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Link Posted: 10/13/2013 8:33:29 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm not saying that they have a better or even an equal tank, but I am saying that they have definitely reduced the gap.

For the first time the T-90 is going to feature thermal sights as standard.  That alone is a major improvement.  Earlier vehicles with active IR systems were blind in poor weather, blinded by smoke, had crappy vision at night unless they turned on their IR searchlights, and turned into huge targets to anybody with their own IR or thermal gear if they turned on the IR illuminators.  The ammunition they're shooting is getter better too, and so is their fire control.

Again, I'm not saying that the systems you'll find on a T-90 are equal to the systems that you'll find in an M1A2 SEP, or even an upgraded M1A1, just that they're getting better.  The T-90 is certainly a significant step up from the T-72A in much the same way that the M60A3 TTS would have to be considered a significant step up from an M60 or M60A1.

Now you're right about their lack of survivability.  They still use the 'carousel of death' autoloader and IIRC they still just throw spare ammunition all over the place, so if you poke a hole in one I bet it's still going to blow the hell up.

IMHO it's time to roll out the next generation of the M1 just to be sure that we're still ahead of them by miles, rather than just leaps and bounds.
Link Posted: 10/13/2013 8:49:02 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
I'm not saying that they have a better or even an equal tank, but I am saying that they have definitely reduced the gap.

For the first time the T-90 is going to feature thermal sights as standard.  That alone is a major improvement.  Earlier vehicles with active IR systems were blind in poor weather, blinded by smoke, had crappy vision at night unless they turned on their IR searchlights, and turned into huge targets to anybody with their own IR or thermal gear if they turned on the IR illuminators.  The ammunition they're shooting is getter better too, and so is their fire control.

Again, I'm not saying that the systems you'll find on a T-90 are equal to the systems that you'll find in an M1A2 SEP, or even an upgraded M1A1, just that they're getting better.  The T-90 is certainly a significant step up from the T-72A in much the same way that the M60A3 TTS would have to be considered a significant step up from an M60 or M60A1.

Now you're right about their lack of survivability.  They still use the 'carousel of death' autoloader and IIRC they still just throw spare ammunition all over the place, so if you poke a hole in one I bet it's still going to blow the hell up.

IMHO it's time to roll out the next generation of the M1 just to be sure that we're still ahead of them by miles, rather than just leaps and bounds.
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The T-90MS looks pretty impressive for a Russian tank at least.  I don't know much about them though and I doubt the Russians have many of them.



Link Posted: 10/13/2013 9:09:12 PM EDT
[#3]
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Pretty much.  If you're an average-sized American (as in height), there's no way to fit into the turret of one and close the hatches above your gourd.

I remember crawling around the inside of the turret of a T-72 that was Polish, and I remember the Cyrillic data plates and IIRC, may have seen one that was from Czechoslovakia.

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I sat in a T-72 once in Iraq.  (It was funn of Cryllic writing, and had an extending RPG screen on the front, which my Co said was popular of Russian tanks in Chechnya, but I have been assured there was ZERO Russian T-72's in Iraq).


It was awful.  



Cramped, no viability, so on and so forth.

I'm not an armor guy, but the thing felt like a death trap.



Vs sitting in an M1 where you feel like you own the world in comparison.


Pretty much.  If you're an average-sized American (as in height), there's no way to fit into the turret of one and close the hatches above your gourd.

I remember crawling around the inside of the turret of a T-72 that was Polish, and I remember the Cyrillic data plates and IIRC, may have seen one that was from Czechoslovakia.




I got halfway into the drivers seat of one once.  Never even got close to fitting in the turret.

Then again i'm 6'2" and am pretty cramped in an Abrams too.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 4:48:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?List=7c996cd7-cbb4-4018-baf8-8825eada7aa2&ID=1294&RootFolder=%2Fblog%2FLists%2FPosts


Army paratroopers gave up their tanks in 1997. Now they want them back.

"The infantry needs more protection and more firepower,” says Col. Ed House, Army Training and Doctrine Command manager for the infantry brigade combat team.

Even in these times of deep budget cuts and a projected steep decline in purchases of military hardware, senior Army officials believe that a light tank is a high priority that should be funded. In a future war, they contend, Army airborne forces would parachute into a warzone equipped with only light weapons and might have to confront more heavily armed enemies.

