Ok, I'm nervous that the AWB will be extended.  What is your opinion?  I would like to think that the AWB will expire on Sept. 13th but I dont want to get overly otimistic about it.  If the AWB does expire I think it won't be long to a more restrictive ban is enacted.  

I have a big fear that most Americans are so unaware of what really is happening in the world and and in our Country they believe the lies of the liberal media and the Democrats.  I truely feel that if Kerry is elected as our next President it will be the end of this once great Country.  Kerry is a dangerous person to have in office, I don't think he can make the decisions that need to be made and I think he is a dishonest individual who lacks values and morals.  I think that under Kerry our Rights will decay further and faster than any other time in history.  After four years of Kerry there won't be much of a chance for this Country to survive.

What is your opinion??

I've got a good feeling that the AWB will sunset as planned. I do think that the Dems and Rinos will *TRY* to get another one in place. But, after more than 10 years of the Anti's spoon feeding America gun ban bullshit coaxing the masses into thinking these laws will make people safer combined with the fact that in the last 10 years, we're no safer now, MOST Americans have wised up since then. With ALL of the media hype both pro and con, it's clear that the 2nd amendment is a HOT ISSUE for MOST and that issue is not likely to go away.

Americans have been what is in essence held hostage in our freedoms already, a sting many will not soon forget. My take on the AWB is that it will be treated much like prohibition was when it died and Americans raised a glass and had a refreshing drink of 1. freedom 2. hootch.

By no means relax, this isn't the only fight left us against the RTKBA, in fact, it's a great time to step up the fight. This will be a huge victory for us and I believe that we can and will continue the fight, this time, with a win and a smile under our belts. Dems and Rinos should see RTKBA Americans for what we are, 10 year seasoned veterans of a civil war of law.

As I understand it, today is really the last chance for them to get it extended.  The regular Congress session is pretty much over after today.  I believe they meet one more time in early Sept. but there is pretty much no way they can get it passed in just a day or two.  Say goodbye to neutered mags and say hello to all the "evil" features that were banned and to standard capacity magazines.  Hopefully, people will not still try to price gouge on legal magazines even though there will be a great demand for them.  Today is a good day.......

Wes

I hope the AWB expires but I am also contacting my Representatives to make my voice known.

As for your fears about Kerry, I know plenty of people who would agree to your statement if you changed Kerry to Bush. I don't think our country would be ruined by either and I can't stand behind Bush 100%.

Its an issue, but not the top issue.  Kerry mentioned in his speech last night that he "helped put 100,000 more police officers on the street."  This is of course in reference to the 94 crime bill which was part of the SAW ban.  Notice that he didn't go any further than to speak about the "money" that was supposed to go towards hiring 100,000 more police officers which of course never happened.  

He failed to say that "I banned large capacity magazines and assault weapons which can accurately kill your children in shcool while being rapid fired bullet hoses from the hip."  Its a no go this year.  It will expire and we will win (sort of ).  

Now that doesn't mean that public sentiment will become anti-gun as it did in the 90s.  Look what happneed during Clinton's years to see how well the media, anti-gun groups, and sick people played the tune to the public that without more gun laws blood would flow in our streets and schools.  Most of us knew better but it was hard to argue against the mainstream media and unfortunate sheeple view that without this legislation we would all die or something.  Times have changed.  The Dems know that the NRA will fight against this, that many gun owners who don't necessarily get why we have military style firearms will understand that somehow this is bad for them.  And most of us vote so they will not want to really piss us off like they did in 94 where a lot of house and senate seats were lost to Republicans after the ban was passed.

I think their focus will move towards states and cities.  With the issue dead at the federal level they can work on a smaller scale starting with large cities and also states.

Let's hope it does die.  I have heard some rumors that the anti's are planning some sort of last second push.  

It is dead. If Bush is reelected and Republicans still control House, Delay will stop any attempt to renew. If the commie is elected, it will get interesting

My opinion is that we are going to be building up some nice EBR's in a little over a month from now.

