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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 11/23/2003 3:10:13 AM EDT
Last week it was a fine against a business owner for having an ashtray visible, now this shit.

I used to think the PRK was full of psycho politicians but this is just off scale nuts.


www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/11205.htm

JOLTING JAVA FINES MAY SENDS JOBS TO JERSEY

By FRANKIE EDOZIEN

November 19, 2003 -- Small-business owners testified at the City Council yesterday that unfair fines - such as the one levied on a coffee company for producing coffee odors - are driving them to New Jersey.

The beleaguered businessmen told a joint hearing of the City Council Committee of Economic Development & Waterfronts that they feel left out of the city's economic planning.

"Nobody seems to care," said Donald Schoenholt, president of Gillie's Coffee Company in Brooklyn, who was slapped with a $400 ticket because the aroma of his coffee products could be detected from the sidewalk.

"They could come back any time and give us a fine or even close us for having a very ordinary fragrance that most human beings consider to be very fragrant. [There isn't] any other municipality in the world that uses their Clean Air Act against already roasted coffee beans," he added.

David Yassky (D-Brooklyn) said in the last few years the city has lost 100,00 manufacturing jobs.

"We're gone from having 350,000 jobs to 250,000. These are jobs that pay people a living wage. It is tough to do business in the city," he said.

Yassky proposed that the city partner with non-profits to manage industrial space following the model of the successful Brooklyn Navy Yard.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:24:14 AM EDT
They just need to pile their garbage out front on the street to mask the smell. [:\]
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:29:32 AM EDT
Just keep telling yourself the only issue is wages
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:14:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 5:14:44 AM EDT by De_Professor]

$400 ticket because the aroma of his coffee products could be detected from the sidewalk.


This is a crime against coffee drinkers!!!

It was probably done REALLY early in the morning before we had a chance to call the coffee army!



Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:29:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 5:32:00 AM EDT by Raynor_Schiene]
Get used to it. The liberals have educated several generations of lambs in the school system about how "diversity" is the answer to all our problems. (hint to the libs. it isn't!)

Until the children are taught what they are supposed to be taught in school (instead of all the kumbay-ya bullshit), then our society will continue to be nothing but cloned sheeple.

Kids get expelled nowadays for simply drawing two stick figures fighting! I use to sit at my desk and draw fighter planes shooting down "japs", "krauts", and even the kid in the class that I didn't like. And guess what? I have never shot or killed anyone, and never got in trouble for it.

I rarely curse, so excuse me for a second while I vent.... I FUCKING HATE LIBERALS AND EVERYTHING THEY FUCKING STAND FOR! FUCK ALL OF YOU LIBS AND THE POLITICALLY CORRECT WAGON YOU FUCKING RODE IN ON.

Sorry 'bout that. But I hate those guys!
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:34:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Raynor_Schiene:
Get used to it. The liberals have educated several generations of lambs in the school system about how "diversity" is the answer to all our problems. (hint to the libs. it isn't!)

Until the children are taught what they are supposed to be taught in school (instead of all the kumbay-ya bullshit), then our society will continue to be nothing but cloned sheeple.

Kids get expelled nowadays for simply drawing two stick figures fighting! I use to sit at my desk and draw fighter planes shooting down "japs", "krauts", and even the kid in the class that I didn't like. And guess what? I have never shot or killed anyone, and never got in trouble for it.

I rarely curse, so excuse me for a second while I vent.... I FUCKING HATE LIBERALS AND EVERYTHING THEY FUCKING STAND FOR! FUCK ALL OF YOU LIBS AND THE POLITICALLY CORRECT WAGON YOU FUCKING RODE IN ON.

Sorry 'bout that. But I hate those guys!

Did they teach you how to stay on topic in skool?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:42:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By Raynor_Schiene:
Get used to it. The liberals have educated several generations of lambs in the school system about how "diversity" is the answer to all our problems. (hint to the libs. it isn't!)

Until the children are taught what they are supposed to be taught in school (instead of all the kumbay-ya bullshit), then our society will continue to be nothing but cloned sheeple.

Kids get expelled nowadays for simply drawing two stick figures fighting! I use to sit at my desk and draw fighter planes shooting down "japs", "krauts", and even the kid in the class that I didn't like. And guess what? I have never shot or killed anyone, and never got in trouble for it.

I rarely curse, so excuse me for a second while I vent.... I FUCKING HATE LIBERALS AND EVERYTHING THEY FUCKING STAND FOR! FUCK ALL OF YOU LIBS AND THE POLITICALLY CORRECT WAGON YOU FUCKING RODE IN ON.

Sorry 'bout that. But I hate those guys!