Army leaders understand that, after 12 years of war, the infantry brigades have a "capability gap,” House says in an interview from Fort Benning, Ga. "The forcible entry forces we put in harm’s way lack sufficient protected firepower platform.”

The current plan is to provide the XVIII Airborne Corps — a fast-to-the-scene 911 force — a flotilla of light tanks that can be flown by C-130 cargo planes and parachuted into the warzone.



More at the link above.


Any Arfcom treadheads wants to chime in on this?  Personally, I support the idea.  I think it was absolutely boneheaded for them to stand down 3-73 when they did (yay Clinton ).  

There are a number of very interesting choices available that would meet their needs, and I am curious as to which they will pick - assuming of course that it doesn't get killed by 0bama/Hagel in the meantime.  The M-8 Buford that was already chosen to replace the M-551 is is a no-brainer I think, though the CV90/105/120 are also interesting offerings in they meet the weight and air drop requirements.  I don't think the Stryker MGS would work out though.



-K
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They don't. The CV-90120 is close to 35t.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 7:15:07 AM EDT
[#5]

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Quoted:
I got halfway into the drivers seat of one once.  Never even got close to fitting in the turret.



Then again i'm 6'2" and am pretty cramped in an Abrams too.
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

I sat in a T-72 once in Iraq.  (It was funn of Cryllic writing, and had an extending RPG screen on the front, which my Co said was popular of Russian tanks in Chechnya, but I have been assured there was ZERO Russian T-72's in Iraq).





It was awful.  
Cramped, no viability, so on and so forth.



I'm not an armor guy, but the thing felt like a death trap.
Vs sitting in an M1 where you feel like you own the world in comparison.




Pretty much.  If you're an average-sized American (as in height), there's no way to fit into the turret of one and close the hatches above your gourd.



I remember crawling around the inside of the turret of a T-72 that was Polish, and I remember the Cyrillic data plates and IIRC, may have seen one that was from Czechoslovakia.









I got halfway into the drivers seat of one once.  Never even got close to fitting in the turret.



Then again i'm 6'2" and am pretty cramped in an Abrams too.
LOL I am too, had to strip down.   My Co had to help me get out after I wedged myself in trying to see if we could start it.



 
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 7:16:36 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:



I got halfway into the drivers seat of one once.  Never even got close to fitting in the turret.

Then again i'm 6'2" and am pretty cramped in an Abrams too.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I sat in a T-72 once in Iraq.  (It was funn of Cryllic writing, and had an extending RPG screen on the front, which my Co said was popular of Russian tanks in Chechnya, but I have been assured there was ZERO Russian T-72's in Iraq).


It was awful.  



Cramped, no viability, so on and so forth.

I'm not an armor guy, but the thing felt like a death trap.



Vs sitting in an M1 where you feel like you own the world in comparison.


Pretty much.  If you're an average-sized American (as in height), there's no way to fit into the turret of one and close the hatches above your gourd.

I remember crawling around the inside of the turret of a T-72 that was Polish, and I remember the Cyrillic data plates and IIRC, may have seen one that was from Czechoslovakia.




I got halfway into the drivers seat of one once.  Never even got close to fitting in the turret.

Then again i'm 6'2" and am pretty cramped in an Abrams too.


"B" Co. 4th Tank Bn made a captured T-72 available to us to drive and otherwise crawl around on when we were back at Camp 15, Saudi Arabia after our retrograde back south from Kuwait.  Some of the Marines in my company that drove the tank had positive things to say about the ease of it all.  I don't remember if anyone mentioned the drivers station being cramped or not.

Here it is, probably early April of 1991.  This tank (or one like it) is currently sitting in front of the "B" Co. reserve center in Yakima WA.  Incidentally, "B" Co. had more tank and AFV kills (including one Land Rover full of Iraqis trying to escape the battlefield, lit up by a HEAT round from the rear) than any tank company in the 2nd MarDiv, and perhaps even the USMC.  I don't think 2nd Tank Bn, 2nd MarDiv fired a single main gun round during the ground war.



