to clean. You can shot it very fast and stay on target espcially prone with bipod. However based on arfcom style one of each, I recently traded for a springfield M1A NM mid 80's pre ban, with mostly GI parts.

I think these are the best two choices, M1A and FAL. Then it comes down to what kind of shooting you are going to do.

Limited range use, matches, treat it like a piece of art, winner M1A.

Shot the shit out of it, treat it like a AK, winner FAL
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:22:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 7:23:03 AM EDT by macman37]

Originally Posted By erickktm:
I have a DSA FAL built STG58, it is very nice, mags are cheap and it is very easy to clean. You can shot it very fast and stay on target espcially prone with bipod. However based on arfcom style one of each, I recently traded for a springfield M1A NM mid 80's pre ban, with mostly GI parts.

I think these are the best two choices, M1A and FAL. Then it comes down to what kind of shooting you are going to do.

Limited range use, matches, treat it like a piece of art, winner M1A.

Shot the shit out of it, treat it like a AK, winner FAL



As much as it shames me to admit it, this is correct.

When I saw pictures of "Ol' Dirty" on FAL files, I knew the FAL was a SOLID platform. You don't see people wilfully doing that with their M1As.

It's like Glock vs. 1911... Glock guys are always "Torture-testing" their toys... 1911 guys (and I'm one of 'em) are always like "Good for you! But I'm not gonna do that!" Same goes for M1A guys (and I'm one of 'em too) and FALs.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:23:22 AM EDT
I like my LRB m14se over my g3 clone. It just fits in the shoulder a bit better, has better irons and the recoil is a bit smoother. I really wanna try an AR-10 though...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:28:48 AM EDT
One more thing that may seem obvious but I haven't seen it so far (since you posted a poll):

I think you should try to shoulder (and fire if at all possible) as many types of these .308s as you can...

For me, the M1A fits like it was tailored to my arms and body. Nobody can tell me an AR-XX has better ergonomics (FOR ME) than the M1A platform. The sights - to me - are also a hundred times better than AR sights.

For you... you might not fit the M1A, FAL OR AR-10...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:36:51 AM EDT
If Clones are our only choice, I would go with the M-14 Norinco Clone. I use it on Elk and has taken them down at 375 yards.

I do like the original H&K 91's but haven't tried the clones. I am thinking about trying the 91 on next year's Elk hunt but first I need to get a lot more practice in.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:46:34 AM EDT
The main question is what will be the primary purpose of the rifle.

1. Hunting: I recommend a bolt action. Personally, I prefer the SAKO Mannlicher. It is an excellent rifle with great accuracy, ease of use and maintainability. (don't rag on this next comment) My mother has had hers for 30 years and has dropped many deer with it. I also have dropped several deer with this rifle and have won quite a few competitions shooting this rifle.

2. mil type collector/shooter. Here we have a little variability. The AR10 as having a semi-auto with the modern looks, light weight (relatively speaking) and ease of maintenance/parts interchangeability. The FNFAL for reliability and the M1 for classic looks and accuracy.

What it all comes down to is personal taste. What you like the looks and feel of and what you feel comfortable working on/with. I would first get the bolt action for hunting purposes. For collection/range/looks, I would go with the AR10.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:57:37 AM EDT
When I got my FAL they are $400. Mags were $5. I was poor. I love this gun for chewing through uber cheap milsurp 7.62x51 ammo.

Then, I wanted something with a little more accuracy, more of a special purpose .308 battle rifle.... and got the AR10. LOVE it.

Now that FAL prices are going way up ($900 +) and there are so many options for the AR10, and AR10 mags arent that much anymore...... I say go AR10 all the way. The AR10 A4 with a light chrome lined barrel is sheer terror.... and wont cost that much more than the FAL's today.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:06:14 PM EDT
I love my FAL, but with Tromix making 20 round mags for the Saiga 308 I may have a new favorite.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:12:13 PM EDT
FAL, hands down. Reliable, accurate, cheap, and parts can be found everywhere.

Although a Saiga/VEPR 308 would be a close 2nd followed by the M1a.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:14:21 PM EDT
AR-10 and M-14
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:15:16 PM EDT
FAL
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:16:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:32:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
BTW, the FAL always wins these threads.



