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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 7/18/2001 10:48:23 AM EDT
Ok here is the situation. You are camping in the deep woods. You go on a trail to see some sights with your wife and daughter behind you. All of a sudden, around the corner, about 40 yards ahead, you see 3 baby bear cubs. Right behind them is a huge mama Grizzly bear. The mama bear is surprised by you, and begins growling ferociously and then starts a charge right at you. The bear is bearing down on you and your wife and daughter behind you who are crying. In this situation, would you rather have: A) A 9mm pistol B) .45 pistol Both handguns have a 10 round magazine.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 10:54:32 AM EDT
C. Flame Thrower
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 10:56:31 AM EDT
Oh, brother. This is ridiculous, but I'll bite. Neither. The 9mm isn't exactly known for working well on people. It'd just annoy a grizzly bear. The .45acp works fine on people, but it's no bear caliber. Hell, it doesn't work worth anything on [i]deer[/i]. It would just annoy the grizzy as well. If you're looking for a bear gun, pick up a .44 magnum, a .480, a .50ae, etc. Wrong cartridges, [b]etron[/b]. Mike
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:02:40 AM EDT
D) 12 guage shotgun loaded with 3" magnum slugs. ...but given your parameters, I'd have to go with the 9mm if I could load it with 124gr NATO FMJ. A .45 ACP couldn't be relied on to penetrate deeply enough (the 9mm wouldn't be much better). Either way you're done. Tell your wife and daughter to run in hopes that they get far enough away safely before the grizzly finishes with you.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:03:33 AM EDT
I would pick the .45. People have been thrown 3 feet off of the ground and spun around in the air after being shot in the pinky by a .45. If you did a headshot on the bear it would flip over backwards just like those toy dogs.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:08:26 AM EDT
Gentlemen, In the proposed United Nations plan you would not be allowed near the Grizzly bear and her cubs. All parks would have a buffer zone around them to prevent human incursion. And all parks would be designated wilderness areas with minimal human access. However, if in the unlikely event you were attacked by a bear, my advisors tell me that you should not resist. The bear will leave you after you are no longer a threat to it's cubs. The occurances of a Grizzly actually consuming human flesh are somewhat rare. Thank you.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:16:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:18:22 AM EDT
Pepperspray Mother bear is only protecting her cubs. But if your asking which is better then I choose the .45ACP
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:19:27 AM EDT
45acp +P+ Penetrator Core, loaded HOT!
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:27:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2001 11:24:53 AM EDT by guns762]
You are dead already, you would want the .45 IMO. It will put your wife down faster and hopefully you won't miss when you put it too your own head. Maybe your daughter won't be attacked. Neither of these calibers is anywhere near sufficient to deal with a grizzly. If you got a very, very, very lucky first shot.... she might stop and go the other way. BTW, at 40yds, you won't get off all 10 shots anyway. By the time you get your gun pulled and pointed, you might get 2-3 shots off before she would be on ya. Grizzly medicine= bear spray, .44mag-min, shotgun-better, .338wm-my choice. guns762
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:37:30 AM EDT
I would want the Holy Hand Grenade. Just have to make sure to count to three.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:38:28 AM EDT
37mm with flash round or tear gas round, preferably the flash round. A bear that can't see you is a bear that can't hurt you.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:42:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wobblin Goblin: I would want the Holy Hand Grenade. Just have to make sure to count to three.
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Three!! Hell, she would have swallowed your hand and the grenade in three! One-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-CRUNCH!!!! guns762
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:51:47 AM EDT
Throw your daughter to the bear...she is probably more tender and better tasting, buying you enough time to get away. When you go into the woods, you should always take someone who can't run as fast as you.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:57:40 AM EDT
Good Strategy Chimborazo [thinking]
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:58:27 AM EDT
If it's a grizzly your lookin at, it better be a .45 Winmag with 300 grain slugs. Any thing less than a .41 mag is suicide.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:59:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762:
Originally Posted By Wobblin Goblin: I would want the Holy Hand Grenade. Just have to make sure to count to three.
