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Posted: 2/1/2011 4:36:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 4:39:00 AM EDT by Mach]
A Detroit-area district says it's allowing Sikh students to wear a small, religious dagger to school, MyFoxDetroit.com reports.

The decision by the Plymouth-Canton Community Schools reverses a ban put in place in December after a fourth-grader at a Canton Township elementary school was found with a dull, 3- to 5-inch kirpan.


Fox news link for rest of article



Discuss. May I be the first to say IBTL


ETA: changed title from muslim to religious weapon
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:37:23 AM EDT
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:38:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.


LMFAO

First post!
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:38:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.


Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:39:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.


Yeah This.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:39:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By prov:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.




Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:39:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 4:40:59 AM EDT by WinterBorn]
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.


This.

Turban =/=keffiyeh

edited to keep it civil.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:39:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.

this

/thread
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:39:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.


My mistake. Title fixed. I saw the dagger and Detroit and drew a wrong conclusion.

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:41:13 AM EDT
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:41:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 4:42:21 AM EDT by ferretrodeo]
cool. I am setting up a religion where the all mighty ar is a religious weapon then my daughter can take one to school!


ETA: crap! beat me to it.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:42:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Church of The Cornholio
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:42:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Since you beat me to the setup, my family and I will join.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:44:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Mine already requires me to have a 1911 at all times.

Reverend Browning warned us that we'd be perceived as a 'cult' however.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:45:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WinterBorn:This. People are you are why urbanites and euros think red-americans like us are retards.


Careful when throwing that first stone that you don't herp derp that rock straight into the back of your own head. Or at least you don't sound like an Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians song.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:46:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By allenNH:
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Mine already requires me to have a 1911 at all times.

Reverend Browning warned us that we'd be perceived as a 'cult' however.


Sure JMB ain't a prophet?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:47:32 AM EDT
What a slap to the face to the families who's kids got suspended for pointing a french fry, drawing a crayon picture of a gun or even carrying a bible to school.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:49:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:
Originally Posted By allenNH:
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Mine already requires me to have a 1911 at all times.

Reverend Browning warned us that we'd be perceived as a 'cult' however.


Sure JMB ain't a prophet?


Get both?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:51:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.


My mistake. Title fixed. I saw the dagger and Detroit and drew a wrong conclusion.

Thanks


Your assumptions aside, I have no problem with religous artifacts in schools, particularly when the religion in question requires the adherent to wear it. If there was a "zero tolerance" policy on wearing hats to school, I would also support the right of Jews to wear a hijab or kippah.

Most Kirpans worn by modern day Western Sikhs are 3 inch blunt bladed knives, often pinned inside the sheath, not the nasty daggers many people think they are. They are (generally) wholly a ceremonial item with very little utility for causing injury. All that said, we have a large Sikh population here in Houston and I know several Sikhs personally. My, admittedly limited, experience has led me to the conclusion that their kids are not the ones I'd worry about having a knife in school.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:52:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By minime:
What a slap to the face to the families who's kids got suspended for pointing a french fry, drawing a crayon picture of a gun or even carrying a bible to school.


Link, please.

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:54:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.




Our guns, who art in gun safe, hollowed by thy ammo. The bad guys come, your will be done in my house as it is at gun range. Give us this day our daily mags, and forgive us our draw downs. As we blast away those who draw down against us. Lead us not onto Lorcin, but deliver us to our AR15. For thine is the ammo, and the magizine, and the optics, for ever and ever. Amen.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:55:40 AM EDT
Same thing in the U.K which as you probably know has very strict knife laws.
As far as I remember, quite a few of them wear a necklace which represents the knife, as opposed to carrying one; that may just be children.

The knives themselves are not a design I'd want to be on the receiving end of.
Very, very rarely does anyone get stabbed with one, despite many Sikh's living in poorer areas. I think the religion dictates they are only used in defence of the weak... I can't remember really.

I expect that exceptions will have been made in America for them for years.
It just isn't something you will usually ever notice.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:56:31 AM EDT
I am thoroughly unoffended.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:56:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Can I be converted please?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:57:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By minime:
What a slap to the face to the families who's kids got suspended for pointing a french fry, drawing a crayon picture of a gun or even carrying a bible to school.


Says the guy with Vladamir Putin as his avatar.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:05:11 AM EDT
In before people lump Sikhism with Islam....



Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:08:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 5:09:38 AM EDT by monkeymagic]
Don't care, the more Sihks we have the better we're off IMO. They fucking hate Muslims, nothing would please them more than to kill a Muslim
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:09:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:
In before people lump Sikhism with Islam....




Too late.


Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:10:34 AM EDT
I wonder if they would let Gurkhas can carry a kukri
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:12:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:20:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.


My mistake. Title fixed. I saw the dagger and Detroit and drew a wrong conclusion.

Thanks


Your assumptions aside, I have no problem with religous artifacts in schools, particularly when the religion in question requires the adherent to wear it. If there was a "zero tolerance" policy on wearing hats to school, I would also support the right of Jews to wear a hijab or kippah.

Most Kirpans worn by modern day Western Sikhs are 3 inch blunt bladed knives, often pinned inside the sheath, not the nasty daggers many people think they are. They are (generally) wholly a ceremonial item with very little utility for causing injury. All that said, we have a large Sikh population here in Houston and I know several Sikhs personally. My, admittedly limited, experience has led me to the conclusion that their kids are not the ones I'd worry about having a knife in school.


Which is why kids have been expelled for pointing french fries and making a gun with their fingers. The entire thing is bull shit. Either you can have weapons in school or you can't. It is bull shit to allow a certain segment of society to have a blunt edged weapon in school and then expell a kid for pointing a french frie or candy cane. Both of which have happened.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:21:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By Thatdude333:
In before people lump Sikhism with Islam....




Too late.




Yea, the idiot OP already did that.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:22:18 AM EDT
So, may Christians were swords that are crucifix shaped?

May Jews carry shurikens shaped like the Star of David?

M-T-mines (empty minds) wanna no.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:23:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ferretrodeo:
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Since you beat me to the setup, my family and I will join.


Worship will be through arfcom in the virtual world every sunday. Donations will be $24 a year.

BYOW ( bring your own weapons )
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:25:26 AM EDT
this country is getting more by the second.

liberals are by far the largest threat to this nation...changing it from the inside out
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:26:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thorgrimm_the_Vain:
Originally Posted By WinterBorn:This. People are you are why urbanites and euros think red-americans like us are retards.


Careful when throwing that first stone that you don't herp derp that rock straight into the back of your own head. Or at least you don't sound like an Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians song.


In my haste to beat the dupe police while disregarding the spelling police, I saw a name that began with 's' and thought "Shiite". instead of "Sikhs".
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:28:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Originally Posted By minime:
What a slap to the face to the families who's kids got suspended for pointing a french fry, drawing a crayon picture of a gun or even carrying a bible to school.


Link, please.



http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/85810057.html - Here's an example. There were others through the years but I don't have enough time to continue.
While not an official stance, many misguided and misinformed school officials still have a proclivity to try to keep Christian expressions of faith out of their schools citing the separation of church and state.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:29:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OKSoda:
Originally Posted By minime:
What a slap to the face to the families who's kids got suspended for pointing a french fry, drawing a crayon picture of a gun or even carrying a bible to school.


Says the guy with Vladamir Putin as his avatar.


Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:32:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By ferretrodeo:
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Since you beat me to the setup, my family and I will join.


Worship will be through arfcom in the virtual world every sunday. Donations will be $24 a year.

BYOW ( bring your own weapons )

I suppose instead of "Amen" we'll say "FUArock"?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:32:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By minime:

Originally Posted By OKSoda:
Originally Posted By minime:
What a slap to the face to the families who's kids got suspended for pointing a french fry, drawing a crayon picture of a gun or even carrying a bible to school.


Says the guy with Vladamir Putin as his avatar.




Lol
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:33:31 AM EDT
My religon is whooping ass with a machete.

Can I bring it to school?
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:34:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SouthEndXGF:

Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By ferretrodeo:
Originally Posted By Mach:
I am starting a religion that requires the constant possession of an AR15 with 8 fully loaded 30 round mags for salvation.

Name of said religion to be decided.


Since you beat me to the setup, my family and I will join.


Worship will be through arfcom in the virtual world every sunday. Donations will be $24 a year.

BYOW ( bring your own weapons )

I suppose instead of "Amen" we'll say "FUArock"?


sounds good to me.

Fuck You Arock.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:38:09 AM EDT
Will this open the door to sue based on selective enforcement and philosophical beliefs???
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:39:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 5:43:41 AM EDT by HKUSP45C]
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.


