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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/1/2006 6:09:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:11:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:17:42 PM EDT
Sounds Good!
Letters outbound.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:27:12 PM EDT
This is especially good for people in DC area
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:35:22 PM EDT
Anybody have a sample letter I could copy on this?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:40:53 PM EDT
I hope this happens. I live in an area surrounded by National Parks and National Recreation Areas, some of the coolest terrain on earth, but I tend to avoid them because of that stupid regulation.

I'll draft a letter tonight, and get it off tomorrow.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 6:45:39 PM EDT by drjarhead]
Why in the Hell would you want to leave this up to the states?

Now, if you are one of the nutless arguing that the 2nd doesn't prevent the states from infringing on the RKBA but only the Fed Gov't, then this is a clear case where the Fed is clearly violating the 2nd. Hand it over to the states and there it goes.

I am opposed to this and suggest this might be a perfect SCROTUS case. Some Citizen shoots a couple of lowlife scum trying to assault them or a Griz attempting same and see how that one plays out.

Wrong ,wrong tactic.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:40:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 11:47:02 AM EDT by imposter]
.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:45:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Why in the Hell would you want to leave this up to the states?

Now, if you are one of the nutless arguing that the 2nd doesn't prevent the states from infringing on the RKBA but only the Fed Gov't, then this is a clear case where the Fed is clearly violating the 2nd. Hand it over to the states and there it goes.

I am opposed to this and suggest this might be a perfect SCROTUS case. Some Citizen shoots a couple of lowlife scum trying to assault them or a Griz attempting same and see how that one plays out.

Wrong ,wrong tactic.



I can tell you if this were left up to the Libtards of California, they would continue the ban.

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:53:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 7:54:08 AM EDT by SgtWhiting]
As a LEO here in Cali, I can tell you I am very familar with the ban on firearms in National Parks.

I carry anyway.

Let me tell you what I have found over the years.

I have met many Federal Ranger LEO types and most of them of pro-second amendment types for the most part.

They only have problems with the drunks and crazies who come into the parks from the cities, drink and fire off their guns for no reason.

I have had many Ranger LEO types tell me to go ahead and carry, just don't advertise.

This also included a Federal Magaistrate in Yosemite Valley.

In one case, my friend and I were backpacking into a freshly made "Bill Clinton Monument area" of Cali and the rangers insisted we carry. That's right, I did not make a typo, THEY INSISTED. They told us the mountain lions are out of control and they did not want to pack what was left of us out.

I cannot answer how it is in other areas, or for non-LEO types, but I hope the law is relaxed in favor of common sense and not politics as usual.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:21:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 11:43:10 AM EDT by imposter]
Some of my friends were attacked by mountain lions in a national park. Fortunately, they were violating the regs and could defend themselves. The guy was a poor shot, but he did scare the cat away!

Here is my letter to Gail Norton:

Dear Mrs. Norton:

I am writing in support of the Virginia Citizen's Defense League’s February 11, 2005, Petition for Rule Making to amend CFR 36, Regulation 2.4.

I am a resident of ********, Utah, which is virtually surrounded by National Parks and National Recreation Areas. That is one of the reasons I chose to live here. But there is one disadvantage to living in this area, and that is the National Park regulations preventing individuals from defending themselves. While there is no federal statute prohibiting individuals from carrying firearms in the Parks, the Park Service has regulations preventing individuals from carrying weapons (36 CFR 2.4). Despite the presence of the Parks and all they have to offer, I find myself avoiding them. When I was younger I spent many weeks in the backcountry of the National Parks, but now that I have a family I am reluctant to take them where I can not protect them. Many people I know have these same concerns and opt to ignore the regulations. It is my understanding that many park rangers simply look the other way as long as the firearm is unloaded, but I maintain that repealing or eliminating the regulation is better than arbitrary enforcement.

