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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/11/2002 2:51:47 AM EST
Here's the question You are passenger in a car that has been stopped for a moving violation. You have done nothing wrong and you are wearing your seatbelt. The officer looks at you in the back seat and asked you for your ID. First,what do you do? Second what do you think your rights are if you refuse to give him your ID. (and forget the answer ,cooperate so friend does not get the ticket,pretend you don't like the guy driving)
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 2:53:37 AM EST
They do things differently in NJ I thought!!! mug
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 2:57:58 AM EST
Here's what you do..... You MOVE to Free America.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 3:01:32 AM EST
Hey guys this is about what you would do ,not what i would do. I have already refused to give up my ID.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 3:04:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By jrzy: Hey guys this is about what you would do ,not what i would do. I have already refused to give up my ID.
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So what did they do to you?
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 3:06:52 AM EST
I believe I'm obliged to give him identification if asked for it, but I am not subject to search and/or seizure unless there is probable cause to search me specifically. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 3:15:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By ar10er:
Originally Posted By jrzy: Hey guys this is about what you would do ,not what i would do. I have already refused to give up my ID.
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So what did they do to you?
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Nothing,there was nothing they could do,we spent an extra 45 minutes on the side of the road with two of my so called friends telling me to "just give him the damn ID so we can go" There was sergeant called to the scene and then a call to the Lt. at the station,in the end they had a choice ,arrest me if they thought i was a criminal in hiding or let me go. I don't like being treated like a criminal and was just invoking my rights,the officer was a JBT type and became really angry when i refused to give up the ID ,not just miffed,he was pissed. He took the stance like "how dare you refuse to give me your ID(para phrasing)
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 3:37:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2002 3:40:45 AM EST by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By jrzy: Here's the question You are passenger in a car that has been stopped for a moving violation. You have done nothing wrong and you are wearing your seatbelt. The officer looks at you in the back seat and asked you for your ID. First,what do you do?
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Get out & walk away. The courts have consistantly ruled that a traffic stop of the vehilce/driver gives no right to detain the passengers. However they have also ruled the cops can demand ID form the passengers due the the inherent risk of car stops. So if you choose to stay with the car/driver, the cops can ask for ID.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 3:59:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By jrzy: Here's the question You are passenger in a car that has been stopped for a moving violation. You have done nothing wrong and you are wearing your seatbelt. The officer looks at you in the back seat and asked you for your ID. First,what do you do?
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Get out & walk away. The courts have consistantly ruled that a traffic stop of the vehilce/driver gives no right to detain the passengers. However they have also ruled the cops can demand ID form the passengers due the the inherent risk of car stops. So if you choose to stay with the car/driver, the cops can ask for ID.
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I remember reading about the jamaican guy that use to walk to work and cut through beverly hills and was stopped something like 200 times in one year and given a citation for refusing to show his ID, the US supreme court uled that that the police had no right to stop him on the street and ask him for ID,now i don't see how riding in a car decreases your rights. The one cop in my case was asking the sergeant about the old law of "failing to give a good account of yourself",the sergeant told him that law was wiped out years before. So they didn't have a charge to make. I guess they could have held me for a while ,but for what i don't know.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 4:02:08 AM EST
I can just see that ,you start walking away and the officer says, "where you going,did i tell you that you could leave".
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 4:47:43 AM EST
Good thing about that is, now you're 'detained' and the clock is running. After about 20-30 minutes, they're in unreasonable detention territory.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 6:06:31 AM EST
I don't know about the rest of the country but in Tx it's illegal to refuse to give ID to an officer. Especially if you have a CHL. And they allways get ID on every passenger of a vehicle, adult pasengers anyhow.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 6:16:21 AM EST
A very good question jrzy. I would be inclined to decline as you did so long as I was just an innocent passenger. I am going to research TN law in this regard just for grins....This does invoke pictures of men in long leather coats...
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 6:18:45 AM EST
HOW COME THE NJ STATE PATROL'S DRESS UNIFORM MAKES THEM LOOK LIKE MINI-HITLERS???? I have always found that a bit offensive. Nobody there seems to mind.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 6:44:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Boomholzer: HOW COME THE NJ STATE PATROL'S DRESS UNIFORM MAKES THEM LOOK LIKE MINI-HITLERS???? I have always found that a bit offensive. Nobody there seems to mind.
