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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/15/2001 3:45:45 PM EDT
I have noticed that the overall mentality of Law Enforcement has changed since I was a kid (20 yrs ago). When I was growing up, cops were considerate, fair, knowledgeable, and actually listened to people. But in the last decade or so things seemed to have changed. Now I know this doesn't apply to all LEOs, but the younger/newer recruits appear to be very misguided and no longer truly care about the average citizen. Most know little about firearms. The many I have meet at the range shot poorly, train little and seem to think that the Ruger Mini 14 is the greatest riflle money can buy!! Heck, my 14 yr. old son can out shoot most of them! That's just plain sad, folks!! These younger LEOs are all power hungry. They seem to care more about themselves and their careers then really helping anyone. Think about...If your wife got assaulted and you called them to fill out a report, they first accuse you and refuse to hear what's really going on. They might figure it's just another case of Domestic violence, so the husband probably guilty. And if you make any threats about getting revenge they'll probably throw you in jail! At best they might take a report, but never actually do anything to try and catch the guy! No...to busy writing tickets(revenue) and profiling innocent people looking for the "big" drug bust. And I won't even mention the supposed drug war, no-knock warrants, blatant misuse of traffic laws, blatant misuse of their badge, and their attitude of "Holier than Thou". Like I said at the beginning, not all cops are like this, but the younger ones need a real attitude adjustment, and soon. Randall Flag PS Yea, I know I'll get flamed for these views, but the truth hurts sometimes.
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 4:18:30 PM EDT
Sounds like you are the one who needs an attitude adjustment. You make all sorts of broad generalizations and inuendo. So you meet younger cops at the range who aren't gunnies like yourself. So what. So many gun people automatically assume all officers should be gun people, just because we carry one a lot. You wouldn't make that assumption about any other occupation. No, I don't think the Mini is the greatest rifle in the world. I still love my Bushy better. But if the agency required me to carry the Mini like our Sgt's have to, I would. As for the wife being assaulted, of course we first have to take a report! After that....do you have a suspect? No? Then you expect the patrol level officer to go out and start looking for one for you? We're too busy running from call to call a lot of nights. If you don't have a suspect, the case isn't going to go far. As for assuming it's a domestic, you can thank all the guys ahead of you who passed their beaten wives off as something OTHER than a domestic. The tickets we write do not bring revenue to our county, nor do most jurisdictions gain much revenue from ticket writing. That is a huge misconception on the part of the public that needs to end now. It gets repeated endlessly and I'm tired of hearing it. I wont even comment on the "blatant misuse" comments , except to say that our procedures have been tested in the Courts and pass judicial muster. I can't help it if you don't personally approve of them.
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 4:34:17 PM EDT
Randall you are exactly right. Next month I'll be 'celebrating' 17 years in law enforcement. The face of law enforcement HAS changed visibly during this time. The supervisors don't care about their troops, just about their next promotion. The youngsters getting into the job think they're all Dirty Harry. They also think of themselves as above the law. Very few have had military experience, and as was stated, couldn't shoot their way out of a paper bag. Of course there are some good ones out there, but they are few and far between. It's a sad state of affairs and will only get worse. Just my opinion. I call them as I see them.
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 5:35:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2001 5:52:27 PM EDT by UGDIDIOT]
Form your post Reloader, you do not seem to be celebrating anything. As a 17 year vet, it is up to you to influence the young officers in your department. Be a leader, not a whiner. You seem to be Retired On Duty. Just my opinion, I call them as I see them as well.[;D] You got it right tcsd1236.
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 6:04:10 PM EDT
My point was that it is extremely difficult to train new officers that: A) Have no military or similar background. B) have a pre-conceived notion that LE is just like on TV. They have no idea of the monotonous boredom of the third shift, or the volumes of paperwork even the most simple call can involve. Even in the short time I've been in I can see the difference.
