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Posted: 9/26/2004 4:51:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 4:52:23 PM EST by DOW]
Showed Gunny killing some watermelons with an XM-8 on the commercial. 10PM eastern tonight on The History Channel.
That is all.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:59:16 PM EST
Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:05:11 PM EST
Watching it as I type!
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:06:59 PM EST

I want one!!!

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:08:16 PM EST
I dunno, that XM-8 looks pretty sweet

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:08:57 PM EST
Did that Army guy say you only need to clean it every 6,000 rounds if it's cleaned properly?????????????????? I think he did????
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:09:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 5:10:53 PM EST by johnnyrebel]
essh plastic....
...tupperware?...what happened to the 6.8?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:09:17 PM EST
ugh.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:10:56 PM EST
"It sprays just like a garden hose...."
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:12:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 5:15:47 PM EST by gus]
I didn't see one single thing about the XM8 that the current M16/M4 platform can't already do. Other than a different operating method, what is the advantage? Also, the carbine has an 8" barrel? Aren't we already having problems with the effectiveness of 5.56 with 14.5" barrels? And why would they make it seem like only the XM8 can use a Beta mag?

I was and remain completely unimpressed by the XM8. Not only is it a waste of money, I think there are disadvantages to buying your basic small arm design from a foreign govt.

If they accept this turd, they are stupid. The only justification for a change to the XM8 the demonstrator gave was that "it's time to move on". Prepare for the fleecing. Your tax $$ have found a new hole to be dumped into.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:12:29 PM EST
I can't believe I'm saying this.. but the XM8 looked pretty damn cool. I just wonder how much abuse that plastic can take without cracking
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:13:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 5:13:33 PM EST by Polyak]
Gunny asked why the move to the XM8?


All the Army rep could answer was, "it's time to move on" ....WTF??? Not how much better it is ( because it isn't), it's just time to move on.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:13:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By gus:
I didn't see one single thing about the XM8 that the current M16/M4 platform can't already do. Other than a different operating method, what is the advantage? Also, the carbine has an 8" barrel? Aren't we already having problems with the effectiveness of 5.56 with 14.5" barrels? And why would they make it seem like only the XM8 can use a Beta mag?

I was and remain completely unimpressed by the XM8. Not only is it a waste of money, I think there are disadvantages to buying your basic small arm design from a foreign govt.

If they accept this turd, they are stupid.

agreed 100%
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:13:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By gus:
I didn't see one single thing about the XM8 that the current M16/M4 platform can't already do. Other than a different operating method, what is the advantage? Also, the carbine has an 8" barrel? Aren't we already having problems with the effectiveness of 5.56 with 14.5" barrels? And why would they make it seem like only the XM8 can use a Beta mag?

I was and remain completely unimpressed by the XM8. Not only is it a waste of money, I think there are disadvantages to buying your basic small arm design from a foreign govt.

If they accept this turd, they are stupid.



not only that but he was like you can change this to a carbine or lmg in 10 min...i can do that in 2 with a m16
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:13:49 PM EST
I dont like it!...but I'd like to have one....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:16:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:
I dont like it!...but I'd like to have one....



Oh, I'd LOVE to have one!!! But I don't want to buy the entire military a new weapon system when it offers no advantage to anyone but the manufacturer.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:17:59 PM EST
I talked to a soldier that was in Iraq and he said they were great, fired thousands of rounds in the desert without jamming once. Ive seen videos of it being dumped in a barrel of water, buried it in the dirt and sand and picked it up and fired 30 rounds automatic without jamming. I want one as well.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:18:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By OD:
I talked to a soldier that was in Iraq and he said they were great, fired thousands of rounds in the desert without jamming once. Ive seen videos of it being dumped in a barrel of water, buried it in the dirt and sand and picked it up and fired 30 rounds automatic without jamming. I want one as well.



I didn't know the XM8 was already deployed.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:19:06 PM EST
let em have it aslong as they make the m-16's transferrable through the cmp
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:19:17 PM EST
If it was chambered in 6.8SPC it would be awesome. As it is now, it is just a waste of my tax dollars. (The G36 has been around for years.)
The 9" bbl is as usefull in combat as a 10/22.
Dropping a Beta C-mag in the rifle version does not make it a SAW. JMHO.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:23:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By johnnyrebel:

Originally Posted By gus:
I didn't see one single thing about the XM8 that the current M16/M4 platform can't already do. Other than a different operating method, what is the advantage? Also, the carbine has an 8" barrel? Aren't we already having problems with the effectiveness of 5.56 with 14.5" barrels? And why would they make it seem like only the XM8 can use a Beta mag?

I was and remain completely unimpressed by the XM8. Not only is it a waste of money, I think there are disadvantages to buying your basic small arm design from a foreign govt.

If they accept this turd, they are stupid.



not only that but he was like you can change this to a carbine or lmg in 10 min...i can do that in 2 with a m16



+2
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:26:22 PM EST
the big advantage is moving the gas system out onto the barrel. This will keep the crud down in the action.
Didn't HK already start doing that with the M16?

