Disclaimer: This is not an anti-war post.

Ok, so I've been thinking.

So far we've found no WMD's in Iraq, right, even though there were equipment found that would have facilitated a nuclear weaponry program?

What puzzles me is why we have found none so far, and yet intelligence sources from three countries (Russia, UK, US) have confirmed the presence of WMD's prior to the invasion.

Anyone else find this strange? Is there something the New World Order is hiding from us peasants?

They were all moved to Syria before we started bombing.


I still feel cheated though.

So there are no WMDs, lets take their oil already.

We have found some, they moved them to Syria or Iran has them.

Quoted: They were all moved to Syria before we started bombing.

I think moved to Iran.



5sub

We have the chem munitions.  The rest were moved to another Baathist State/  Syria.

Quoted: We have the chem munitions.  The rest were moved to another Baathist State/  Syria.

Any news article that would suggest this?

One of Saddam's trusted confidents (Georges Sada) revealed that they were moved to Syria as part of an aid package for an earthquake tht occurred there just before the 03 invasion of Iraq.

I let the facts speak for themselves.

Several thousand more have been found, some of it has been used in attacks on our Troops and Allies.

NME
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

29 June 2006


U.S. General Confirms Discovery of Old Chemical Weapons in Iraq


Approximately 500 artillery shells filled with mustard, sarin found since 2004


By David McKeeby
Washington File Staff Writer




Washington – Since 2004, coalition forces have found approximately 500 artillery shells in various locations across Iraq filled with chemical weapons agents, the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) told a hearing of the House Armed Services Committee June 29.


The committee hearing was prompted by a June 21 statement from U.S. Senator Rick Santorum, who released a letter from Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte, concerning declassified portions of a report from the DIA’s National Ground Intelligence Center (NGIC) regarding chemical munitions that had been recovered in Iraq since May 2004.


“We … assess that the munitions that are addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s and that they were similar to the munitions that were used during the Iran-Iraq War,” said U.S. Army Major General Michael D. Maples.  


NGIC, explained Maples, is a division of the DIA that specializes in developing intelligence about foreign militaries and has been briefing U.S. commanders in recent years about the possible risks their troops face in Iraq and Afghanistan. 


Saddam Hussein maintained stockpiles of chemical weapons, which were used in the 1980s against Iran and Iraqi citizens.  (See related article.) 


Many of these weapons were destroyed by Hussein’s regime following the 1991 Gulf War, but Maples said that international arms inspectors warned the coalition that they were likely to discover remaining chemical agents.  (See related fact sheet.)   


Recovered shells, Maples said, were filled with mustard agents, which cause severe burns and blistering, or sarin, a toxic nerve agent.  While most were degraded to the extent that they could not be fired, they remained dangerous to anyone who came into contact with them.


“[W]e … assess that the chemical munitions that have been found are hazardous, and, potentially, they could be lethal,” Maples said, recalling an incident where coalition forces in Iraq became ill while transporting captured chemical munitions.


Since the report details the potential threat of these chemical agents to coalition forces, he said, most of the report remains classified, but additional information about chemical agents found in Iraq might be made public at a later date. 


Maples said that coalition forces continue to seek out and secure remaining chemical shells. 


“[W]e believe that there are chemical munitions that continue to exist in Iraq, and we take that very seriously.  And we would like to continue to locate and dispose of those munitions,” Maples said.


Maples’ prepared remarks will be available on the House Armed Services Web site.


For more information, see Iraq Update and Arms Control and Non-Proliferation.


Santorum’s June 21 statement and the report (PDF, 3 pages) from Negroponte are available on Santorum’s Web site.


(The Washington File is a product of the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)

They had them at one time, according to the 5000 dead Kurds

Syria, Iran...Gaza, Golan, who knows? Hell...intact Migs were found buried in the desert....and that's a big-ass desert.

Its well documented about Saddam's possession and use of WMDs during the 1980's.

Remember, they have all the documentation now. They know how much was shipped to Iraq, how much as been used, and how much is unaccounted for.