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It makes them feel special. Everyone knows they are all just glorified traffic cops; they know it, the real cops know it, and the people know it. Their pretty dresses make them feel like real cops.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 6:47:46 AM EST
I would happily give him my I.D. and offer him a dounut...you see my friend I am am 100 percent legal and I have nothing to fear. In the worst case senario of mistaken Identity I could offer to take a lie detector test and they will know I am telling the truth. There is no reason not to cooperate with an officer, he is not out to get me, I am on his side since I am not a criminal. I love my rose colored glasses, btw, my dad always taught me to respect officers and be polite. It has never failed me. Ever.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 7:47:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By FlagWaver: I would happily give him my I.D. and offer him a dounut...you see my friend I am am 100 percent legal and I have nothing to fear. In the worst case senario of mistaken Identity I could offer to take a lie detector test and they will know I am telling the truth. There is no reason not to cooperate with an officer, he is not out to get me, I am on his side since I am not a criminal. I love my rose colored glasses, btw, my dad always taught me to respect officers and be polite. It has never failed me. Ever.
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I have nothing to hide either,and i was very polite as a matter of fact. But your remarks beg the question , What other rights are you willing to fork over on demand? How's this,Officer at your front door: "Can I come in and search your house if you have nothing to hide,that is?" You see for me it's not about busting the cops chops,it's about my rights and my right not be looked at like a common criminal just because i am in a car with someone who drove to fast. It is my right not to be questioned in any fashion unless i consent to the questions,PERIOD! I don't have to say a word,i don't have to refuse to answer,all I have do is remain silent ,then what is the officer going to do. Arrest me for not talking ? Bullshit i say,stand up for the little things now before you have to make a stand on a big issue. You see once "they" start taking rights away how ever small the next one becomes easier and easier. Think i'm wrong? Look at our gun rights and tell me we have the same ones we had 30 years ago.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 7:55:55 AM EST
YMMV, but here in UT: Traffic Stops: A Bubble Around the Passenger Utah law prohibits even asking a passenger their name on a routine traffic stop unless law enforcement has prior articulable suspicion to believe that the passenger is engaged in criminal activity. By B. Kent Morgan Deputy District Attorney It is not unusual to feel unsettled when approaching a driver on a routine traffic stop after observing that the same car is full of boisterous passengers. It would seem that the minimum precaution to take under these circumstances would be to obtain identification from the driver and passengers and run them for wants and warrants. Armed with this additional information, law enforcement officers could more easily make informed judgments as to whether additional precautions need to be taken. However, Utah law prohibits this practice unless the investigating officer has prior articulable suspicion to believe the passenger is engaged in criminal activity. Moreover, without some justification, law enforcement officers can’t even ask the passengers their names and dates of birth.1 continued here: [url]http://www.co.slc.ut.us/da/html/news&publications/uplink/uplink2_1.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 8:01:52 AM EST
But your remarks beg the question , What other rights are you willing to fork over on demand?
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No one elses rights, just mine. First off, to [b]me[/b] in my humble opinion (however wrong you think I may be) rights have nothing to do with it...it's a matter of trust. I trust he is honestly doing his job, and that he is not out to hurt me. For whatever reason, he wants to i.d. me, nothing wrong there, I would be happy to oblige. I'm on his side, I want to stop criminals (people who rob, cheat and steal) why? because I hate criminals with a passion, thats why. I respect the officer because I know he works hard to catch the criminal. This has nothing to do with guns.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 8:02:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2002 8:04:14 AM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 8:07:34 AM EST
It is for the safety of the officers. You civilians are considered suspects until proven otherwise.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 8:12:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul: Which begs me to ask what other things you are also willing to refuse to do - like pay your income and real estate taxes, obey speed limits, pull over when an ambulance is attempting to pass you, allow a fireman into your home to put out a fire ... There is a difference between Nazi Germany and the United States; honest to God you people making the equivalency arguments really scare me. If you're not smart enough to figure the difference between the Nazis and the police at a traffic stop you've got deep deep issues. It is really important for you to know the difference and understand these things. [;)]
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Paul ask away ,i obey the laws of this country and pay my taxes ,for you to equate this to having your rights violated is clouding the issue on whether it is Ok to ID you and if you have the right to refuse based on the fact that it is your right.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 8:38:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 8:41:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By jrzy: Here's the question You are passenger in a car that has been stopped for a moving violation. You have done nothing wrong and you are wearing your seatbelt. The officer looks at you in the back seat and asked you for your ID. First,what do you do? Second what do you think your rights are if you refuse to give him your ID. (and forget the answer ,cooperate so friend does not get the ticket,pretend you don't like the guy driving)
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Sorry officer, since I am not driving, I left my wallet at home. My name is Haywood Jablome
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:14:09 AM EST
Give him your damn ID and get moving. If you have nothing to hide, get the routine over with. Every run I've ever had with cops (only a few) that question was asked every single time. There just trying to get stories straight by having correct names and also trying to weed out people that have outstanding convictions. ICops use almost every chance to find people with outstanding felonys, and rightly so!! I don't want those F'ers on the street, so I'll do my part and help them weed these slime off the street by showing them I'm not one of those people. I have nothing to hide...