I'm drinking some of that delicious Al Wadi bottled water, and SSgt Lovato is trying to squeeze into the TCs seat.  He's a big man, so I don't remember him getting very far in his attempt to do so.



Some more captured Iraqi tanks and a BMP at Camp 15 awaiting transit back to CONUS.



We spent a lot of time crawling in and around them.  We wanted to know what the big fuss was all about.  Here's SSgt Collins. in what appears to be a T-62.



More T-72 back at Camp 15.



T-72 with mine plow.



LRF in the TCs station of a T-72.  This pic was taken on the battlefield in Kuwait.



More PME.



Just for shits and grins, the business end of a BMP1's 73mm Grom smoothbore cannon.  IIRC, it fires a modified RPG round via autoloader.



Ok, fuck it-here's a T-62 while I've got the Photobucket account up.



BMP1.  Note the narrow tracks, fuel cells in the rear doors, and firing ports for the AK.  BMPs are really cramped-a bloody awful AFV to be inside of.



Chinese APC south of Kuwait City.



And another close by.



T-55 abandoned on the battlefield in east of Kuwait City.



SSgt Collins. and Gunny Simmons posing next to a T-55 that took a hit from a TOW missile on the right side of the hull-the remains of which were still laying on the desert floor (probably fired from a Cobra).  The tank experienced  "catastrophic turret / hull separation" from the secondary explosion when the fuel and ammo lit up.  The turret assembly came down on the barrel's muzzle, then the turret settled back down on the hull all askew.  The barrel was visibly bent.  I've seen other Iraqi tanks with the turret upside down, resting on the hull after separating when they took a hit.  No bueno.

 

Upgraded T-55 type tank-possibly Chinese-next to one that isn't.  Note how the other T-55 looks like it's sitting on a collapsed suspension.  There were U.S. submunitions laying about all over the place where this pic was taken.



T-62 in it's battle position in Kuwait, awaiting our attack.  They were probably destroyed before they could fire a single shot.



Destroyed something-probably an SP122 from the looks of the remains of the turret laying nearby.  Yay for thin armor.



SP122 self-propelled 122mm gun.  Pic was taken on the highway south of Kuwait City.



Kuwaiti M113.  Whether this was abandoned by them in August of 1990, or captured by the Iraqi Army afterwards and pressed into use is unknown to me.



Anyway, whenever the subject of Soviet / Russian armor comes up, I'm always reminded that not all of us are fortunate enough to be born in a country that values the lives of those expected to fight on behalf of the people that send us to war.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 7:21:15 AM EDT
[#7]
I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 7:26:34 AM EDT
[#8]
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I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.
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Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 7:29:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Us army blitzkrieg. Sounds good to me,
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 10:58:21 AM EDT
[#10]
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So we are all agreed on the requirements then.

It should be an air-droppable Mk4 Merkava.
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Oh, I know! It should also be equipped with, like, helmets the crew will wear that will allow them to see through the hull where the enemies are. We could do this with a suite of sensors mounted on the outside of the tank. And we could make like different versions for each service, like, the Marines could have a version that could fly and take off vertically. It should also be undetectable by radar! Fuck yeah!
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:06:44 AM EDT
[#11]
I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:08:23 AM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:


Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.


Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.


He would know better than most, he owns a BRDM-2.

I personally always felt the Abrams was very comfortable. I fit perfectly into the TCs position, and the loaders hole was comfy too. I'm also a little dude at 5'6.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:10:11 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus
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Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.



As did some Sheridans

Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:11:18 AM EDT
[#14]
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I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus


Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/2f1eeca0.jpg


Pretty sure we could scrounge a few thousand in africa
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:12:03 AM EDT
[#15]
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Just for shits and grins, the business end of a BMP1's 73mm Grom smoothbore cannon.  IIRC, it fires a modified RPG round via autoloader.
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Just for shits and grins, the business end of a BMP1's 73mm Grom smoothbore cannon.  IIRC, it fires a modified RPG round via autoloader.



Modified SPG-9 rounds.  SPG-9 is similar to the Carl Gustav - kind of a recoiless rifle.


Upgraded T-55 type tank-possibly Chinese-next to one that isn't.  Note how the other T-55 looks like it's sitting on a collapsed suspension.  There were U.S. submunitions laying about all over the place where this pic was taken.