They were supposed destroy ALL of them under UN supervision soon after the end of the 1st Gulf War. It was a condition of the Ceasefire agreement. They were also supposed to cease firing.

The UN inspectors kept finding stuff throughout the 1990s. Including a nuclear weapons research lab.

The UN Security council affirmed 14 times (or was it 17?), that the Saddam Regime was violating the ceasefire agreement, and wasn't destroying the WMDs as required by the cease fire agreement.

There was a chemical munitions plant found after the invasion, that has been recently cleared out, (and workers executed), its considered a hot zone.  Folks that have been there are ARFCOM members.

If he would of let us look we woud of left him the fuck alone.

Had to play guess what is in my hand while closing the other one.

You can look here but not here, Ok now you can look here but not here.

See the pic of his broken neck?

Whoa whoa Don't believe everything you hear in the media. We did find WMDs over there. I personally saw them. From what I understand there were a few thousand bio and chemical weapons found. Those aren't nukes though, they aren't as sexy so they don't get headlines. The war was sold on the idea that Iraq had WMDs and was developing nukes. The media latched on to nuclear weapon and tagged those and those alone as WMD. No nukes, no WMDs. You wouldn't believe what else we pulled out of the desert that didn't make headlines because of politics. You only thought you hated the Frech and the Ruskies.

I just don't care. WMDs stopped being a concern after a year of being Iraq. We aren't there fighting WMDs and we won't leave if we find any so whether or not they were there to begin with is a moot issue.

Quoted: I just don't care. WMDs stopped being a concern after a year of being Iraq. We aren't there fighting WMDs and we won't leave if we find any so whether or not they were there to begin with is a moot issue.

Exactly.

     Saddam has the internet, CNN, and the two US senators who told him that US would be invading soon.  I'm sure Saddam went on a clear out spree after that.  Asaad is keeping his mouth shut on this.

Your opinion of WMD's in Iraq?

"Not One has been found" - WMD,s being moved to Syria or Iran just propaganda from Fox News .

Quoted: Your opinion of WMD's in Iraq? "Not One has been found" - WMD,s being moved to Syria or Iran just propaganda from Fox News .

That is 100% wrong… but you will not let that get in your way.

They have found hundreds if you had read the thread you would know that.

In reality, isn't every insurgant a weapon of mass distruction. Those suicide
bombs aren't designed to kill just one person. JMO

Quoted: They had them at one time, according to the 5000 dead Kurds

From what little I know of that, we supplied those chemical weapons.

I think we're being fed a line of **** on "WMDs are the reason the U.S. had to go over there".

Quoted: We have found some, they moved them to Syria or Iran has them.

I agree

HH

Quoted: Quoted: They had them at one time, according to the 5000 dead Kurds From what little I know of that, we supplied those chemical weapons. I think we're being fed a line of **** on "WMDs are the reason the U.S. had to go over there".

Bullshit

You just proved you know less than little.

The US NEVER supplied Iraq with a single chemical weapon… none, zero, zip.

Why do people keep repeating these bad stupid lies.

Quoted: From what little I know of that, we supplied those chemical weapons.

Wrong. Iraq made their own sarin.

They imported all manner of industrial chemicals and gear to facilitate this, but nobody sold them chemical weapons.

Most of the dual use stuff they did buy was from Western Europe.

What they got from the US was anthrax from a university veterinary program. They used this as a base to make their own, but it was never used against anyone.

UNSCOM cataloged thousands of liters of anthrax in Iraqi posession, but Iraq claimed to have destroyed that after they threw the inspectors out.



^ from the New York Times, iirc.

Quoted: From what little I know of that, we supplied those chemical weapons.

Prove it.

Remember the first Gulf War when all those MIG-29s escaped to Iran?

The Iraqi Military knew what was coming and that their leader soon wouldn't have the ability to punish them let alone even know anything that was going on so a lot of people probably sold everything, but the kitchen sinks or gave them to other like Syria and Iran in exchange for allowing them to escape to those nations.

Found some.

Quoted: I let the facts speak for themselves. Several thousand more have been found, some of it has been used in attacks on our Troops and Allies. NME

Yep, and stories of the recovery of Sarin were present during the early days.

