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Posted: 9/19/2004 6:27:32 PM EST
Is it legal for civies to purchase this type of ammo?

Can it be fired from the M82A1 with the muzzle brake attached?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:39:43 PM EST
anyone?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:39:58 PM EST
I see the rounds sold openly around here (The north-west) for around $45/ea.

As far as the '82 goes I'm not sure (I'm not into the .50's) but I HAVE heard folks refer to certain M-82 BBL's as "SLAP BBLS".

BTW, the spec's on that round ARE pretty damn amazing.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:40:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Treadhead:


BTW, the spec's on that round ARE pretty damn amazing.



Hell yes they are.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:41:01 PM EST
What is SLAP ammo?

jerad
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:41:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 6:42:26 PM EST by Sniper_408]

Originally Posted By Jerad:
What is SLAP ammo?

jerad



M903 Caliber .50 Saboted Light Armor Penetrator (SLAP)
M962 Saboted Light Armor Penetrator Tracer (SLAPT)
MISSION: To maximize the effectiveness of the M2 machine gun in engagement and defeat of lightly armored targets. The M903 SLAP has demonstrated capability to provide greatly increased penetration (2 to 3 times the armor thickness at any given range) over that of ammunition currently fielded. The M962 SLAPT assures the precision of delivery necessary to take full advantage of this capability.


Velocity: 3985 feet per second
Maximum effective range: 4921.5 feet (1500 meters) against 3/4" High Hard Armor (HHA)
Unit Replacement Cost: $7.50 per round


Features: .50 caliber SLAP ammunition was developed by the Marine Corps during the mid/late 1980s and was approved for service use in 1990 during Operation Desert Storm. It uses a reduced caliber, heavy metal (tungsten) .30 inch diameter penetrator wrapped in a "plastic" sabot or "shoe" of .50 inch diameter.
Since the mass of the saboted penetrator is much lighter in weight than normal ball .50 caliber ammunition, SLAP's velocity can be significantly and safely increased in an unmodified M2 Machine Gun. This produces a very fast round with a very flat trajectory which enhances hit probability. SLAP ammuntion is completely interoperable with M2 machine guns with stellite liner.

Background: During the 1980s, the Marine Corps invested in both .50 caliber and 7.62 x 51 SLAP concepts. The .50 caliber effort was very successful and extends the light armor capability of the M2 Heavy Machine Gun significantly. The 7.62mm effort was not successful in the M60 and caused catastrophic barrel failures due to in-bore break-up of the sabot and the penetrator puncturing the side of the barrel. Also, its increase in penetration was not on the same order of magnitude as the .50 caliber SLAP's.

A fixed price contract for initial production of 3.5 million rounds of 4/1 linked M903/M962 for the U.S. Marine Corps use was awarded 1QFY94. Contractor for this activity is Olin Corporation. Cartridges are being loaded, assembled and packed by the Winchester Division, East Alton, IL. M962 tracer projectiles are charged at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP). Production of 0.6 million rounds for Army use began 2QFY96.


Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:43:57 PM EST
When my unit was activated early last year we had to turn all of our M-2HB BBL's in for the newer ones that'r able to handle the SLAP round.

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:44:09 PM EST
You shouldn't fire them from a fifty with a muzzle brake. So if you want to do it you'll have to go John Wayne and take off the brake.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:46:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcgredo:
You shouldn't fire them from a fifty with a muzzle brake. So if you want to do it you'll have to go John Wayne and take off the brake.



Ouch??
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:52:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sniper_408:

Can it be fired from the M82A1 with the muzzle brake attached?



Email tech@barrettrifles.com and ask them.

I bet the answer is no.

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:54:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By Sniper_408:

Can it be fired from the M82A1 with the muzzle brake attached?



Email tech@barrettrifles.com and ask them.

I bet the answer is no.




Thanks
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:00:10 PM EST
No way the slap is a Sabot type round, It's kinda like having a big brake one on a shotgun and having the wad get caught in the brake, kinda.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:31:22 PM EST
I wonder why the 7.62mm SLAP round was causing the barrel failures. Why would the sabot break up in the 7.62 and not the .50? And why couldnt they fix it? Remington has had the accelerator for years now, and thats pretty much the same thing I would think.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:42:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Special-K:
I wonder why the 7.62mm SLAP round was causing the barrel failures. Why would the sabot break up in the 7.62 and not the .50? And why couldnt they fix it? Remington has had the accelerator for years now, and thats pretty much the same thing I would think.



Is the Remington stuff availible for civies?
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 2:22:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sniper_408:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
I wonder why the 7.62mm SLAP round was causing the barrel failures. Why would the sabot break up in the 7.62 and not the .50? And why couldnt they fix it? Remington has had the accelerator for years now, and thats pretty much the same thing I would think.



Is the Remington stuff availible for civies?



Yes, if you can find it, it's not an AP round.

IIRC it came in 30-30 308 and 30-06, it was a 22 caliber 55gr soft point in a 30 cal sabot. It went out of production about 5 years ago or so.


Remington reported a muzzle velocity of 4,080 fps for the .30-06, 3,770 fps for the .308 and 3,400 fps for the .30-30.