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 6:19:01 PM EDT
I made similar comments on another thread. I raised a few questions that have gone unanswered yet. In many placesl, not all, the police force is becoming quasi-military. In these areas the public is the enemy. I know there are many good LEO's out there. My father and uncle are two good examples but they are each in there 50's. They have a different attitude, an easier personality so to speak. They have commented on this very issue many times. I still ask of all the LEO's on this site, how many times have any of you claimed a driver had crossed the divider line because you needed to CYA because you "thought" this person may be up to no good? I'm sure that some times you were right and the driver was up to no good. But guess what? For those of you who practice this, you are violating that drivers 4th ammendment rights and a whole bunch of anti profiling laws. Bottom line, you good LEO's know it sucks when some young rookie gets a guy all pissed off with his @&&hole attitude and you the superior have to deal with it. I watched a cop lie to a judge in court, under oath. It was a disorderly conduct hearing for a friend. I was disgusted. I asked the cop afterwards why he lied. You know what he said? "Your buddy was guilty, I knew it so I did what I had to do to nail him". My buddy wasn't guilty, I was there for the so called incident. The cop was not but said he was and witnessed such and such, which never happened. I was basically told by him while on the stand I was a liar and lucky I wasn't fined also. The courts do not believe a word out of your mouth. You are the accused and in today's society you are guilty the second you are charged and have to prove your innocence. It is unfathomable to any court that a police officer would lie. They do it all the time in my experience. Again, how many of you(LEO's) made false claims to CYA on a traffic stop? To me this is the worst kind of cop, one who should be behind bars. Be honest guys. If you have never done this, how many times have you seen fellow officers do this? How about rude comments, beligerant attitudes, illegal vehicle searches? You guys wonder why the general public is wary of police, take a look at yourselves from the other side of the fence for once, you might just see what I'm talking about. All you good LEO's don't get pissed at me, you are definitly a dying breed but you guys who have to cheat to get your man, you are everything you swear to protect society from. Deal with it!
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 6:27:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2001 6:41:34 PM EDT by RandallFlag]
Originally Posted By tcsd1236: Sounds like you are the one who needs an attitude adjustment. You make all sorts of broad generalizations and inuendo. So you meet younger cops at the range who aren't gunnies like yourself. So what. So many gun people automatically assume all officers should be gun people, just because we carry one a lot. You wouldn't make that assumption about any other occupation. [b] No I don't. But if my life depended on a pistol, I sure as hell would learn how to use it.[/b] As for assuming it's a domestic, you can thank all the guys ahead of you who passed their beaten wives off as something OTHER than a domestic. [b] And you just proved my point. So much for treating people as individuals. Who's making broad generalizations now?[/b] The tickets we write do not bring revenue to our county, nor do most jurisdictions gain much revenue from ticket writing. That is a huge misconception on the part of the public that needs to end now. It gets repeated endlessly and I'm tired of hearing it. [b]Okay, then tell me, where does the money go? It ain't staying in my pocket. And answer me this, have you ever written a ticket just for the sake of writting one?[/b] I wont even comment on the "blatant misuse" comments , except to say that our procedures have been tested in the Courts and pass judicial muster. I can't help it if you don't personally approve of them. [b]The courts are even worse!! Do you also support every Supreme Court ruling (keep in mind you're on a gun board)??[/b] Randall Flag
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 6:49:26 PM EDT
Randall a little extreme but true. I'm only 27 but have lived alot . I spent 4 years in the 82ed fresh out of high school . When I came home to take over my dads biss. all the kids that wear picked on and beat up in high school wear now LEO . They now considered themselves some kind of supreme being. Thinking ther now better than everybody and out for revenge.