Beyond the 2nd amendment issue, which I am sure you appreciate, the regulations are bad policy. They establish a zone where criminals know that citizens will be entirely defenseless. There are numerous news accounts of violence in the National Parks, as well as accounts of criminal growing drugs there. While I appreciate the Park Service’s complaints that its rangers do not have the resources to deal with these threats, citizens are left in an even worse position: at least the rangers are armed and can defend themselves.

Many things have changed in our country since this Park Service regulation was put in place. First and foremost, crime has become a much greater problem. Second, states have begun to recognize that individual citizens play a valuable role in deterring and preventing crime. A majority of the states have passed “shall issue” concealed firearms laws. Initially, the proponents of gun control claimed that these laws would result in citizens gunning each other down in the streets. Of course that never happened, as the gun control proponents now grudgingly admit, and such laws have been shown to result in lower crime rates. Citizens have shown that they can be trusted to not misuse their right to protect themselves. Despite this recognition by states that individuals have a right to defend themselves and that they have a valuable role in the deterring and preventing crime, these developments have not yet had an impact on the National Park Service regulations.

I am writing to request that use you consider either repealing the regulations or modifying them to allow persons to carry concealed weapons as allowed by state law. Of course, all federal and state laws regarding who can legally carry weapons and the manner in which they can be used would still apply, and the Park Service’s ban on hunting would remain in effect.

Thank you for your consideration of this matter.

Respectfully Yours,

imposter


Biggerhammer has sample senator letters (Word/PDF) and congressperson letters (Word/PDF). GOA has a tool to get the contact information for your senator and congressman here.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:57:15 AM EDT
It would be a great idea.


Link Posted: 3/2/2006 12:06:41 PM EDT
I just carry anyway. Discretion is the better part of valor.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 12:14:16 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:00:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rxdawg:
I just carry anyway. Discretion is the better part of valor.



There ya go.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:06:30 PM EDT
Thanks
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:02:34 PM EDT
bump for night crew
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:23:16 AM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:40:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:45:41 AM EDT
This is for FEDERAL PARKS not state parks.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:46:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By rxdawg:
I just carry anyway. Discretion is the better part of valor.


When my wife and I lived in southern California, we would go to a couple of nice county/state parks around us. Right below the big sillhouette of a mountain lion on the warning sign was the notice: No firearms allowed. I decided to obey the higher calling of defending my wife and life.



Exactly. I have carried in the Smokey Mtn Nat'l Park, various other national and state parks. I have never been stopped or questioned. Just be very discreet, keep it well concealed, and keep your mouth shut.

I dont feel a compelling need to blindly follow a stupidass law that leaves me without a means of self-defense, especially when they post a "visit at your own risk" type warning.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:47:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
This is for FEDERAL PARKS not state parks.




It is expressly forbidden in TN state parks also, but might vary by state.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:49:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rxdawg:

Originally Posted By CRC:
This is for FEDERAL PARKS not state parks.




It is expressly forbidden in TN state parks also, but might vary by state.



Okay but this is dealing with NPS land only.

Carrying in state parks is irrelevant to this debate.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:52:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:53:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:

Originally Posted By rxdawg:

Originally Posted By CRC:
This is for FEDERAL PARKS not state parks.




It is expressly forbidden in TN state parks also, but might vary by state.



Okay but this is dealing with NPS land only.

Carrying in state parks is irrelevant to this debate.



Perhaps, but I take the same view regardless of who controls the park - local, state, or federal.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:13:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:
As a LEO here in Cali, I can tell you I am very familar with the ban on firearms in National Parks.

I carry anyway.

Let me tell you what I have found over the years.

I have met many Federal Ranger LEO types and most of them of pro-second amendment types for the most part.

They only have problems with the drunks and crazies who come into the parks from the cities, drink and fire off their guns for no reason.

I have had many Ranger LEO types tell me to go ahead and carry, just don't advertise.

This also included a Federal Magaistrate in Yosemite Valley.

In one case, my friend and I were backpacking into a freshly made "Bill Clinton Monument area" of Cali and the rangers insisted we carry. That's right, I did not make a typo, THEY INSISTED. They told us the mountain lions are out of control and they did not want to pack what was left of us out.