Post ban barrels and fixed telestocks will be going cheap.

Telestocks, pre-ban barrels, magazines are going to have a run on them, may become scarce at times for some of them.

I'm planning on getting all 10 of my babies up to snuff before something else comes down the line.

Danny

Quoted: The AW ban simply doesn't HAVE a future. We've all but got this right restored to us.  Don't let us lose it again. CJ

CJ,
I have read many of your posts on the AWB issue and I have to say that I like the
way you think.  I agree that it is dead and I don't see it coming back.  Sept 14th
will prove you correct.

If Kerry gets in we will have to worry about losing more then our RTKBA rights.  

The AWB is DEAD.  Kewl.

Problem is the antis will start over again.   They will never stop.   And they learned something this time.  Expect MUCH worse.  Like bans on ALL semi rifles not just a cosmetic thing.  Expect bans to apply to current rifles.  Expect confiscation or registration to be part of it.

Be prepared for a much bigger more desperate fight the next time the party of Fienstien, Schumer, Kennedy and Kerry are in power.

Quoted: Expect confiscation or registration to be part of it.

Do you really think that will happen?  I mean, even with Clinton in office, they had to write the sunset clause into the 94 ban.  Confiscation is a big step, and I can guarantee that a few unfortunate flatfoots will die trying to collect guns from the "you'll have to pry them out of my cold dead hands" types.

Yes, EVEN with the Dems in control, they barely got it passed, and only by lying (in hearings) and cheating (holding the vote open for two more votes long after the clock ran out).  And only with the sunset.

Two years later the AWB came very close to being repealed.  The fact it came that far is something.

Now, 10 years later with proof that there was no effect, and even if 100% effective, would have not shown statistically (as stated by DOJ report).  

Add to that the internet is more widespread, American gun owners are more quickly informed, and it it not so nearly easy to roll over us, slip things through.  And we will not allow the news media nor our representatives get away with lying, nor supposedly pro-gun reps putting up feeble resistance.

And we are now in a state of war on our own soil.  CCW is everywhere except a few Commie state.  And they have NO chance of lying and saying CCW is dangerous to the general public, blood in the streets, shootouts over parking spaces, etc.  It has worked everywhere tried.  It has been a success.  Anti-gun politicians are being voted out of office (gov of Missouri is the latest success in this regard).  We are getting BS gun laws repealed in many jurisdictions.  And America is safer for it.  It is undeniable.  The antis don't have a leg to stand on and are on the run.  Their hypocracy is legend.

Due to terrorism, people that never would have touched a gun before are buying and learning how to shoot.  The ranges are crowded even when it is not time to sight in for deer season.

We need to stay on the offensive.  We need to press for ALL states recognizing CCW just as they do driver's licenses.  We need to make NY respect the '86 Gun Owners Protection Act.

Then we need to work for Vermont/Alaska style CCW... NO license required.

We need to make states such as IL with their FOID and local handgun bans repeal such laws, and force the 2nd Amendment down the throats of states such as NY, NJ, Maryland, and Kalifornistan, with their state AWB laws.

We need to get the "sporting purposes" BS out of the 68 GCA and 89 import ban, redefine those laws.  We need to establish in law we have the right to have weapons suitable to self defense, which includes military pattern semiautos, handguns concealed or open carry, no limit on mags, ammo or calibre.

We can have a good job for BATFE... going after terrorists.  They like to kick in doors.  Let them do it... but NOT law abiding Americans.  Let them go after these Muslim terrorists.  They should have their hands full with that.

We need to stop our government and police from lobbying for gun laws.  We don't need these asses telling us what we should be allowed to do.  Let's put some teeth in laws preventing them spending OUR money lobbying for their causes.  Let's see some some serious jail time for this.

We have come this far in the last 10-12 years, if we stay at it, in another 4 or 5 we can have real freedom and security in this country.

Now is not the time to quit.