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Three!! Hell, she would have swallowed your hand and the grenade in three! One-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-CRUNCH!!!! guns762
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According to Monty Python, thou mayest count to two only if thou then proceedest to three. Five...is right out. Neither shalt thou count to four.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:03:36 PM EDT
First no grizzly bear has ever busted into my house, what makes you think I would go bustin into their's? The caliber doesn't matter in this case you yell to the SO's, so they'll run then shoot yourself so that you don't feel the bear eating you. Honestly, the bear will only care that you leave, quiet back pedal, and a change of clothes.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:08:53 PM EDT
A belt fed 12GA shotgun with alternating penetrator slugs and 00 buck, kept at ready position the entire hike.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:15:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2001 12:18:22 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Yo, fuck grizzly bears Most of the US dont even have them anymore. But if you live in the western states, watch out for Mountain Lion. Since so few places allow them to be hunted, they once again have started to see people as food. They will stalk anything smaller than they are. They think children make good targets, so watch your daughter. Loud noise does scare them, if you spot them first scream at them and fire gunshots in their general direction and they will go away. Last weekend, one walked into a subdivision in Kingman AZ and couldnt find her way out again, the police had to shoot her after she threatened some people and tried to get into a house. Poor thing was a adult, yet weighed only 30 pounds, less than half what she should. Here in AZ we have to be careful about shooting Mountain Lion, there have been reports of Jaguar sightings along the border. Jaguars are on the world wide endangerd speicies list. Its a crime just to let your dogs chase one. Needless to say the cat hunters arent amused, nor are the shepherds and cattlemen.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:26:16 PM EDT
stay in the city where its bear safe, you only have to worry about crack heads and gang members. then take either gun, they both will be sufficient..there problem solved
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:30:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Last weekend, one walked into a subdivision in Kingman AZ and couldnt find her way out again, the police had to shoot her after she threatened some people and tried to get into a house.
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What a waste... a tranquilaser would have been better if the animal wasnt about to eat somebody and you had a couple minutes to spare.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:31:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NO-AR-:(: First no grizzly bear has ever busted into my house, what makes you think I would go bustin into their's? Honestly, the bear will only care that you leave, quiet back pedal, and a change of clothes.
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Uhhh, friend had one in his dumpster couple of years ago. Every! Time I go into the mountains around my area, I have the chance to walk into the middle of the above scenario. If you get between a ma and her cubs, and she sees you, you are not going to just back pedal, and change your shorts. You will be lucky if they are still in the same place you put them on. If you make enough noise walking in the woods, most often the bears will hear you and not let themselves get in the above scenario either. guns762
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:40:22 PM EDT
ETRON, I want a .45! What would you choose?
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:40:43 PM EDT
Well yes, but if I was planning what to do in case of bear attack, I'd also have to plan how to spend my winnings when I won the lottery. Guess which one is more likely? I wouldn't have time for walks if I had to do all that planning. And I do believe the response to wild animals is to stay away from them. It is a very bad question...9mm or .45 in case of grizzly attack. The most likely outcome would be the bear breaks some teeth when it bit off you arm and tries to chew the hand still holding the gun. I still stand by the "they don't break into my house" statement. And you are right when you say the bear don't wanna be around you. As far as the bear in the dumpster, he was just looking for "fast food" admit it you've wanted some fast food from time to time. It wasn't like he was hunting yuppies for sport.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:48:01 PM EDT
I'll bite too. In your situation I would be a draw but I would try head and neck shots. In both military and police studies as well as balistics test the .45 does have more stopping power in FMJ and hollow point form but only 3-7% more stopping power. But since I'm more comfortable with the 9mm and can make quicker follow up shots with it it is even to me. BUT, in the real world my Glock 19 hold 15 and your 1911 holds 7 and I would take my Glock anyday.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:51:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2001 12:49:43 PM EDT by MOLITAS]