Tank in back may have been hiding behind the dead tank in front, for obscuration and to take advantage of it as "extra armor" if the hiding didn't work ...
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:14:42 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.


Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.



My dream AFV would be an M8 Greyhound with the turret/gun/sighting tech of a Scorpion.

Just the thing to patrol the perimeter of your gated community.  
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:24:34 AM EDT
[#17]

This problem already had a solution... In the 80's.
Sgt. Slaughter's Triple T Tank!
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:37:01 AM EDT
[#18]
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I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus


Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/2f1eeca0.jpg

As did some Sheridans

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/918331d8.jpg


They took back an M60A3 that was on display in front of either the Legion or VFW post here and dumped that in the ocean too. I guess FedGov thinks artificial reefs are more important than preserving history.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 12:13:57 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


They took back an M60A3 that was on display in front of either the Legion or VFW post here and dumped that in the ocean too. I guess FedGov thinks artificial reefs are more important than preserving history.
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Quoted:
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Quoted:
I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus


Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/2f1eeca0.jpg

As did some Sheridans

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/918331d8.jpg


They took back an M60A3 that was on display in front of either the Legion or VFW post here and dumped that in the ocean too. I guess FedGov thinks artificial reefs are more important than preserving history.


FUCK FEDGOV!  I say shut it down indefinitely, they'll screw things up slower that way!
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 12:14:05 PM EDT
[#20]
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Modified SPG-9 rounds.  SPG-9 is similar to the Carl Gustav - kind of a recoiless rifle.

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Quoted:
Quoted:


Just for shits and grins, the business end of a BMP1's 73mm Grom smoothbore cannon.  IIRC, it fires a modified RPG round via autoloader.


Modified SPG-9 rounds.  SPG-9 is similar to the Carl Gustav - kind of a recoiless rifle.




The SPG-9 is not like a Carl-Gustav, comparing the two would be like comparing an M2 .50 and a Bren gun.  The Carl G is man portable and rifled.  The SPG-9 is tripod mounted, more similar to an M40 or B10.  

The 73mm gun on a BMP-1 fires PG-9's, PG-15's, and OG-9's.

The PG-9 and PG-15's are rockets, not recoilless rifle rounds.  They are based off of the RPG system as USMC Tanker said.

They are similar to a PG-7, except they use a different expelling charge where the PG-7 has a tube filled with nitrocellulose strips the PG-9 has a booster cup affixed to the rear.


I know the actual details are hard for you to see.




Don't worry about struggling to answer questions outside of your knowledge,  because me and USMC Tanker seem to have a much better view than you.



Link Posted: 10/14/2013 12:41:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 1:40:35 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:




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I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus


Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/2f1eeca0.jpg

As did some Sheridans

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/918331d8.jpg






There's a company worth of M60A3s (minus two) that were buried in the desert somewhere in the 2nd MarDiv's AO in Saudi Arabia close to the KSA / Kuwait international border.  They're still there as far as I know.  They were offered to 8th Tank Battalion's maintenance officer when the NYANG NETT'd to M1s.  I doubt they were buried with the TTS installed, but mechanically, I'd wager they're restoreable.  
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 1:42:16 PM EDT
[#23]
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There's a company worth of M60A3s (minus two) that were buried in the desert somewhere in the 2nd MarDiv's AO in Saudi Arabia close to the KSA / Kuwait international border.  They're still there as far as I know.  They were offered to 8th Tank Battalion's maintenance officer when the NYANG NETT'd to M1s.  I doubt they were buried with the TTS installed, but mechanically, I'd wager they're restoreable.  
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus


Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/2f1eeca0.jpg

As did some Sheridans

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/918331d8.jpg






There's a company worth of M60A3s (minus two) that were buried in the desert somewhere in the 2nd MarDiv's AO in Saudi Arabia close to the KSA / Kuwait international border.  They're still there as far as I know.  They were offered to 8th Tank Battalion's maintenance officer when the NYANG NETT'd to M1s.  I doubt they were buried with the TTS installed, but mechanically, I'd wager they're restoreable.  