I know one thing if confiscation takes place its a likely chance for another civil warcause i'm one that isnt giving them up willingly.

WHAT?  there was a ban?  OMG!!!!  honestly, i havent paid it any mind over the past few years, and will continue to not care about this so called ban,  wasnt an issue, wont be an issue, will never be an issue,  

on another note how many people hear have had AR's siezed by law enforcement?  do all of you guys carry around reciepts, and registration papers at all times?  do any of these have a mfg date?  its not worth the effort to enforce it,  maybe, if the police are driving through the projects and see an AK in plain sight,  theres a chance they will grab it,  but in most civilized neiborhoods, cops coud care less forthey are too busy enforcing tax collection for the local magistrait.  

hey after all a moving violation may be only a 20 dollare fine but the fines they stack on top of the tickets are nothing more the tax revenue,

lets see,  enforce the qouta,  get paid over time to show up when a ticket is disputed, or work standard shit,  fill out paper work to get everything to checked, and be concerned of a lawsuit BC the asshole cop decided to grab a weapon for no clear reason,  any time apersonal property is confinscated it becomes a major issue in the community, this is not what the local sherif and CLEO wants,  they still have to pay the bills, and dont not want to risk loosing there jobs,


well have fun sept 15

Not that it makes much difference now, but does anyone know where I can get a copy of the AWB?   Unfortunatly, I live in the Peoples Republic of MD, and our current Gov., who is a Rep. said when he was running that he was going to repleal allot of our draconian guns laws.  HA!!!! What a load of B.S. that is!!
    Here in MD even if you meet all the requirments for a CC permit, the Sec of the State Police can deny you for reason!!!  Then you have to re-apply and then maybe, juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust maybe they will grant your request.  

I have to admit to not following the AWB issue closely till quite recently because I didnt think there was much chance of us getting a win. - - With all the b.s. propoganda out there by the major media I really expected it to be extended. But now I really have a sense of hope that this darn thing may actually sunset afterall !  houghtOf course, after the presidential election the antis are gonna come back full force. - - -

Well . .  here's my 2 cents . . .

As of today there is ot enough time to get BOTH Houses to approve a renewal of the AWB.  As stated before the Justice Department report shows that the AWB has had no effect on gun related crimes.  

Election is just about 12 weeks away and NOBODY wants to "tough the thing".  Ever wonder why Kerry never really talks about the AWB ? ? ?

And . . .  check out some of the "gun supplier" sights on the net.  Have been seeing a LOTof hi-cap mags dropping in price, even though some States have their own AWB.  

Right now I would bet (but I'm not a betting man") the GW wins in November.  But if not  . . . .

still think the Senate and the House will be controlled by the Republicans.   If Kerry is in office I have a feeling that "gridlock" will be the game of the day.    Worst case would be the AWB comes back but after a several month delay -- just enough time to once again "stock up".

Like I said - - - my 2 cents . . . .

I think a lot of people don't appreciate that there has been a real change in the power structure that's been going on for a while now. The gun grabbers no longer control things, and we don' t have to live in fear of a new Federal ban every week. Way back in '94, when the Democrats still had the House, Senate, and Presidency, they just barely managed to pass the weakest, most useless gun law yet, and they needed a 10-year sunset clause to get it through. The next election, the Republicans took back the House, and we came pretty damm close to repealing the AWB. Now, we have the Senate and the Presidency too, and the AWB renewal never even came close to passing. I wouldn't worry about the time, either. If they were going to pass an AWB renewal, the would have done it months ago, at least. We did come pretty close to passing a pro-gun law, PLCA.

Most estimates are that the House is still strongly Republican and the Senate will get a slightly bigger majority next election. The only wildcard is the Presidential election. I don't really expect it to happen, but Kerry could still win. The resulting gridlock would probably put everything on hold for a while. But if Bush wins, we're in an excellent position to go on the offensive. Stop worrying about the AWB, and start thinking about what we'll try to pass next. PLCA almost passed this session, and there's a decent chance we'll get it through next time.

