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Posted: 3/27/2014 4:24:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2014 5:44:36 PM EDT by juan223]




interdasting....and damn frustrating.

he tried to warn us....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

TITLE edited to appease the masses...
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:27:15 PM EDT
did he find it in a ditch?
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:29:47 PM EDT
Some of the people on his FB are claiming it's a fake because it's not on official ATF letterhead. Is there anyone other than Yeager that knows anything about this?
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:30:53 PM EDT
Huh?
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:30:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2014 4:34:38 PM EDT by gammaecho22]
It somehow looks shopped to me. Either that or the color of the text/paper make it seem strange on my screen.



-Sent from my iPhone while in a ditch throwing a smoke grenade
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:31:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By d16man:
did he find it in a ditch?
View Quote
Like an elephant.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:31:27 PM EDT
Until AIMsurplus or another site vendor of 5.45 says it, Yeager is full of it IMHO.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:33:24 PM EDT
Someone please put the picture up here. I'm in a ditch posting and can't access facebook right now.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:35:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:35:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2014 4:37:32 PM EDT by PiccoloPlayer]
EDIT: beat by 29 seconds.

Doesn't look like anything i've ever seen from the BATFE
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:36:43 PM EDT
we are only seeing the bottom half of the letter because of the importer wishes...doubters should call that number..

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:36:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:37:04 PM EDT
Looks real fucking official to me.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:37:35 PM EDT
I thought smaller than .22 was exempt.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:37:52 PM EDT
That is the official ATF font. Must be legit.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:38:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Formergrunt94:
Until AIMsurplus or another site vendor of 5.45 says it, Yeager is full of it IMHO.
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if AIM has a pending form six for 545 they may be getting one...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:38:28 PM EDT
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Is that an email that they printed off?
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:38:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By d16man:
did he find it in a ditch?
View Quote



Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:39:33 PM EDT
Why not call her?




Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:39:43 PM EDT
I am not shocked . But they ignore mild steel vs hardened . They can ban anything on a whim.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:39:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
I thought smaller than .22 was exempt.
View Quote


It is, but probably still smart not to temp the BATF.

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Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:40:52 PM EDT
Haven't their been Draco Pistols Chambered in 5.45 around for a while.. I am not a huge AK fan so maybe I am talking out of my ass.. And there are AR's chambered in 5.45 that i am sure are registered as pistols.. But I am curious as to what this new pistol would be
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:41:18 PM EDT

It also looks like complete bullshit. "Thanks"? Really?

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Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:41:47 PM EDT
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Totally believable letterhead
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:42:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By trauma645:
Haven't their been Draco Pistols Chambered in 5.45 around for a while.. I am not a huge AK fan so maybe I am talking out of my ass.. And there are AR's chambered in 5.45 that i am sure are registered as pistols.. But I am curious as to what this new pistol would be
View Quote


No Draco pistols in 5.45. Pistols aren't registered.

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Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:42:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By trauma645:
Haven't their been Draco Pistols Chambered in 5.45 around for a while.. I am not a huge AK fan so maybe I am talking out of my ass.. And there are AR's chambered in 5.45 that i am sure are registered as pistols.. But I am curious as to what this new pistol would be
View Quote

No Draco was made in 5.45, only 5.56 and 7.62x39.

5.45 pistols have been seen as taboo in the AK world for a long time.. but it seems there are a lot of 5.45 AR pistols to watch on youtube.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:43:46 PM EDT
Toilet paper for when in the ditch
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:45:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By C-4:


It is, but probably still smart not to temp the BATF.

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Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
I thought smaller than .22 was exempt.


It is, but probably still smart not to temp the BATF.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


5.45 mm = 0.214 in

Should be a slam-dunk injunction if somebody wanted to take them to court.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:45:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2014 4:45:45 PM EDT by hiyaboa]
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Originally Posted By C-4:

It also looks like complete bullshit. "Thanks"? Really?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote


All of the contact information is correct, so maybe not.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:45:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By demon07nd:


Is that an email that they printed off?
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Originally Posted By demon07nd:


Is that an email that they printed off?


