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Posted: 9/17/2004 2:26:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:36:33 PM EST by cyanide]
It has been many years and the Domestic Violence prohibition --

The law that says that if you were ever convicted of DV you are not allowed to own a firearm.

Do you think this is a "just" law or just a partial gun grab by the anti's ?


I have known a few guys "unjustly" charged by their wives -- just before divorce and have seen many screwed by this bizarre law ???


What are your feelings on it ?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:27:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:28:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:29:10 PM EST by MrClean4Hire]
If guilty,It shows that you cannot control your temper. So should you be trusted with any weapons?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:28:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
It shows that you cannot control your temper, so should you be trusted with any weapons?



What he said
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:29:08 PM EST
It's a gun grab.

It's a gun grabbing trap?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:31:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
It shows that you cannot control your temper, so should you be trusted with any weapons?



What he said



I see -- kind of like preventing a crime before it occurs ..... ?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:31:33 PM EST
Who was it that said, "You have to beat your woman just right to get her to make heartshaped biscuits for you"?

Oh yeah, that was me!

All kidding aside, each situation should be evaluated on it's own. Not just a one size fits all sentance.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:32:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
If guilty,It shows that you cannot control your temper. So should you be trusted with any weapons?



I guess that you could look at it that way.

But when my wife told me that she didn't love me anymore and had been having an affair I almost punched her out on the spot. I could have killed her with my bare hands. I did restrain myself, barely. If I had slipped and zapped her, should I be banned from gun ownership forever?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:32:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:33:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:33:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
It shows that you cannot control your temper, so should you be trusted with any weapons?



What he said



I see -- kind of like preventing a crime before it occurs ..... ?



Hey! We have Precrime!

And I thought that was just a movie.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:34:18 PM EST
It's Bullshit.

Ssgtar15
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:34:56 PM EST
Nothing says I love you like a good punch in the face.

I think the issue as to whether the charges are bogus is important. Some women know they can call the police and say they've been abused and have little or no proof.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:35:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:40:05 PM EST by MrClean4Hire]

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
It shows that you cannot control your temper, so should you be trusted with any weapons?



What he said



I see -- kind of like preventing a crime before it occurs ..... ?



I wouldn't call it that, more like you have lost the trust of society to be responsible for your own actions. You can't or won't control yourself someone will for you. Of course this applies only to actual wife beaters, not accused only. A lot of men nowadays are women haters and would not think twice about "bitch slapping" a woman. These are the little boys I'm referrring to.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:35:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
It's Bullshit.

Ssgtar15



Exactly.

1 more reason I will live alone.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:38:22 PM EST
POLL
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:38:56 PM EST
There should be no gun laws - everybody walking the street should have the right to carry a gun.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:40:15 PM EST
I believe it is too harsh a punishment.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:41:01 PM EST
poll coming
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:41:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:
poll coming



About friggen' time!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:44:04 PM EST
Gun grab!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:45:30 PM EST
What's next, taking away your firearms Rights for speeding tickets? Hey, if you endanger other peoples lives with a 2 ton car how can you be trusted with something that only shoots a 55gr. bullet?
The DV deal is total bullshit and just another excuse to take away peoples guns. There are guys that have never laid a finger on their wife that had a loud argument and plead guilty to a DV charge only to have it come back years later and bit them in the ass. There were even quite a few Cops that had to ride a desk because this law took away their ability to own firearms needed to do their job. And what happens when the shoe is on the other foot, what about women that beat the hell out of their husbands and never get charged with DV?

I've said it before, EVERYONE should be able to own firearms, if you kill or injure someone then you go to jail for murder or assualt but to deny anyone their Firearms Rights is a load of bull and you know it won't stop until we're all "criminals" and get our Rights taken away.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:46:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
There should be no gun laws - everybody walking the street should have the right to carry a gun.


Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:47:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:48:15 PM EST
I love how the 94 crime bill made the loss of gun rights retroactive. Everyone who plead down to domestic violence before '94 to avoid a more serious charge now lost their rights. BS.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:48:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
Only Cyanide could write a poll that adds up to 150%.

?

