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Posted: 11/1/2006 6:33:50 PM EST
Personaally I am starting to think we should kill off the militias at least to the point the government is the strongest then leave. Splitting them 3 ways with clear cut borders would really screw the Sunnis (insurgents) and insure their eventual crushing by the Kurds and Shiites.

Well?
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:38:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:39:44 PM EST
Split it four ways the Christians there can have a slice too.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:41:02 PM EST
it's worth a shot.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:42:22 PM EST
My thoughts are--

Pull back. STOP holding their frigging hand and seal up the Iraqi borders. Let them figure out what the hell their future is. Go home. Right now Iraq is like the 6 yr old kid who still has a pacifier in his mouth and still wants to sleep in bed with mommy and daddy. Its far time for them to quit acting like Democrats and actually do something for themselves.

To think we can create a stable democracy in Iraq is a pipe dream. The people are not capable of it. Anyone who really thought or thinks there will be a stable Democracy in Iraq is smoking crack.

If the IRAQIS determine to split it 3 ways, then let them. I don't see it happening tough, maybe 2 ways but as long as the Sunni are hanging around, there will be major problems.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:51:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:51:42 PM EST
Give the Kurds what they've always wanted - Kurdistan. Give the Sunni's their triangle, and let the Shiites have everything else...
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:54:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
hell yes. Make the Kurds our allies and let the sunnis and shittes fuck off and die. Make Mosul sunni-frei.
We gave them the chance, same as S. Vietnam. They didn't want to fight for it. In Korea, the ROKs did. We can only hold their hands for so long.


Like this idea. The Shiites might be reachable still though, the Sunnis are a lost cause, and best of all bases in Kurdistan.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:55:49 PM EST
I'm in favor, but we should stay in all 3 new countries.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 6:58:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:03:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
I'm in favor, but we should stay in all 3 new countries.


We are welcomed in Kurdistan not elsewhere. The only ones with motivation to cross borders would be the Sunnis because they are reportedly at a resource disadvantage. Most of the oil would go to the Kurds and Shiites.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:13:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
I'm in favor, but we should stay in all 3 new countries.

fuck that.
Kurdistan only. And provide support for the Turkish and Iranian Kurds to expand the borders.
Hey Turkey, hows the EU membership working out for you? you backstabbing fucks.


Yeah, the problem is the turks would never allow a free kurdistan. Moment we left they would roll tanks in to stop it. They'd loose half of their country or more if kurdistan popped up with anything resembling ethnic borders. Then again if the US maintained close ties to the kurds all the turks could do is go eat a cold bowl of fuck. Would serve em right too for fucking us over during the 2003 invasion.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:16:58 PM EST
titoism or sadammism is dead we cannot keep the peace. Split them and then create borders for them all. But problem is how does big oil get hold get 3 countries to play ball?

it is just a screwed up place all we did with the invasion was kick start the problems that were going to happen.
it was going to happen anyway.



Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:22:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
hell yes. Make the Kurds our allies and let the sunnis and shittes fuck off and die. Make Mosul sunni-frei.
We gave them the chance, same as S. Vietnam. They didn't want to fight for it. In Korea, the ROKs did. We can only hold their hands for so long.


Like this idea. The Shiites might be reachable still though, the Sunnis are a lost cause, and best of all bases in Kurdistan.
Reachable, I give a shit we lost 2 good men fighting Madhi army, they can all go to hell.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:30:42 PM EST
IBTL

I'm more inclined to attempt turning the place into a billion little pieces...
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:37:24 PM EST
Do we get to keep the part with the oil?


Steve
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:41:40 PM EST
Short term, it sounds great....gets everyone calmed down and us home.

Long term? Retarded idea....splitting a balkanized region into even more small, angry parts....all disproportionate.

If we're ever going to rid ourselves of the Middle East as a problem area, we either have to wipe it off the face of the earth (popular but forbidden ARFcom solution), isolate it completely and don't buy their oil (not likely), or take a strong hand to bring our brand of freedom to people....which will take many years, cost a lot, and be bumpy along the way.

I think Dubya saw the last option as our goal, but sadly even here in his cheerleading section people are already quitting on him.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:41:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
hell yes. Make the Kurds our allies and let the sunnis and shittes fuck off and die. Make Mosul sunni-frei.
We gave them the chance, same as S. Vietnam. They didn't want to fight for it. In Korea, the ROKs did. We can only hold their hands for so long.


Like this idea. The Shiites might be reachable still though, the Sunnis are a lost cause, and best of all bases in Kurdistan.
Reachable, I give a shit we lost 2 good men fighting Madhi army, they can all go to hell.


Did I not advocate smashing the militias? Sorry for the loss of your friends though.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 8:03:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
My thoughts are--

Pull back. STOP holding their frigging hand and seal up the Iraqi borders. Let them figure out what the hell their future is. Go home. Right now Iraq is like the 6 yr old kid who still has a pacifier in his mouth and still wants to sleep in bed with mommy and daddy. Its far time for them to quit acting like Democrats and actually do something for themselves.