Yea , but the H&K 91 always works on the Range
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:39:18 PM EDT
welll i finaly gpt the opertunity to owen at least three of the choices

IMO
AR10
feels great, same relibility as any Ar15, great optics platform, great trigger choices, great inharient accuracy

STG58
also feels good, good trigger, ok accuracy around 2-3 I am assuming, my only issue is that it seems that they do not enjoy the after market support that the AR does in terms, of custom stuff like, triggers, stocks and barrels. yes they have some availible but not as much as the AR

SA loaded m1a built in 1988
feels like a hunting rifle which do doesnt impress me, new stocks MacMillian stocks are about 500 and the SAGE is in the same area. cool gun with a lot of history, too bad its just befor my time

too me the AR10 just feels best to me, im saying that either of the others are bad, the AR10 just fits me best
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:39:59 PM EDT
Having only shot a M1A and a G3 clone enough to really comment (I've shot a FAL but never a Ar10 varient), I'm going to go with the M1A. I felt the G3 had less recoil then the M1A, but the overall weight with the triangular furniture was just too much. The sights on the G3 were just too different for me, as well. Never could hit anything with it, though others did fine. The M1A I was able to adjust to fairly quickly. Aside from accidentally placing my right hand a bit too far back on the grip and catching my thumb into my eye socket, the rifle was comfortable and easy to use.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:46:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By erickktm:
I have a DSA FAL built STG58, it is very nice, mags are cheap and it is very easy to clean. You can shot it very fast and stay on target espcially prone with bipod. However based on arfcom style one of each, I recently traded for a springfield M1A NM mid 80's pre ban, with mostly GI parts.

I think these are the best two choices, M1A and FAL. Then it comes down to what kind of shooting you are going to do.

Limited range use, matches, treat it like a piece of art, winner M1A.

Shot the shit out of it, treat it like a AK, winner FAL



As much as it shames me to admit it, this is correct.

When I saw pictures of "Ol' Dirty" on FAL files, I knew the FAL was a SOLID platform. You don't see people wilfully doing that with their M1As.

It's like Glock vs. 1911... Glock guys are always "Torture-testing" their toys... 1911 guys (and I'm one of 'em) are always like "Good for you! But I'm not gonna do that!" Same goes for M1A guys (and I'm one of 'em too) and FALs.




Not sure about that. Israel had reliability problems with the FAL, and was happy to dump them.

It is not clear to me why people would want to test handguns or rifles as if they were machine guns. My handgun test revolves around quickly and accuratly hitting several close range targets.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:47:54 PM EDT
AR-10 because I have 3.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:51:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By G-CODE:
Until LARRYG sells me one of his 100% reliable AR-10's , I will stick with my homebuilt FAL.

My AR-10 had too many "phantom failures" to be trusted. I may try one again someday though.



Nope, you ain't getting them.

And they are 100 percent reliable once I weeded out the bad mags and replaced them.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:54:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigT:
AR-10 because I have 3.



4
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:55:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 3:01:28 PM EDT by DonS]

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
welll i finaly gpt the opertunity to owen at least three of the choices

IMO
AR10
feels great, same relibility as any Ar15, great optics platform, great trigger choices, great inharient accuracy



The AR-10 isn't the same as an AR-15, and doesn't have the same level of reliability. Keep in mind, current AR-15s have the advantage of years of mil-spec development, the AR-10 does not. The AR-10 does have the basic accuracy advantage of the AR-15, however.

Incidently, in Highpower the AR-15 has proven more robust than the M1A. That's match grade in both cases, but suspect it follow through to some degree with rack grade rifles.

My ranking:

Accuracy: AR-10.

Reliability: HK91.

Erganomics: M1A, FAL, or AR-10.

Cold War chic: FAL.

Competition: M1A AR-15
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:02:22 PM EDT
I would like to say G3, but the FAL beats it.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:12:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:23:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Para069:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
BTW, the FAL always wins these threads.



Yea , but the H&K 91 always works on the Range



lol


Cetme here,, only cuz i like old shit and its older than the HK g3/91 series!

Fals are ok, if i wanna brag about being the left nut of the free world
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:25:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:35:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:39:28 PM EDT
AR10 clones
my M14 clone failed horribly and my FAL clone just didn't do anything for me
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:42:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By G-CODE:
Until LARRYG sells me one of his 100% reliable AR-10's , I will stick with my homebuilt FAL.

My AR-10 had too many "phantom failures" to be trusted. I may try one again someday though.



Nope, you ain't getting them.

And they are 100 percent reliable once I weeded out the bad mags and replaced them.



at 50-60 dollars per mag before the ban ended there shouldn't have been ANY bad ones.



Not all were bought from ArmaLite. Those that weren't were the bad ones.

I can't recall, how much were AR15 mags during the ban?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:44:39 PM EDT
I own a FAL and an AR10, have extensively fired all 4 choices named in the poll.

If I could own only 1 .308 rifle for the rest of my life, it would be a FAL.
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