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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 12/28/2003 11:04:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 11:34:48 AM EST by cyanide]
Poll coming in regards to the Iran earthquake post by BlackDog714

Also this is not a clone topic, as I am not discussing the earthquake and the deaths, but rather list of responces for the event.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:16:20 AM EST
I work with a someone from the Phillipines and someone from Iran.  The guy from the Phillipines told the girl from Iran God was punishing the sinners.  I had to pretend I didn't hear it, but I was snickering that a foreigner would think that way.

I don't think God punishes that way, BTW.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:22:06 AM EST
I find it strange that many here, belive in god and the Bible, but do not belive in a Sodom and Gomorra type of retribution.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:22:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 11:49:16 AM EST by sharky30]
I voted
could care less, we have many problems here in the USA that need funding to help out our own people
View Quote

but it would be more accurate if "could care less," was replaced with "it's a tragedy but,"
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:23:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By cyanide:
I find it strange that many here, belive in god and the Bible, but do not belive in a Sodom and Gomorra type of retribution.
View Quote

I'm thinkin great flood type vengance
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:26:14 AM EST
Keep the money at home.....
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:26:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By sharky30:
I voted
could care less, we have many problems here in the USA that need funding to help out our own people
View Quote

but it would be more accurate if "could care less," was replaced with "it's a tradegy but,"
View Quote
Sorry locked out of the poll, but feel free to adapt your responce as you feel it needs to be changed.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:28:48 AM EST
An option needs to be added:

Some people will be consumed by their hatred.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:28:55 AM EST
While it is tragic, sending help is fine but what do they need OUR money for that we don't need right here?
Allah seems weak...send money?
I suppose some would think there are just less muslims that hate us now, perhaps rightly so.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:30:35 AM EST
Arab:  "God willing....."
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:32:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 11:34:35 AM EST by cyanide]
Early on in this thread I would ask, respond to an opinion, but please do not berate an individual for one he holds. This is America, and your allowed to have one even if others do not see it your way.

Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:33:42 AM EST
<>

Oh well...[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:35:04 AM EST
Keep our money here. We have people who need it also. The muslim nations need to step up and take care of their own.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:36:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By cyanide:
I find it strange that many here, belive in god and the Bible, but do not belive in a Sodom and Gomorra type of retribution.
View Quote


In a religious context, "good" is a relative term.  The Bible teaches that "there is none righteous, no, not one" and "there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Romans 3:10 and 3:12, respectively)

See also Matthew 5:45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

The Bible is 2 parts for a reason. S&G destruction was Old Testament, the 2 above are New Testament. There is a huge difference. Law, Blood.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:40:47 AM EST
If they are cold at night let them burn American flags to warm themselves by. If they are hungry send them some pork rinds. If they need shelter, let them re-occupy the American Embassy. Otherwise, Allah will provide.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:44:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By CavVet:
Originally Posted By cyanide:
I find it strange that many here, belive in god and the Bible, but do not belive in a Sodom and Gomorra type of retribution.
View Quote


[red]In a religious context, "good" is a relative term.[/red]  The Bible teaches that "there is none righteous, no, not one" and "there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Romans 3:10 and 3:12, respectively)

See also Matthew 5:45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

The Bible is 2 parts for a reason. S&G destruction was Old Testament, the 2 above are New Testament. There is a huge difference. Law, Blood.
View Quote


Good is always a relative term in many fashions. As for the bible interpretations, I have to defer to those that have read it more than me,and have a better comprehension  of it, although I have read it more than once, along with the Koran, which I might add seems full of invectives against anyone that is not of a  Muslim faith.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:45:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By cyanide:
I find it strange that many here, belive in god and the Bible, but do not belive in a Sodom and Gomorra type of retribution.
View Quote


I find it strange that many people here like to voice their opinions about God and the Bible without knowing much about either...
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:48:11 AM EST
can't have every option covered [;)]

