Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 7/29/2009 2:41:58 PM EST
Seriously, there is nothing less impressive than the quality of some of the NCOs in today's Army. I think it is sad. Even during the Vietnam War, when most of the Army were draftees, the NCO Corp was still built of those who earned it and those who could kick the shit out of PoS Soldiers. I'm been serving in the Army 7 years and I see so many NCOs that shouldn't be Privates First Class, much less in charge of people.

The biggest joke in the Army currently is this "Year of the NCO" trash they keep trying to talk up. Frankly, our NCO Corp at its present state is weak. Senior NCOs need to be down on the line, at the lower levels, kicking junior NCO's asses and separating those that can't perform from the service, not trying to build morale by telling them they are something they are not through the false motivation of some dedicated year. Most NCOs today are too worried about befriending junior NCOs and young Soldiers and have forgotten the basic principles of discipline, hard work, and motivation.

Example: I have a PoS E1 Soldier and her criminal husband (both young 20s) who live below me. I live in a two apartment house in the country side of Germany, how this Soldier was able to even get into the lease is beyond me. For over a year and a half now they have tormented me and my family with a series of misconducts to include, but not limited to: threats, inappropriate sexual comments to my wife, possible attempt at arson, gross disrespect for my rank, bio-hazards, theft, destruction of property, etc. I've called the unit over 20 times, even went and talked to her Battalion CSM......nothing. In a year and a half, and with all my complaints, an NCO gave her a 48 hour warning to clean, came to inspect her quarters, and reported back to the command that there were no issues. That was the only time anyone ever came. I'm to the point now where I call the MPs because of the husband's threats and her first line NCO will come, stand by her side to comfort her, and not even acknowledge my presence as though I'm the criminal and the Soldier is her child she is protecting.

Sorry, I'm bitter as hell, just wrote two separate IG offices about this. Not all NCOs are bad. A lot of my good friends are NCOs. Most infantry and armor NCOs are squared away. But for the love of God, this kinder gentler Army crap is destroying us. Most of our young men didn't join the Army to be pampered, they wanted discipline and adventure. Weak NCOs lead to weak training, weak discipline, poor performance, and dead American boys and we can't let that happen. If you are an NCO reading this, please take it constructively.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 3:43:06 PM EST
You are combat arms - you know what soldiering is all about.
Combat Service Support units might not.

That pogue attitude of theirs filters all the way up to the senior NCO level.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 3:48:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/29/2009 3:50:41 PM EST by sabotUP]
Originally Posted By tnolley:
You are combat arms - you know what soldiering is all about.
Combat Service Support units might not.

That pogue attitude of theirs filters all the way up to the senior NCO level.


Indeed it does. Unfortunately there are more REMF senior officers and NCOs than combat arms and they are influencing decisions and attitudes about the "Soldier" life. I'm so disgusted right now with this unit and the NCOs that I can't believe we are in the same Army. I lead a mechanized company team in combat in Baghdad and now I'm neck to neck with an E1 that has never passed a PT test since she has been enlisted....
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 6:25:03 PM EST
The army isn't the only one with this problem. Most E-5's in the Air Force are just as bad. Most try to be all buddy buddy 24/7 and don't seem to realize that there is a time to b/s and a time to kick some @$$. It's almost sickening and makes it hard for us E-4's to figure out what our roll is! I mean, we're supposed to be in he middle of taking a leadership roll and here they are, the people who are supposed to lead us into this roll just figuring it out themselves! After 3-4 years as a NCO no less! *Rant...end*
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 6:47:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/29/2009 6:49:23 PM EST by rcatesbiana]
Originally Posted By sabotUP:
Even during the Vietnam War, when most of the Army were draftees, the NCO Corp was still built of those who earned it and those who could kick the shit out of PoS Soldiers.

It has NEVER been permissable for an NCO to strike a troop. Not in the whole history of the US, in any branch of the military.

The NCOs serving during the 60s were mostly brought it during the 50s. The majority of the WW II vets still serving were E-8s or E-9s, and didn't do a whole lot of hands on leading. The NCOs who were privates in 1950 were actually mostly non-combat vets who were black boot Army, not a whole lot different in experience or temperment from the people I served with during the 80s.