Boys....I feel like camping in the kuwait desert.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 1:48:49 PM EDT
[#24]
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The SPG-9 is not like a Carl-Gustav, comparing the two would be like comparing an M2 .50 and a Bren gun.  The Carl G is man portable and rifled.  The SPG-9 is tripod mounted, more similar to an M40 or B10.  

The 73mm gun on a BMP-1 fires PG-9's, PG-15's, and OG-9's.

The PG-9 and PG-15's are rockets, not recoilless rifle rounds.  They are based off of the RPG system as USMC Tanker said.

They are similar to a PG-7, except they use a different expelling charge where the PG-7 has a tube filled with nitrocellulose strips the PG-9 has a booster cup affixed to the rear.


I know the actual details are hard for you to see.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/tank2.jpg


Don't worry about struggling to answer questions outside of your knowledge,  because me and USMC Tanker seem to have a much better view than you.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/100_01322.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/102_0560.jpg
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Just for shits and grins, the business end of a BMP1's 73mm Grom smoothbore cannon.  IIRC, it fires a modified RPG round via autoloader.


Modified SPG-9 rounds.  SPG-9 is similar to the Carl Gustav - kind of a recoiless rifle.




The SPG-9 is not like a Carl-Gustav, comparing the two would be like comparing an M2 .50 and a Bren gun.  The Carl G is man portable and rifled.  The SPG-9 is tripod mounted, more similar to an M40 or B10.  

The 73mm gun on a BMP-1 fires PG-9's, PG-15's, and OG-9's.

The PG-9 and PG-15's are rockets, not recoilless rifle rounds.  They are based off of the RPG system as USMC Tanker said.

They are similar to a PG-7, except they use a different expelling charge where the PG-7 has a tube filled with nitrocellulose strips the PG-9 has a booster cup affixed to the rear.


I know the actual details are hard for you to see.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/tank2.jpg


Don't worry about struggling to answer questions outside of your knowledge,  because me and USMC Tanker seem to have a much better view than you.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/100_01322.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/102_0560.jpg


That's an excellent pic of the older BMP1 with it's AT-3 Sagger (9K11 Malyutka) ATGM launcher rail mounted above the 73mm Grom smoothbore cannon.

That was a deadly threat to our MBTs at one time, and caused considerable concern in the armor community.  Not entirely ineffective, either.  To a degree, it gave a lightweight, thinly armored APC the theoretical ability to destroy MBTs with a HEAT warhead that was effective enough to punch through the relatively thin armor of our M48s and M60s.  Back when we had M60A1s, we used to practice "Saggar drills".
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 1:50:12 PM EDT
[#25]
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Boys....I feel like camping in the kuwait desert.
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I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus


Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/2f1eeca0.jpg

As did some Sheridans

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/918331d8.jpg






There's a company worth of M60A3s (minus two) that were buried in the desert somewhere in the 2nd MarDiv's AO in Saudi Arabia close to the KSA / Kuwait international border.  They're still there as far as I know.  They were offered to 8th Tank Battalion's maintenance officer when the NYANG NETT'd to M1s.  I doubt they were buried with the TTS installed, but mechanically, I'd wager they're restoreable.  



Boys....I feel like camping in the kuwait desert.


We'd probably get thrown in jail once we set foot back on U.S. soil.  
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:04:44 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:



My dream AFV would be an M8 Greyhound with the turret/gun/sighting tech of a Scorpion.

Just the thing to patrol the perimeter of your gated community.  
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I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.


Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.



My dream AFV would be an M8 Greyhound with the turret/gun/sighting tech of a Scorpion.

Just the thing to patrol the perimeter of your gated community.  


I've always wanted an M114 with an M60 GPMG mounted on top.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:10:00 PM EDT
[#27]

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Quoted:





80fps is very fast, that is 55mph. How many modern tanks can hit a solid object at that speed and be battle ready in <5 minutes?



Kharn
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Quoted:



Quoted:

Stupid leg question about the weight limit on air dropping armored vehicles.



Per wiki, the parachutes on the shuttle SRB are each rated at 88 metric tons, and three are used the give the 91 metric ton empty SRB an impact rate



of about 80 fps into water.  Can't bigger parachutes be used on something like a 40 ton vehicle dropped from a C-17?