Originally Posted By cyanide:
Originally Posted By sharky30:
I voted
could care less, we have many problems here in the USA that need funding to help out our own people
View Quote

but it would be more accurate if "could care less," was replaced with "it's a tragedy but,"
View Quote
Sorry locked out of the poll, but feel free to adapt your responce as you feel it needs to be changed.
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:50:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By SNorman:
Originally Posted By cyanide:
I find it strange that many here, belive in god and the Bible, but do not belive in a Sodom and Gomorra type of retribution.
View Quote


I find it strange that many people here like to voice their opinions about God and the Bible without knowing much about either...
View Quote


And if one does not talk about it, how would one learn more about it ?
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:01:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By cyanide:
Originally Posted By SNorman:
Originally Posted By cyanide:
I find it strange that many here, belive in god and the Bible, but do not belive in a Sodom and Gomorra type of retribution.
View Quote


I find it strange that many people here like to voice their opinions about God and the Bible without knowing much about either...
View Quote


And if one does not talk about it, how would one learn more about it ?
View Quote


If a newbie came to ar15.com and posted "I think it's strange you guys have ar15s, and don't believe they are jammamatics!"  would he be viewed as a troll, or "looking to learn more about the ar15"?
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:12:29 PM EST
A sort time after 9-11 I bought a Koran, I wanted to learn about the religion,  as I felt no religion would be unkind towards fellow men of any creed. I was shocked to learn, that I was wrong, I went to site after site of Universities looking at scholar reviews of the Koran, only to see I was wrong, it is in my "opinion" not so much a book /guidance on how to be a good person as it seems to be a manual for war, against others of a different faith.

When I first read about it here I thought people were trolling ---- spreading a biased view. I must admit I was wrong. Way to often when a subject comes up that others do no agree on it is called trolling, when in fact it isn't.

Or when the question is presented in a incoherent manner it is considered trolling. I assure you I am not trolling , as that aspect of board communication holds no fascination for me. What does interest me is what people think and feel, and why they think and feel it.


In the end I respect all peoples opinions as they are allowed to have them, even if I do not feel as they do.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:26:57 PM EST
Okay, I'm just nitpicking here, but I think many of you mean to say "Muslim", not "Arab".

Only about 3% of Iranians are Arabs.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:29:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 12:37:50 PM EST by cyanide]
I snatched this tidbit from greenmoutainpatriot over at pre ban, it is an insight to the Iranians.



WHEN THE EARTH MOVES
Quake-devastated Iran
refuses aid from Israel
Tehran official says 'Zionist regime' not welcome to assist victims as death toll soars

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 27, 2003
11:40 p.m. Eastern



© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

With the death toll from Iran's devastating earthquake soaring toward 40,000, and the Islamic republic's leaders openly acknowledging that as much outside help as possible is vital to limit the number of dead and suffering, Iranian officials are refusing to accept aid from only one nation – Israel.

International offers of aid poured in to Iran as rescue teams from all over the world joined a massive search for survivors in the wake of the 6.3-magnitude earthquake that flattened the historic city of Bam, killing as many as 40,000 people.

Witnesses told Reuters hundreds of corpses were bundled into trucks and the back seats of cars. Television footage showed distraught relatives wailing next to bodies wrapped in blankets and rugs lined up on the ground.

While rescue workers have pulled hundreds out of the rubble – including an infant – thousands of others are feared still trapped alive.

"I have lost all my family. My parents, my grandmother and two sisters are under the rubble," one teen survivor named Maryam told reporters.

"The disaster is far too huge for us to meet all of our needs," President Mohammad Khatami told state television in a plea for international assistance.

"We need help, otherwise we will be pulling corpses, not the injured, out of the rubble," added Brigadier Mohammadi, commander of the army in southeast Iran.

Tehran officials stressed the need for sniffer dogs and aid equipment, medicines, blankets and tents, over volunteers.

[red]But as the death toll soars from the world's most serious earthquake since 25,000 were killed in the western Indian state of Gujarat in 2001, Tehran continued its longstanding hostility toward Israel, declaring it would not accept its assistance.

"The Islamic Republic of Iran accepts all kinds of humanitarian aid from all countries and international organizations with the exception of the Zionist regime,"[/red] Jahanbakhsh Khanjani, a spokesman for Iran's Interior Ministry, said following word that unofficial Israeli sources were considering sending aid to Iran.

