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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 9/7/2001 7:20:31 PM EDT
I called the local BATF office due to a matter that someone mentioned to me. I am thinking about going to work for a company that involves driving onto airport property here. I was told that it was against federal law just to drive onto the property with a loaded pistol on me or in the car. My understanding is that Federal law only prohibits carrying in the 'sterile' area, you know, past the metal detectors. I called the local BATF office to verify this. He agreed with me about the Federal aspects of this, then he said "gun laws already infringe too much on people's rights, and this would really be going too far". I sat there with phone to my ear in stunned silence. He then said that it might be some local or state law, but not covered under Federal law except as mentioned. He said to contact the local airport police, the state AG, and the FCC to find out the entire story. He was real nice and we carried on a nice conversation, but the comment about infringing on rights really floored me. Last thing I expected to hear from an ATF guy. Maybe he was BS'ing me, but maybe they are not ALL bad. Just wanted to share this. I was flabbergasted.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 7:29:13 PM EDT
he was just leading you in to a false sence of security before they murder you & burn down your house
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 7:31:45 PM EDT
you must have misdialed.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 7:43:39 PM EDT
Don't be too suprised..... not all cops are jack boted thugs that think your a dirty piece of shit because you own firearms... I know it's hard to believe but even feds are people too.... not everyone is brainwashed.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 7:48:27 PM EDT
Ok...that post surprised me...
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 7:49:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYshooter: he was just leading you in to a false sence of security before they murder you & burn down your house
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Now, now. Aren't you an LEO?
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 7:52:05 PM EDT
Back when I was checking up on how to get my "assault weapon" registration forms for here in California, I gave a call to a local BATF office and had what I can only describe as being a VERY refreshing conversation with somebody there. He felt very similarly about how things are going all too far and he was none too happy that his job was made more difficult by having to be bothered with questions about both Federal and state firearm laws, ofcourse a question about state law should goto the state DOJ but I called the BATF so that I could get the DOJ number because my local idiot clerks at the Police Departments couldn't figure it out and they had NO CLUE that there was a grace period for registering "assault weapons". LOL, you should have seen the look on the clerks face when I told her that SHE was SUPPOSED to have the forms available and her response was, "I believe that the time to register has already ended" which at the time I was there talking to her it was only Feburary 2000 and I had to educate her on the matter a bit and plead with her to atleast get her facts straight for the benefit of anyone else to come in asking for registration forms.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 7:54:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 8:02:27 PM EDT
now now everyone, it was a dark-sided joke. Larry is there anything wrong with LEO's making jokes "funny or not"
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 8:08:20 PM EDT
I recently moved to Montana from PRK and had to transfer my FFL up here. I called the local BATF office in Helena and talked to the licensing agent there about the process to transfer my FFL. He said he couldn't believe what the sheep in PRK are willing to put up with and asked if that was why I moved back to Montana. When I lived in PRK I did a lot of business with agents from other feceral agencies and they all had a very low opinion of the enforcement branch of the BATF. I personally never dealt with them, but the licensing side of the BATF always treated me politely and efficiently. The way the people at the PRK Dept. of Justice act is another game all together. They are a mixture of bumbling idiots, and jack booted thugs.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 8:26:27 PM EDT
[b]You won't believe what an ATF agent said today[/b]
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As if that makes today special.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 9:06:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigMac: Don't be too suprised..... not all cops are jack boted thugs that think your a dirty piece of shit because you own firearms... I know it's hard to believe but even feds are people too.... not everyone is brainwashed.
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Yeah, but we're talking about the BATF here. Not to equate gun ownership to drug usage, but that's like calling the DEA field office and hearing the SA say "yeah, I like to smoke a little crack cocaine every once in a while, it's good for the lungs..." If someone is to join the BATF Firearms division, I would assume they, at the very least, believe in upholding firearms laws as they exist. If not, they are in the wrong business.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 9:15:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher: If someone is to join the BATF Firearms division, I would assume they, at the very least, believe in upholding firearms laws as they exist. If not, they are in the wrong business.
