Computer techs tip police on child porn
Thursday, March 16, 2006
HANNAH WOLFSON
News staff writer
As an information technology specialist, Troy Wallwork has seen the secrets inside plenty of computers, from financial records to love letters.

But when a recent search of one customer's PC turned up what looked like child pornography, he didn't know what to do. On the one hand, his company's reputation depends on preserving clients' privacy. On the other, he said the pictures he found were just too graphic to ignore, so he called the police.

"It was a very traumatic day for me, it really was," said Wallwork, who owns Dataperk in Mountain Brook. "I just hope I did the right thing."

Police say he did - the tip led to the arrest of a Vestavia Hills couple last month. William David Smith III and Laura Holland Smith face charges of intent to distribute obscene material and are each out on a $10,000 bond. Attempts to reach their lawyer were unsuccessful.

Authorities have long asked commercial photo developers to alert them to potentially illegal images. But in the age of digital photography, some images may never see the light of day. Now police say they depend on companies with access to computers to alert them to suspicious activity such as child pornography.

"We're glad these guys had enough sense of community obligation to call us on it; otherwise we never would have known it," said Mountain Brook Police Chief Johnny Stanley. "The chances of stumbling upon it were pretty slim."

In fact, it's such a crucial source of information that some metro area police who specialize in computers and child pornography said they wouldn't talk about it for fear of alerting criminals.

Different ways:

"We get cases referred to us several different ways," including from repair companies, said Lt. Paul Logan, head of the computer forensics team at the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department.

Bosses have a right to check out employees' computers and can fire workers for storing even legal information if it's not approved by company policy. In fact, Wallwork said some of his business comes from companies asking him to snoop in employee files.

In a famous case, the dean of Harvard University's divinity school, Ronald Thiemann, stepped down in 1998 after technicians found pornography on his office computer.

Alabama law doesn't compel computer technicians or anyone else with access to a computer to report child pornography, said Julie Schilleci-Foster, deputy district attorney for Jefferson County.

"But there is a civic duty and a moral obligation to report in a crime like that," she said.

Really a hero:

Attorney General Troy King went a step further.

"I think that a computer repairman who sees child pornography and then reports it so that the exploitation of more children can be stopped is really a hero and that's what it takes," he said.

Yet there are questions about what's fair game when it comes to personal computers, said James Moor, a philosophy professor at Dartmouth College and president of the International Society for Ethics and Information Technology.

"There are always these kinds of balance questions," he said. "On the one hand, you're trying to protect privacy; on the other hand, you don't want child pornography out there."

Wallwork agreed.

"Generally we take privacy very seriously because people trust us with their lives and their financial data that's in the computer," he said. "It's hard to work on someone's computer without coming across something that's private."

To get around the problem, some computer repair companies have a policy of notifying the police whenever the information they turn up seems suspicious.

National rule:

The Geek Squad repair team at Best Buy on U.S. 280, for example, follows the company's national rule to do so and keeps a police officer's card on hand. In the last year and a half, workers there have turned three child pornography cases over to the police, according to Adam Johnsey, who runs the Geek Squad.

"We don't go looking and digging for it, but in the process of searching for things like spyware it does pop up on the screen." he said. "We'll call the police and then the experts will take it and they'll verify that the material was actually put there intentionally."

He did the right thing.

Can you imagine what would have happened if they saw pics of the gun collections that some of us have?

He definitely did the right thing.

Child porn needs to go (before somebody decides to get rid of all internet porn in order to save the children), but this line cought my eye:

...but in the process of searching for things like spyware it does pop up on the screen.

That's funny, I've never had any anti-spyware program open up random files for me.

How could you NOT report something like that?

The Geek Squad repair team at Best Buy on U.S. 280...