NOT MY FAULT
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:49:05 PM EST
One does not have to be convicted of anything in Mich. to lose their guns and civil rights. If the wife/ex files a Personal Protection Order against hubby, whether he has done anything or not, he loses!

It may or may not get sorted out later, but in the meantime, you are screwed. That goes for cops and military also.

Wifey gets to make the accusation, without proof beyond any reasonable doubt and Judges seldom refuse to sign one, because in the off chance something happens his/her robes get shitstained.All the "victim" has to say is that she fears for her safety.

So much for due process!

Now, on the other hand, there are a great many scumbag bugs walking around that deserve much worse than the above for the terrible beatings/assaults they have commited on their women/wives/girlfriends. That cycle is almost impossible to break/fix, except by a bullet to the head, or a long prison sentence.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:52:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:53:20 PM EST by Palo_Duro]

Originally Posted By 1911lover:
Now, on the other hand, there are a great many scumbag bugs walking around that deserve much worse than the above for the terrible beatings/assaults they have commited on their women/wives/girlfriends. That cycle is almost impossible to break/fix, except by a bullet to the head, or a long prison sentence.



+1

EVERYBODY should have a gun. If somebody is too dangerous then lock them up or kill them.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:53:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 3:04:28 PM EST by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By cyanide:
It has been many years and the Domestic Violence prohibition --

The law that says that if you were ever convicted of DV you are not allowed to own a firearm.

Do you think this is a "just" law or just a partial gun grab by the anti's ?


I have know a few guys "unjustly" charged by their wives -- just before divorce and have seen many screwed by this bizarre law ???


What are your feelings on it ?



It's a gun grab. DV laws are way over enforced. True domestic violence is a horrible thing, but the reality of the situtation is an Assault & Battery is an Assault & Battery. People should not be punished more severly becuase they assaulted their girlfriend, life partner, or husband instead of their neighbor, brother or best friend.

In my state we have misdemeanor and felony spousal assult. ANY visable injury to include redness makes it as felony with a $50,000.00 bail. an emergency protective order is issued and the "suspect" cant go back to his/her house.

For a while we were making things better. When we would go to DV calls there was usaully PC to arrest both people. It really cut down on repeat cases. The DA didnt like it and changed the law. we were supposed to arrest the "primary" aggressor. well lots of people read primary as "first" so if your wife shoved you, and you knocked her out, she went to jail as primary aggressor. DA didnt like that, so he changed the law to "dominant aggressor." problem with that is wifey attacks you, you defend yourself, but if you're stronger than wifey, and a better fighter, you go to jail as the "dominant agressor." Kinda violates a basic tenant of self defense that used to be "It's not a crime to be a better fighter than your attacker."

I have seen plenty of false accusations of domestic violaence. even when the charges appear false, the police will generally arrest anyway. That's in response to the battered womens shelters who file complaints against cops who dont arrest "batterers". I have had women tell me "I already called the Nicole Brown Simpson foundation and they said you have to arrest her."

When I respond to domestic violence calls i do the following. I try to keep an open mind. I try to determine which party is more credible, and weigh the statements with that in mind. If there are no injuries i try not to arrest anyone, and instead just "go paper", providing one of the involved parties can and will leave for the night. I dont ask about firearms, becuase I am required to collect firearms at the scene of DV for 72-Hrs. What i dont ask saves me a ton of paperwork and saves your collection. I dont PUSH restraining orders. I'm required to offer them, but i want people to be able to go home and get their stuff, or see their kids. I'm not going to try to talk anyone into an RO. If there are real injuries, someone is going to jail for the felony section. If both people are drunk, angry, uncooperative i WILL find any possible reason to take them both to jail. a lot of times people that invite the police into their lives, have warrants or drug habits. Act like a bitch and i'll take your husband to jail for DV and you to jail for the crank you left in plain veiw on the table. Remember, you invited me into your life.

What I do in my personal life to protect myself from false DV charges; I will not argue with a woman, period. She gets pissy, i go to a movie. we will talk when you calm down. Stop sleeping with women before you break up with them, no last grudge fucks, no booty calls, no sympathy fucks. always dump her in a public place. Once you dump her, do not go to her place, or sleep with her again, for any reason, it's possibly a set up.

