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Posted: 3/10/2001 4:37:49 PM EDT
You cant destroy your own property in the heat of an argument...  It's a crime and punishable by law..   A guy just got arrested on cops fox 26 for domestic abuse..  and malicious mischief...  he had a verbal argument with his wife..  He threw his own lantern and broke it against the wall...  he was arrested...  

The cop said you cant "destruct" your own property in the heat of an argument...   is that even a word?

So I guess this is why Richard Pryer got arrested for shooting his car after he got in an argument with his wife huh?

Link Posted: 3/10/2001 4:51:50 PM EDT
Well that part of cops was up in Pierce County, Washington.  But down here in Texas there is a lil section in the Penal Code Sec. 28.04: Reckless Damage or Destruction
  a.  A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, he recklessly damages or destroys property of the owner
  b.  An offense under this section is a Class C Misdemeanor

The chapter right beneath it says, "It is no defense to prosecution under this chapter that the actor has an interest in the property damaged or destroyed if another person also has an interest that the actor is not entitled to infringe.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 4:56:28 PM EDT
I saw that BS...it's pretty lame when you can't even damage your own property. Theoretically if you busted a pencil while in the heat of an argument, the a-hole nazis could arrest you for domestic violence. Incredible.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 5:02:47 PM EDT
Well, the offense I listed above is not considered family violence.  

Hey Rikwriter...keep in mind that these clips are edited and they don't show the whole thing.  I'm willing to bet there is more to the story than you saw.  Maybe you should soak in all the information and make sure you have a complete story before you judge all us a$$hole nazis!!!!!!!!  
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 5:04:22 PM EDT
Not a crime where I live!
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 6:40:12 PM EDT
Sparky 315,

Where do you live?
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 6:50:05 PM EDT
In typical fashion, this cop thought he was a lawyer and in reality does not know what he is talking about.  I saw it.  He meant to say that even though he had an interest in the property, because it is 1/2 his wife's, he could use the above cited PC.

This cop is typical of the type that siezes a Mini 14 and calls it an Ak-47.

I remember one undercover cop in NY city on Cops takes a .357 off a suspect, and upon examining the rounds he says, "Look, hollowpoints, everyone knows these are designed to penetrate bullet proof vests."

Dumb.  And there he goes with the Hollywood myths.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 6:57:58 PM EDT
Along those lines, Masaad Ayoob wrote, "no cops have been killed by 'cop-killer' bullets."
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 7:11:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 7:32:28 PM EDT
Hey Rikwriter...keep in mind that these clips are edited and they don't show the whole thing.  I'm willing to bet there is more to the story than you saw.  Maybe you should soak in all the information and make sure you have a complete story before you judge all us a$$hole nazis!!!!!!!!  
View Quote

First off, it doesn't matter what else that guy did if the officer was correct about the nature of the law---it's still an incredibly stupid and indefensible law, if it is true as stated.
Secondly, who's "us?"
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 10:32:31 PM EDT
My father is a Deputy/Sargeant in IN and he once responded to a call from a woman saying her husband was tearing their house down.  Upon arriving at the scene my father walked over to the man and asked him to stop at which point the man showed my father his constuction lic and demolition permit for the property in question.  The man stated that he had built her the dream house she wanted and she sure as hell was not going to get it in the divorce and was perfectly willing to pay her for half the value if she won in court.  My father was powerless to stop him so he sat back and watched with a smile as the man dozed his house while his wifed screamed and cried.  Guess maybe she will think twice about cheating on her next husband.

Score one for the GOOD GUYS.

Link Posted: 3/11/2001 4:20:54 AM EDT
A few weeks ago in Sacto,CA----Cops respond to call of man whoopin ass on his car.Cops tell man to stop---he raises hand---Cops Tazer then shoot him. Man dies---had cellphone in hand. Fun & Games with NAACP and Sacto City Police now...
Link Posted: 3/11/2001 6:56:42 AM EDT
Just more evidence of the police state in which we live, guilty intil proven innocent, when in doubt, haul 'em in. And too many cops now a days are absolutely convinced they're right and those they encounter on the street are either full of s**t or criminals.