*For the newbies, PLCA means Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms. It's a law that protects gun manufacturers and distributor from being sued for criminals misusing their products.

Beware of the President......if Kerry........Executive Orders bypass all legislation, and are considered law.....can you say affirmative Action?

Quoted: We need to get the "sporting purposes" BS out of the 68 GCA and 89 import ban, redefine those laws.  We need to establish in law we have the right to have weapons suitable to self defense, which includes military pattern semiautos, handguns concealed or open carry, no limit on mags, ammo or calibre.

Don't forget the '86 full-auto ban.  I don't mind the paperwork, background check, and $200 that much.  It's paying $6000 for a full-auto 10/22, or $8000 for an M-16 that puts Class three waaaayyyy out of reach.

When the Ban does die, how low do you think prices will drop for pre-ban and post-ban AR's will drop?  

I won't be doing a damn thing until ATF comes out with a ruling.

What will that be??

Not the question. The question is When?I don't see ATF coming out with something on September 13 at midnight. Methinks it will be long in coming..months??? I don't know.

For now, and until the ATF comes out with something that'll protect us in court, I'm keeping what's post-ban as post-ban, for now.

CMJohnson, I've read your posts, and I know how you feel. I agree that a law that doesn't exist is un-enforceable. Yet, you'll agree the ATF has done a lot of illegal shit and had gotten away with it. Once they confiscate your guns, funny things such as semi-autos you own suddenly becoming full-auto unregistered firearms, and such. Sneaky. They will f**k you hard and dry, and though you might win, you'll be a poor, gunless bastard. To top it all off, you'll be judged by 12 shit-brained soccer moms and crunchy tree huggers from Cambridge as your jury. No, thanks.

I'm choosing to pick my fights, and this ain't one of 'em. I'll wait for the ATF ruling.

BTW-this is Post Number 223. Can't wait 'till I get to 556!

Tarfu64,  I am with you, I do not trust the ATF one bit!!! I am not going to relax until the dust finally settles, no sense getting lax and then getting dry f@#ked by the ATF!!!!  

Quoted: I won't be doing a damn thing until ATF comes out with a ruling. What will that be?? Not the question. The question is When?I don't see ATF coming out with something on September 13 at midnight. Methinks it will be long in coming..months??? I don't know. For now, and until the ATF comes out with something that'll protect us in court, I'm keeping what's post-ban as post-ban, for now. CMJohnson, I've read your posts, and I know how you feel. I agree that a law that doesn't exist is un-enforceable. Yet, you'll agree the ATF has done a lot of illegal shit and had gotten away with it. Once they confiscate your guns, funny things such as semi-autos you own suddenly becoming full-auto unregistered firearms, and such. Sneaky. They will f**k you hard and dry, and though you might win, you'll be a poor, gunless bastard. To top it all off, you'll be judged by 12 shit-brained soccer moms and crunchy tree huggers from Cambridge as your jury. No, thanks. I'm choosing to pick my fights, and this ain't one of 'em. I'll wait for the ATF ruling. BTW-this is Post Number 223. Can't wait 'till I get to 556!

If you're that scared of ATF abuses, why do you have any guns at all?

Brother Mace, I own guns BECAUSE I'm wary of the ATF.They are the reason to own guns, they are EXACTLY what the founders of this country warned us about. Am I scared of the ATF? I have no reason to be. But, having said that, I'm not stupid, either. I choose not to pick this fight until I know what their "interpretation" is going to be.

I have read enough factual accounts of ATF f***ing up raids, shooting innocent people, setting up lawful gun owners in court, etc. You heard the latest? Read a recent issue of Shotgun News about someone in this country who had a legally-owned, registered Class III firearm that the ATF said they had no record of, and warned this person to surrender the weapon immediately. The only way ATF knew they had fouled up was the person had the paperwork (luckily) to back up it's legality, signed sealed and delivered. The gun was a registered War trophy from the Korean era (I believe). This is the kind of crap that goes on with these guys. It's just the latest. We don't even hear half the stuff these out of control assholes get away with. And Congress turns a blind eye.