Its email format.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:46:25 PM EDT
That's an email. Some of you....
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:46:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By hiyaboa:


All of the contact information is correct.
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Originally Posted By hiyaboa:
Originally Posted By C-4:

It also looks like complete bullshit. "Thanks"? Really?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


All of the contact information is correct.


All the contact information is public info that could be copied and pasted from the internet, or just retyped from a previous letter an FFL had on hand.

I'll believe it when the ATF announces a technical determination.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:47:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
I thought smaller than .22 was exempt.
View Quote

Notice how this legitimate BS letter does not define armor piercing
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:47:59 PM EDT
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That looks fake as @#$%.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:48:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By PiccoloPlayer:
EDIT: beat by 29 seconds.

Doesn't look like anything i've ever seen from the BATFE
View Quote


Maybe it's legit but that wording sounds right up there with a Nigerian prince asking for help.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:49:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:


5.45 mm = 0.214 in

Should be a slam-dunk injunction if somebody wanted to take them to court.
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Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
I thought smaller than .22 was exempt.


It is, but probably still smart not to temp the BATF.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


5.45 mm = 0.214 in

Should be a slam-dunk injunction if somebody wanted to take them to court.


I could see the ATF Lawyer walk into the court room without stopping. Walk up to the injunction paperwork with a white-out pen, scratch through ".22" caliber and write ".21" caliber. Turn around and walk out.

Everyone will have a puzzled look on their face as she nonchalantly says "we changed our mind about the caliber thing" as the door closes behind her.

Injunction denied.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:50:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:51:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2014 4:51:30 PM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:51:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JohnSmith6073:
That's an email. Some of you....
View Quote

Which is why we're calling shenanigans, it might as well be written on toilet paper. Ill start freaking out when there is an official statement
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:51:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2014 4:54:28 PM EDT by Rogue-Sasquatch]
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Originally Posted By kncook:


I could see the ATF Lawyer walk into the court room without stopping. Walk up to the injunction paperwork with a white-out pen, scratch through ".22" caliber and write ".21" caliber. Turn around and walk out.

Everyone will have a puzzled look on their face as she nonchalantly says "we changed our mind about the caliber thing" as the door closes behind her.

Injunction denied.
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Originally Posted By kncook:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
I thought smaller than .22 was exempt.


It is, but probably still smart not to temp the BATF.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


5.45 mm = 0.214 in

Should be a slam-dunk injunction if somebody wanted to take them to court.


I could see the ATF Lawyer walk into the court room without stopping. Walk up to the injunction paperwork with a white-out pen, scratch through ".22" caliber and write ".21" caliber. Turn around and walk out.

Everyone will have a puzzled look on their face as she nonchalantly says "we changed our mind about the caliber thing" as the door closes behind her.

Injunction denied.


Armor-piercing ammunition, sometimes referred to as metal-piercing ammunition, is ammunition that is designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, including body armor commonly worn by police officers. Under federal law, armor-piercing ammunition is defined as any projectile or projectile core that may be used in a handgun and that is constructed entirely from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.15 In addition, armor-piercing ammunition is defined as a full jacketed projectile “larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” Id. The Attorney General is required to furnish information to each licensed dealer defining which projectiles are considered armor-piercing ammunition as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17)(B)


They can change their minds.

They can't change the text of the fucking federal statute.

PWNED.

EDIT: The original image was taken with a Nokia Lumia 929 less than two hours ago. Somebody cross-check the timestamp of Yeager's post... I bet it was extremely soon after the image first existed - faster than he would believably get his hands on it.