To bad people keep spouting that "There was no WMDs in Iraq" crap. I guess if it isn't a nuke, it's not a WMD.

I suspect there were some even more nasty weapons that were smuggled out before our guys could sieze it, or for that matter even proved it existed.

As more and more Iraqis join the effort, it's only a matter of time before the truth comes out.

my opinion of WMDs in iraq?



we should use them.


(oh wait, what?)

Quoted: So far we've found no WMD's in Iraq, right [snip] ?

Incorrect.  WMDs have been found and reported in publically available sources since almost the beginning of the invasion.

Talk to a few dragon soldiers sometime and ask what's really going on over there. They'll tell you a lot that doesnt make the news, both because leadership squashes the stories and because the news media is only looking for nukes.

Kharn

Quoted: They were all moved to Syria before we started bombing.

+1 Pre-invasion intel showed convoys moving from Iraq in to Syria.

Quoted: of course they had it. We supplied them during the 80s to use it against our nemesis, Iranians.

Wrong.

Quoted: I just don't care. WMDs stopped being a concern after a year of being Iraq. We aren't there fighting WMDs and we won't leave if we find any so whether or not they were there to begin with is a moot issue.

BULL!!

The liberal press and anti-war crowd made a HUGE issue of this! "Bush lied, people died".

WMDs existed, and Saddam was known to use chemical ones on his own people. The question is "What happened to the programs?"

Possibilities:

1) Saddam dismantled them and didn't bother proving this to the UN (to save his regime).
2) They were transferred to Syria/Iran.

I vote for #2.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Many of the posters here just keep parroting the same lies and deceit over and over. News Flash folks! We recovered WMDs! If mustard gas and Sarin aren't WMDs, WTF is? . . . Those barrels of old shit was not what the Bush administration was talking about when they said Iraq was producing WMD. The fact that the Bush administration doesn't claim these "discoveries" as proof of WMD should tell you you're offering evidence that proves nothing. Read the Duelfer Report, the final, definitive statement on WMD in Iraq. Bottom line: nada, zip, zilch, nothing . . . A few rusty drums of 15-year-old mustard gas is NOT the reason we were told we were going to war and they sure has hell don't justify more than 3,000 American lives and untold injuries. So you admit Mustard gas is a WMD.

No, I don't "admit" anything. Neither the Duefler report, nor the Bush White House, claimed that 20-year-old mustard gas was the WMD we were looking for. Is George Bush a libtard, too? If he's not willing to hold rusty drums up as proof of WMD, why are you?

But you are quick to label Bush as the source of the bad intelligence.

When did I say anything about Bush being a "source" of bad intelligence? The only source I named by name is Ahmed Chalabi.

Remember reading about the mobile Bio/Chem factories that were disguised as commercial trucks?

Yes, I have read about how people who actually saw them said they couldn't possibly be used as weapons labs.

As already mentioned, there is proof that a massive amount of vehicles fitting this description leaving Iraq and moving into Syria and Iran.

Gosh, I'd sure like to see that. You got links to satellite images?
BTW, when did Saddam's Iraq and Iran become allies?

The most retarded aspect about this WMD issue is that the leftists are using as a lame excuse to get out. Even if it were true, "That there was no WMDs", that is still a very week arguement to leave Iraq, it's time to finish what we started. We CAN not tire, we CAN not falter, and we CAN not fail

I'll admit we're in a hellavu pickle and getting out is going to be a mess. But I don't place the blame for that on the people who want to get out. I blame those that got us there in the first place.

That being said, the no WMD reason for getting out just may not be the MOST retarded aspect of the WMD issue . . .

Quoted: Quoted: ETA: The report relied on a lot more than digging holes in the desert to find the WMD's.  They analyzed Iraq's finances and international trade records to look if any WMD-related activity occurred; not surprisingly, there was none. Oh that's right because if you were going to move illegal chemical or biological weapons you would probably leave a fucking paper trail....   What is your account name over at DU?