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:16:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By MurderSHO45: Give him your damn ID and get moving. If you have nothing to hide, get the routine over with. Every run I've ever had with cops (only a few) that question was asked every single time. There just trying to get stories straight by having correct names and also trying to weed out people that have outstanding convictions. ICops use almost every chance to find people with outstanding felonys, and rightly so!! I don't want those F'ers on the street, so I'll do my part and help them weed these slime off the street by showing them I'm not one of those people. I have nothing to hide...
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AMEN, brother! Keving67
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:24:33 AM EST
Some of you guys should just go down and turn in all yours guns now and avoid the rush,if you think one has nothing to do with the other then like i said ,you just don't get it. They take a little here and a little there and before you know it the guns are gone your right to remain silent is gone and a host of other rights are gine. It is much easier to keep the rights we have now then to try and fight and get them back later. If everyone stands up for their rights no matter how small the violation is then when it comes to taking away a major right they might just think twice about it. Here's a simplistic analogy , There is a school yard bully ,does he pick on the kid that will fight back? NO! He will pick on the kid he knows will not fight back. You think this post is about a lousy traffic stop? It is about you giving up a right because you were told to. Not a lawful order,just an order by a cop to "show me your papers"
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:26:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul: So then comply with the laws as applicable to your state [rolleyes]
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Paul it is your right under fed law not to be questioned with out your consent.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:32:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2002 9:43:25 AM EST by Johninaustin]
Jrzy again. Never a dull moment in your life is there? Let's try to keep this simple. Do you have ID? What is the purpose to carrying ID? To identify yourself in unclear situations? A police officer wanting to know if you are a criminal or not would fall into the definition of a unclear situation, because criminals obviously don't want the police to know who they are. Since even your buds seem to think you are an idiot, maybe it's time you kicked in some rational thought processes. In this state, Failure to ID (Hint ID'ing yourself requires you tell the truth about your name and date of birth.) Means a trip to jail. Catch a lot of crooks that way. People in authority have been asking folks who they are since this country has been founded, and somehow my gun collection just keeps getting bigger, bought two more just yesterday. CLUEBAT: asking for you to identify is not "questioning" I think you have a bad case of SPS.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:40:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Johninaustin: Jrzy again. Never a dull moment in your life is there? Let's try to keep this simple. Do you have ID? What is the purpose to carrying ID? To identify yourself in unclear situations? A police officer wanting to know if you are a criminal or not would fall into the definition of a unclear situation, because criminals obviously don't want the police to know who they are. Since even your buds seem to think you are an idiot, maybe it's time you kicked in some rational thought processes. In this state, Fialure to ID (Hint ID'ing yourself requires you tell the truth about your name and date of birth.) Means a trip to jail. Catch a lot of crooks that way.
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Calling me an idiot by proxy is not going to change the fact that texas law states that only if you are under arrest you have yo give your rightful name,now if you want to be a sheeple be my guest. And for the record my friends were in a hurry and did not call me an idiot,they simply felt like you comply and bend over. And just because you say it's so don't make it law. Now look up and post what you just said was the law in texas or we can assume you didn't know what you were talking about.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:53:33 AM EST
Sorry Jrzy, Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and we do not admonish you for yours. IMHO, as in Flagwavers, the cop is supposed to be trusted, so we extend the trust to him, we comply with his request because we do not fear him, in fact we like him, we are on his side, the side of the law. Where the law ends, tyranny begins.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:55:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2002 9:57:34 AM EST by MurderSHO45]
Originally Posted By jrzy: Some of you guys should just go down and turn in all yours guns now and avoid the rush,if you think one has nothing to do with the other then like i said ,you just don't get it. They take a little here and a little there and before you know it the guns are gone your right to remain silent is gone and a host of other rights are gine. It is much easier to keep the rights we have now then to try and fight and get them back later. If everyone stands up for their rights no matter how small the violation is then when it comes to taking away a major right they might just think twice about it. Here's a simplistic analogy , There is a school yard bully ,does he pick on the kid that will fight back? NO! He will pick on the kid he knows will not fight back. You think this post is about a lousy traffic stop? It is about you giving up a right because you were told to. Not a lawful order,just an order by a cop to "show me your papers"
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Cops don't create laws, they just enforce them. Therefor your statement has no meaning, period. 3 Words Jrzy, Mail Your Congressman.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 10:00:09 AM EST
Jrzy,, I've read your posts over the past while and have come to my own conclusions about you. They are not favorable. In fact, they're downright unpleasant. I am not your teacher. Want research? Do it yourself. I've arrested many suspects on failure to identify. Not one of them to date has been an "Innocent" that's had his "rights" violated. You run your mouth with either deliberate fabrications or arrogant opinions with no information. Somehow these flights of fantasy always have you appearing, (in your eyes) as the hero. If you want to pick fights to somehow prove your manhood go out to the playground.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 10:21:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Johninaustin: I've arrested many suspects on failure to identify. Not one of them to date has been an "Innocent" that's had his "rights" violated.