Well judging by some of these posts one could conclude that caliber is the defining parameter in killing a large bear.FACT:The second largest Brown Bear ever killed in Alaska was shot with a .22LR single shot rifle by an old Inuit woman.She waited until the bear was close enough to place the muzzle behind it's ear and fired,of course this was not an enraged charging bear but it proves that shot placement is a factor in terminating any quarry.I would opt for the 9mm,hoping that I had FMJ ammo and that the increased velocity would give me a better chance of penetrating to a vital organ.All things considered I wouldn't want to be in this predicament.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:56:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 2:34:06 PM EDT
I've got one more story for ya about hunting elk two years ago. I shot my elk the first morning. On the way down from packing the elk back to camp on horseback, we see fresh grizz tracks on top of our own tracks. There was already 4 inches of snow that had come down that afternoon, so they only could be a few hours old, if that. It was getting dark. My dad and I are exhausted. The hill is so steep coming down, the horses lose their packs(saddle panyards) over their necks right when we get to the crick. We get the packs back on the horses and walk back to camp. I was completely covered in elk blood. We had packed light that year(never again), and the backpackers tent was almost buried. We hung the quarters in the trees as far up as we could on the game pole, and crawled into our tent. The stove wouldn't light. The lantern wouldn't light, either! I took off my elk blood soaked clothing and crawled in my sleeping bag. Clothing hung under a tree out side my tent. I never have slept so light; and with my .44mag under my pillow and my .338 next to my bag. We had 18" of snow the next morning. We used to not have to worry too much about grizz around that area, not anymore. That grizzly could have easily made a meal out of me stinking so much of elk. They are a serious consideration for anyone who spends much time in the mountains around here. guns762
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 2:51:48 PM EDT
Hell, make your wife and daughter stay there, and HALL YOUR ASS OUTTA THERE!!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:18:05 PM EDT
Ideally, the wife would have the 45 and the daughter would have the 9 so they could hold the bear off while I hot footed it home to fetch the 375 H&H.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:27:23 PM EDT
Glock 29 10mm. In lieu of .458 Lott 500gr. Barnes X bullet.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 3:45:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2001 3:42:37 PM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Originally Posted By guns762: we see fresh grizz tracks on top of our own tracks. There was already 4 inches of snow that had come down that afternoon, so they only could be a few hours old, if that. I was completely covered in elk blood. We had packed light that year(never again), and the backpackers tent was almost buried. I never have slept so light; and with my .44mag under my pillow and my .338 next to my bag. We had 18" of snow the next morning. We used to not have to worry too much about grizz around that area, not anymore. That grizzly could have easily made a meal out of me stinking so much of elk. They are a serious consideration for anyone who spends much time in the mountains around here. guns762
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EDITED BY NO-AR-:( (for brevity) Yes and I would say that if he had wanted you you would have been a bear kabob. What you said about bears not liking humans also comes into play. Yes you should be aware of bears if you are in "bear country". And I am not trying to flame you nor do I want to be flamed. But the original question was AndrseUsaN like and I was having fun with it. I also think SGB has a point the bear/cub charge would most likely be a "bluff". If you respect the bear you'll have less problems. Whether you have a 9mm or a .45 is really still just away to make yourself feel better, the bear will probably be curious about the noise and what is tickling it (the bullets), and it will make you feel useful in the last seconds of your life to be doing something.......Since neither one will stop a bear.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 4:18:02 PM EDT
First off, I don't give a damn if an animal is endangered, protected or any of this other crap. If it threatens me or my family, I'll blow its head off. Now as for the round, Neither. In fact, I wouldn't use a handgun at all if possible. How about a Revolver using AK (7.62mm) ammunition. They exist (Russian Nagant.) An M-60 with a full belt would be my first choice. Just pull the trigger and hold it tight until there is nothing left of that bear. A CAR-15 or M4 might do the job.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 6:31:23 PM EDT
Not sure where you fella's hike, but the Parks I visit have strict no guns policy. In my world, I'm more threatened by the "good guys", who seek to disarm me, than the animals that I might be able to fend off with an illigal arm. Land of the Free, eh?
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 10:12:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2001 10:08:55 PM EDT by Wadman]
cc48510, Are you suggesting that a Russian Nagant Model 1895 Revolver is chambered for 7.62x39 ammunition? The same as an AK-47? [img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/Wadman/Nagant.jpg[/img] Also, assuming this thread was even remotely serious, I'm not sure how many folks go camping with a belt fed fully automatic machinegun. I won't even get into the CAR/M4 thing. BTW, aren't you the same fellow who replied in the "Would soldiers carry multiple AR uppers" thread that you would carry a rifle, a subgun (for spraying), many grenades, 3 "assault" pistols, and multiple spare mags, silencers, and laser pointers(?) for each weapon?