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The man that I took a firearms safety course from used to work for the ATF, he didn't say what section, but he was very 2nd oriented. Maybe if we had more gunowners apply, and get jobs in the ATF there would be less problems with JBT's. just my $0.02
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 9:27:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SDavid: The man that I took a firearms safety course from used to work for the ATF, he didn't say what section, but he was very 2nd oriented. Maybe if we had more gunowners apply, and get jobs in the ATF there would be less problems with JBT's. just my $0.02
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I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. I agree with you on the gunowners in BATF deal, BUT, I see two major problems. How are you going to get past the screening process when you are a NRA, GOA, etc. member, or when they ask you in the oral boards: "do you think the 2nd amendment protects the rights of citizens to own arms?" (not an actual oral board question to my knowledge, but sounds reasonable to me). Second, most gun owners I know would NEVER join the BATF out of principle. Would you really stand by and watch them carry out their daily task, thinking you will change the organization? I am an optimist, but I'm not stupid. I would think one would grow disgusted with the agency long before they effected any change in the system. I still stand by my belief, that if you join the BATF, you probably don't believe that the 2nd protects RKBA, but I'm sure that's not 100% true.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 9:33:09 PM EDT
Like I said before, the BATF is nothing but an armed tax collection agency. A tax collector's job is take what you own and make it difficult for you to keep what is left. Can anyone honestly say they love the IRS?
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 10:20:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2001 10:24:39 PM EDT by SDavid]
Originally Posted By HKocher: I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. I agree with you on the gunowners in BATF deal, BUT, I see two major problems. How are you going to get past the screening process when you are a NRA, GOA, etc. member, or when they ask you in the oral boards: "do you think the 2nd amendment protects the rights of citizens to own arms?" (not an actual oral board question to my knowledge, but sounds reasonable to me).
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I know it’s a cryptic answer but, know their language and translate back to them. Allow me an example: I am a high school teacher and a portion of the money for my position comes from federal money. I look at my job (special education) as one that I am to work my way out of a job. For example if I can give my students the information and techniques to survive the educational process without my help then I have done what I set out to do, then I can sleep at night. I got this position by translating what I plan on doing into their language and they keep hiring me back into the same position. This same technique can be applied to the ATF, or any other government agency.
Second, most gun owners I know would NEVER join the BATF out of principle. Would you really stand by and watch them carry out their daily task, thinking you will change the organization? I am an optimist, but I'm not stupid. I would think one would grow disgusted with the agency long before they effected any change in the system.
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I wouldn’t join the ATF in that I see my mission in life is to educate people during their transformation from young adults to adults in the world specifically as young men and women who will make up the backbone of the United States. Never being a member of the ATF I cannot say with certainty what their daily task is, I can only make assumptions. One can say that their daily task is to enforce tax collection on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms; regulate licensing of the above; or to screw over anyone connected with those products. Personally I think that licensing and taxing those products is counterproductive, but that is another topic. I am more of a pessimist, am relatively smart, and also passive aggressive (wouldn’t you agree? [:D] ) As more of the late 20 something’s and 30 something’s begin taking midlevel positions I become more able to affect their thinking on certain matters, I do this where I work now, admittedly it is not 100% effective but it does help to subvert where I can (spreading discontent as we used to say in the Navy).
I still stand by my belief, that if you join the BATF, you probably don't believe that the 2nd protects RKBA, but I'm sure that's not 100% true.
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I would agree with you on this, but for each person who joins, that 100% becomes less, it may never reach 0% but we may get the agency disbanded before that time. Myself, I would sacrifice my job for more freedom. edited to fix my lack of quoting correctly, (twice) sorry
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 10:48:50 PM EDT
I hope all ATF agents everywhere read this board and live in fear that motivated ar-15 owners might someday hunt them down when we suddenly stop putting up with that unconstitutional agency and actually decide to do something about it. Never, every forget that the NFA of 1934 is total, unrepentant bullshit. If only Miller had shown up during the appeal, maybe none of this would be happening now.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 10:51:33 PM EDT
That guy must have been a cadet.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 11:32:05 PM EDT
Your right i dont belive it. I have worked for 4 gun shops now and have had alot of experience with BATF. Never ran into one who was Pro-RKBA. Did meet some IRS "armed" agents who were really scary. I tell you what if they ever start shooting at you stand still and profile like a paper target, you will be safe.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 11:53:22 PM EDT
Whatever government touches, turns to shit---or in the case of some agencies---turns to ashes. I will concede that it is possible to have 2 or 3 pro-RKBA'ers --- you're a lucky man LARRYG!!
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 1:07:25 AM EDT
A few years ago, when I was in the academy, we were on break and in the break room bsing. The ATF was using the range for the day. In walks this guy in civies and we start talking. He informs us that he was formally Indiana State Police for many years but then decided to join the ATF. I looked dead at him said, "I'm sorry" got up and walked away. Stupid, stupid, stupid! Why leave a presitigous agency for someone who we all know are pretty much our guberment's form of the SS? Oh BTW, they were using the range right? The range rules clearly state NO AUTOMATICE FIRE. These butt holes are ripping away with M-16's. Boy our DT instructor was PISSED! Makes me wonder if there any of those boneheads lurking around on this board being posers?