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I thought there might be a common theme with the people advocating carrying a tube of K-Y in the glovebox.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 10:35:33 AM EST
Here's something that happened to me when a few years ago. It still pisses me off every time I think of it. My brother and I were driving to Rehobah Beach, Delaware. My brother was driving and I was riding shotgun. Passing through Mt.Gilead, Ohio we get pulled over going about 72 in 55 zone. We were very respectful, yes sir, no sir... The Officer must have been in a bad mood because he decides to also ticket both of us for not wearing seat belts. Ok, he's within his rights but here's the kicker... he decides that he will keep MY drivers licence and it will be mailed back to me when I make the payment! I was like WTF??? I wasn't even driving!!! To make a long story short I didn't put up any arguement since we were already running late. Either way I did get my license back after a couple of weeks but I thought it was a bunch of B.S.!!! What should have I done differently?
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 12:04:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2002 12:27:16 PM EST by MurderSHO45]
Originally Posted By Yojimbo: Here's something that happened to me when a few years ago. It still pisses me off every time I think of it. My brother and I were driving to Rehobah Beach, Delaware. My brother was driving and I was riding shotgun. Passing through Mt.Gilead, Ohio we get pulled over going about 72 in 55 zone. We were very respectful, yes sir, no sir... The Officer must have been in a bad mood because he decides to also ticket both of us for not wearing seat belts. Ok, he's within his rights but here's the kicker... he decides that he will keep MY drivers licence and it will be mailed back to me when I make the payment! I was like WTF??? I wasn't even driving!!! To make a long story short I didn't put up any arguement since we were already running late. Either way I did get my license back after a couple of weeks but I thought it was a bunch of B.S.!!! What should have I done differently?
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Tell him to F off and he can pay for any infractions you recieve for NOT having your ID. He's basically telling you you can't drive, smoke, drink, buy firearms, or whatever people do or buy that requires an ID. This can't be legal for him to take it away like that.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 12:04:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2002 12:06:49 PM EST by jrzy]
Originally Posted By Johninaustin: Jrzy,, I've read your posts over the past while and have come to my own conclusions about you. They are not favorable. In fact, they're downright unpleasant. I am not your teacher. Want research? Do it yourself. I've arrested many suspects on failure to identify. Not one of them to date has been an "Innocent" that's had his "rights" violated. You run your mouth with either deliberate fabrications or arrogant opinions with no information. Somehow these flights of fantasy always have you appearing, (in your eyes) as the hero. If you want to pick fights to somehow prove your manhood go out to the playground.
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You have arrested people for not giving up their ID huh? well you have comitted false arrest according to your state law. § 38.02. Failure to Identify (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information. (b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has: (1) lawfully arrested the person; If you have arrested someone and they refuse then you can charge them with failing to ID,you don't know the law or you refuse to accept your own state laws. You know i always get along fine with most LEO's but your JBTness is showing. As for your assumption that i have flights of fantacy,I can prove everything i post here and other boards. There are many on these boards that know me personaly and they would call me on a lie if i told one here or on other boards. I can back up with proof eveything i say . You call me arogant because i refuse to submit to your view point? You don't want the general public to be educated about their rights so you call me arogant and attack my credibility. By the way here's the link to your state law,read it before someones sues you for false arrest. [url]http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0003800.html#pe002.38.02[/url] Now it's time for you to eat these words and show you are a man and can make a mistake and admit it. Originally Posted By Johninaustin "You run your mouth with either deliberate fabrications or arrogant opinions with no information."
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 12:43:04 PM EST
Here's a story for you: My cousin is a deputy in Oregon and i went on a ride-along with him. We are stopped at a light and the car in front of us has two dirtbags in it and expired tags. So he pulls them over. Asks for ID from both. The passenger had a warrant so my cousin arrests him. Later my cousin told me that the passenger didn't have to give him any ID and could have gotten away. Now this was at least 10 years ago and i don't know what Oregon law is now. And i'm sure we are all glad that a criminal got caught. But take it for what its worth.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 12:46:37 PM EST
You "cluebat" wielders really need to go back a page and read my post. Talk about a lot of ignorant windbags. LEARN the law, then speak about it.
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