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 6:49:53 PM EDT
Well all cops definitely aren't bad. And a lot of the problem may be with the policies that are currently in place. However, I agree with a lot of the stuff stated hear, and I would rather deal with the problems myself than call 911. sgtar15
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 7:02:09 PM EDT
Flagg: Ticket revenue goes into the general fund for the State, with a very few exceptions for minor infractions. The township gets no money directly.The presiding Court gets a small per centage for court costs. Regardless of whether I support every SCOTUS decision, it is still the law of the land. You can thank the suit-happy climate for much of the recent court decisions. Someone takes a case to court over a practice that may have been on-going for years. Some of those cases ineveitably make their way to the SCOTUS, whose ruling affects the entire country. Cases like Tenn. vs Garner have national reprecussions on standard LE practices. The average officer goes through an entire career without having to fire their weapon in anger. With those kinds of odds, it is no wonder that some officers play a game of russian roulette and gamble they don't need to keep up on their skills. They also let their other skills, such as DT, EVOC, etc deteriorate. The domestic scenario was not a generalization. I was simply stating that in the past, numerous cases of abusive husbands down-playing events to officers occured. That contributed to the passage of must-arrest laws in many states. For those of you who are complaining of younger LEO's, keep this in mind: LE hiring goes in 20 year cycles, give or take. Right now, we are going through the normal cycle where many of the officers hired around 20 years ago are retiring and being replaced with new officers. Tie that in with the Federal officer hiring programs and you get a lot of new officers. I think some of you are simply used to an older generation of officers that had more of a civil servant attitude, i.e. "don't go out there looking for stuff, it's only a paycheck, I'm not going to do anything extra". Most of the officers I know are extremely professional in their conduct and deportment with the general public. When I've encountered public hostility to individual officers, it's been because people don't understand police procedures or why things are done a certain way.
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 7:20:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Valkyrie: I made similar comments on another thread. I raised a few questions that have gone unanswered yet. In many placesl, not all, the police force is becoming quasi-military. In these areas the public is the enemy.
View Quote
Valkyrie is correct on this. Certain elements in political power are deliberately creating Miltary Style police forces in some cities, such as Dallas, Texas. And they are deliberating creating an animosity in the younger cops to view citizens, voters and tax payers as mere "Civilians", little better than peasants and possibly the "Enemy". Something is coming down in this country, something BIG....
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 7:39:57 PM EDT
It saddens me to see other young LEO's, other than myself, treating the public so badly. Indeed, law enforcement HAS changed since the "Good 'Ol Days." On the other hand, I know many officers that have been in this line of work for many years (some longer than I've been alive) who treat people FAR worse than most of the younger guys with the bad attitudes. I try to show respect for these people, even when I may really don't think they deserve the air they breathe. I agree, many officers get into this line of work for all of the wrong reasons; however, from what I've seen, the majority of them "weed themselves out" of police work within a short time. Any other LEO's agree? [?]
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 8:07:20 PM EDT
I agree with Randall. I had a friend that became a cop. He always speeds (I'm talking 90mph+ on the highway) knowing he can "badge" his way out of a ticket. I went out with him and some of his cop friends (all fresh out of the academy) and I have to say that all of them, with the exception of my buddy, were complete a-holes! They thought they were the biggest bad-asses in the place!
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 8:09:37 PM EDT
I totally agree with Todd. Anyone who becomes an LEO with the conception that they are the end all be all of authority won't be around long! The honeymoon ends very quickly for those with this attitude. It is true that the police do have a lot of authority, but it must be used responsibly. The amount of responsibility that we undertake everyday when we go out to enforce the law is tremendous. Everyone is aware of everything you do and is watching for you to screw up so they can point the finger. There are bad apples in every profession, but most realize very quickly that they're not in the right line of work. As far as being able to shoot, I can shoot high 290's in qualifying against a paper target, but one time under simulated stress conditions I missed a man sized target THREE FEET AWAY THREE TIMES!!! That was an eye opener for sure. I know other officers that only shoot their guns every six months, but do extremely well under stress, but their paper targets look like they were blindfolded. I work very hard to do the very best job that I can do every day, most of the people I work with do also. It goes without saying that no one wants to get a speeding ticket or even get stopped by the police for that matter. The job is to enforce the law without predjudice, some abuse that, most don't. Just my .02 Pirate