BTW-ATF is now under DOJ, not Treasury anymore. Just another reason to be wary, 'cause now their whole focus has changed from technically a tax-collecting arm to a law enforcement agency.

Bottom line, I'm gonna wait.

The ATF will stay within the confines of the law, when it comes to their views on a statute IMHO.  There are enough gun laws for them to enforce, the expiring of the AWB will be something they have to comment on because it will effect so many people.  It's their responsibility to let people know what their position(s) are.

Quoted: We need to stop our government and police from lobbying for gun laws.

I have to take exception with your one point here.  "Police" do not lobby for gun laws.  Police chiefs do.  They are appointed officials and are instructed to support the legislation that their bosses (elected officials and usually Democrats) want passed.  Your average police officer is AGAINST gun laws because they know that criminals are not affected by them.

Anyone have any connections with someone from ATF that could shed some light on this? I was under the impression that on 9-14, that was it and that I could go to my local gun store and order me an M-4 with no problems but this argument sounds reasnable? Has anyone spoken with any gun shop owners to see what they have to say? They must know because it's their business!

Quoted: Ok, I'm nervous that the AWB will be extended.  What is your opinion?  I would like to think that the AWB will expire on Sept. 13th but I dont want to get overly otimistic about it.  If the AWB does expire I think it won't be long to a more restrictive ban is enacted.   I have a big fear that most Americans are so unaware of what really is happening in the world and and in our Country they believe the lies of the liberal media and the Democrats.  I truely feel that if Kerry is elected as our next President it will be the end of this once great Country.  Kerry is a dangerous person to have in office, I don't think he can make the decisions that need to be made and I think he is a dishonest individual who lacks values and morals.  I think that under Kerry our Rights will decay further and faster than any other time in history.  After four years of Kerry there won't be much of a chance for this Country to survive. What is your opinion??

IF Kerry gets in, it will be renewed.

IF Bush wins, it will be gone forever and the antis will try to ban something else!

Quoted: Brother Mace, I own guns BECAUSE I'm wary of the ATF.They are the reason to own guns, they are EXACTLY what the founders of this country warned us about. Am I scared of the ATF? I have no reason to be. But, having said that, I'm not stupid, either. I choose not to pick this fight until I know what their "interpretation" is going to be. I have read enough factual accounts of ATF f***ing up raids, shooting innocent people, setting up lawful gun owners in court, etc. You heard the latest? Read a recent issue of Shotgun News about someone in this country who had a legally-owned, registered Class III firearm that the ATF said they had no record of, and warned this person to surrender the weapon immediately. The only way ATF knew they had fouled up was the person had the paperwork (luckily) to back up it's legality, signed sealed and delivered. The gun was a registered War trophy from the Korean era (I believe). This is the kind of crap that goes on with these guys. It's just the latest. We don't even hear half the stuff these out of control assholes get away with. And Congress turns a blind eye. BTW-ATF is now under DOJ, not Treasury anymore. Just another reason to be wary, 'cause now their whole focus has changed from technically a tax-collecting arm to a law enforcement agency. Bottom line, I'm gonna wait.

Do you have a letter from the ATF telling you that youy are allowed to own every gun you own ?

Where is the ATF opinion that says lever action rifles are legal, revolvers, ... hell even that beer you have in the fridge. (They do control that "A" thing too). If there is no law against it, then it's legal

Quoted: Anyone have any connections with someone from ATF that could shed some light on this? I was under the impression that on 9-14, that was it and that I could go to my local gun store and order me an M-4 with no problems but this argument sounds reasnable? Has anyone spoken with any gun shop owners to see what they have to say? They must know because it's their business!

You get the usual smattering from shop owners...

Some (incl our own SteyrAug) will have ex-LEO rifles on sale as soon as the ban is Kaput...