Did you hear in the second segment of COPS where some Florida city police were rousting a john? Questioning him regarding his having a "legitimate purpose" to be driving the road he was on.  That should speak for itself, when did we give away our right to free movement? I don't agree with prostitution but the legitimate purpose scam to get the guy scared is crap. Worse than that, they pull that crap in court and the judges allow it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2001 7:00:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2001 7:16:43 AM EDT
Seems that suporting your point is a "legitimate" reason in and of itself, as a concerned citizen.
Link Posted: 3/11/2001 7:36:24 AM EDT
drive around and around the same 4 block area, as long as there are no "cruising" ordinances, which are another subject, and with camcorder firmly in hand see how many times you get told by the LEO's that you have no legitimate purpose to be where you want to be. I've been tempted too after hearing of that kind of crap to go trolling.

Leave no pot unstirred!
Link Posted: 3/11/2001 7:43:20 AM EDT
My father-in-law, a retired city fireman, told about responding to a car fire.  After they put the fire out they questioned the owner who was sitting on his porch with a gas can.  He said that the car had given all kinds of trouble and he was tired of it, so he torched it.  He owned it out right and showed them that he had canceled the insurance so he was not trying to collect.  The only thing he got was a ticket for burning inside the city limits.
Link Posted: 3/11/2001 2:24:39 PM EDT
Ammo = my property = spent one round at a time!
Link Posted: 3/11/2001 5:06:09 PM EDT
I saw that show too - and thought it was odd.  But what I found EVEN stranger was the segment with the guy in the acura who was pulled over becaue he just picked up a prostitute.  It turns out that they couldn't charge him with anything, because the prostitute had apparently asked him for a ride, and they hadn't gotten down to agreeing on a deal for a "date" yet.

What bothered me was the cop telling the guy that he had "no legitimate reason" to be in that part of town.  What kind of BULL is that?!?  If he committed a crime, charge him, but don't tell anyone where they have a right to drive their car or not.  

I completely understand that these cops want to keep people from coming down into the bad neighborhoods to buy crack and pick up ho's - but it seems a little to far to tell people that they have no legitimate reason to be in a certain part of town.  That's the kind of thing that makes me want to drive over to East St. Louis in my Volvo Stationwagon at 3:00 AM just to prove that I DO have the right to drive whereever I damn well please - even if I have no legimtimate reason to be there.
View Quote

Yeah.. that bothered me too... The prostitute was pretty nice looking and seemed like she had a head on her shoulders...  too bad she's messed up with crack... she openly admitted that she was a drug whore basically..  what a shame.. [:(]  

Link Posted: 3/11/2001 11:33:30 PM EDT
Anybody with access to a copy of the DSM-IV (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV) should spend some time reviewing it with this thread in mind.

This is the manual the shrinks use for classifying YOUR PROBLEM.  

I looked through it (or a previous version) a few years ago.  Of course, "danger to self and others" was seen as a real problem.

But also destruction of property (anyone's, even your own) was mentioned as one indication
you need help.

In the good old PRK and other states, you can easily be an involuntary guest for observation purposes (72 hrs in CA).  

Display a seriously incorrect attitude with the right peron in L.E., medicine, etc. and you can rack up enough points before you know it.

Fabrications or exaggerations by family members or associates can help a lot in this regard....

Case in point (years ago) - a physician at a local hospital got into a heated argument with other staff members (over internal politics, I believe) and found himself restrained at another facility based on the statements of those around him.

There are times when these confinements are called for, but they're also fertile ground for abuse.

Notice how many kinds of previously acceptable behavior are now psychologically stigmatized?

Oh yeah, and how many kinds of previously deviant behavior are now OK, encouraged, even?

To one person, smashing that framed picture of your ex-to-be, or putting your fist through the drywall might be expected at times.  

To someone else, dedicated to finding a disorder, it could be taken as a sign they need to take lots of notes, so they can get you the help you need so badly (denial? another sign).

Link Posted: 3/12/2001 4:38:34 AM EDT
drive around and around the same 4 block area, as long as there are no "cruising" ordinances, which are another subject, and with camcorder firmly in hand see how many times you get told by the LEO's that you have no legitimate purpose to be where you want to be. I've been tempted too after hearing of that kind of crap to go trolling.
View Quote

Really?  Wait until [i]you[/i] live in an area where a bunch of over-sexed and under-brained 19 year old know it alls come to en masse in a competition to look as stupid as possible while making as much noise as possible.  Wait until it makes [i]you[/i] a prisoner in your own goddamn neighborhood so it takes a half of a fucking hour to move three blocks.