In the 80s a bad check or some other trivial bullshit could get you QMP'ed. Now, when the military is striving mightily to fill the ranks with whatever retards (literally), or felons, or similar discipline problem waiting to happen, you have the situation you described.

Sorry man, but you are just in at the wrong time. Wait a year. When the drawdown begins in earnest you will see people booted out left and right. This includes your problem couple. Get the paper trail started though, and take lots of video and photos.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 8:29:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By rcatesbiana:
Originally Posted By sabotUP:
Even during the Vietnam War, when most of the Army were draftees, the NCO Corp was still built of those who earned it and those who could kick the shit out of PoS Soldiers.

It has NEVER been permissable for an NCO to strike a troop. Not in the whole history of the US, in any branch of the military.


I should have made myself more clear. I use the term "kick the shit out of" liberally. I don't mean to physically touch the Soldier, I meant stern discipline, counselings, loss of privilages, extra duty, etc.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 8:40:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By sabotUP:
Originally Posted By rcatesbiana:
Originally Posted By sabotUP:
Even during the Vietnam War, when most of the Army were draftees, the NCO Corp was still built of those who earned it and those who could kick the shit out of PoS Soldiers.

It has NEVER been permissable for an NCO to strike a troop. Not in the whole history of the US, in any branch of the military.


I should have made myself more clear. I use the term "kick the shit out of" liberally. I don't mean to physically touch the Soldier, I meant stern discipline, counselings, loss of privilages, extra duty, etc.




Am I wrong in assuming that basic field craft skills are required in every solider regardless of MOS? Those fighting holes aren't going to dig themselves ya know
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:43:39 AM EST
Now Now Carl, That practice may fly in the suck, "Every Marine a rifleman", but in sister services larger than ours that would be considered hazing.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 9:53:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 9:56:12 AM EST by bloodmoon]
Every job has scum bags in it be it the U.S Army, USMC, CIA, FBI and every police department in the country the Army s not special in regards to scum bags.

Every combat arms batt I have been a part of has scum bags who should not hold their rank of NCO. For the most part the majority of NCOs in combat arms are good NCOs. It really comes down to command. If there is a good COC, good 1st Sergeants and a good CSM then the problems with shit NCOs is small and corrects itself eventually.are small. In non combat arms you get what you create and pay for.


My question is who is letting these worthless NCOs through the board and PLDC. Thats where the shit NCOs come from the board and from PLDC. Is PLDC allowing sloppy and letting low speed high drag fucked up from the floor up NCOs.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 1:12:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By sabotUP:
Originally Posted By tnolley:
You are combat arms - you know what soldiering is all about.
Combat Service Support units might not.

That pogue attitude of theirs filters all the way up to the senior NCO level.


Indeed it does. Unfortunately there are more REMF senior officers and NCOs than combat arms and they are influencing decisions and attitudes about the "Soldier" life. I'm so disgusted right now with this unit and the NCOs that I can't believe we are in the same Army. I lead a mechanized company team in combat in Baghdad and now I'm neck to neck with an E1 that has never passed a PT test since she has been enlisted....


So counsel the Soldier, then recommend that she be separated. Don't blame combat support units and claim that they are all fucked up. I've seen plenty of combat arms NCO's relieved, court-martialed, etc.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 4:21:58 AM EST
It ain't all the NCOs fault.

Over the last ten years we've had most of our authority taken away. We can't even inspect barracks rooms without 24 hour notice anymore. And God forbid you use colorful language while correcting a Soldier.
Also at fault is the NCOES system. WLC is a complete joke, BNCOC isn't much better, and I can't speak for ANCOC since I haven't been. What kind of NCOs do you think you're going to get when you lower the standards of the training?

The promotion system is a giant clusterfuck. We send Soldiers to the board who have no buisness being an NCO. Why? Because we have to. We are told by the COC which Soldiers will attend the board. Unless you have a squared away counseling packet showing how fucked up he is, he's going. And of course the promotion board itself is a joke. If the SOldier has kissed enough ass, the senior NCos on the board will just push him through without asking any hard questions.

