Sorry, just finished watching the second episode, and the degree to which they stick out due to bad camo got me thinking if this was actually based on anything true? Either during the Iraq Invasion or previous wars.

And WTF is up with Colbert using Night Vision during the day. Is that possible?

Quoted: And WTF is up with Colbert using Night Vision during the day. Is that possible?

That seems more of a technical/fuck up mistake in directing it. In the series they explained the bad camo. Had to do with a shipment fuck up or something.

Funny how the reporter blends in perfectly with the environment and the marines stick out like a sore thumb.

yeah he had that cover to keep the light out but that would give him about 0 FOV.  I couldnt stop staring at it the whole episode

YOu mean the chem suits?

The way it works is..well, lets say they have an order for 40 larges..They have 20 desert..but need more..so they find what they can and ship it up. It's all about what they have for supplies.

Hes a pic from the first gulf war, my dads in there.:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/BigPhish11731/Gulf%20War/scan0001.jpg

Quoted: yeah he had that cover to keep the light out but that would give him about 0 FOV.  I couldnt stop staring at it the whole episode

Some NV optics have a day cover, which is usually a small hole.   Optics lenses don't work like you think, you can see fine with the day cover on.  Think about how the pupil on your eye works.

You will also notice that they had binos and glass optics taped down to a slit (ghetto kill flash), that works fine too, only down side is reduced low light gathering at dawn and dusk.


As far as the color of the chem suits, who gives a fuck on that mission profile anyway?

Was it like a PVS-4 mounted on an M16?  Seen them during the day with the pinhole cover on them.

I hope are troops don't act that way

One of my buddies said that he did not see his first set of desert BDU's till he was ready to board the plane home. of course he was an MP and not a frontline soldier for the most part.

BTW this was Desert Shield/Desert Storm 91

Even in OIF/OEF, we started the war with folks wearing mix-and-match uniforms....

First it was woodland IBA with DCUs... Then it was woodland and desert IBA with ACUs...

And finally they got to all-ACU items...

The supply system is not exactly 'nimble', and a wrong-color vest is better than no vest...

Same for chem suits...

Units that had a need for camo in the mission profile, obviously, would get the 'correct' camo....

But if you are doing very-high-visibility operations (like, say, an armored raid on Baghdad), camo really makes very little difference....

Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way

What way?

I don't know about the TV show, but all of the overgarments used for MOPP gear at the time were woodland pattern, and most units wore them during the invasion.  

This was a contributing factor the the Army deciding to go with one pattern in the future.  Whether the chosen pattern was the right one - is obviously a different issue.

Quoted: Quoted: yeah he had that cover to keep the light out but that would give him about 0 FOV.  I couldnt stop staring at it the whole episode Some NV optics have a day cover, which is usually a small hole.   Optics lenses don't work like you think, you can see fine with the day cover on.  Think about how the pupil on your eye works. You will also notice that they had binos and glass optics taped down to a slit (ghetto kill flash), that works fine too, only down side is reduced low light gathering at dawn and dusk. As far as the color of the chem suits, who gives a fuck on that mission profile anyway?

So you are telling me that the cover on it does not SERIOUSLY restrict the field of view?  and yes i noticed the binos.  Doenst seem like itd be a huge issue on those though.  Of course this is just me guessing.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: yeah he had that cover to keep the light out but that would give him about 0 FOV.  I couldnt stop staring at it the whole episode Some NV optics have a day cover, which is usually a small hole.   Optics lenses don't work like you think, you can see fine with the day cover on.  Think about how the pupil on your eye works. You will also notice that they had binos and glass optics taped down to a slit (ghetto kill flash), that works fine too, only down side is reduced low light gathering at dawn and dusk. As far as the color of the chem suits, who gives a fuck on that mission profile anyway? So you are telling me that the cover on it does not SERIOUSLY restrict the field of view?  and yes i noticed the binos.  Doenst seem like itd be a huge issue on those though.  Of course this is just me guessing.

Does it restrict your field of view when you go outside in the daylight and your pupil contracts to a pin hole?

Quoted: Even in OIF/OEF, we started the war with folks wearing mix-and-match uniforms.... First it was woodland IBA with DCUs... Then it was woodland and desert IBA with ACUs... And finally they got to all-ACU items... The supply system is not exactly 'nimble', and a wrong-color vest is better than no vest... Same for chem suits... Units that had a need for camo in the mission profile, obviously, would get the 'correct' camo.... But if you are doing very-high-visibility operations (like, say, an armored raid on Baghdad), camo really makes very little difference....