My mistake. Title fixed. I saw the dagger and Detroit and drew a wrong conclusion.

Thanks


Your assumptions aside, I have no problem with religous artifacts in schools, particularly when the religion in question requires the adherent to wear it. If there was a "zero tolerance" policy on wearing hats to school, I would also support the right of Jews to wear a hijab or kippah.

Most Kirpans worn by modern day Western Sikhs are 3 inch blunt bladed knives, often pinned inside the sheath, not the nasty daggers many people think they are. They are (generally) wholly a ceremonial item with very little utility for causing injury. All that said, we have a large Sikh population here in Houston and I know several Sikhs personally. My, admittedly limited, experience has led me to the conclusion that their kids are not the ones I'd worry about having a knife in school.


Which is why kids have been expelled for pointing french fries and making a gun with their fingers. The entire thing is bull shit. Either you can have weapons in school or you can't. It is bull shit to allow a certain segment of society to have a blunt edged weapon in school and then expell a kid for pointing a french frie or candy cane. Both of which have happened.


You're talking about two totally different things. One is a kid who is playing an ostensibly harmless game and a school over reacting to extremes. The other is a kid whose religion requires him to wear 5 articles of religious artifacts (The 5 Ks) as a matter of course and the school recognizing the child's right to free practice of his/her religion.

I'm not arguing that there should be a double standard. I don't, personally, think knives in school is something we need to be "cracking down on." However, there is no religious requirement for the vast majority of kids to have a knife in school, there is one for Sikhs. There's also no religious requirement for children to play "guns" at school but, that's really an ancillary point here.

So, while I agree, in principle, the rules for everyday life in school should be the same for all of the children, it gets a little less black and white when you start including the requirements of some religions. If this country was founded on the principles that every freeman and woman should be allowed to practice their chosen religion free from persecution and suppression (and it really was!) then we must make allowences for people to adhere to their religious tenets and mandates.

Like I said, how many people would refuse a Jewish woman the right to cover her hair with a hijab in accordance with her understanding of tzniyut if the school decreed that no hats should be worn on school grounds? If we're going to show outrage at the concessions made for some religions we need to make sure we're outraged by them all. Or, we need to start hiring administrators to run our schools without expelling children for nothing more than having a knife or pointing a french fry.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:42:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By minime:

Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Originally Posted By minime:
What a slap to the face to the families who's kids got suspended for pointing a french fry, drawing a crayon picture of a gun or even carrying a bible to school.


Link, please.



http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/85810057.html - Here's an example. There were others through the years but I don't have enough time to continue.
While not an official stance, many misguided and misinformed school officials still have a proclivity to try to keep Christian expressions of faith out of their schools citing the separation of church and state.


Leaving aside that the kid wasn't suspended, or punished at all, I think we can all agree that this administrator is an idiot. I'm not participating in this discussion as a means of defending idiots. Idiots, like this one, should be summarily fired and prohibited from interacting with children ever again.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:42:41 AM EDT
Spend some time talking to an observant Sikh about their beliefs. They are most certainly not Muslim.

The dagger they wear is not a weapon. It generally doesn't even have an edge. Why anyone in this country would be afraid of a Sikh is beyond me.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:43:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By prov:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Uhhhhh.....I'm pretty sure sikhs are not muslim.





More accurate.......they are definitely NOT Christians...........So it is OK.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:44:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jeepnstein:
Spend some time talking to an observant Sikh about their beliefs. They are most certainly not Muslim.

The dagger they wear is not a weapon. It generally doesn't even have an edge. Why anyone in this country would be afraid of a Sikh is beyond me.


Similarly, a toy gun is not a "weapon."

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:45:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AmericanLoki:
I wonder if they would let Gurkhas can carry a kukri

The real question is how does one take it away from him? I'm betting it could get messy.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:48:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By monkeymagic:
Don't care, the more Sihks we have the better we're off IMO. They fucking hate Muslims, nothing would please them more than to kill a Muslim


I didnt know that.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:48:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
Originally Posted By jeepnstein:
Spend some time talking to an observant Sikh about their beliefs. They are most certainly not Muslim.

The dagger they wear is not a weapon. It generally doesn't even have an edge. Why anyone in this country would be afraid of a Sikh is beyond me.


Similarly, a toy gun is not a "weapon."



It's also not a religous artifact that is required to be carried by holy mandate. Let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples.
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