I cannot answer how it is in other areas, or for non-LEO types, but I hope the law is relaxed in favor of common sense and not politics as usual.



Unfortunately, non-LEO citizens do not always get the same courtesy when caught violating the law. Same story with DUI.

I always carry in the woods, even in CA, but I know that if I get caught it's gonna cost me 'cuz I don't have a shield to flash.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:20:02 AM EDT
Anyone who goes into the western US wilderness unarmed is a dumbass.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:52:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:39:55 PM EDT
I need your help in supporting the VCDL sponsored petition for rule making to amend CFR 36, Regulation 2.4 to allow law abiding citizens and off duty law enforcement officers to carry legal, defensive firearms in National Parks. This is the current rule in our National Forests and it works well.


i took that outta the sample letter posted.
forgive me for my ignorance, but i didnt think it was legal to carry in the national forest.
i was told by a fish and game officer here in florida, that you could only carry during hunting season and only if you had a valid hunting license. have things changed? what am i missing?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:54:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 5:57:24 PM EDT by 2hawk]
.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:20:19 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:59:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paranoidredneck:
I need your help in supporting the VCDL sponsored petition for rule making to amend CFR 36, Regulation 2.4 to allow law abiding citizens and off duty law enforcement officers to carry legal, defensive firearms in National Parks. This is the current rule in our National Forests and it works well.


i took that outta the sample letter posted.
forgive me for my ignorance, but i didnt think it was legal to carry in the national forest.
i was told by a fish and game officer here in florida, that you could only carry during hunting season and only if you had a valid hunting license. have things changed? what am i missing?



Often these guys are the last to know the regs. You might want to verify for certainty in FL but my understanding is that it is legal and that target shooting is allowed as well. In any event coyote and snowshoe hare are legal year round in WI.

We have a lot of predators up here in the Nat'l Forest and only city idiots wander around up here like they are in the local park. It was a good thing I was armed this day:



Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:16:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paranoidredneck:
forgive me for my ignorance, but i didnt think it was legal to carry in the national forest.
i was told by a fish and game officer here in florida, that you could only carry during hunting season and only if you had a valid hunting license. have things changed? what am i missing?


National Forests usually follow laws of the state where the forest is located.

A firearm may not be discharged in the following National Forest areas: (1) within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area, or (2) across or on a Forest Development road or an adjacent body of water, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result of such discharge. (36 CFR 261.10 (d))

There are some forests or districts which have additional restrictions which further limit discharging a weapon. Check with the local authorities.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:21:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NevadaARshooter:
Anyone who goes into the western US wilderness unarmed is a dumbass.




Anyone who goes into any wilderness unarmed is a dumbass. There's predators all over the country.

Hell, where we used to hunt in NEPA the owner told us to never go without a rifle because they'd had problems with wild dogs.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:59:36 PM EDT
National Forest Lands are usually subject to state laws and hunting laws at that.

Generally carrying guns outside of hunting season is not allowed- see your state's law.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:57:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 6:02:28 PM EDT by drjarhead]
www.packing.org/state/all_united_states/


Firearms in National Forests
After having a nice chat with a Pro gun National Forest Ranger with more than thirty years service here is what I found out about Firearms in National Forests.

If it is legal for you to carry a firearm concealed in the state the National Forest is in you can carry your firearm concealed in a National Forest in that state. If it is legal to carry a firearm openly on your hip in the state the National Forest is in you can legally carry it that way in the National Forest in that state.

Do be advised that any Ranger Station or Visitors Center in any National Forest is considered a Federal Building. It is illegal to carry any firearm into such a building either concealed or openly even with a CCW from the state the National Forest Ranger Station or Visitors Center is in. We did have a long chat and this Ranger told me that as long as people behaved themselves we would never know they had a concealed handgun any ways.



I open carry all the time and I've had local sheriff deputies drive by as I walking down my road into the Nat'l Forest.


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