Others give out tinfoil hat lines about the ATF or the President arbitrarily extending it without going thru congress...

And so on...

The legal 'facts on the ground' is that the ATF will have nothing to 'rule on', and will simply make a modification to their web site removing the 'Assault Weapons' section...

They may publish some sort of letter to FFLs saying the ban's dead...

But not much more...

If Feinsteen gets her way, ALL will be banned, made illegal!

We cannot now, nor ever rest on our laurels.

We cannot believe that this issue will go away forever.

IF we lose our our senate/house majority and perhaps get Kerry/Clinton
for President, you'd better bet your ass that they'll try to make that their
#1 priority.

Remember: "Socialism cannnot thrive in the U.S. as long as we have an ARMED
middle class." -Sarah Brady

Google "Sarah Brady quote" and you'll find her quote........

Boy I can not wait to slap a bayonet lug on my wife's AR Carbine as soon as the ban dies!   Man, I know when the ban dies the amount of drive by bayonetings will skyrocket!!!!    Seriously, we can not sigh and sit back, we need to send letters of thanks/praise to all our local and State politicians who are pro-gun!!!  

I agree with you Lone Wolf. If ,and I have a feeling when Scarry Kerry get into office, he will re enact the ban and then some. So I recommend getting "things" while you can and the get'ns good.
The Liberals are coming back in this election pissed off like a pack of hungry meat bee's to road kill. So in MHO, DON'T WAIT. I hope the gun manufacturers get their preorders in  by the hundred thousands (prepaid), because they will tack on all kinds of junk to a new bill or worse an executive order by "DING DONG" himself. Remember...once they are gone, there gone.

"Boy I can not wait to slap a bayonet lug on my wife's AR Carbine as soon as the ban dies"

Uh, you do know, don't you, that even with a bayonet lug, a bayonet will not fit on a 16" carbine barrel on a standard front sight base?  Only via use of one of the bolt on bayo lugs.

----

As far as the ATF, I would think in this day and age, particularly that they are no longer tax collectors and are now real law enforcement officers, that they would have a change in attitude toward armed citizens.  I would hope they would be concentrating their efforts on REAL criminals, and especially, terrorists.  And I would hope they could tell the difference between citizens and terrorists.

Ask this question again on the 14th.  Barring some really out-of-nowhere legislative trickery, AWB is toast.

Quoted: "Boy I can not wait to slap a bayonet lug on my wife's AR Carbine as soon as the ban dies" Uh, you do know, don't you, that even with a bayonet lug, a bayonet will not fit on a 16" carbine barrel on a standard front sight base?  Only via use of one of the bolt on bayo lugs. ---- As far as the ATF, I would think in this day and age, particularly that they are no longer tax collectors and are now real law enforcement officers, that they would have a change in attitude toward armed citizens.  I would hope they would be concentrating their efforts on REAL criminals, and especially, terrorists.  And I would hope they could tell the difference between citizens and terrorists.

I was only being a smarta@#.  I never had a use for a bayonet when I was in the Service so I sure as heck won't want one now.

One other thing to consider - right now we're hearing all the antis screaming about "blood in the streets" from all the killing by assault weapons suddenly flooding the market.

When this doesn't happen, the radical antis will be severly discreditited. They're already hurting from the drop in crime in CCW states, and when there is no change whatsoever post 9/13 their credibility will be even further into the shitter. It's up to our side to hammer the rest of the nails into their coffin.


===>  (AWB expires at midnight, BTW, so actually the day of the 13th will be "post" AWB!)  <===

Oh yeah, the anti's will have serious egg on their faces, but they will find another avenue to attack us on.  

They thought it would never happen in Australia, Canada, and the UK.  But registration and confiscation DID happen.  It can happen here.  Our only hope is strength through organized numbers, and that means the NRA.  Even if you disagree with some of the NRA programs, support them for all that you are worth.

...that is, if you value your firearms.