I don't have an account at DU but I imagine you don't get into the real world much.  EVERYTHING leaves a paper trail, especially when money needs to move across borders.  The paper trail was examined on the Iraqi end, where all the records were kept, and there was no evidence.  Try reading the report next time before commenting.

We gave Saddam chemical weapons. He even used them on his own people. What ever chemical weapons he had, he probably smuggled them into another country. My opinion is, what ever he had, it's sitting in Syria in the Becca valley.

Quoted: Quoted: We have found some, they moved them to Syria or Iran has them. So Saddam was in full compliance of getting rid of them per UN resolutions ! This whole thing is the biggest clusterfuck I have ever seen in my life.

Not quite. He waited until the last possible minute before the US went over the border to send them to Syria. And then he didn't tell anyone.

edited...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/26/jordan.terror/2004 Jordan says major al Qaeda plot disrupted

This is what the article left out:

Larry Elder: Jordan recently seized 20 tons of chemicals trucked in by confessed al Qaeda members who brought the stuff in from Syria. The chemicals included VX, Sarin and 70 others. But the media seems curiously incurious about whether one could reasonably trace this stuff back to Iraq. Had the terrorists released a "toxic cloud," Jordanian officials say 80,000 would have died! So, I interviewed terrorism expert John Loftus, who once held some of the highest security clearances in the world. Loftus, a former Army officer, served as a Justice Department prosecutor. He investigated CIA cases of Nazi war criminals for the U.S. attorney general. Author of several books, Loftus once received a Pulitzer Prize nomination. John Loftus: There's a lot of reason to think (the source of the chemicals) might be Iraq. We captured Iraqi members of al Qaeda, who've been trained in Iraq, planned for the mission in Iraq, and now they're in Jordan with nerve gas. That's not the kind of thing you buy in a grocery store. You have to have obtained it from someplace. Larry Elder: They couldn't have obtained it from Syria? Loftus: Syria does have the ability to produce certain kinds of nerve gasses, but in small quantities. The large stockpiles were known to be in Iraq. The best U.S. and allied intelligence say that in the 10 weeks before the Iraq war, Saddam's Russian adviser told him to get rid of all the nerve gas. It would be useless against U.S. troops; the rubber suits were immune to it. So they shipped it across the border to Syria and Lebanon and buried it. Now, in the last few weeks, there's a controversy that Syria has been trying to get rid of this stuff. They're selling it to al Qaeda is one supposition. We know the Sudanese government demanded that the Syrian government empty its warehouse in Khartoum where they've been hiding illegal missiles along with components of weapons of mass destruction. But there's no doubt these guys confessed on Jordanian television that they received the training for this mission in Iraq. . . . And from the description it appears this is the form of nerve gas known as VX. It's very rare, and very tough to manufacture . . . one of the most destructive chemical mass-production weapons that you can use. . . . They wanted to build three clouds, a mile across, of toxic gas. A whole witch's brew of nasty chemicals that were going to go into this poison cloud, and this would have gone over shopping malls, hospitals . . . Elder: You said that the Russians told Saddam, "There is going to be an invasion. Get rid of your chemical and biological weapons."

Quoted: I just don't care. WMDs stopped being a concern after a year of being Iraq. We aren't there fighting WMDs and we won't leave if we find any so whether or not they were there to begin with is a moot issue.

You can setup a make-shift chemical weapons lab with about $500 and your average Home Depot. The insurgents lack of success isnt for not trying, they just cant figure out how to employ them correctly.