So use something insecure like Windows, get infected by spyware, take your computer in to Best Buy to get the spyware fixed, then go to jail.  I've seen plenty of inappropriate things installed using backdoors that Microsoft put in Windows.  I don't think that simply owning and using a Microsoft product should justify jail time.  The problem with child pornography is that simple possession is a crime even if someone else put it on your computer and you had no intention of installing it.  The law, like with murder, needs to have an intent component.  If the person intended to install it, then yes put them in jail.  If their crime is simply using a Microsoft product, then they don't deserve to be put in jail.z

Quoted: Can you imagine what would have happened if they saw pics of the gun collections that some of us have? He definitely did the right thing.

Hello police? This is Bob Fooberman at Fooberman Computer Repair. I have a laptop here that is loaded with pictures of weapons. What kind of weapons? Guns. Lots and lots of guns. What kind? There appear to be a lot of handguns and a bunch of bigger guns too...Some of them look like M-16s. You are sending an officer by to take a look? Great.

*Officer walks in*

Are these the pictures you called about citizen Fooberman? Okay....lets see......Bushmaster AR-15, M1 Garand, Walther PP handgun.......All this stuff is legal. Yes, seriously. There are no laws against owning firearms or pictures of firearms. All these gun pictures are perfectly legal. Have a nice day, citizen Fooberman.

*Officer leaves*

I imagine that's pretty much how it would go. Except the police probably wouldn't go that far in checking things out.

See, owning and posessing firearms isn't a crime. Neither is posessing pictures of firearms. Kiddie porn pictures, on the other hand, ARE a crime to own or posess, and merely finding them on a computer is probable cause to begin a criminal investigation.  

Quoted: So use something insecure like Windows, get infected by spyware, take your computer in to Best Buy to get the spyware fixed, then go to jail.

Not quite.

Investigators examining your computer can tell the difference between an image placed there by malware, and a person actively seeking out kiddie porn.

I've seen plenty of inappropriate things installed using backdoors that Microsoft put in Windows.  I don't think that simply owning and using a Microsoft product should justify jail time.

It doesn't.

The problem with child pornography is that simple possession is a crime even if someone else put it on your computer and you had no intention of installing it.  The law, like with murder, needs to have an intent component.  If the person intended to install it, then yes put them in jail.  If their crime is simply using a Microsoft product, then they don't deserve to be put in jail.z

Again, that is not how investigations of this type work. People who get busted for kiddie porn on their computers do not get busted for a single image on a machine that is demonstrably infected by a trojan horse or some other type of malware.

Strangely enough, almost this exact scenario happened recently in my town with a vice principal of the high school.

Quoted: Child porn needs to go (before somebody decides to get rid of all internet porn in order to save the children), but this line cought my eye: ...but in the process of searching for things like spyware it does pop up on the screen. That's funny, I've never had any anti-spyware program open up random files for me.

There are many adware programs that install using backdoors in Microsoft Internet Explorer that do just that.  I've probably seen over a hundred of them that would pop-up extremely inappropriate images and ads at random, even when you weren't connected to the Internet or even running Microsoft IE.  Usually they simply pop-up an ad on each and every link you click on.  Several times the pictures appeared to be of girls of a questionable young age.  I do bookkeeping for three local churches, and I have seen child pornography on two computers at one of the churches installed by an adware program.  Should I have done what Best Buy did and tried to get a preacher and a church secretary arrested?

Again, simply using a Microsoft product should not result in jail time.  I've seen too many people that would be punished for something they did not intend to do.  Yes they should use something instead that is secure, but not everyone is computer savvy enough to protect themselves from this type of thing.z

Quoted: PC service is one thing i DO NOT miss. I am not a bashful person and i have seen sexual shit on peoples computer that made me want to hurl. there are some VERY sick peolpe in this world.

Yes there are.

Bestiality has to be the worst.

You wouldn't believe how often the PC guys would find shit like that at Circuit City.  One time we sold a computer that someone else returned, and the other person that bought it had to bring it back in because someone forgot to delete all the porno off of it first.