Call me paranoid, i have seen lots of lives ruined by the over enforcement of DV laws.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:53:34 PM EST
I have seen total bullshit cases where guys get this "domestic violence" thing hung over their head when they did nothing deserving of it. So I can't say I support such a law.

OTOH, if a guy has done enough to a woman to deserve having his guns taken, he should be sitting in jail where a gun isn't going to him any good and anyone else any harm. Otherwise, if you aren't going to really punish him, then leave him the hell alone.

Nearly every couple has fights and arguments. Most don't reach the level that would warrant stripping them of their gun rights. For those who really cross the line, send his ass to prison. We all know telling someone they can't have a gun isn't going to stop them anyway if they really want one or intend to do harm. So the only guys it effects are the ones who really aren't that bad to begin with.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:57:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By shotar:
Only Cyanide could write a poll that adds up to 150%.

?

NOT MY FAULT



He's just busting your balls.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:00:10 PM EST
"Wife beaters"

How about we not gloss over the fact that just as many women commit domestic violence against men, the only difference being far less men report it and the assault usually isn't as severe because of the strength differential.

So knowing this, should we ban a woman from being allowed to own a gun because she shoved and slapped her husband during an argument? If you say no, then you're a hypocrite and no better than a liberal.

I believe that this law is, as stated, incremental gun grabbing. It does indeed cast a very wide net.

By the way, just because you hit a woman, and by hit I don't mean beating within an inch of her life - I mean just striking her, how is that so unacceptable but getting in a bar fight isn't a real problem and not worthy of losing your right to own a gun forever?

I think a lot of you are hypocrites. You are opposed to "hate crime laws" and speak of women being more equal than men, yet don't address their committing domestic violence, and somehow suggest that it's men who are always the violent animals and that if they ever touch a woman they must lose their rights.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:02:44 PM EST
Men or women should be treated the same if a law is broken. Self defense not included.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:04:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:06:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
.



That's a pretty popular theme. Its absolutely insane.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:07:29 PM EST
Good law, but completely abused by women. Needs an appeal / individual reveal process.

And for all you sadasses that are voting for 'just a little' domestic violence - GFY. I ever see you smack a woman in my presence, I'll beat you to the ground.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:09:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:10:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 3:13:04 PM EST by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
the week before bulletfest a friend's wife says she is leaving him..

"good fucking riddance", he tells her.

.



This is a common story. Guys, if you are going through a divorce, hide the gun collection! Her attorny will apply for an RO, even if he knows it's unfounded. it's just one way of softening you up for the trial/settlement.


I'm sure Eric (the divorce attorny) Hun could offer some insight in this thread.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:10:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
the week before bulletfest a friend's wife says she is leaving him..

"good fucking riddance", he tells her.

she goes down to the cop shop and claims he beat her up.

cops say, "show us the bruises and blood".

she has none, of course, because my friend never touched her.

next day, she goes back to the cop shop covered in bruises...that she inflicted on herself and blamed her husband ffor. yes, the gal is mental.

cops stop by to kick hubby out of his $300,000 home and, oh by the way...we are taking all those guns your wife told us about.

the cops hauled away over $200,000 worth of machineguns and collector grade firearms. piled on top of each other like cord wood in the back of a van.



so far, the lawyers have cost my friend nearly $30k.

he still can't get in his house.

he still has no firearms.

it will be a long time before he can afford to buy himself a good steak dinner.




Your friend's dilemma is 100% the result of pussy whipped spine less "men" who have caved in to the leftist feminist crowd and allowed these laws to pass and be enforced. These are the same "men" who say "it's never ok to hit a woman" but stay silent when they see a woman slap her boyfriend/husband. Hopefully one day men will get their balls back and stand up to this assault on them for no other reason than because they are not women.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:11:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:
Good law, but completely abused by women. Needs an appeal / individual reveal process.

And for all you sadasses that are voting for 'just a little' domestic violence - GFY. I ever see you smack a woman in my presence, I'll beat you to the ground.