Did they teach you how to stay on topic in skool? hr


If you're refering to my response to this thread then you miss the point. Notice how I said "several generations". And people wonder why these assinine laws are passed? It's because the theory for the liberals is "get them while they're young". Hence, several generations of kids have been (educated?) and now those kids are grown up somewhat and are setting the tone for today's society.

I responded to the topic with an opinion as to why coffee shops get fined for the aroma wafting outside the coffe shop.

If however you were kidding about my post, then my apologies for not seeing the humor in it.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:53:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Raynor_Schiene:
Get used to it. The liberals have educated several generations of lambs in the school system about how "diversity" is the answer to all our problems. (hint to the libs. it isn't!)

Until the children are taught what they are supposed to be taught in school (instead of all the kumbay-ya bullshit), then our society will continue to be nothing but cloned sheeple.

Kids get expelled nowadays for simply drawing two stick figures fighting! I use to sit at my desk and draw fighter planes shooting down "japs", "krauts", and even the kid in the class that I didn't like. And guess what? I have never shot or killed anyone, and never got in trouble for it.

I rarely curse, so excuse me for a second while I vent.... I FUCKING HATE LIBERALS AND EVERYTHING THEY FUCKING STAND FOR! FUCK ALL OF YOU LIBS AND THE POLITICALLY CORRECT WAGON YOU FUCKING RODE IN ON.

Sorry 'bout that. But I hate those guys!



It’s my opinion that the human animal has a natural level of aggression. An organism that reaches the top of the food chain cannot do so without a degree of violence.

As our society keeps pushing this PC bullshit down our throats, continually punishing even simple, non-damaging behavior as you illustrate into the category of being either “anti-social” or even conjuring up some sort of pseudo- psychological voodoo label to categorize such behavior our society will continue to stew and build up immense pressures. More and more activities that allow harmless and healthy purging of natural aggression are being made at first socially unacceptable, then categorized as deviant and finally some sort of law is passed to make the behavior criminal.

Couple this with no true discipline, and a “I’m the center of the universe and I want what I want NOW and God help you if you tell me I can’t have it because I’ll sue your ass off (or kick it) for violating my “rights” and you’ll keep getting more deviant criminals, more kids out of control and more excuses for the Government to deny more and more freedoms in the name of “public safety” and “the greater good”.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:55:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Last week it was a fine against a business owner for having an ashtray visible, now this shit.

I used to think the PRK was full of psycho politicians but this is just off scale nuts.


www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/11205.htm

JOLTING JAVA FINES MAY SENDS JOBS TO JERSEY

By FRANKIE EDOZIEN

November 19, 2003 -- Small-business owners testified at the City Council yesterday that unfair fines - such as the one levied on a coffee company for producing coffee odors - are driving them to New Jersey.

The beleaguered businessmen told a joint hearing of the City Council Committee of Economic Development & Waterfronts that they feel left out of the city's economic planning.

"Nobody seems to care," said Donald Schoenholt, president of Gillie's Coffee Company in Brooklyn, who was slapped with a $400 ticket because the aroma of his coffee products could be detected from the sidewalk.

"They could come back any time and give us a fine or even close us for having a very ordinary fragrance that most human beings consider to be very fragrant. [There isn't] any other municipality in the world that uses their Clean Air Act against already roasted coffee beans," he added.

David Yassky (D-Brooklyn) said in the last few years the city has lost 100,00 manufacturing jobs.

"We're gone from having 350,000 jobs to 250,000. These are jobs that pay people a living wage. It is tough to do business in the city," he said.

Yassky proposed that the city partner with non-profits to manage industrial space following the model of the successful Brooklyn Navy Yard.

You are walking down the street and smell fresh roasted java brewing......and this is a crime.......?What's next?Make doughnuts "illegal"because someone"might"smell one?There go aftershave,and womans'perfume.Next,underarm deoderant because it's not "natural".Let's hope the sidewalk BBQ stands escape this need for "smell-less"air.And what about a good fart?THX1138,here we come.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:56:20 AM EDT
They didn't pay off the right people to get a coffee smell permit!
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:56:33 AM EDT
Be extremely careful about generalizing anything. Don't blame anything on the 'the liberals'. (In fact, don't mention liberal at all unless you are referring to Classic Liberals).
Generalizing gives you an easy demon. It isn't as clear as just blaming liberals.
The problem profiled in this article, is of a business and economic nature. Cutting to the chase, the undercurrent is 'Making a profit is bad, because you are being selfish and it has no benefit to society!'
If somebody were to ask you what obligation business owed to society, could you tell them without getting mad?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:11:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 6:12:38 AM EDT by Raynor_Schiene]

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Be extremely careful about generalizing anything. Don't blame anything on the 'the liberals'. Cutting to the chase, the undercurrent is 'Making a profit is bad, because you are being selfish and it has no benefit to society!'


