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Posted: 9/30/2011 5:48:44 PM EST
OK, I have been looking for a compact pistol to CCW. (Actually backup/deep cover gun)
The Ruger LCP is nice but I also looked at the Kel-Tec PF-9/P-11.
My question is would the 9 MM perform adequately out of the 3 inch barrel or is the .380 round optimized for use in very short barrels? I don't want to waste powder on a huge muzzle flash like in the .2 mag pistols.
I like the way the Kel-Tec sits in my hand, the P-11 feels pretty good but I am concerned with recoil in such a small pistol with 9 MM loads and a two finger grip.
All three are about the same price so I am curious if the .380 offers any advantage other than smaller size.
Ammo interchangeability would not be an issue as my normal carry is a .45.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:50:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 8:17:04 PM EST by maleante]
chili without beans
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:51:45 PM EST
I liked the p11 until I tried one. Not for me.

How about the LC9?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:52:33 PM EST
I carry a P3-AT when I'm not carrying my XD45.

A .380 beats nothing. But not by a large margin.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:52:56 PM EST
The answer you are looking for is .40S&W
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:53:20 PM EST
Lots of folks on her prefer the smaller 9mm over 45acp. So I am thinking 380 must be really good.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:53:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:53:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By savage_winchester:
I liked the p11 until I tried one. Not for me.

How about the LC9?


yeah if you are looking at the LCP an LC9 is a no brainer. It's less than an inch taller and longer.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:54:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sturmgewehr-JD:
The answer you are looking for is .40S&W


Do you put the pillow underneath him to get a good 90' insertion as well?

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:56:44 PM EST
9mm in a 3" barrel is > .380 > nothing

/thread
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:59:53 PM EST
All three guys I know that loved and praised their Kel Teks eventually had them fall apart.

380 is a great round, it's as big as you can get and still have a blowback. My favorite is the Sig Sauer 230, Walthers are nice, and I always keep an eye open for a Remington 51.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:00:36 PM EST
I really like the way my Smithy Bodyguard shoots. Played with a few LCPs, never liked the feel or the way they shot. My Smithy feels about the same as my Bionic smartphone in my pocket. The 380 is just small enough to where I can take it and wear it anywhere with 0 discomfort. Basketball shorts, boxers, sweat pants and the like will hold a 380.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:01:35 PM EST
Like my Bulgariam Makarov, bit more oomph than .380, however, will carry my Kimber .45 Ultra-Carry first, and XD-45 Compact, Colt Officer Model .45, etc; .45.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:02:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Originally Posted By savage_winchester:
I liked the p11 until I tried one. Not for me.

How about the LC9?


yeah if you are looking at the LCP an LC9 is a no brainer. It's less than an inch taller and longer.


Or a Kahr CM9, or what the LC9 copies, the Kel-Tec PF9.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:02:53 PM EST
Glock 26
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:04:43 PM EST
Kahr MK40 Or MK9 or PM40 or PM9
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:05:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By cityboy172:
Kahr MK40 Or MK9 or PM40 or PM9


Or CM9, like I said. Virtually the same as the PM9 for less cash.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:06:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 6:07:06 PM EST by Skillshot]

Originally Posted By motoguzzi:

My question is would the 9 MM perform adequately out of the 3 inch barrel

Absolutely Yes, even out of a 2" barrel.

or is the .380 round optimized for use in very short barrels?

380 is a lighter bullet at 21,500 psi. 9mm goes up to 35,000 psi. Don't worry about wasting powder when you life is on the line.


Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:07:11 PM EST
I liked the Ruger until i put one in my hand. It is way to safetied up. The thumb safety doesn't feel natural in the spot that it is in.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:07:20 PM EST
To be honest, I really not have not been paying that much attention, I promise to do better in the future.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:10:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 6:12:00 PM EST by cityboy172]


Originally Posted By Walkure:
Originally Posted By cityboy172:
Kahr MK40 Or MK9 or PM40 or PM9


Or CM9, like I said. Virtually the same as the PM9 for less cash.


I've got the Mk40 and love it. It's run 100% for me, and has functioned very well clean or very dirty. I'm sure the other ones are good, but I can only vouch for the Mk40 and the K9. I've owned both and I say Buy with confidence.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:15:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By motoguzzi:
My question is would the 9 MM perform adequately out of the 3 inch barrel or is the .380 round optimized for use in very short barrels? I don't want to waste powder on a huge muzzle flash like in the .2 mag pistols.

Thanks.