I say if you're caught cruising where you shouldn't be, go to jail.
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 5:37:38 AM EDT

My first response to your statement was 'Fvck you!' But after pondering for a couple minutes, my response is now 'FVCK YOU!!!!'

I've never responded to a post like I have above. But this really did it!

Prisoner? Poor baby! Ever hear of 'Neighborhood Watch'? Or how about Ryder moving trucks?

No, it's easier to step on somebody elses rights when things don't go your way than it is to expend some effort on your own part.  

Sorry keyboard, the pounding's over.
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 5:50:39 AM EDT
I agree with Older Crow...go to hell, Cible...or to China, which is where you sound like you would prefer to live.
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 6:13:19 AM EDT
Destroying your own stuff while arguing with the wife, or your significant other is being considered domestic violence. When the police arrest someone for it, it is becasue that person demonstrated a propensity for violence towards the other spouse. Even if the item broken was done out of frustration. Same goes for punching walls, kicking the side of the car, doing terrible things to the dog with a fork, etc. Even if you never lay a hand on the other person in the home, it's mental abuse because it creates fear in the person.

In Florida, the law states the police can arrest, if they believe that violence has occured, or is likely to occur or continue if an arrest is not made. This goes for both parties involved, and there have been many cases of both hubby and wife going to jail for hitting each other, even though the fight was "mutual combat". This then leads to those lovely domestic violence injunctions that brand you for the rest of your life and make it so you have to surrender all your guns and can't buy any more.

If you think it's the cops who are getting over zealous with the arrest, think again. The law in Florida is very strict. It basically leaves little room for discretion on the part of the police. The law states if they can make an arrest, they WILL make the arrest. The law goes so far as to state that if an arrest is not made, the officer must articulate why it wasn't in a written report. This means basically, they couldn't locate the bad person, because the guy or gal ran away from the scene. Then they are directed to refer charges to the State for prosecution and the state will issue a warrant for the person if they see fit. It's called "The Prefered Response to Domestic Violence" by the state. And if the wife or significate other happens to get a injunction issued (which isn't hard) don't even think about going near that person until the injuction expires, or is recinded by a judge. Even if you and the wife decide you want to work things out, you can still go to jail for violating the injunction if you go home or invite her over to your new abode. If she calls you and says she wants to let the whole thing drop, don't get close until you know the injuction is invalid. You can can go to jail for her comming to you and you letting her in. (There are cases where the wife has gone over to hubby's new place under the pretense of making up, and then saying he violated the order.)

We can all thank Mr. O.J. Simpson for many of the changes taking place. Not that he was the first guy to beat his wife and spark the debate over domestic violence.  But he was the guy who made the most headlines over it and it caused a lot of reactions in legislatures to change the laws, so they wouldn't have it happen again.

You can still smash, break, mutilate, pulverize your own stuff all you want, long as it's not done during or because of a fight with the Mrs.
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 6:22:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 7:56:27 AM EDT

I couldn't agree with you more when it comes to responsibility! My issue is with Cible's willingness to step on 'our' rights in order to solve his problem.

I convinced my parents to move from the house I grew up in due to the scum moving into the area. After over forty years at the same address, needless to say they were reluctant. But a couple of incidents occurred which gave substance to my warnings. They now reside in a great neighborhood, newer, larger home and couldn't be happier.

In my neighborhood, my neighbors and I take responsibility for our environment and pay close attention to each others property. Yes, we've had a couple of minor incidents but we also aided in busting up a burglery ring.

As said before, your rights stop at my nose.

Just my .03 FRN.

Ed Sr., I'll be good now!
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 8:13:13 AM EDT
...on the other hand, if you're smashing and breaking stuff, in a violent rage, as a way to terrify your loved one or spouse....
...then you are a dirt-bag.

If your response is, "well, it's better than hitting her!"
You're still a dirt-bag.
Terroristic menacing of your loved ones is not nice.

It's what weak cowardly little men do, though.
Link Posted: 3/12/2001 9:04:26 AM EDT
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