Quoted: Quoted: Can you imagine what would have happened if they saw pics of the gun collections that some of us have? He definitely did the right thing. Hello police? This is Bob Fooberman at Fooberman Computer Repair. I have a laptop here that is loaded with pictures of weapons. What kind of weapons? Guns. Lots and lots of guns. What kind? There appear to be a lot of handguns and a bunch of bigger guns too...Some of them look like M-16s. You are sending an officer by to take a look? Great. *Officer walks in* Are these the pictures you called about citizen Fooberman? Okay....lets see......Bushmaster AR-15, M1 Garand, Walther PP handgun.......All this stuff is legal. Yes, seriously. There are no laws against owning firearms or pictures of firearms. All these gun pictures are perfectly legal. Have a nice day, citizen Fooberman. *Officer leaves* I imagine that's pretty much how it would go. Except the police probably wouldn't go that far in checking things out. See, owning and posessing firearms isn't a crime. Neither is posessing pictures of firearms. Kiddie porn pictures, on the other hand, ARE a crime to own or posess, and merely finding them on a computer is probable cause to begin a criminal investigation.

Unless it was 9 ar-15s, 5 HKs, and Uzi...etc..

Regardless, having childporn should be mandatory death sentance.

Quoted: Strangely enough, almost this exact scenario happened recently in my town with a vice principal of the high school.

Weird. Must be some sort of stupid pedo epidemic. We just had a Sheriff's deputy busted down here for the same identical thing.

Link: www.nbc-2.com/articles/readcollierarticle.asp?articleid=6213&z=13&p=

Quoted: Quoted: PC service is one thing i DO NOT miss. I am not a bashful person and i have seen sexual shit on peoples computer that made me want to hurl. there are some VERY sick peolpe in this world. Yes there are. Bestiality has to be the worst.

 

Ever seen a video of a guy masturbating with steel wool?   How about one of some chick slitting a guy's penis with a razor blade?

Work vice sometime.  You'll never look at a frozen chicken the same way again.

Quoted: Ever seen a video of a guy masturbating with steel wool?

Uhh.................No.....I have security camera footage here of a guy masturbating in a computer lab, but he is doing it the old fashioned way.

How about one of some chick slitting a guy's penis with a razor blade?

Uh.................................No. Though I did see a guy who actually cut his yoo-hoo in TWO HALVES with an exacto knife as a form of "body modification".

I still have nightmares about that one.

Work vice sometime.  You'll never look at a frozen chicken the same way again.

Frozen chicken??? What in the world could they possibly do with a frozen......

Wait.

Don't tell me.

I REALLY don't want to know.

Quoted: Child porn needs to go (before somebody decides to get rid of all internet porn in order to save the children), but this line cought my eye: ...but in the process of searching for things like spyware it does pop up on the screen. That's funny, I've never had any anti-spyware program open up random files for me.

True but some will list the file being scanned, and something refering to gerbils, donkeys and midgets would get your attention.   That was on one of the VP's laptops when I was doing corporate IT.

Quoted: Quoted: PC service is one thing i DO NOT miss. I am not a bashful person and i have seen sexual shit on peoples computer that made me want to hurl. there are some VERY sick peolpe in this world. Yes there are. Bestiality has to be the worst.

I could care less if some pervert wants to sleep with his dog, keeps them off the kids.   Child rapists are the lowest of the low in my book.   I think bestiality is just disgusting, but could care less if they legalize it.  I don't consider animals people (hell I kill and eat them) so if some sicko wants to have sex with one, more power to him, just leave my dog alone

Pedophilea is a vile perversion that is much, much worse than simple bestiality.

You'll never look at a frozen chicken the same way again.

I don't even want to imagine ... but wouldn't it be a bit cold? Why not a fresh chicken?

(Please don't tell me they put it back in the freezer after and re-use it)

<--- Can't believe I'm even saying that.

obscene material and are each out on a $10,000 bond.

Hmm.  This strikes me as a little odd.  Usually obscenity is different from child pornography.  Obscenity is things like S&M and bestiality.  Curious.  