Then, once they have stripes, it's near impossible to take them away unless they blatantly violate the UCMJ. You can be as incompetent as you want and you have nothing to fear. The COC won't touch you.

OP, I feel your pain, I really do. But the best thing you can do is worry about YOUR Soldiers and showing them what right looks like.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 2:54:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2009 2:54:35 PM EST by RickNC]
My brother is active duty at Bragg. He often tells me of NCO's who are profiles and cannot or will not do PT. He tells me of leg NCO's in an airborne unit. He tells me of NCO's falling out of runs. I served from 95-03 and did serve some time in the same unit. That was not tolerated then.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 4:43:10 PM EST
Bunch of whiners in this thread. If you don't like something get some rank yourself and change it.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 8:55:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Trueweltall:
Bunch of whiners in this thread. If you don't like something get some rank yourself and change it.


This would require more TIG/TIS... I do hope you realize that one cannot simply "get some rank" in a matter of 6 months....
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:23:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By geneSW:
Originally Posted By Trueweltall:
Bunch of whiners in this thread. If you don't like something get some rank yourself and change it.


This would require more TIG/TIS... I do hope you realize that one cannot simply "get some rank" in a matter of 6 months....


So you've only been in 6 months? I'm also curious about the OP. What rank is he?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:30:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
Originally Posted By geneSW:
Originally Posted By Trueweltall:
Bunch of whiners in this thread. If you don't like something get some rank yourself and change it.


This would require more TIG/TIS... I do hope you realize that one cannot simply "get some rank" in a matter of 6 months....


So you've only been in 6 months? I'm also curious about the OP. What rank is he?


OP states 7 years in op. If he's was ARNG that would make him a SFC.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:38:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By ANIMUS:
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
Originally Posted By geneSW:
Originally Posted By Trueweltall:
Bunch of whiners in this thread. If you don't like something get some rank yourself and change it.


This would require more TIG/TIS... I do hope you realize that one cannot simply "get some rank" in a matter of 6 months....


So you've only been in 6 months? I'm also curious about the OP. What rank is he?


OP states 7 years in op. If he's was ARNG that would make him a SFC.


I ask about GeneSW b/c well...if you've only been in the AD Army 6 months,you need to STFU. Keep your mouth shut and your eyes open. You don't have enough time in the military to run your mouth about "Change." Typical know everything private is what you sound like. And considering you're avatar says that you're in AZ, you're probably not even AD. You want to make change? Then shut up, put some time in, become technically and tactically proficient, guide and mentor the younger soldiers (who are like you used to be - they know EVERYTHING and you can't tell them any different) and then you can run your suck about making change.

As far as the OP, I sincerely doubt he's a SFC in 7 years. Not a lot of people make 7 in 7. Its definitely done, but not by a lot. And usually not in the guard. But if I'm wrong, hey, ok. Based on his writing, IMO he's not a SFC or even an NCO. He can prove me wrong by sending me his AKO info. If I'm wrong, I will post publicly.

And back on topic, roger, there are many shitbag NCOs. Especially with so many being recently promoted well ahead of their time. They are not mature enough and it shows through their work ethic and actions. That being said, you can't lay everything at the NCO Corp's feet. We have our hands tied in more ways than you could guess. Recent examples: I was "talked" to b/c I smoked a soldier for his attitude and actions. The worst that I can do is make them write an essay. No shit. Another: We're finally chaptering out one of our shitbags. I have written 23 counselings on him (they're all on my comp. - I counted) and other NCO's have written more. I've never seen a packet like this. The only reason he's being chaptered is b/c he pissed of the BRIGADE commander. No one else would deal with him. I wouldn't have believed this if I hadn't seen and lived it myself.