I agree with the rest 9" barrel to short for the 5.56.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:28:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuantumPion:
I dunno, that XM-8 looks pretty sweet




...For shame...
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:30:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By johnnyrebel:
let em have it aslong as they make the m-16's transferrable through the cmp



HELL, I'D GO ALONG WITH THAT!!!

"DoD ADOPTS M8."
"M16A2 for sale through CMP. Only 10 per customer, per year."

Oh yeah!
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:31:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOW:
Did that Army guy say you only need to clean it every 6,000 rounds if it's cleaned properly?????????????????? I think he did????



Doesn't matter, as the Army will still require it to be immaculate after every trip to the range, and the AR can last 6,000 rounds without cleaning anyway...

No one with half a brain will go 6,000 rounds without cleaning, except to prove a point on the reliability of the gun...
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:33:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By johnnyrebel:
essh plastic....
...tupperware?...what happened to the 6.8?



6.8 was never ment for mass issue...

What has 'happened' to it is that it's restricted to the special units that it was designed for... Kind of like the HK USP and .45ACP - special tools for special forces, but never ever going to be mass issued....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:34:13 PM EST
My only issue with it is the short barrel. Other than that, I can't wait for it to show up in the company arms room.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:36:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By poppinsexz:
the big advantage is moving the gas system out onto the barrel. This will keep the crud down in the action.
Didn't HK already start doing that with the M16?

I agree with the rest 9" barrel to short for the 5.56.



And by moving to a piston mounted on top of the barrel, you lose the accuracy advantage of the gas impingement system. However, if it's THAT important, it would make a lot more sense to design an upper for existing rifles than to completely replace the whole damn platform.

I'd love to see some good accuracy comparisons between the 20" versions of each rifle. I'll bet the XM8 is no better, and probably not as good.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:38:03 PM EST
There is NO good reason to keep these out of civilian hands in SEMI-ONLY mode. I would really like to own one, and I hope HK respects us enough to sell one.

That said, the only real justification for this rifle is the gas system. Being that much easier to clean is a clear advantage over the M4/16. But does that justify replacement of the entire existing inventory?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:39:52 PM EST
Its just another HK commerical. HK seems to be pushing the XM8 very hard. Remember, its was CUT from this years defence budget.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:40:29 PM EST
A red-dot sight is not good for a primary aiming system of a rifle SERIES. That's just bad, not a good idea. Even if you do have back-up irons, they'll suck. You can't have them as dedicated as a standard 2-apt weapon. Why not just have a rail mount and allow mounting of a red dot? Why have it STANDARD? Also, red dot is not good for long range shooting or in different lighting situations. Sure, it might be more difficult to learn with an iron sight (you can still learn in a week to use it well), so why adopt a fucking sight just to improve combat training time? It's too short as it is.

9" barrel? WTF are they thinking? You might as well just throw M855s at the enemy.

Beta-C magazine makes it a SAW? Nope, sorry. It must be able to be belt-fed.

Are they trying to make the guys in logistics cry? They already have problems supplying replacement parts for the M16/M4, now throw this damn tupperware gun in the mix and it's a logisitics nightmare. Why not just modify the operation of the M16/M4 like H&K did? That'd be fine and dandy and would only require new parts - not an entire system.

Is non-compatible with M16/M4 uppers/lowers - therefore making it two things: 1.) Shite and 2.) Worthless shite that support other systems in times of need and supply shortages.

Good stuff:
Seems reliable, but it's not combat tested.
Very well designed for take-down... Not very well in ergonomics or capability, however. I think a 3-year-old could take this weapon down and clean it; it's quite impressive.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:51:30 PM EST
have you all noticed that the gunny doesn't shoot very well? Whenver they show a watermelon exploding they cut away fropm him shooting! When he was shooting the XM8 they actually showed him missing a couple of times.

Anyway, IMHO opinion the XM8 is a stupid waste of money. I've never been one of those tha thought that ultra long range was the way to go with a standard infantry weapon but jeeze..a 9 inch barrel???

If it aint broke don't fix it. That LTC they had on must already have a job offer from HK.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:53:33 PM EST
I got to fondle one a couple of weeks ago. It was very nice indeed.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:55:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:
have you all noticed that the gunny doesn't shoot very well? Whenver they show a watermelon exploding they cut away fropm him shooting! When he was shooting the XM8 they actually showed him missing a couple of times.

It's possible he's just playing around, too. I mean, when I'm working on marksmanship I shoot considerably better than when I'm out plinking cans and shooting propane cans (fun stuff ).
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:59:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:00:07 PM EST by GC456]

Originally Posted By DOW:
Did that Army guy say you only need to clean it every 6,000 rounds if it's cleaned properly?????????????????? I think he did????




They also said

[1964]"Hey this new M-16 is self-cleaning!"[/1964]
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:00:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By voilsb:

Originally Posted By Currahee:
have you all noticed that the gunny doesn't shoot very well? Whenver they show a watermelon exploding they cut away fropm him shooting! When he was shooting the XM8 they actually showed him missing a couple of times.

It's possible he's just playing around, too. I mean, when I'm working on marksmanship I shoot considerably better than when I'm out plinking cans and shooting propane cans (fun stuff ).