Are moving CG issues at the load is dropped too hard to overcome?



Is that impact the issue and not the weight?  I recall video of the Russians using proximity activated retro-rockets at the last second to slow descent.



Maybe the issue isn't the ground or air vehicle but the parachute system.



80fps is very fast, that is 55mph. How many modern tanks can hit a solid object at that speed and be battle ready in <5 minutes?



Kharn
Did some more digging on your counter-points, which are formidable.  I found this:http://phys.org/news174290535.html

 



This is a 36 ton payload dropped safely and undamaged onto ground as opposed to the SRBs that drop into the ocean.  I still wonder if the missing




portion isn't new chute techniques not aircraft or armor.  
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:10:26 PM EDT
[#28]
This subject reminds me... I took this picture in 2005. None of us knew exactly what it used to be....






USMCTanker?





 
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:10:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


He would know better than most, he owns a BRDM-2.

I personally always felt the Abrams was very comfortable. I fit perfectly into the TCs position, and the loaders hole was comfy too. I'm also a little dude at 5'6.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.


Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.


He would know better than most, he owns a BRDM-2.

I personally always felt the Abrams was very comfortable. I fit perfectly into the TCs position, and the loaders hole was comfy too. I'm also a little dude at 5'6.


I'm 5'11", 215-220 lbs, and never had a problem with being in any of the stations on the M60 or Abrams MBTs.  Our tanks are luxurious compared to Soveit-era designs.

We wore both CVC and regular body armor in DS, and I don't remember it being a problem in terms of bulk while inside the tank, but then again, I probably only weighed 165 lbs at the time.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:14:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This subject reminds me... I took this picture in 2005. None of us knew exactly what it used to be....

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/Grunt10thmtn/wtfisthis_zpsb92771f7.jpg

USMCTanker?
 
View Quote


Looks like it might be the PTS-2 amphibious cargo vehicle.  Never seen one before you posted this pic.  

Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:20:40 PM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:


Looks like it might be the PTS-2 amphibious cargo vehicle.  Never seen one before you posted this pic.  

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This subject reminds me... I took this picture in 2005. None of us knew exactly what it used to be....

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/Grunt10thmtn/wtfisthis_zpsb92771f7.jpg

USMCTanker?
 


Looks like it might be the PTS-2 amphibious cargo vehicle.  Never seen one before you posted this pic.  



That's exactly what it is. They are interesting vehicles.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:28:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That's exactly what it is. They are interesting vehicles.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This subject reminds me... I took this picture in 2005. None of us knew exactly what it used to be....

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/Grunt10thmtn/wtfisthis_zpsb92771f7.jpg

USMCTanker?
 


Looks like it might be the PTS-2 amphibious cargo vehicle.  Never seen one before you posted this pic.  



That's exactly what it is. They are interesting vehicles.


That's the tracked vehicle that fadedsun needs to buy.  After spending his entire life's savings to restore it (while living in a cardboard box, and eating at the local soup kitchen at the homeless shelter), he could really rake in the girls at South Padre Island during Spring Break.  

"Hey girls, want to take a spin in my PTS-2 tracked amphibious vehicle?"  Chicks dig that shit.  

Fadedsun, are you tracking?  
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:28:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm 5'11", 215-220 lbs, and never had a problem with being in any of the stations on the M60 or Abrams MBTs.  Our tanks are luxurious compared to Soveit-era designs.

We wore both CVC and regular body armor in DS, and I don't remember it being a problem in terms of bulk while inside the tank, but then again, I probably only weighed 165 lbs at the time.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.


Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.


He would know better than most, he owns a BRDM-2.

I personally always felt the Abrams was very comfortable. I fit perfectly into the TCs position, and the loaders hole was comfy too. I'm also a little dude at 5'6.


I'm 5'11", 215-220 lbs, and never had a problem with being in any of the stations on the M60 or Abrams MBTs.  Our tanks are luxurious compared to Soveit-era designs.

We wore both CVC and regular body armor in DS, and I don't remember it being a problem in terms of bulk while inside the tank, but then again, I probably only weighed 165 lbs at the time.