Kharn

Quoted: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/26/jordan.terror/2004 Jordan says major al Qaeda plot disrupted This is what the article left out: Larry Elder: Jordan recently seized 20 tons of chemicals trucked in by confessed al Qaeda members who brought the stuff in from Syria. The chemicals included VX, Sarin and 70 others. But the media seems curiously incurious about whether one could reasonably trace this stuff back to Iraq. Had the terrorists released a "toxic cloud," Jordanian officials say 80,000 would have died! So, I interviewed terrorism expert John Loftus, who once held some of the highest security clearances in the world. Loftus, a former Army officer, served as a Justice Department prosecutor. He investigated CIA cases of Nazi war criminals for the U.S. attorney general. Author of several books, Loftus once received a Pulitzer Prize nomination. John Loftus: There's a lot of reason to think (the source of the chemicals) might be Iraq. We captured Iraqi members of al Qaeda, who've been trained in Iraq, planned for the mission in Iraq, and now they're in Jordan with nerve gas. That's not the kind of thing you buy in a grocery store. You have to have obtained it from someplace. Larry Elder: They couldn't have obtained it from Syria? Loftus: Syria does have the ability to produce certain kinds of nerve gasses, but in small quantities. The large stockpiles were known to be in Iraq. The best U.S. and allied intelligence say that in the 10 weeks before the Iraq war, Saddam's Russian adviser told him to get rid of all the nerve gas. It would be useless against U.S. troops; the rubber suits were immune to it. So they shipped it across the border to Syria and Lebanon and buried it. Now, in the last few weeks, there's a controversy that Syria has been trying to get rid of this stuff. They're selling it to al Qaeda is one supposition. We know the Sudanese government demanded that the Syrian government empty its warehouse in Khartoum where they've been hiding illegal missiles along with components of weapons of mass destruction. But there's no doubt these guys confessed on Jordanian television that they received the training for this mission in Iraq. . . . And from the description it appears this is the form of nerve gas known as VX. It's very rare, and very tough to manufacture . . . one of the most destructive chemical mass-production weapons that you can use. . . . They wanted to build three clouds, a mile across, of toxic gas. A whole witch's brew of nasty chemicals that were going to go into this poison cloud, and this would have gone over shopping malls, hospitals . . . Elder: You said that the Russians told Saddam, "There is going to be an invasion. Get rid of your chemical and biological weapons."

You really need to stop bringing facts in to the discussion...

The DU posters wont know what to reply with...  

In Syria.

Buried in the desert.

Take your pick.

Quoted: In Syria. Buried in the desert. Take your pick.

In the ARFCOM tradition I'll pick BOTH.

Quoted: So WTF was the whole 'Oil for food' fiasco about? Remember that? Annon's son was involved, and it included illegal componets that allowed Saddam to get things other than food, like chemical warfare componets from Germany and France. Or did you forget about that?

You guys just make this shit up as you go along, don't you?

Wiki: Oil for food program

There was never any suggestion that the oil for food program allowed Iraq to buy chemical warfare components. It was strictly a financial thing: plain old fashioned kick-backs and corruption. It's true that the Duefler Report stated that such money COULD have been used to fund weapons programs, but that same report ruled definitely that Saddam had not restarted his nuclear, biological or chemical weapons programs.

The scheme is alleged to have worked thusly: individuals and organizations sympathetic to the Iraqi regime, or those just easily bribed, were offered oil contracts through the Oil-for-Food Programme. These contracts for Iraqi oil could then be sold on the open world market and the seller was allowed to keep a transaction fee, said to be between $0.15 and $0.50/barrel (0.94 and 3.14 $/m³) of oil sold. The seller was then to refund the Iraqi government a certain percentage of the commission. Contracts to sell Iraq humanitarian goods through the Oil-for-Food Programme were given to companies and individuals based on their willingness to kick back a certain percentage of the contract profits to the Iraqi regime. Companies that sold commodities via the Oil-for-Food Programme were overcharging by up to 10%, with part of the overcharged amount being diverted into private bank accounts for Saddam Hussein and other regime officials and the other part being kept by the supplier. The involvement of the UN itself in the scandal began in February 2004 after the name of Benon Sevan, executive director of the Oil-for-Food Programme, appeared on the Iraqi Oil Ministry's documents. Sevan allegedly was given vouchers for at least 11,000,000 barrels (1,700,000 m³) of oil, worth some $3.5 million. Sevan has denied the charges.