Link Posted: 3/15/2001 11:22:06 PM EDT
I am fairly new at the law enforcement gig! I have a degree in criminal justice! and took elected office as an state constable( kind of like a sheriff but locally elected within town or township! instead of countywide!) I do not think i'm god, in fact i don't have an mean bone in my body! and i am not rude to the people i deal with! But i do have to agree with the shooting part! at our qualification we had a municipal officer that was also a constable and this guy had better hope to god he never sees a gunfight! our targets were being held in target holders that the metal uprights were 31/2 feet apart, and at seven yards i had to duck his rounds that were bouncing back at me from him hitting the uprights in order to qualify! I have no idea how he got through police academy shooting like that! I had experience from shooting IDPA local matches and embarrassed everyone at the range![>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/16/2001 12:56:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2001 1:09:25 AM EDT by PoppinFresh]
Check out my post here... LEO's are so defensive right now, they don't see the forest for the trees. Every bit of criticism is a personal attack. But, they don't seem to be the problem.[0:)] I wonder what is.... [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=8901#lastPost[/url]
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 7:33:24 PM EDT
Randall flag is a prick
Link Posted: 4/22/2001 11:35:40 PM EDT
Damn...I get sick of reading these topics over and over again. Thank goodness I'm a good YOUNG leo.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 12:18:37 AM EDT
There are good and bad things about comparing LEO's today with LEO's in the past. In the "good old days" it was a lot easier for a "bad" cop to get away with committing a crime. Primarily due to less oversight by Internal Affairs and Federal Agencies. Also by a more passive attitude towards "rogue" cops by their department heads. In the past 20,30 , 40 years there has actually been an INCREASE in the professionalism of LEO's and their departments. On the other hand there have been some disturbing changes that have taken place. Police Agencies have and are becoming more paramilitarized. They are also implementing policies which are more "gestapo" like than they did in the past. This isn't really a reflection on individual LEO's but departmental policies which are partly brought on by "fashion" (yes.."fashion": whatever the current LE fad is) and by Supreme Court Decisions which allow this sort of behavior as well as changes in the Laws (today we have all kinds of laws which are more restrictive than what we had 30 years ago). Also because of increased oversight..police officers are more likely to commit CYA and act with less initiative than they did in the past. There also seems to be a decline in police marksmanship in the past 15-20 years since departments started to switch over to Semi-Automatic Handguns from revolvers. I think that this is mostly due to the heavier trigger pulls on semi-automatics, and due to a psychological temptation of firing a poorly aimed shot because you have the assurance of being able to fire 14 more shots (depending on your gun) before having to reload. Also because there are more women on the force now..and they tend to have weaker hands then men.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 12:34:56 AM EDT
Current Law Enforcement recruits are better educated, better trained, and come from cleaner backgrounds than any cops in the past. That may be a good or bad thing depending on your point of veiw.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 1:08:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2001 1:09:17 AM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Maybe I need an attitude adjustment but so do the young LEO that I have run into in the past. Oh ya, female hot shot LEO's need a serious attitude adjustment as well. #1 I liked it how the young minority sh*thead lied in the courtroom. #2 I also liked how that b*tch lied under oath in the courtroom while keeping a poker face. After the hearing the b*tch scurried out of the courtroom real fast. I wanted to have a few eXtra words with the b*tch on neutral turf. Courtroom turf that I knew she couldn't f*ck with me on. #3 More accounts but you guys wouldn't be interested See, I only trashed the ones I have run into that deserved it.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 2:07:55 AM EDT
Living in Los Angeles, I see everyday how LEOs are trying to work with their hands tied behind their back. Not only is the media against police now, but so is the public the the LEOs are trying to protect. The other day, there was a police persuit where the criminals ended up hitting another car and killing the occupant. The media jumped all over the police, blaming them for the death. What about the criminal who was running away? Why didn't they blame him. Also, I've talked to so many officers who feel that they can't even do their job to their best ability because they are afraid of getting a complaint filed on them. Apparently, it is so easy to file a complaint these days that criminals just carry the complaint forms with them, and can fill them out and mail them in anonymously. These complaints have to be investigated by supervisors, so the supervisors are overloaded trying to investigate, rather than supervise. Imagine driving down the street trying to do your job and everyone who has watched an episode of NYPD Blue is trying to tell you how things should be done.
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