He was mentioning how easy it was to control, just seconds after showing him letting it push him around. I don't see how it could be any easier to control on FA than an M16.

It was indeed an HK commercial. How disappointing....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:00:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:01:36 PM EST by gus]

Originally Posted By GC456:

Originally Posted By DOW:
Did that Army guy say you only need to clean it every 6,000 rounds if it's cleaned properly?????????????????? I think he did????




They also said

[1964]"Hey this new M-16 is self-cleaning!"[/1964]



Yeah and it requires no training.....Is that fucker MacNamara still around or something??
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:08:18 PM EST
What happens when you shoot a propane can?

I have always wondered.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:08:30 PM EST
Don't fix what ain't broke.



Or as the goverment says:


If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:11:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:
What happens when you shoot a propane can?

I have always wondered.

Well, I tend to shoot the small $0.89 ones. But basically, there's a big puff of smoke (actually water vapor, but who's counting?) and the can goes flying about 100 feet. No catastrophic explosion or anything. The can is quite cold when you go to retrieve it, too. Pretty fun reactive target, if you ask me.

Now, I've been told it's even more fun when you have a lit road flare very near to the propane can when shot .... I gotta try that some day, but probably at a range of greater than 100 yards.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:11:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By gus:
He was mentioning how easy it was to control, just seconds after showing him letting it push him around. I don't see how it could be any easier to control on FA than an M16.

Oh well, maybe he's just getting old and isn't up to his younger abilities.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:13:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By voilsb:

Originally Posted By Currahee:
What happens when you shoot a propane can?

I have always wondered.

Well, I tend to shoot the small $0.89 ones. But basically, there's a big puff of smoke (actually water vapor, but who's counting?) and the can goes flying about 100 feet. No catastrophic explosion or anything. The can is quite cold when you go to retrieve it, too. Pretty fun reactive target, if you ask me.

Now, I've been told it's even more fun when you have a lit road flare very near to the propane can when shot .... I gotta try that some day, but probably at a range of greater than 100 yards.



I'm suprised the metal on metal spark doesn't ignite it. Maybe with a tracer round?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:15:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By poppinsexz:
the big advantage is moving the gas system out onto the barrel. This will keep the crud down in the action.
Didn't HK already start doing that with the M16?

I agree with the rest 9" barrel to short for the 5.56.



And by moving to a piston mounted on top of the barrel, you lose the accuracy advantage of the gas impingement system. However, if it's THAT important, it would make a lot more sense to design an upper for existing rifles than to completely replace the whole damn platform.

I'd love to see some good accuracy comparisons between the 20" versions of each rifle. I'll bet the XM8 is no better, and probably not as good.



Tests comparing the XM-8 'Designated Marksman Rifle' (a 24" bbled unit, IIRC) to the AR-SPR hsve shown that the SPR prints a smaller group at 300yds than the XM-8 at 100...
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:19:08 PM EST
The XM8 looked great to me. I would love to have one. And it looks like the next time we see it , it will be the M8.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:21:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
And it looks like the next time we see it , it will be the M8.



I wouldn't be so sure.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:43:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:
I'm suprised the metal on metal spark doesn't ignite it. Maybe with a tracer round?

I'm guessing the copper(bullet)+aluminum(can) combination doesn't spark too well. Tracers might work, though
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:44:15 PM EST
If it's the best gun ever built, the son of a bitch still looks like a cheap Wal-Mart toy. I like a gun that looks somewhat like a gun. Therefore I'll stick with the M-16/AR-15 series of weapons. They are as far out looking as I wanna get.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:48:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
And it looks like the next time we see it , it will be the M8.



I wouldn't be so sure.



I am sure that the M8 will be the new rifle. All the signs are pointing that way.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:58:35 PM EST
Yup, even though Congress suspended funding, it'll still make it big, right?

Please, don't get too optimistic.

I have yet to see where the M-16 is lacking.

Additionally, new improvements are underway ( in the words of HFG ) that are good enough to make the best AR obsolete. Gas piston for the extra reliability that isn't needed, quick changing barrels AND uppers, current lowers, etc.

Sounds good to me. I think the M-16 is good to go for another 15 years.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:05:52 PM EST
Enemy guy #1 "Hey look, it's a Starship Trooper!"

Enemy guy #2 "Nahh, it's just a US Marine..."
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:10:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Blackjack272:
Yup, even though Congress suspended funding, it'll still make it big, right?

Please, don't get too optimistic.

I have yet to see where the M-16 is lacking.

Additionally, new improvements are underway ( in the words of HFG ) that are good enough to make the best AR obsolete. Gas piston for the extra reliability that isn't needed, quick changing barrels AND uppers, current lowers, etc.

Sounds good to me. I think the M-16 is good to go for another 15 years.



Just because the XM8 was not funded for this year does not mean that the M8 is scarpped. I was saying that the signs are the M16 will be on the way out. Not right away but in time. The XM8 is in being tested, promoted and is in Iraq right now. So I would say that those are signs that there is a new rifle in the future...and it looks like the XM8 is the front runner love it or hate it.
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