The muzzle flash out of a PF9 with Hornady Critical Defense with the FTX bullet is barely noticeable at night.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:19:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dehammer:
All three guys I know that loved and praised their Kel Teks eventually had them fall apart.

380 is a great round, it's as big as you can get and still have a blowback. My favorite is the Sig Sauer 230, Walthers are nice, and I always keep an eye open for a Remington 51.


Most of the newer .380's are not blowback FWIW.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:19:13 PM EST
I bought a 9mm Walther PPS and I've been quite happy with it. It conceals well, it shoots well. You will pay more for it and magazines aren't cheap though.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:19:33 PM EST
Speer sells a 9mm defensive round designed for short barrels. The recoil isn't fun, but getting mugged is less fun.

I'd get the PF-9 or one of the knock-offs of it, unless you want to pocket carry, in which case a .380. In any case, 9mm > .380, unless you're leaving the 9mm at home.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:22:26 PM EST
I'm a .45 guy, but I wouldn't carry .380 instead of a 9mm. 9mm every day of the week.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:23:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Glock 26


The g26 is positively massive in comparison to the guns being discussed. It is in no way a pocket gun. It's a good gun but not a pocket gun.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:27:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By tc2k11:
Speer sells a 9mm defensive round designed for short barrels. The recoil isn't fun, but getting mugged is less fun.

I'd get the PF-9 or one of the knock-offs of it, unless you want to pocket carry, in which case a .380. In any case, 9mm > .380, unless you're leaving the 9mm at home.


I carry the Speer 9mm +P 124gr Short-Barrel Gold Dot in my CM9. I don't find the recoil too bad at all, really.

I also pocket carry the CM9 with zero issues. I was also looking at the similarly-sized PF-9 and LC9, and wouldn't hesitate to pocket-carry them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:30:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By motoguzzi:
I have been looking for a compact pistol to CCW. (Actually backup/deep cover gun)

have you looked at the Bersa Thunder 380?
http://www.bersa.com/bersa-firearms/thunder-380.html

ar-jedi <–– also interested in opinions on the above

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:36:23 PM EST
Check out the Diamondback DB9. Pretty close in size to a P32. ymmv

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/113301_Diamondback_DB9_photos_and_range_report.html
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:39:53 PM EST
Disclaimer: I have been drinking VERY heavily tonight and am working hard to type coherent sentences. Apologies in advance.

I went with a DB380 for daily carry because I'd be fired in a heartbeat if I was made with a gun. It is the absolute maximum dimension I can effectively conceal 100%. If I could go even a few inches thicker or taller, I'd have gone with the DB9 or my G26. However, it beats harsh language and a pocketknife. I practice a lot more often and restrict myself to noggin-sized targets when I do. Best case, I'm competent enought (when sober ) to compensate for the lack of penetration/expansion. Worst case, it makes me a better shot when carrying my "real" guns.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:40:27 PM EST
I carry Bersa Thunder .380

great ergonomics, 100% reliable, concealable and with right ammo will work on everyone
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:45:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dehammer:
All three guys I know that loved and praised their Kel Teks eventually had them fall apart.

380 is a great round, it's as big as you can get and still have a blowback. My favorite is the Sig Sauer 230, Walthers are nice, and I always keep an eye open for a Remington 51.

.380s didn't become popular until small RECOIL operated pistols were developed. Blow-back .380s are no smaller or lighter than compact 9mms, such is the nature of that action.

Ever shoot a blow-back .45 auto?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:47:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dehammer:

380 is a great round, it's as big as you can get and still have a blowback.

My 115 grain 9mm Makarov rounds disagree with you.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:49:57 PM EST
There's a reason .380 is called a "9mm Short." It falls short of performing like a 9mm. I recently sold my Taurus TCP 738. It was great for concealed, especially with the case that came with it, but I'd rather carry the 709 sized pistol for the added rounds and "comfort." The only issues I really had with the 738 were the sights that were machined into the slide(no replacements) and the long dual action trigger that didn't reset until released.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:52:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Skillshot:

Originally Posted By Dehammer:

380 is a great round, it's as big as you can get and still have a blowback.

My 115 grain 9mm Makarov rounds disagree with you.

Along with 9mm and .40cal HighPoints
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:55:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By KeithC:
Disclaimer: I have been drinking VERY heavily tonight and am working hard to type coherent sentences. Apologies in advance.

I went with a DB380 for daily carry because I'd be fired in a heartbeat if I was made with a gun. It is the absolute maximum dimension I can effectively conceal 100%. If I could go even a few inches thicker or taller, I'd have gone with the DB9 or my G26. However, it beats harsh language and a pocketknife. I practice a lot more often and restrict myself to noggin-sized targets when I do. Best case, I'm competent enought (when sober ) to compensate for the lack of penetration/expansion. Worst case, it makes me a better shot when carrying my "real" guns.