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 1:29:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 3:57:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: "I called the local BATF office" "He agreed with me" "then he said "gun laws already infringe too much on people's rights, and this would really be going too far" "He was real nice and we carried on a nice conversation"
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[i]How long does it take to trace a call?[/i][:D] Kiwi
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 4:38:01 AM EDT
A friend of mine said that he recently talked to two different BATF agents in person, about a legal issue. He got two different answers. This is not the first time I've heard of this. Either they are so under trained, or they enjoy spreading false and misleading information. Both scenarios are scary. How can you trust them? I've personaly called the BATF office in Washington and have had similiar experiances. Most of the time I get transfered around for five or ten minutes until I find someone who can even answer my question. And when I have talked to agents, they have been arguementative, beligerant, and not much help. They've been snide, and act as if I'm a criminal just by asking them a legal question. Like I'm trying to find a way to skirt a law. Sounds like you had a nice experiance, but I wouldn't read to much into it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 5:41:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 5:50:34 AM EDT
Is there hope yet, guys?
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 7:41:29 AM EDT
I talked to one after a serious mismeasurement on a shotgun barrel (18.125") I told him I was planning on throwing it in the river. His response was "The law states that it shall be no LESS than 18" 18.125 is longer than 18" enjoy your weapon!" Go figure!
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 7:53:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NYshooter: now now everyone, it was a dark-sided joke. Larry is there anything wrong with LEO's making jokes "funny or not"
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Yea. Cops don't have a sense of humor, remember. [;)]
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 2:14:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYshooter: now now everyone, it was a dark-sided joke. Larry is there anything wrong with LEO's making jokes "funny or not"
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I was just funnin' ya. stubbs, there is no hope. I was wrong. Read all the posts. They (ATF agents) are all JBT assholes, just like we are all lunatics, according to people like Feinstein, et al. He was obviously trying to set me up or trace the call. Of course with Caller ID, he had my number the second his phone rang and did not have to carry on a conversation to get my number, but obviously that is why he talked nice.
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 3:24:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: stubbs, there is no hope. I was wrong. Read all the posts. They (ATF agents) are all JBT assholes, just like we are all lunatics, according to people like Feinstein, et al. He was obviously trying to set me up or trace the call. Of course with Caller ID, he had my number the second his phone rang and did not have to carry on a conversation to get my number, but obviously that is why he talked nice.
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Hey, I don't know if you are referring to me, but I clearly noted that there are probably exceptions to the rule. BUT, I still hold on to the belief the MOST people that wish to be associated (by employment) with the BATF are at the very least slightly anti-gun, or are neutral on the issue, and 'just doing their job.' The job of the BATF firearms division (other than glorified tax collectors) is to uphold the gun laws of the land (ignoring the 2nd), so what kind of person would uphold a law that they strongly disagree with??? I guess if you are a hypocrite, and just want a job, then one could ignore this conflict of interest. But I find it hard to believe that many (not all) gunowners with a conscious could uphold a gun law that they are ethically opposed to. Similarly, if you don't agree with taxation, you probably shouldn't work for the IRS. If you think immigration should be left uncheck, don't work for the Border Patrol. Or if you believe in the legalization of marijuana, the DEA is probably not a good ethical career choice for you. If you believe in telling the truth, politics probably won't suit you.[;)] So are all BATF agents/support staff/etc. thugs or JBTs, or gun-haters??? Probably not. But do most BATF agents at the very least, believe in the validity of the gun laws they are tasked to enforce??? I hope so, otherwise they really should consider a career change. Possibly an agency whose entire existence doesn't conflict so much with their personal beliefs and ethics.
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 5:20:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher: Or if you believe in the legalization of marijuana, the DEA is probably not a good ethical career choice for you
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Damn, there goes that job interview [:D]
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 5:50:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYshooter: now now everyone, it was a dark-sided joke. Larry is there anything wrong with LEO's making jokes "funny or not"
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Another clown that can`t find a circus................[grenade]
Link Posted: 9/8/2001 5:56:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By HKocher: Or if you believe in the legalization of marijuana, the DEA is probably not a good ethical career choice for you
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Damn, there goes that job interview [:D]
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LOL! Well, I wasn't speaking of you personally, but you get my point.
Link Posted: 9/9/2001 12:37:09 PM EDT
Back around '91, I went to the Angeles National Forest above LA to go hiking. I wanted to bring my brand new M1A, so I asked the first ranger that I could find if this would bring the world down on my head. Fully expecting him to look down his nose and tell me "tut tut tut aboslutely not!", he proceeds to give ME a lecture on the second amendment. Happy as could be, I proceed to go on a long hike down Devil's Canyon carrying my new M1A at port arms (in my haste, I neglected to buy a sling). Years later, the sweaty hand marks that were permanently put on the stock during that hike remind me of when gun owners had a modicum of freedom in this state.
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