Earlier, Israel's foreign minister Sylvan Shalom offered condolences and suggested the Middle East foes should set aside their differences for the sake of the victims.

"The Government and people of Israel are moved by the human tragedy experienced by the Iranian people and believe that despite all differences a mobilization of the whole international community is needed to come to the help of families of the victims and wounded," Shalom said in a statement, according to Israel News Agency.

Israel considers the Islamic regime the world's "No. 1 terror nation" due to its support for terror groups like Lebanese Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad.

President George W. Bush, who labeled Iran part of the "axis of evil" along with North Korea and the former regime in Iraq for alleged production of weapons of mass destruction, similarly offered his condolences and pledged humanitarian aid even though Washington has no diplomatic ties with Tehran.

"We stand ready to help the people of Iran," said Bush in a statement.

The State Department later announced the U.S. will send 150,000 pounds of medical supplies and dispatch teams of about 200 search-and-rescue and medical experts from Virginia, Los Angeles and Boston.

Meanwhile, Iran received offers of assistance from most of the European Union states as well as many other countries, including Malaysia, Turkey and Greece, according to the news agency Al Bawaba.

More than 600 tons of relief aid – medicine, ambulances, blankets, heating equipment, tents and canned food – had been shipped so far to the provincial center of Kerman, approximately 200 kilometers north of the quake zone.

The first relief supplies, from Britain, Germany, Russia and Switzerland, were flown into southeastern Iran early today, reports Agence France-Presse, while rescue teams from several dozen countries set to work.

The United Nations announced a 40-ton cargo aircraft carrying tents, tarpaulins, blankets, generators and water purification tablets donated by Italy and Norway was due to leave from southern Italy tomorrow.

Offers of aid also flowed in from across Asia, including from Afghanistan and Pakistan, Australia, Beijing, New Delhi, Sri Lanka, Taiwan and Japan.

The Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies said it needed 20,000 large tents, 30,000 plastic tarpaulins, 200,000 blankets and 30 kerosene generators to care for the tens of thousands of Iranians left homeless. The Red Cross in Geneva issued an appeal for 10 million euros to fund quake relief for the next six months.

Between 70 percent and 80 percent of the city of 200,000 was leveled.

Located southeast of Tehran, Bam lies on the old Silk Road route between China and Europe used by merchants and travelers for centuries. The popular tourist spot is known for its historic citadel that dates back 2,000 years.



[red][b] I am sorry, I see them as uncivilized barbarians, that will never change, if they will not change, they need to be gotten rid of. Like a cancer, kill it all, along with whatever good surrounding tissue to make sure it does not return.[/b][/red]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:53:49 PM EST
[lolabove]

Our very own one trick pony!
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:57:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paul:
[lolabove]

Our very own one trick pony!
View Quote

Please explain Paul ??
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:01:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sukebe:
If they are cold at night let them burn American flags to warm themselves by. If they are hungry send them some pork rinds. If they need shelter, let them re-occupy the American Embassy. Otherwise, Allah will provide.
View Quote


YA! What he said! I can't belive the amount of people here who think that Iran wouldn't distroy the U.S., in allah's name I'm sure, if they had half a chance.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:04:25 PM EST
Cyanide when have you ever been to the mid-east? Ever spend time in the military? Are you a Christian? Lose anyone in the shooting down of Iran Air flight 655?

You have a pretty deep hatred for the people of Iran that has to be based on something that the rest of us dont harber within us.

Do you just hate Iranians or all Arabs?
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:27:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Troll:
Cyanide when have you ever been to the mid-east? Ever spend time in the military? Are you a Christian? Lose anyone in the shooting down of Iran Air flight 655?

You have a pretty deep hatred for the people of Iran that has to be based on something that the rest of us dont harber within us.

Do you just hate Iranians or all Arabs?
View Quote


Fair question ,
I will take them one at a time -

have I ever been in the middle east - no, have I had contact with many from there [b]yes[/b] in what form, visiting students.