To think we can create a stable democracy in Iraq is a pipe dream. The people are not capable of it. Anyone who really thought or thinks there will be a stable Democracy in Iraq is smoking crack.

If the IRAQIS determine to split it 3 ways, then let them. I don't see it happening tough, maybe 2 ways but as long as the Sunni are hanging around, there will be major problems.


I think that there is a good chance of Iraq becoming an Iranian puppet state if we did that.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 8:14:16 PM EST
I think it's great. History has shown that foreign powers carving up nations always brings peace. No wait, that's how we got here in the 1st place.

All this trouble over "an empire based on putting your feet up"
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 8:22:24 PM EST
I have thought that a three-way split was the way to go for a long time. Really, why do we insist on three groups of people who obviously do not want to be together on being together? When Saddam was in power he had to use the most brutal of tactics to keep everyone under his thumb.

Look at the former Yugoslavia - a whole bunch of killing in order to keep together. Once they broke apart, a relative peace set in. Sure, there is still violence, but not nearly as bad as in the 90's.

If we do it properly, the Kurds will be very good allies to us. They have a bunch of oil in the north so they can pay for good defences against the Sunnis.

The Shia might try to join Iran, but so what? We still buy oil from Iran. To be honest, I think that if Iran tried to absorb the Shia territory from Iraq they would seriously anger a lot of their own population and may instigate a revolution from within.

As for Turkey, well, I think they lost their chance to have much say in the matter. They'll just have to deal with a Kurdistan.

Now, if we can just get Kalifornia and Massachusetts to split off...
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 8:23:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 8:28:13 PM EST by K2QB3]
If we don't effect regime change in Iran, and if we don't stay in Iraq forever, then Iraq becoming a puppet state seems pretty certain regardless of what else we do.

Makes no sense to leave Iraq in the hands of the likes of SCIRI, particularly the Kurdish areas that deserve better.

I just don't see how that outcome benefits the US or is worthy of our blood and treasure.

I'm starting to think maybe we should consider it, build permanent bases in a friendly sovereign greater Kurdistan, extract some (heavy) concessions from Iran in exchange for allowing them influence in southern Iraq and maybe do the same with Syria and the triangle.

Hold onto some oil rights, get an inspection regime going on their nuclear program, a statement on Israels right to exist, etc.

You never know what they might be willing to give up in exchange for a seat at the table.

I don't really like that idea, but I don't like any of the options that seem to be within the realm of possibility any better either.

The popularity of "kill them all" sentiments speaks volumes about the likelyhood of a successful, unified, friendly, democratic Iraq.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 6:59:10 AM EST
Bump.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 7:06:09 AM EST
The animosity between Arabs and Persians is just as bad as between Shia and Sunni. Arab Shia in Iraq will not submit to rule by Persian Shia from Iran. The Iranians/Persians are currently in the middle of ethnic cleansing of Arabs inside Iran. This ethnic cleansing hasn't gone unnoticed by Arabs in Iraq.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 7:09:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
I'm in favor, but we should stay in all 3 new countries.

fuck that.
Kurdistan only. And provide support for the Turkish and Iranian Kurds to expand the borders.
Hey Turkey, hows the EU membership working out for you? you backstabbing fucks.


I'm liking the way this Woop thinks.....
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 7:10:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
hell yes. Make the Kurds our allies and let the sunnis and shittes fuck off and die. Make Mosul sunni-frei.
We gave them the chance, same as S. Vietnam. They didn't want to fight for it. In Korea, the ROKs did. We can only hold their hands for so long.



+1
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 7:34:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Give the Kurds what they've always wanted - Kurdistan. Give the Sunni's their triangle, and let the Shiites have everything else...


Then you piss off the Turks and Syrians.

We should keep it a country, and help them mold a national identity as Iraqis.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 7:36:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By GSPatton:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
My thoughts are--

Pull back. STOP holding their frigging hand and seal up the Iraqi borders. Let them figure out what the hell their future is. Go home. Right now Iraq is like the 6 yr old kid who still has a pacifier in his mouth and still wants to sleep in bed with mommy and daddy. Its far time for them to quit acting like Democrats and actually do something for themselves.

To think we can create a stable democracy in Iraq is a pipe dream. The people are not capable of it. Anyone who really thought or thinks there will be a stable Democracy in Iraq is smoking crack.

If the IRAQIS determine to split it 3 ways, then let them. I don't see it happening tough, maybe 2 ways but as long as the Sunni are hanging around, there will be major problems.


I think that there is a good chance of Iraq becoming an Iranian puppet state if we did that.


Unlikely - the Iraqis would never go along with it.
Arabs and Persians are like New Yorkers and Bostonians.
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