But it's ok if she smacks the man, right? No problem there.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:14:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
There should be no gun laws - everybody walking the street should have the right to carry a gun.




+1

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:14:25 PM EST
Bad law.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:14:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_G:

Originally Posted By rayra:
Good law, but completely abused by women. Needs an appeal / individual reveal process.

And for all you sadasses that are voting for 'just a little' domestic violence - GFY. I ever see you smack a woman in my presence, I'll beat you to the ground.






But it's ok if she smacks the man, right? No problem there.



No its not ok if she hits the man, it is wrong for the man to hit her back. Turn around and leave.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:18:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
the week before bulletfest a friend's wife says she is leaving him..

"good fucking riddance", he tells her.

she goes down to the cop shop and claims he beat her up.

cops say, "show us the bruises and blood".

she has none, of course, because my friend never touched her.

next day, she goes back to the cop shop covered in bruises...that she inflicted on herself and blamed her husband ffor. yes, the gal is mental.

cops stop by to kick hubby out of his $300,000 home and, oh by the way...we are taking all those guns your wife told us about.

the cops hauled away over $200,000 worth of machineguns and collector grade firearms. piled on top of each other like cord wood in the back of a van.



so far, the lawyers have cost my friend nearly $30k.

he still can't get in his house.

he still has no firearms.

it will be a long time before he can afford to buy himself a good steak dinner.



I wonder if her taking a lie detector test would fix that?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:21:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By A_G:

Originally Posted By rayra:
Good law, but completely abused by women. Needs an appeal / individual reveal process.

And for all you sadasses that are voting for 'just a little' domestic violence - GFY. I ever see you smack a woman in my presence, I'll beat you to the ground.






But it's ok if she smacks the man, right? No problem there.



No its not ok if she hits the man, it is wrong for the man to hit her back. Turn around and leave.



We all have a right to self defense. Gender should not play into that.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:24:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By A_G:

Originally Posted By rayra:
Good law, but completely abused by women. Needs an appeal / individual reveal process.

And for all you sadasses that are voting for 'just a little' domestic violence - GFY. I ever see you smack a woman in my presence, I'll beat you to the ground.






But it's ok if she smacks the man, right? No problem there.



No its not ok if she hits the man, it is wrong for the man to hit her back. Turn around and leave.




Ah yes, so when a woman assaults a man, he should not defend himself but rather run away and cower because society tells us women are weak and frail. Funny how society also tells us women are equal to men and they are now fire fighters, cops, in the military, coal miners, etc.

If a woman hits me with the intent to do me harm, I will respond with equal force to defend myself. If any sanctimonious guy gets in the way, he will receive the same amount of force and violence that he directed at me.

Women want it both ways, and men are more than happy to give it to them. THIS is why we have these laws and horror stories. Either they are weak, frail, protected and as such they do not share the same "luxuries" as men (i.e. they don't get to be fire men, cops, in the military, etc.) or they are equal and we abolish all these anti male laws and throw this chivalry shit out the window for good.

I won't hold my breath though.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:44:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:49:12 PM EST
OK call me old fashioned, I won't hit a woman no matter what. I don't care what society thinks, women are the weaker sex and should be treated as such. Women have gotten stronger to some degree because men have gotten weaker. I say it again, Real men don't hit women. Flame on, I'm not going to change my morals.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:50:30 PM EST
I am disgusted by any man that strikes a woman .... but I am just as disgusted by a woman that falsly accuses a man of such ... it happens ALOT ! It is way to easy for them to get away with it.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:51:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By ovrtym:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:



I wonder if her taking a lie detector test would fix that?



That's a popular response as well. The acussed willfully take polygraphs and the acussers put on an act. I've yet to hear a case where an acusser has taken a polygraph. This is BS.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:53:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 3:53:41 PM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
OK call me old fashioned, I won't hit a woman no matter what. I don't care what society thinks, women are the weaker sex and should be treated as such. Women have gotten stronger to some degree because men have gotten weaker. I say it again, Real men don't hit women. Flame on, I'm not going to change my morals.



I agree with you 100 percent

Every rules has an exception, and although I can not think of one right off I'm sure it exists for this one also.
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