Time in the military - yes
1972-1975 Infantry


Am I Christian -- I am Catholic

Do I hate Iranians as a whole - no!
Do I disapprove of  a people that has learned from birth to hate us, --- [b]yes[/b]


do I see their deaths as a good thing --- this is subjective as Cav Vet said good has many meanings -- in the whole yes. The less of them there is to hate us, the less of a problem there is to us here in the USA. Simple math, over simplified maybe, but it still works.

Do I have a beef with Iranian people here in the USA --no.


But I suspect the main question you had is ---


[b]Do you just hate Iranians or all Arabs[/b]

I do not hate, I have a opinion that all those that hate the USA, and it's citizens are at this time in our history are problem to our security, and any problems to our security should be eliminated, not dealt with in a half assed manner. Do Muslims present a problem to our nation, yes, I can not provide you all the links necessary to point this out to you, do a little research and you will see I am not wrong  here.

Now if you do the above and still disagree with me, at least your making an informed decision, and not acting on emotion.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:29:48 PM EST
Count me in with the "keep the $$ here" crowd.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:44:03 PM EST
I voted "could care less, we have many problems here in the USA that need funding to help out our own people", but leaving out the "could care less"  would have been more accurate TO MOST PEOPLE'S thinking.  What I THINK you meant to say was ***COULDN'T*** care less.

Anyway, I *could care less* - IOW, I *do* care.  I get no joy from seeing some farmer in a mudhole get his family killed by an earthquake - no joy at all.

As for militant Muslims - kill 'em all.  God won't have to sort 'em out.  They're all headed to hell on greased skids.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 2:06:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 2:07:22 PM EST by cyanide]
Originally Posted By Tate:
I voted "could care less, we have many problems here in the USA that need funding to help out our own people", but leaving out the "could care less"  would have been more accurate TO MOST PEOPLE'S thinking.  [red]What I THINK you meant to say was ***COULDN'T*** care less.[/red]

Anyway, I *could care less* - IOW, I *do* care.  I get no joy from seeing some farmer in a mudhole get his family killed by an earthquake - no joy at all.

As for militant Muslims - kill 'em all.  God won't have to sort 'em out.  They're all headed to hell on greased skids.
View Quote


I do the best I can with the education my parents were able to provide  me with, I have no doubt it does not compare with most here, but I muddle along the best I can, I always appreciate when a person points out a better way for me to do something, so thank you.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 2:40:25 PM EST
Call me a twisted opportunist but I think the massive quake was a good thing politically. I only wish it had flattened Tehran isntead of a rural area.
Let the Iranian people see that despite all of the bad shit the controlling muslim clerics have been spouting about the US the americans are on scene and helping out.
There have already been villagers speaking out against the Iranian govt for acting to slowly.

Revolution is on the horizon because the youthful majority has a pro-western attitude. The clerics are maintaining control but that is getting weaker by the day.

Every chance the US gets to kick the Iranian clerics in the balls we are doing it.
God just happened to grant us this particular opportunity.

Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:08:00 PM EST
I think it sucks, but I'm tired of our money going everywhere except here.  That's what [i]their[/i] government is for.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:46:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 6:54:30 PM EST by criley]
RE: Biblical aspect some have asked about:

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 ¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, [b]and earthquakes, in divers places.[/b]
8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Luke 13: 1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
[b]4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.[/b]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:58:23 PM EST
Help them out, IF their govt lets us...

These are civillians, most statistics indicate they're pretty well fed up with theocratic rule, and this is definately a chance to show them that the 'Great Satan' really isn't...

Sooner or later, the mullahs will fall, and Iran will find itself looking to develop a new government... They'll be less likely to be hostile to us if we show them the true nature of the USA....

No Iranians were on the 9/11 flight, and while the mullahs finance terror, the mullahs speak for themselves, not their people (as Bush mentioned in his speech)...

We do not need more enemies over there...
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 4:09:16 AM EST
At the current time it is 72 percent that are not for or indifferent to aid being sent.

A larger margin than I would have thought.


Interesting biblical interpretation. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 4:36:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 9:00:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By cyanide:
I find it strange that many here, belive in god and the Bible, but do not belive in a Sodom and Gomorra type of retribution.
View Quote



With this analogy, I would guess the USA is doomed.
AB
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