EDIT 2: THE EDITING: I also doubt the weight of the jacket on a 5.45 projectile accounts for more than a quarter of the weight of the bullet, which is a second condition that statutorily must be met for the armor piercing definition to apply.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:51:47 PM EDT


Desiree Dicknson if anyone was wondering. She said she didn't write that letter.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:55:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By trauma645:
Haven't their been Draco Pistols Chambered in 5.45 around for a while.. I am not a huge AK fan so maybe I am talking out of my ass.. And there are AR's chambered in 5.45 that i am sure are registered as pistols.. But I am curious as to what this new pistol would be
View Quote



No, there haven't been any Dracos in 5.45.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:55:48 PM EDT
I briefly wondered what the fuck would be in it for Yeager to fake this, then remembered that, in addition to being an attention whore, he's given the world ample evidence that he's not rational.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:58:36 PM EDT
Why does every one keep posting about that guy? What's the obsession with him around here?
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 4:59:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:



22 Caliber is in the Law.
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I could see the ATF Lawyer walk into the court room without stopping. Walk up to the injunction paperwork with a white-out pen, scratch through ".22" caliber and write ".21" caliber. Turn around and walk out.

Everyone will have a puzzled look on their face as she nonchalantly says "we changed our mind about the caliber thing" as the door closes behind her.

Injunction denied.



22 Caliber is in the Law.

I was being somewhat cute about them being able to in other determinations. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see them try to pull some sort of shenanigan if ever challanged. They are like umpires. Everyone may know they are wrong but they aren't gonna stop arguing or change their mind.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 5:00:04 PM EDT
I called the cell, no answer. I'm sure she'll call me back.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 5:00:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By PiccoloPlayer:
EDIT: beat by 29 seconds.

Doesn't look like anything i've ever seen from the BATFE
View Quote



+1. It says "our defenition", instead of quoting a specific regulation or law.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 5:01:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BCV:
http://www.justice.gov/usao/mow/slideshow/novafront.jpg

Desiree Dicknson if anyone was wondering. She said she didn't write that letter.
View Quote



Go on.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 5:04:35 PM EDT
So he's manufacturing an excuse to go limber up?
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 5:06:59 PM EDT
Is it customary for BATFE employees to include a cell number on official correspondence? In my experience, government employees don't usually include their cell number.
Link Posted: 3/27/2014 5:06:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2014 5:08:02 PM EDT by Rogue-Sasquatch]
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Originally Posted By kncook:

I was being somewhat cute about them being able to in other determinations. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see them try to pull some sort of shenanigan if ever challanged. They are like umpires. Everyone may know they are wrong but they aren't gonna stop arguing or change their mind.
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Originally Posted By kncook:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I could see the ATF Lawyer walk into the court room without stopping. Walk up to the injunction paperwork with a white-out pen, scratch through ".22" caliber and write ".21" caliber. Turn around and walk out.

Everyone will have a puzzled look on their face as she nonchalantly says "we changed our mind about the caliber thing" as the door closes behind her.

Injunction denied.



22 Caliber is in the Law.

I was being somewhat cute about them being able to in other determinations. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see them try to pull some sort of shenanigan if ever challanged. They are like umpires. Everyone may know they are wrong but they aren't gonna stop arguing or change their mind.


They get a LOT of leeway - too much - with technical determinations, but when there are numbers in the federal code even they have to follow them. The armor-piercing statute is extremely explicit and specific.

- Larger than .22 cal
- Designed and intended for use in a handgun
- Jacket weight more than 25% of the total weight of projectile

Even if it was over .22 cal (it's not) and the jacket was more than a quarter of the weight (I don't believe it is), a good lawyer can sink their case simply by entering the Soviet technical development documents that say, right at the top, "this cartridge and bullet are designed for the prototype 5.45x39mm Avtomat Kalashinkov RIFLE- date: 1974". The bullet and cartridge was not designed nor intended for use in a handgun. Later adaptation does not change that objective fact.


So. I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say that Buck Yeager is either the most stupidly gullible dumbass on the internet today, or he's a lying piece of shit.

Possibly both.
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