DF. I agree to a point with your logic. But, you won't find people on the right(conservative) bitching about the smell of coffee out on the street. (read making a profit, being selfish, and contributing to the capitalist way). These people are the ELF's, the Greenies, the Losers, and.. the Liberals, of society.

What strikes me strange is this story is from NY. I figured to would be from Kali-Fornia.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:16:45 AM EDT
I live near a small tourist town, on the OR coast.

There's a coffee place there too.

It Stinks...BAD!!

Not the nice coffee smell.

The city, is gonna shut them down, after trying to work with them.

Did I say it Stinks??
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:20:32 AM EDT
I am a 7-10 cups a day coffe drinker, this is Bull's crap.
What are they going to do when I fart, give me a fine?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:27:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 6:29:25 AM EDT by AR15fan]
Coffee houses are liberal strongholds. Ever see a starbucks employee who wasnt a envirowacko?

I applaud the inspector for giving the liberals a crash corse in nanny government. This incident is not without precedent. I recall a news story several years ago about a bakery that went out of business becuase they could not afford the equipment to filter the odor of baking bread out of their ovens which vented outdoors.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:38:35 AM EDT
has there ever been a scientific study done as to why there is a complete loss of rational thought and reason in HIGH population density areas?

mike
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:43:30 AM EDT
There's a place 2 blocks away from me that
roasts it's own beans.

Always thought it smelled like Burned Toast ,
but not unpleasant.

I used to visit my Grandma in Utica NY.
She lived two blocks from the Brewery.

Ya couldn't smell ANYTHING except Hops
on a weekday!
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:45:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
has there ever been a scientific study done as to why there is a complete loss of rational thought and reason in HIGH population density areas?

mike

I don't know about a scientific study, but would you believe that there is significant study on the subject.
The simplest summary is that people suffer continual overstress from the high density, because they aren't meant to be in continual contact with everybody else.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:46:14 AM EDT
I lived in Jacksonville, FL where Maxwell House has/had a big roasting plant. The odor from roasting beans is different from fresh ground coffee. If you don't know what the smell is, you wouldn't neccessarily identify it with coffee. But it wasn't objectional by any means, a far more plesant aroma than other citys. Where I work now, we get the wonderful aroma from the dairy farm a few miles away. Doesn't bother me but some folks complain.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:49:10 AM EDT
Bonkers!!! Another example of why humanity is doomed.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:53:46 AM EDT
There's a Pepperidge Farm bakery in my town. Some days the wonderful aromas can be discerned over a mile away.
Think of the potential revenue. Staggering!
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 6:56:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Raynor_Schiene:
DF. I agree to a point with your logic. But, you won't find people on the right(conservative) bitching about the smell of coffee out on the street. (read making a profit, being selfish, and contributing to the capitalist way). These people are the ELF's, the Greenies, the Losers, and.. the Liberals, of society.

What strikes me strange is this story is from NY. I figured to would be from Kali-Fornia.

First, don't call the opposition liberal, because they aren't. They've hijacked the term. Don't let them define the terms of your reality.
Your 'but' actually reinforces my point. A common complain of the left is that the evil capitalists don't care about anybody else. That's not quite true; Capitalists do care about other people, but they aren't going to make the other people's welfare their life's goal.
Their life's goal is making a profit and running a successful business. The left perceives themselves as moderating the evils of business, and this story is a perfect example.
What you should understand about the left, and develop your own rebuttals against, is the idea that everybody should be dedicated to the welfare of society. When the left talks about equality, they really mean it. The most ambitious, sharp businessman should be on the same level as the average street thug.
Can you come up with a rebuttal that would make a leftist think about their opinion?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:05:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Crookshanks:
There's a Pepperidge Farm bakery in my town. Some days the wonderful aromas can be discerned over a mile away.
Think of the potential revenue. Staggering!



Drive through Gilroy, CA (The Garlic Capitol of the World) when the plant is cranked up to full production.

Now, I love garlic but even with the windows up and the air flow shut off in the car it will still set your eyes watering and bring your gag reflex to the forefront.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:23:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 7:35:42 AM EDT by iamblades]
I remember reading this story a while ago about this very thing. It's kind of a futuristic story about a society where all the strong/beautiful people had to be handicapped to the level of the weakest person. They had to carry around weights all the time..