I don't know how the t series tanks are but the brdm is downright cramped for a 5-11 170 pound guy like me.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:32:24 PM EDT
[#34]
T-55s and T-62s aren't that bad, 72's are fucking abysmal though. Never been in a 64 but it's smaller than a 72 so I assume it too, sucks.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:41:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I don't know how the t series tanks are but the brdm is downright cramped for a 5-11 170 pound guy like me.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.


Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.


He would know better than most, he owns a BRDM-2.

I personally always felt the Abrams was very comfortable. I fit perfectly into the TCs position, and the loaders hole was comfy too. I'm also a little dude at 5'6.


I'm 5'11", 215-220 lbs, and never had a problem with being in any of the stations on the M60 or Abrams MBTs.  Our tanks are luxurious compared to Soveit-era designs.

We wore both CVC and regular body armor in DS, and I don't remember it being a problem in terms of bulk while inside the tank, but then again, I probably only weighed 165 lbs at the time.


I don't know how the t series tanks are but the brdm is downright cramped for a 5-11 170 pound guy like me.


That was post 22222.

See, even the spirits of Arfcom are telling you to buy a PTS-2.  

It's your destiny.  

You're welcome!
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:45:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Looking at some of the pictures of one in tact. It almost looks like a slightly modified Higgins boat with tracks.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:46:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Just a WP version of a LARC with tracks.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:49:48 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:


we have 200 C17s.

Can we put our armored vehicles in those and throw paratroopers out of 130s if need be?
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Why in gods name are we still hung up on the C130 requirement?


Because with out it, the airborne has a hard time explaining why they are not duplicative of the USMC.


we have 200 C17s.

Can we put our armored vehicles in those and throw paratroopers out of 130s if need be?

What's this we shit?  You are on like a thousand Airforce no fly lists.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 2:50:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just a WP version of a LARC with tracks.
View Quote


That has got to be a maintenance hog. LARCs were bad enough with wheels.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 3:10:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There's a company worth of M60A3s (minus two) that were buried in the desert somewhere in the 2nd MarDiv's AO in Saudi Arabia close to the KSA / Kuwait international border.  They're still there as far as I know.  They were offered to 8th Tank Battalion's maintenance officer when the NYANG NETT'd to M1s.  I doubt they were buried with the TTS installed, but mechanically, I'd wager they're restoreable.  
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus


Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/2f1eeca0.jpg

As did some Sheridans

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/more/918331d8.jpg






There's a company worth of M60A3s (minus two) that were buried in the desert somewhere in the 2nd MarDiv's AO in Saudi Arabia close to the KSA / Kuwait international border.  They're still there as far as I know.  They were offered to 8th Tank Battalion's maintenance officer when the NYANG NETT'd to M1s.  I doubt they were buried with the TTS installed, but mechanically, I'd wager they're restoreable.  


I find that hard to believe. An NG unit just doesn't "offer" a dozen functional tanks to the USMC. There's no way that'd be possible. You just can't write those off of the books. They'd have to go back to Anniston for a total strip down, and when I say strip I mean that the interior is stripped, they go so far to remove any POL that they actually remove the hubs of the roadwheels and remove the grease. If these truly were buried, they've been unburied by now and they're be several people who are no longer collecting Govt. paychecks. Look at the great lengths Agent Wu goes to track down $600 lasers here on ARFCOM, they'd have the entire IG tracking down a dozen buried tanks.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 3:14:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I find that hard to believe. An NG unit just doesn't "offer" a dozen functional tanks to the USMC. There's no way that'd be possible. You just can't write those off of the books. They'd have to go back to Anniston for a total strip down, and when I say strip I mean that the interior is stripped, they go so far to remove any POL that they actually remove the hubs of the roadwheels and remove the grease. If these truly were buried, they've been unburied by now and they're be several people who are no longer collecting Govt. paychecks. Look at the great lengths Agent Wu goes to track down $600 lasers here on ARFCOM, they'd have the entire IG tracking down a dozen buried tanks.
View Quote



I somewhat regularly watch $1 million-plus armored vehicles get "written off the books" in theater all the time when they are not MTOE items and too expensive to ship back.  Well, this is after those same vehicles are "offered" to anybody and everybody through DRMO.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 3:28:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Nothing off the shelf is going to be survivable, and designing something survivable that is C-130 transportable isn't going to be a development program that is going to get funded. The M8 might be close but it would have to be redesigned with a V hull which would mean nearly starting from scratch.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 3:57:25 PM EDT
[#43]
We need foldable, semi-anthropomorphic battle bots with the ability to carry significant firepower. Collapse them in the C-130, and even mini versions in the Chinook, and deploy them with other JRDF assets wherever you want. Then ignore the roads for infiltration routes, and change the face of warfare.