A 55gr in 22-250 or 220 swift is about 3700-3800fps.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 2:30:26 PM EST
My 50 cal gunners battle carried SLAP, it 's not too spectacular against people. It made the 50 into slow firing M240Gs, it is best reserved for armor targets.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 3:35:20 PM EST
The older SLAP from Winchester can't be fired from the M82A1 with the old muzzle brake. The new brakes with the .630" opening can be fired with the black sabot SLAP. The older red sabot SLAP is a no-go in any shoulder fired .50 with a brake. The red sabot seperates too early to fired through a brake.

You still need a SLAP chambered barrel. The throat will be approx. .750" longer. Any other ammo you feed through it will be horribly inaccurate because of the long jump from the case mouth to the lands and grooves.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 8:56:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By Sniper_408:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
I wonder why the 7.62mm SLAP round was causing the barrel failures. Why would the sabot break up in the 7.62 and not the .50? And why couldnt they fix it? Remington has had the accelerator for years now, and thats pretty much the same thing I would think.



Is the Remington stuff availible for civies?



Yes, if you can find it, it's not an AP round.

IIRC it came in 30-30 308 and 30-06, it was a 22 caliber 55gr soft point in a 30 cal sabot. It went out of production about 5 years ago or so.


Remington reported a muzzle velocity of 4,080 fps for the .30-06, 3,770 fps for the .308 and 3,400 fps for the .30-30.


A 55gr in 22-250 or 220 swift is about 3700-3800fps.



Yes but your barrel erosion will likely be less with the sabot ammo as the sabot is more lubrisitous (Sp?)

I have about a dozen rounds of slap, linked. Everytime I find a couple that are not outrageous I get them to add to the belt. Gonna have to start adding some Raufous to it soon....

S.O.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 9:16:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 9:18:54 PM EST by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By 50cal:
The older SLAP from Winchester can't be fired from the M82A1 with the old muzzle brake. The new brakes with the .630" opening can be fired with the black sabot SLAP. The older red sabot SLAP is a no-go in any shoulder fired .50 with a brake. The red sabot seperates too early to fired through a brake.

You still need a SLAP chambered barrel. The throat will be approx. .750" longer. Any other ammo you feed through it will be horribly inaccurate because of the long jump from the case mouth to the lands and grooves.



Cancel that call to Barret!


Off topic and attempting back 50cal into a corner:....

Can you hint at what Mr. Barrett is gonna do (or not do) as a result of the new legislation in CA? I'm fully aware of his letters (reason I bought a 99) but was wondering if he is gonna do a press release about it, or anything else? <Excellent PR opportunity to sell some rifles and bolster the RKBA communtiy>
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 10:20:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By SorryOciffer:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By Sniper_408:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
I wonder why the 7.62mm SLAP round was causing the barrel failures. Why would the sabot break up in the 7.62 and not the .50? And why couldnt they fix it? Remington has had the accelerator for years now, and thats pretty much the same thing I would think.



Is the Remington stuff availible for civies?



Yes, if you can find it, it's not an AP round.

IIRC it came in 30-30 308 and 30-06, it was a 22 caliber 55gr soft point in a 30 cal sabot. It went out of production about 5 years ago or so.


Remington reported a muzzle velocity of 4,080 fps for the .30-06, 3,770 fps for the .308 and 3,400 fps for the .30-30.


A 55gr in 22-250 or 220 swift is about 3700-3800fps.



Yes but your barrel erosion will likely be less with the sabot ammo as the sabot is more lubrisitous (Sp?)

I have about a dozen rounds of slap, linked. Everytime I find a couple that are not outrageous I get them to add to the belt. Gonna have to start adding some Raufous to it soon....

S.O.



Don't know about the erosion, you've still got the powder sand blasting the barrel, but your accuracy will for sure be less with the accelerators, they were never known for stellar accuracy.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 11:06:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By SorryOciffer:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By Sniper_408:

Originally Posted By Special-K:
I wonder why the 7.62mm SLAP round was causing the barrel failures. Why would the sabot break up in the 7.62 and not the .50? And why couldnt they fix it? Remington has had the accelerator for years now, and thats pretty much the same thing I would think.



Is the Remington stuff availible for civies?



Yes, if you can find it, it's not an AP round.

IIRC it came in 30-30 308 and 30-06, it was a 22 caliber 55gr soft point in a 30 cal sabot. It went out of production about 5 years ago or so.


Remington reported a muzzle velocity of 4,080 fps for the .30-06, 3,770 fps for the .308 and 3,400 fps for the .30-30.


A 55gr in 22-250 or 220 swift is about 3700-3800fps.



Yes but your barrel erosion will likely be less with the sabot ammo as the sabot is more lubrisitous (Sp?)

I have about a dozen rounds of slap, linked. Everytime I find a couple that are not outrageous I get them to add to the belt. Gonna have to start adding some Raufous to it soon....

S.O.



Don't know about the erosion, you've still got the powder sand blasting the barrel, but your accuracy will for sure be less with the accelerators, they were never known for stellar accuracy.



True. I was speeking more about frictional wear to the lands/grooves.

S.O.
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