Just found the story, was by Vonnegut, called Harrison Bergeron.

here's a link to the movie:

http://www.epinions.com/content_101029613188

here's the original story:

http://penguinppc.org/~hollis/personal/bergeron.shtml
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:27:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
has there ever been a scientific study done as to why there is a complete loss of rational thought and reason in HIGH population density areas?

mike



I’ve never seen any studies on the phenomenon but I have my personal opinion based on observation.

Humans in small to moderate sized groups operate as social mammals, forming bonds for mutual benefit and protection. Territorial pressures are minimal, therefore stress levels are equally low. A hierarchy exists but it has soft boundaries and is fluid in nature. The individual is expected to be self-sufficient either independently or within the structure of the social order.

Humans in high density populations undergo a socialization/behavioral response that mimics insects where the individual’s needs become rapidly subservient to the survival (or perceived survival) of the group at all costs. The hive mentally also elevates certain individuals and groups to the status of “Queen” where all safety, security and the survival of the community is perceived to flow from. The individual is reduced to nothing more than a subservient drone whose primary function is to support the hive. Personal needs and desires always take second place to that of the hive (State).

Sounds Borg like, doesn’t it? I haven’t seen anything to convince me otherwise. The “mammals” simply wish to be left unfettered and to live their lives. They have little interest in tampering with the way the “insects” live (except to prevent them from encroaching on their lives). The “insects” are driven to impose their way of doing things on everyone that is not part of the “hive” (The Collective).
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:38:37 AM EDT
Another reason to hate that area of the country.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:47:13 AM EDT
I think the coffee people should go to Taco Bell and then down to city hall or whereever they make these stupid laws and gas the place up. They can flatulate the place up and then go in the public restrooms and do some explosive action. Coffee smells would be welcomed then...
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:47:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 7:50:10 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
has there ever been a scientific study done as to why there is a complete loss of rational thought and reason in HIGH population density areas?

mike



I’ve never seen any studies on the phenomenon but I have my personal opinion based on observation.

Humans in small to moderate sized groups operate as social mammals, forming bonds for mutual benefit and protection. Territorial pressures are minimal, therefore stress levels are equally low. A hierarchy exists but it has soft boundaries and is fluid in nature. The individual is expected to be self-sufficient either independently or within the structure of the social order.

Humans in high density populations undergo a socialization/behavioral response that mimics insects where the individual’s needs become rapidly subservient to the survival (or perceived survival) of the group at all costs. The hive mentally also elevates certain individuals and groups to the status of “Queen” where all safety, security and the survival of the community is perceived to flow from. The individual is reduced to nothing more than a subservient drone whose primary function is to support the hive. Personal needs and desires always take second place to that of the hive (State).

Sounds Borg like, doesn’t it? I haven’t seen anything to convince me otherwise. The “mammals” simply wish to be left unfettered and to live their lives. They have little interest in tampering with the way the “insects” live (except to prevent them from encroaching on their lives). The “insects” are driven to impose their way of doing things on everyone that is not part of the “hive” (The Collective).



excellent post. Maybe it's time to call an exterminator for this massive insect problem

mike
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 11:41:03 AM EDT
I wonder if there are any fines given out in the summer? Don't know if any of you are NYC locals, but pardon me for saying I would rather be locked up in the back of the truck with the ragheads in that pic that was posted on another thread than walk the streets of NYC during summer. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, burned it because of the stench.

CW
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 11:58:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
.
.
I recall a news story several years ago about a bakery that went out of business becuase they could not afford the equipment to filter the odor of baking bread out of their ovens which vented outdoors.


I don't think this situation has to do with smell, it has to do with hydro-carbon emissions in the form of alcohols(which causes air pollution) when baking. My brother-in-law owns a bakery, and they were going to expand their oven capacity so they can bake more, but the Calif-EPA mandated that they install HC scrubbers to prevent releasing the HC into the atmosphere at the cost of of thousands of dollars.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:00:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 3:04:39 PM EDT by Phil_A_Steen]

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Last week it was a fine against a business owner for having an ashtray visible, now this shit.

I used to think the PRK was full of psycho politicians but this is just off scale nuts.


www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/11205.htm
JOLTING JAVA FINES MAY SENDS JOBS TO JERSEY

By FRANKIE EDOZIEN

November 19, 2003 -- Small-business owners testified at the City Council yesterday that unfair fines - such as the one levied on a coffee company for producing coffee odors - are driving them to New Jersey.

The beleaguered businessmen told a joint hearing of the City Council Committee of Economic Development & Waterfronts that they feel left out of the city's economic planning.

"Nobody seems to care," said Donald Schoenholt, president of Gillie's Coffee Company in Brooklyn, who was slapped with a $400 ticket because the aroma of his coffee products could be detected from the sidewalk.