Quoted: The Geek Squad repair team at Best Buy on U.S. 280... So use something insecure like Windows, get infected by spyware, take your computer in to Best Buy to get the spyware fixed, then go to jail.  I've seen plenty of inappropriate things installed using backdoors that Microsoft put in Windows.  I don't think that simply owning and using a Microsoft product should justify jail time.  The problem with child pornography is that simple possession is a crime even if someone else put it on your computer and you had no intention of installing it.  The law, like with murder, needs to have an intent component.  If the person intended to install it, then yes put them in jail.  If their crime is simply using a Microsoft product, then they don't deserve to be put in jail.z

I have never seen a spyware that put kiddie porn on your comp.  Not to mention that it would be easy to prove if the kiddie porn was put there by malware or intentionaly downloaded.

Quoted: You'll never look at a frozen chicken the same way again. I don't even want to imagine ... but wouldn't it be a bit cold? Why not a fresh chicken? (Please don't tell me they put it back in the freezer after and re-use it) <--- Can't believe I'm even saying that.

Congrats,  You're the winner.  Never buy whole chickens.

Quoted: Quoted: Strangely enough, almost this exact scenario happened recently in my town with a vice principal of the high school. Weird. Must be some sort of stupid pedo epidemic. We just had a Sheriff's deputy busted down here for the same identical thing. Link: www.nbc-2.com/articles/readcollierarticle.asp?articleid=6213&z=13&p=

+1.  Madison, AL Police Officer about 3 years ago; Huntsville, AL LEO charged about a month or so ago.

Merlin

Quoted: I could care less if some pervert wants to sleep with his dog, keeps them off the kids.   Child rapists are the lowest of the low in my book.   I think bestiality is just disgusting, but could care less if they legalize it.  I don't consider animals people (hell I kill and eat them) so if some sicko wants to have sex with one, more power to him, just leave my dog alone Pedophilea is a vile perversion that is much, much worse than simple bestiality.

I meant that as an investigator or computer support person, the worst types of pictures to trip over by accident are bestiality pics. I worked on a machine that had been taken over by a trojan and was being used to house pictures of a woman who was....err......umm......doing............stuff..............with a horse.

That's the kind of thing that can make you contemplate suicide.

Quoted: Child porn needs to go

Here is the problem that investigaters are becoming concerned about, computer graphics that are so real they are almost lifelike. These sickos will be able to create images that look like child porn but will not be pics of actual real existing children.

good bust, but I don't like the idea of computer repair people snooping all over the computer.  They have no business searching for files, including financial data and love letters, as described in the article unless it's part of the repair job.  Wonder how many of them snoop just to get data so they can use themself for identity theft or to sell to identity theives?

Quoted: good bust, but I don't like the idea of computer repair people snooping all over the computer.  They have no business searching for files, including financial data and love letters, as described in the article unless it's part of the repair job.  Wonder how many of them snoop just to get data so they can use themself for identity theft or to sell to identity theives?

*Typical repair customer*

My laptop is all fouled up, and I have important financial information and some important pictures on it! Can you save them??

The first rule of trying to fix busted computers is SAVE THE USER'S IMPORTANT DATA. That requires actually interacting with the data in some fashion.

It isn't "snooping".

Quoted: Quoted: good bust, but I don't like the idea of computer repair people snooping all over the computer.  They have no business searching for files, including financial data and love letters, as described in the article unless it's part of the repair job.  Wonder how many of them snoop just to get data so they can use themself for identity theft or to sell to identity theives? *Typical repair customer* My laptop is all fouled up, and I have important financial information and some important pictures on it! Can you save them?? The first rule of trying to fix busted computers is SAVE THE USER'S IMPORTANT DATA. That requires actually interacting with the data in some fashion. It isn't "snooping".

You know snooping has to go on though.  I mean I would, why wouldn't others!

Considering we have had members take up for registered sex offenders and child abusers in the last few days, I am waiting for someone to tell us why kiddie porn is no one else's business.

i do computer repair.  lucky i have never seen child pornography.   alot of porno, drag, and faggotry.  


i have been blessed

Quoted: You know snooping has to go on though.  I mean I would, why wouldn't others!