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 10:33:53 PM EDT
I'm not making this up. My boss is leaving on a hiking trip. He's taking a pistol in case he runs into bears or weirdos. A 9mm.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 10:42:09 PM EDT
OK, I'll take the 10 round .45 but only if it is a Wilson mag. Lots of junk 10s out there.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:19:55 PM EDT
One of these [img]http://www.birdman.org/images/m82pistbig.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:54:11 PM EDT
Knew a bloke in Regina, Saskatchewan, in Canada. he wwas a geologist and was attacked by a grizzly in the far north. All though he took a terrible mauling, he pumped 6 shots of .357 magnum into the creature, and the bear fucked off 'at the high port' back into the bush, and was found dead in a creek near by. Rick, if you read this you are one lucky bloke. He still carries the news paper cutting in his wallet.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 12:22:15 AM EDT
Generally speaking, and not from experience: either way, you're f*cked. A charging bear would cover 40 yds before your pistol even cleared the holster. If cubs are present, it wouldn't be a bluff, either. That bear would be out to seriously f*ck you up. If you're walking in bear country, make a sh*tload of noise.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 12:57:16 AM EDT
The Glock would be a good choice. It is relatively smooth, so it would hurt less when the bear shoves it up your ass. [moon] [:D] For best results, remove the sights before you go out. [:D] [:D]
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 1:56:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MelonPopper: Generally speaking, and not from experience: either way, you're f*cked. A charging bear would cover 40 yds before your pistol even cleared the holster. If cubs are present, it wouldn't be a bluff, either. That bear would be out to seriously f*ck you up. If you're walking in bear country, make a sh*tload of noise.
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That would make you one sorry assed pistoleer. It would take a grizzly about 3 seconds to cover 40 yards, maybe more depending on terrain. It takes me about 1/2 second to clear the holster, clear the safety, and aquire. Front sight, big target, center mass of the front of a charging bear is generally head area, 230 grain SXTs. I'd take the .45, realizing that today is a good day to die. I just read a book written by an ex-Alaska bush officer. He knew a guide who carried a cut down Winchester 70 in .375HH, 20in bbl just for bear. Downside was that if you shot the bear, you would likely perish from recoil.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 6:39:34 AM EDT
I would take one of the baby bears hostage, point my .41 magnum at his cute head and back outta there, all the while telling mama bear, "You move an inch and I'll waste the little sucker!!" [:D] Reality? I'd console myself with the fact that I would be the WORST tasting meal that bear had ever had because I would THOROUGHLY soil myself.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 7:46:42 AM EDT
- Pray..... - And Run like Hell! Last one is a dead Meat!
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 8:02:46 AM EDT
I suppose I'd take a .45, but all I would need is 7 rounds anyway. With luck on my side, I MIGHT be able to pump 6 into the creature's skull. Then, while the beasts is still running towards me with 6 flattened bullets in their head, I would simply take the last round and insert it gently (read: at about 1000fps) into my own head. Wouldn't even feel a thing. [brown]Evil Jewbroni~[/brown]
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 8:17:10 AM EDT
I would hope to have my running shoes on because i would be hauling my ass out of there.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 8:39:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2001 8:50:47 AM EDT by gardenWeasel]
A few things overlooked so far : 1.Both pistols would hold eleven rounds. 2.You only can choose a 9mm or a .45 none of that other stuff. 3.No mention was made of any restriction on clothing choices soooooo.... ...... I'd be wearing my [i]Bear proof suit[/i] [img]http://www.nfb.ca/E/IMG/FILMS/grizzly/suit1.gif[/img] [url]http://thelonious.mit.edu/gman/[/url]
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 1:25:03 PM EDT
I would be more worried about getting BETWEEN a female bear and her cubs. The female want's only to protect her offsring. A solitary Bear might attack to EAT you if other food sources are depleted, is injured etc. If a bear attacks at night it probably wants to EAT You, because they usually hunt at night. A mother moose will stomp your ass dead too, if she thinks your a threat to her calf(ves). FWIW Doug
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 6:07:13 PM EDT
"Back packers, the other white meat."- Yogi
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 8:53:37 PM EDT
I'll pick the 45 out of the two you suggest but would prefer the 44mag or better if it were my choice.
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