Thats what I have when I don't have a gun. It's been 100% but I still would like to find hot defensive ammo for it. I've been carrying ball in it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:35:11 PM EST
I carry a P3at, because I'm lazy. If you feel like you need a 9, look at the Kahr or if you have some funds, the Robough is probably the nicest pocket 9 ive ever seen. I want one really bad!

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:38:33 PM EST
I looked at .380s and 9mms for a while and finally settled on a 9mm Walther PPS. I'm lovin' it more every day. Crazy thin with plenty of grip. I may buy a P238 for a pocket piece, but I don't want my every day carry to be less than +P 9mm.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:44:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By maleante:
You've been here since '01 and are just now bringing up the 9mm vs .380 conundrum?

Inconceivable


Less normal then the 9mm vs. .45.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:44:43 PM EST
Smokem em if you've got em.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:45:48 PM EST
I carried a .380 for quite a while when a "real gun" wasn't practical... P3AT, LCP, BG380.... Then I noticed the 9mm options weren't all that much bigger.

DB9 is a tiny gun... Shame it's grip angle sucks so hard for me.
PF9/LC9/CM9 have many similar features.... Choose the one you like best.


LC9 for me... It's safety is in the perfect spot. CM9 is too wide for me and the PF9 lacks the thumb safety.... For me the LC9 won... But not by much.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:15:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By motoguzzi:
To be honest, I really not have not been paying that much attention, I promise to do better in the future.

Don't sweat it when people get all high and mighty about stupid bullshit. Personally, I would not carry anything less than a 9mm. I'd look into the S&W M&P 9mm compact. If I wanted a small pistol, it's about the biggest compromise I'd make short of needing something for deep concealment for some extraordinary circumstances.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:26:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Dehammer:
All three guys I know that loved and praised their Kel Teks eventually had them fall apart.

380 is a great round, it's as big as you can get and still have a blowback. My favorite is the Sig Sauer 230, Walthers are nice, and I always keep an eye open for a Remington 51.

.380s didn't become popular until small RECOIL operated pistols were developed. Blow-back .380s are no smaller or lighter than compact 9mms, such is the nature of that action.

Ever shoot a blow-back .45 auto?


.380 has been around a long time. The recoil operated pistols are that way to minimize construction costs, they are built cheap quality and price wise, which probably has more to do with their popularity than how they operate. The handguns I mentioned are very expensive and built to higher standards, they have to be or they fall apart.

Yes there are examples that can prove me wrong. I think the Lorcin has a blowback in 45. I have no desire to pull the trigger on that.

I am surprised you didn't call me out on the Remington 51........they operate via hesitation lock.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:42:27 PM EST
Nobody have the Sig 238 "1911" .380 my buddy just got one, seems like a pretty nice gun, I aint shot it but............
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:50:52 PM EST
I prefer to carry .45 and normally in the Colt Defender in a CrossBreed holster. However the majority of the time its a .380 in a Sig P238

On ocasion will carry 3 - 1911 & the P238; shoulder holser and the three on the belt. However the the .380 is light and very easy to carry.

Now for gun porn;

Did I mention the .380 is bling

.

.

.

.
Buffalo Horn grips

.

.

.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:51:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 8:53:19 PM EST by Slayfan21]
well there it is I want the copper head 238
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:13:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By Slayfan21:
Nobody have the Sig 238 "1911" .380 my buddy just got one, seems like a pretty nice gun, I aint shot it but............


My impression of it was not so good. It was very cast potmetally. Lots of MIM. Overall it just felt cheap.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:14:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dehammer:
Originally Posted By Slayfan21:
Nobody have the Sig 238 "1911" .380 my buddy just got one, seems like a pretty nice gun, I aint shot it but............


My impression of it was not so good. It was very cast potmetally. Lots of MIM. Overall it just felt cheap.



Like a Kimber right?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:20:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Slayfan21:
Originally Posted By Dehammer:
Originally Posted By Slayfan21:
Nobody have the Sig 238 "1911" .380 my buddy just got one, seems like a pretty nice gun, I aint shot it but............


My impression of it was not so good. It was very cast potmetally. Lots of MIM. Overall it just felt cheap.



Like a Kimber right?


LOL.....at least the Kimber has a forged frame and slide, you just have to replace all the other parts. I am old school and I work in manufacturing so cheaply made parts drive me batty sometimes.

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