"They could come back any time and give us a fine or even close us for having a very ordinary fragrance that most human beings consider to be very fragrant. [There isn't] any other municipality in the world that uses their Clean Air Act against already roasted coffee beans," he added.

David Yassky (D-Brooklyn) said in the last few years the city has lost 100,00 manufacturing jobs.

"We're gone from having 350,000 jobs to 250,000. These are jobs that pay people a living wage. It is tough to do business in the city," he said.

Yassky proposed that the city partner with non-profits to manage industrial space following the model of the successful Brooklyn Navy Yard.



You know, this doesn't tell the whole story. The neighbors living adjacent to the place had been complaining for 2 years about the fact they were overwhelmed by roasting odors. The coffee order had been incredibly strong. So the city sent an inspector, who ticketed them.

How would you feel if it was your home?

The article gives the impression an inspector walked by and smelled coffee, but that was far from the case.

Everyone who has responded to this thread leapt to some conclusion about this being a liberal conformist ploy and we are all insects in a hive but nobody has the real story. Funny how trusting everyone was of the press in accepting this at face value.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:23:32 PM EDT
I agree with Phil.... As I mentioned on the previous page, this stuff STINKS!!

This is not a cutsy-puffy fresh coffee smell...

It's BURNT, and VERY STRONG!!!!!!!

In other words,............ It STINKS!! !
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 6:12:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: You know, this doesn't tell the whole story. The neighbors living adjacent to the place had been complaining for 2 years about the fact they were overwhelmed by roasting odors. The coffee order had been incredibly strong. So the city sent an inspector, who ticketed them. How would you feel if it was your home? The article gives the impression an inspector walked by and smelled coffee, but that was far from the case. Everyone who has responded to this thread leapt to some conclusion about this being a liberal conformist ploy and we are all insects in a hive but nobody has the real story. Funny how trusting everyone was of the press in accepting this at face value.
View Quote
Who was there first??? The coffee plant or the residents??? I'm tired of hearing where some developer buys a family farm and creates a subdivision and all the people bitch about the odors & dust & tractors from adjecent farms. Ditto with shooting ranges, if you by a house near an exisiting gun range deal with it!! I can't tell you how many cases I've read this year over ranges getting sued by new homeowners due the noise. Read an article where in Canada, they enacted a "too bad, so sad law" law that says if you buy a home near some objectionable business, yu have no grounds for complaint. Not much good comes from Canada, but that law makes sense.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 6:39:27 AM EDT
Maybe this IS the smokers that have just had enough, something to kind of stick it in their faces so to speak. Ever been to Baltimore when the McCormick spice plant is up and running? Very nice smell, very herby
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 1:28:01 PM EDT
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/Galleries/Avatars/12141.gif[/img] I think we have a violator here! Send in the troops!
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 1:33:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By captainpooby: [url]http://photos.ar15.com/Galleries/Avatars/12141.gif[/url] I think we have a violator here! Send in the troops!
View Quote
[LOL]Now wait a minute Jim! I don't even have a garage! You can call home and ask my wife! [;D]
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 2:21:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CS223: Who was there first??? The coffee plant or the residents??? I'm tired of hearing where some developer buys a family farm and creates a subdivision and all the people bitch about the odors & dust & tractors from adjecent farms. Ditto with shooting ranges, if you by a house near an exisiting gun range deal with it!! I can't tell you how many cases I've read this year over ranges getting sued by new homeowners due the noise. Read an article where in Canada, they enacted a "too bad, so sad law" law that says if you buy a home near some objectionable business, yu have no grounds for complaint. Not much good comes from Canada, but that law makes sense.
View Quote
I can't say for sure but let's approach this logically -- this is New York City, one of the more densely populated spots in the world. Do you think the land there was first used for an apartment building or for a chic coffee spot? 10 to 1 it's the former and this is some yuppie coffee spot that opened up. And by the way, it doesn't matter who was there first. Every property owner has the right to use their own land free of nuisance from a neighbor. So if I buy a parcel downwind from a hog farm, I have the right to get the hog farm to control the sty stench blowing over. It's a fundamental property right.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 2:34:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2003 2:36:07 PM EDT by captainpooby]
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By captainpooby: [url]http://photos.ar15.com/Galleries/Avatars/12141.gif[/url] I think we have a violator here! Send in the troops!
View Quote
[LOL]Now wait a minute Jim! I don't even have a garage! You can call home and ask my wife! [;D]
View Quote
Now your gonna go kick old green teeth right in the knee! By the way, if you're at the aircraft supply store I could use a couple hundred yards of flight line.[;)]
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