Because contrary to what you might think, I have better things to do than fix your laptop, and I really don't give a good gosh darn what you have on it. I just want to fix it, and get on with my life.

Someone ought to buy this guy a beer.

Quoted: Considering we have had members take up for registered sex offenders and child abusers in the last few days, I am waiting for someone to tell us why kiddie porn is no one else's business.

I'm waiting for the pro-druggies' famous  line  applied to child pornography: "What harm can looking at a little kiddie porn in my garage cause?"

Quoted: Work vice sometime.  You'll never look at a frozen chicken the same way again.

Quoted: Quoted: Work vice sometime.  You'll never look at a frozen chicken the same way again. shopuncleharrys.dukestores.duke.edu/images/mac%20&%20cheese%20004.jpg

Please explain.

Quoted: Please explain.

Your life is immesurably better for not knowing.

Quoted: Quoted: Please explain. Your life is immesurably better for not knowing.

The whole chicken?

There was the time I ran across some kiddie porn bookmarks while de-spywareifying this dude's computer. I'm tossing everything up on our servers so we can nuke and rebuild the machine, and the IE favorites directory listing comes scrolling by.

Gay porn, gay porn (look around, realize that photo of him with his buddy is actually him and his partner; notice the *extensive* gay literature collection - whatever, it's academia - more gay porn (what a sicko - this is his work computer we're talking about). I don't think I should make a case out of it, I've seen other people keep their jobs after getting caught so I don't think its' my place to snoop.

Then the beastiality and kiddie porn titles come flying by. WHOA! WTF?

I politely excuse myself, say I need to grab another recovery cd, and report to my boss.

Uh boss... need to talk to you in private. Look up on the ftp in this user's bookmarks......yea....

Goto his boss.

Show me....., you sure that's what it is? Open it up.(d0h)

Double click...aaugh! Okay, I believe you, get that shit off my computer.

We dragged it in, had people do a forensic survey (the PC being university property, we were well within our rights). They concluded the offensive links were a result of the spyware that he got from his other leisurely browsing, but that the porn was his fault. Still, they couldn't kick him out for it as he didn't technically violate any policy (and I suppose his sexuality made it difficult to fire him). (I have no faith in my school). He was, however, quietly removed some weeks later.

Quoted: Quoted: Can you imagine what would have happened if they saw pics of the gun collections that some of us have? He definitely did the right thing. Hello police? This is Bob Fooberman at Fooberman Computer Repair. I have a laptop here that is loaded with pictures of weapons. What kind of weapons? Guns. Lots and lots of guns. What kind? There appear to be a lot of handguns and a bunch of bigger guns too...Some of them look like M-16s. You are sending an officer by to take a look? Great. *Officer walks in* Are these the pictures you called about citizen Fooberman? Okay....lets see......Bushmaster AR-15, M1 Garand, Walther PP handgun.......All this stuff is legal. Yes, seriously. There are no laws against owning firearms or pictures of firearms. All these gun pictures are perfectly legal. Have a nice day, citizen Fooberman. *Officer leaves* I imagine that's pretty much how it would go. Except the police probably wouldn't go that far in checking things out. See, owning and posessing firearms isn't a crime. Neither is posessing pictures of firearms. Kiddie porn pictures, on the other hand, ARE a crime to own or posess, and merely finding them on a computer is probable cause to begin a criminal investigation.

Cops are a lot dumber then they apear to be.

Nobody can really prove who put a file on a computer and when.  For all anyone knows, the file could have been placed there by the computer geek fixing the computer.  Don't BS me about dates in the file properties.  I wasn't born yesterday.  

Quoted: Nobody can really prove who put a file on a computer and when.  For all anyone knows, the file could have been placed there by the computer geek fixing the computer.  Don't BS me about dates in the file properties.  I wasn't born yesterday.

You'd be amazed how many bad guys don't know this and cave when confronted by the truth. Add in some ISP logs and/or credit card usage at kiddie porn site and, blam, you've got a pretty good case.

ETA: execute search warrant and find the DVDs in the guys house ...