I kinda figured that, but wasn't sure since I have no experience. Just common sense.

Thanks for the facts though, much appreciated.

Quoted: So you are telling me that the cover on it does not SERIOUSLY restrict the field of view?  and yes i noticed the binos.  Doenst seem like itd be a huge issue on those though.  Of course this is just me guessing.

Just like you can barely see the fixed front sight base thru a low mounted scope on the Piccy rail.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: yeah he had that cover to keep the light out but that would give him about 0 FOV.  I couldnt stop staring at it the whole episode Some NV optics have a day cover, which is usually a small hole.   Optics lenses don't work like you think, you can see fine with the day cover on.  Think about how the pupil on your eye works. You will also notice that they had binos and glass optics taped down to a slit (ghetto kill flash), that works fine too, only down side is reduced low light gathering at dawn and dusk. As far as the color of the chem suits, who gives a fuck on that mission profile anyway? So you are telling me that the cover on it does not SERIOUSLY restrict the field of view?  and yes i noticed the binos.  Doenst seem like itd be a huge issue on those though.  Of course this is just me guessing. Does it restrict your field of view when you go outside in the daylight and your pupil contracts to a pin hole?

I like it when people dumb things down for me.  That makes sense.  I don't play with nv stuff, so I wouldn't know.

Quoted: Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way What way?

captain shooting ak's out windows at cars, unarmed people
guys like well he is in charge
black guy ranting about not taking his collage diploma, cause he no need whitey approval in this world
all the whinnying
guy gets on radio guy for speaking Portuguese over the radio, use English only
just seemed unprofessional,
cut the mustache don't cut the mustache, your guy incharge lied shit
just seemed to played out and acted
where did you get that vest EBAY, lol come on

What Branch of service?  What war?  If Iraq, what time period in Iraq? What were they wearing.?

I was in Desert Storm (Marine).  My unit had chocolate chip desert cammies, but I had a British camouflage MOPP suit (grean) and wore my flak over it with desert chocolate chip cover on the flak.  We had to give up some of our personal sets of desert cammies for another battalion as all they had was woodlands, so some of their guys wore woodlands, some desert chocolate chip.  Their vehicles were woodland camo.  We painted ours tan ourselves.

OIF 1 My unit had tri-color desert cammies.  We wore woodland camo MOPP suits over them.  We also had woodland camo interceptor vests.  Our vehicles were woodland camo.  A few Marines had desert Marpat at this time, but not a lot.  I saw some units that had tri-color desert MOPP suits.  There just wasn't enough desert camo MOPP suits to go around so you use what you got. I did see some Marine units whose vehicles were all tan. Some with a mix.

The next time I came to Iraq we had desert Marpat cammies, coyote brown interceptors (although some people got woodland camo throat, groin, and collars or a mix due to shortages of coyote in particular sizes) and a few still had woodland interceptors.  Tri-color desert MOPP suits although we never broke them out.  Our HUMV's were mostly all tan but we had a few woodland camo ones still. All of our 7 tons were green (in my unit).

I saw some Army guys in ACU and some in tri-color desert cammies.  Sea Bees in tri-color desert camo. Some Army aviation types wearing solid BDU's.

This time it's desert Marpat again, coyote MTV (modular tactical vests).  Outside the wire it's tan flight suits or desert Marpat FROGs. I have some green and some tan vehicles.  Army guys are all wearing ACU (that I've seen), Air force wearing their new digital tiger whatever you call it.  Sea Bees in tri-color deserts.  SEALs I've seen on the FOB were wearing desert tri-color. Army aviation guys in solid tan BDU's.

We have woodland Marpat gortex and a new desert Marpat shoft shell.  I've seen some Marines with desert Marpat gortex too. My pack is woodland Marpat.  My gortex bivy bag is regular woodland camo.

It's all clear as mud now right?

Bottom line, if the camo was mix and match, it's accurate.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way What way? captain shooting ak's out windows at cars, unarmed people guys like well he is in charge black guy ranting about not taking his collage diploma, cause he no need whitey approval in this world all the whinnying guy gets on radio guy for speaking Portuguese over the radio, use English only just seemed unprofessional, cut the mustache don't cut the mustache, your guy incharge lied shit just seemed to played out and acted where did you get that vest EBAY, lol come on

You throw a group of men together in a harsh situation, deny them sleep, comfort etc, you are going to get "behavior" like that.  Bullshitting, half assed philosophy.  The conversations between the men, making up BS songs and talking politics was, in this show, maybe better than I have ever seen in a movie.