Quoted: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/26/jordan.terror/2004 Jordan says major al Qaeda plot disrupted This is what the article left out: Larry Elder: Jordan recently seized 20 tons of chemicals trucked in by confessed al Qaeda members who brought the stuff in from Syria. The chemicals included VX, Sarin and 70 others. But the media seems curiously incurious about whether one could reasonably trace this stuff back to Iraq. Had the terrorists released a "toxic cloud," Jordanian officials say 80,000 would have died! So, I interviewed terrorism expert John Loftus, who once held some of the highest security clearances in the world. Loftus, a former Army officer, served as a Justice Department prosecutor. He investigated CIA cases of Nazi war criminals for the U.S. attorney general. Author of several books, Loftus once received a Pulitzer Prize nomination. John Loftus: There's a lot of reason to think (the source of the chemicals) might be Iraq. We captured Iraqi members of al Qaeda, who've been trained in Iraq, planned for the mission in Iraq, and now they're in Jordan with nerve gas. That's not the kind of thing you buy in a grocery store. You have to have obtained it from someplace. Larry Elder: They couldn't have obtained it from Syria? Loftus: Syria does have the ability to produce certain kinds of nerve gasses, but in small quantities. The large stockpiles were known to be in Iraq. The best U.S. and allied intelligence say that in the 10 weeks before the Iraq war, Saddam's Russian adviser told him to get rid of all the nerve gas. It would be useless against U.S. troops; the rubber suits were immune to it. So they shipped it across the border to Syria and Lebanon and buried it. Now, in the last few weeks, there's a controversy that Syria has been trying to get rid of this stuff. They're selling it to al Qaeda is one supposition. We know the Sudanese government demanded that the Syrian government empty its warehouse in Khartoum where they've been hiding illegal missiles along with components of weapons of mass destruction. But there's no doubt these guys confessed on Jordanian television that they received the training for this mission in Iraq. . . . And from the description it appears this is the form of nerve gas known as VX. It's very rare, and very tough to manufacture . . . one of the most destructive chemical mass-production weapons that you can use. . . . They wanted to build three clouds, a mile across, of toxic gas. A whole witch's brew of nasty chemicals that were going to go into this poison cloud, and this would have gone over shopping malls, hospitals . . . Elder: You said that the Russians told Saddam, "There is going to be an invasion. Get rid of your chemical and biological weapons."

Good link.

Why nobody but a few guys on the Internet can put 1+1 together and get 2 is beyond me.

Dear .gov types: Follow up on this stuff and then PUBLISH IT, I don't give a damn WHO it implicates in the international community. The US has a LOT of unnecessary egg on our face due to our tight lips.

Quoted: WMDs existed, and Saddam was known to use chemical ones on his own people. The question is "What happened to the programs?"

Yeah, at the time of the FIRST Gulf War. But those weren't the weapons we invaded over the second time.

Possibilities: 1) Saddam dismantled them and didn't bother proving this to the UN (to save his regime). 2) They were transferred to Syria/Iran. I vote for #2.

The first possibility makes more sense. It was in Saddam's interest for his own people and his neighbors to think he had WMD. The second possibility makes NO sense in regards to Iran. If you haven't noticed, Iran is the country that's gained the most by this fiasco . . .

They don't have any WMD's?  Well, we should send them some.

Quoted: Ya I'll send one of my guys down the river...   Like I said I don't get my info from CNN... My buddies work at Ft. Meade.

Oh yeah? Well, my second cousin knew a guy who once dated Saddam's nephew's third wife and he says the whole thing was a put-up on the part of Iran . . .

Quoted: Quoted: We have found some, they moved them to Syria or Iran has them. So Saddam was in full compliance of getting rid of them per UN resolutions ! This whole thing is the biggest clusterfuck I have ever seen in my life.

Not quite sure of the direction of your comment, but bringing up UN resolutions at this point isn't too bright. If I've read into your comment wrong....my apologies.

Meh, I never really cared about WMDs.

Saddam was NOT in full compliance

He was denying UN inspectors access to his WMD sites left and right. I read a report years ago about from one of the inspectors (the actual inspectors, not the higher-ups with the agendas) who said that they were often delayed from getting in for their surprise inspections, then when they finally were allowed in the front, they could hear large truck engines running out the back...

The head inspectors had too much pride to admit they got jobbed so they just said ¯\(º_o)/¯ i dunno lol...