Quoted: Nobody can really prove who put a file on a computer and when.  For all anyone knows, the file could have been placed there by the computer geek fixing the computer.  Don't BS me about dates in the file properties.  I wasn't born yesterday.

Jurisprudence on the issue disagrees with your conclusions.

Quoted: Nobody can really prove who put a file on a computer and when.  For all anyone knows, the file could have been placed there by the computer geek fixing the computer.  Don't BS me about dates in the file properties.  I wasn't born yesterday.

Yeah, but possession's 99% of the law so the phrase goes.  If it's your computer, your porn, it's yours! Control your computer!

Quoted: Quoted: Considering we have had members take up for registered sex offenders and child abusers in the last few days, I am waiting for someone to tell us why kiddie porn is no one else's business. I'm waiting for the pro-druggies' famous  line  applied to child pornography: "What harm can looking at a little kiddie porn in my garage cause?"

Instead, wait for a rational metaphor to pop into your empty head. Use the extra time to memorize Gilligan's Island scripts.

Quoted: Quoted: Can you imagine what would have happened if they saw pics of the gun collections that some of us have? He definitely did the right thing. Hello police? This is Bob Fooberman at Fooberman Computer Repair. I have a laptop here that is loaded with pictures of weapons. What kind of weapons? Guns. Lots and lots of guns. What kind? There appear to be a lot of handguns and a bunch of bigger guns too...Some of them look like M-16s. You are sending an officer by to take a look? Great. *Officer walks in* Are these the pictures you called about citizen Fooberman? Okay....lets see......Bushmaster AR-15, M1 Garand, Walther PP handgun.......All this stuff is legal. Yes, seriously. There are no laws against owning firearms or pictures of firearms. All these gun pictures are perfectly legal. Have a nice day, citizen Fooberman. *Officer leaves* I imagine that's pretty much how it would go. Except the police probably wouldn't go that far in checking things out. See, owning and posessing firearms isn't a crime. Neither is posessing pictures of firearms. Kiddie porn pictures, on the other hand, ARE a crime to own or posess, and merely finding them on a computer is probable cause to begin a criminal investigation.

Go to your local Borders or other major book store and go to the photography section. Now look up any book by Sally Mann, Jock Sturges, or David Hamilton.

It's perfectly legal; you just have to be an "artist" to get away with it.

Quoted: Quoted: PC service is one thing i DO NOT miss. I am not a bashful person and i have seen sexual shit on peoples computer that made me want to hurl. there are some VERY sick peolpe in this world. Yes there are. Bestiality has to be the worst.

Did any of y'all hear Rush talk about the guy who died from having a ruptured colin after he paid someone to have a horse pork him in the cornhole?  OUCH!

Quoted: Quoted: PC service is one thing i DO NOT miss. I am not a bashful person and i have seen sexual shit on peoples computer that made me want to hurl. there are some VERY sick peolpe in this world. Yes there are. Bestiality has to be the worst.

Child porn is the worst.

Quoted: Yeah, but possession's 99% of the law so the phrase goes.  If it's your computer, your porn, it's yours! Control your computer!

It isn't merely posession.

Judges who don't know anything about technology might be swayed by the arguement stated, but most judges will not be persuaded by such arguements.

Computer investigators are trained in gathering forensic evidence from a computer, and go about it in such a fashion as to demonstrate pretty conclusively who was responsible for the content on a machine.

Quoted: Go to your local Borders or other major book store and go to the photography section. Now look up any book by Sally Mann, Jock Sturges, or David Hamilton. It's perfectly legal; you just have to be an "artist" to get away with it.

That's a whole different discussion, but you are preaching to the choir on that one....

If it was anything other than kiddie porn, I MIGHT have a problem with that.


You hire them to fix your computer, not preach how you should live your life.

But seeing as I have a younger brother who was molested when we were young, I say fuck him.....

That's about as sick as it gets.....  Wanna fuck a sheep ?  Have at it, I couldn't care less.  But children ?!

I hope the cocksucker and his wife burn in hell, and get all the 'porn' they want, in the Pen.