But the OP is right about some things. I have seen situations like he is talking about and it hurts me. It wounds my professional pride and it hurts my love for the Army. Risk management and EO/PC shit is ruining the Army.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 5:17:54 AM EST
While I can understand the "you don't have the salt in your cammies to say anything bad about my Army" attitude, it doesn't change the fact that units rot from the top down, NOT the other way. I have seen it myself many times working with various units and services both US and foreign; most guys start out as hard chargers but slowing grow more and more slack in that environment. If you do maintain some semblance of discipline AND manage to get the seniority to fix things you will have to start with your peers; and that just does not work.

It's just human nature, the only way to fix these units is to move in a CO or CSM who A. wants to change things and B. is willing to jump feet first in SNCO ass to do it.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 11:36:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
Originally Posted By ANIMUS:
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
Originally Posted By geneSW:
Originally Posted By Trueweltall:
Bunch of whiners in this thread. If you don't like something get some rank yourself and change it.


This would require more TIG/TIS... I do hope you realize that one cannot simply "get some rank" in a matter of 6 months....


So you've only been in 6 months? I'm also curious about the OP. What rank is he?


OP states 7 years in op. If he's was ARNG that would make him a SFC.


I ask about GeneSW b/c well...if you've only been in the AD Army 6 months,you need to STFU. Keep your mouth shut and your eyes open. You don't have enough time in the military to run your mouth about "Change." Typical know everything private is what you sound like. And considering you're avatar says that you're in AZ, you're probably not even AD. You want to make change? Then shut up, put some time in, become technically and tactically proficient, guide and mentor the younger soldiers (who are like you used to be - they know EVERYTHING and you can't tell them any different) and then you can run your suck about making change.


I'd check your facts before going off like that. 3 years AD E-4 (Sra) in USAF already made plans to go career. I have trained Airmen in my AFSC, helped them become competant in the field so that they can do the job the right way, every time. I know my job TYVM. I've never failed an eval, only minor paperwork (hey, we're all human), and do volunteer work both with the community outside of the base and within the base. Oh, and for keeping my eyes open.... I've had 6 supervisors in the past 3 years.... some good, and some just pure crap.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 11:48:03 AM EST
so when you said 6 months, you were talking about....?
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 11:51:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
so when you said 6 months, you were talking about....?


It was a generalized statement that I made based on the post I was responding to. The person I was responding to sounds (to me) like he/she thought you could simply "get rank"... which we both know isn't true.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 11:56:34 AM EST
ok, tracking. My apologies then. I just hate hearing people bitch about something and not offer a solution to what they're bitching about
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 12:04:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2009 12:04:22 PM EST by geneSW]
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
-snip- I just hate hearing people bitch about something and not offer a solution to what they're bitching about


Same. But as it stands right now, even most of the E-5's in the USAF can't seem to change much. I'm hoping that this will change in about 5 years when they get some rank and the EPR system will quit being abused.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 1:46:01 PM EST
I have a Psych degree (small group dynamics and transactional analysis) and could be making a lot of money outside as an industrial psychologist.

The way I see it, I'm a decent NCO and the Army needs that, especially right now.

If I got out, then I don't get to make any small improvements to the picture. The idiots are allowed to keep being idiots and might eventually win some fights.


Fuck that noise, fight the idiots.



On that note, I was promoted to SFC today.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:09:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By tweeter:
I have a Psych degree (small group dynamics and transactional analysis) and could be making a lot of money outside as an industrial psychologist.

The way I see it, I'm a decent NCO and the Army needs that, especially right now.

If I got out, then I don't get to make any small improvements to the picture. The idiots are allowed to keep being idiots and might eventually win some fights.


Fuck that noise, fight the idiots.



On that note, I was promoted to SFC today.


Congratulations on the promotion.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 4:24:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By FormUnknown:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
I have a Psych degree (small group dynamics and transactional analysis) and could be making a lot of money outside as an industrial psychologist.

The way I see it, I'm a decent NCO and the Army needs that, especially right now.

If I got out, then I don't get to make any small improvements to the picture. The idiots are allowed to keep being idiots and might eventually win some fights.


Fuck that noise, fight the idiots.



On that note, I was promoted to SFC today.


Congratulations on the promotion.


Thanks brother.
Top Top