Instead of wasting money on F-series fighters, develop C-series LO platforms that can covertly infiltrate a Brigade Task Force with battleoids, and stomp mudholes in your enemy's backyard without him knowing what happened.

That is overmatch. Tracks need to go away.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 4:00:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I somewhat regularly watch $1 million-plus armored vehicles get "written off the books" in theater all the time when they are not MTOE items and too expensive to ship back.  Well, this is after those same vehicles are "offered" to anybody and everybody through DRMO.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

I find that hard to believe. An NG unit just doesn't "offer" a dozen functional tanks to the USMC. There's no way that'd be possible. You just can't write those off of the books. They'd have to go back to Anniston for a total strip down, and when I say strip I mean that the interior is stripped, they go so far to remove any POL that they actually remove the hubs of the roadwheels and remove the grease. If these truly were buried, they've been unburied by now and they're be several people who are no longer collecting Govt. paychecks. Look at the great lengths Agent Wu goes to track down $600 lasers here on ARFCOM, they'd have the entire IG tracking down a dozen buried tanks.



I somewhat regularly watch $1 million-plus armored vehicles get "written off the books" in theater all the time when they are not MTOE items and too expensive to ship back.  Well, this is after those same vehicles are "offered" to anybody and everybody through DRMO.


Tanks & other armored vehicles don't get DRMO'ed. Not unless they are as 10 pound pieces of paperweight. I don't think you'll find any of those with an "A" DEMIL code.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 4:13:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nothing off the shelf is going to be survivable, and designing something survivable that is C-130 transportable isn't going to be a development program that is going to get funded. The M8 might be close but it would have to be redesigned with a V hull which would mean nearly starting from scratch.
View Quote



No, just no. What we need to do is realize that not every asset we have needs to be the perfect COIN asset. We have other missions and redesigning everything to operate in COIN environments is the wrong answer. It does not need a V hull, if your units are operating against an insurgent threat with IEDs then you will have had time to take the MRAPs out of storage.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 4:29:42 PM EDT
[#46]


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Quoted:

Parachuting into a war zone with a large force is a bad idea. The concept ran its course during WWII.
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beat your face leg!
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 4:33:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



No, just no. What we need to do is realize that not every asset we have needs to be the perfect COIN asset. We have other missions and redesigning everything to operate in COIN environments is the wrong answer. It does not need a V hull, if your units are operating against an insurgent threat with IEDs then you will have had time to take the MRAPs out of storage.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Nothing off the shelf is going to be survivable, and designing something survivable that is C-130 transportable isn't going to be a development program that is going to get funded. The M8 might be close but it would have to be redesigned with a V hull which would mean nearly starting from scratch.



No, just no. What we need to do is realize that not every asset we have needs to be the perfect COIN asset. We have other missions and redesigning everything to operate in COIN environments is the wrong answer. It does not need a V hull, if your units are operating against an insurgent threat with IEDs then you will have had time to take the MRAPs out of storage.

Instantly deployable forced entry counter insurgency forces.


Seems legit.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 4:45:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Thank you for posting those pics USMCtanker. Going to start working on a diorama this winter of a bradley my brother-in-law drove when he was over there. Was thinking of something like the bradley driving past a wreck like one of those.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 4:48:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Probably a stupid question, but why not take the crew out, install an auto loader, and make the thing remote controlled? A guy with a laptop could drive it from the rear and being as there is no troops to protect in it the armor could be thinner.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 5:10:53 PM EDT
[#50]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

We are so overdue for a auto-loading armored vehicle.....
View Quote


yep, out of your lane! auto-loader can pull pmcs or security?



stick to college football... on second thought thats also out of your lane!





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