As for the over all "fucked up" nature of it, that is the way it seems on the ground in the military, no matter who you are.  It probably seemed the same way in Caesar's legion going in to Gaul.  The US MIlitary is the best ever, and it still seems that way on the sharp end.  You get thousands of men moving around your going to have to get cluster fucks... or things that seem like a clusterfuck to you.  You are going to have personalities that come out under stress that you wouldn't imagine.  I've never been in combat, but I have been in some large scale exercises and you see it there, WITHOUT the added stress of haji shooting at you.

I'm all for the captain capping that guy.  I see someone laying on the side of the road like that, either he's got an RPG in the grass or he's to fucking dumb to live.  War zones are dumb places to try and sneak around.  The only issue I had was the captain HAVING an AK... fucking commanding officer not being uniform with his troops.

The REPORTER got the vest off of Ebay, not one of the troops.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way What way? captain shooting ak's out windows at cars, unarmed people guys like well he is in charge black guy ranting about not taking his collage diploma, cause he no need whitey approval in this world all the whinnying guy gets on radio guy for speaking Portuguese over the radio, use English only just seemed unprofessional, cut the mustache don't cut the mustache, your guy incharge lied shit just seemed to played out and acted where did you get that vest EBAY, lol come on

I believe the show is based off a book written by that embedded reporter.

So all those events could be 100% true and our troops could absolutely have acted like that....not that i saw anything really wrong in the depiction. Soldiers/Marines bitch and bullshit, retards make it through the cracks and get put in command, reporters buy shit off ebay...its a wonderful world we live in.

Quoted: One of my buddies said that he did not see his first set of desert BDU's till he was ready to board the plane home. of course he was an MP and not a frontline soldier for the most part. BTW this was Desert Shield/Desert Storm 91

I was a MP and I got a full set issued in 1991 and then never deployed.  I was even issued a "chocolate chip" flak vest cover.  I'm guessing it depends on the unit.

height=8

Quoted: YOu mean the chem suits? The way it works is..well, lets say they have an order for 40 larges..They have 20 desert..but need more..so they find what they can and ship it up. It's all about what they have for supplies. Hes a pic from the first gulf war, my dads in there.: img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/BigPhish11731/Gulf%20War/scan0001.jpg

Who was your dad with?  That's obviously outside Kuwait city.  I was with Co. "C", 4th Tks, attached to 2nd Tank Bn, supporting the 8th Marine Rgt.  Damn, so many memories...

You wanna know if they were wearing woodland chem gear in OIF I?

Are you kidding me? Did you cover yourself with a rock during March-April of 2003? Does anyone actually remember the war in it's initial phases?

Short answer, of course they did. When you see guys walking around in woodland trash bags, its because we honestly thought Saddam had WMD's, just like everyone else.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way What way? captain shooting ak's out windows at cars, unarmed people guys like well he is in charge black guy ranting about not taking his collage diploma, cause he no need whitey approval in this world all the whinnying guy gets on radio guy for speaking Portuguese over the radio, use English only just seemed unprofessional, cut the mustache don't cut the mustache, your guy incharge lied shit just seemed to played out and acted where did you get that vest EBAY, lol come on

You fail, on so many levels.

1. The guy speaking in Portuguese was conveying a potentially VERY IMPORTANT message. What good is it if no one can understand it? Speaking in English is a must.

2. Only the reporter got the vest on ebay, which by my understanding is where he in fact actually got it according to the book.

height=8

Quoted: What Branch of service?  What war?  If Iraq, what time period in Iraq? What were they wearing.? I was in Desert Storm (Marine).  My unit had chocolate chip desert cammies, but I had a British camouflage MOPP suit (grean) and wore my flak over it with desert chocolate chip cover on the flak.  We had to give up some of our personal sets of desert cammies for another battalion as all they had was woodlands, so some of their guys wore woodlands, some desert chocolate chip.  Their vehicles were woodland camo.  We painted ours tan ourselves. OIF 1 My unit had tri-color desert cammies.  We wore woodland camo MOPP suits over them.  We also had woodland camo interceptor vests.  Our vehicles were woodland camo.  A few Marines had desert Marpat at this time, but not a lot.  I saw some units that had tri-color desert MOPP suits.  There just wasn't enough desert camo MOPP suits to go around so you use what you got. I did see some Marine units whose vehicles were all tan. Some with a mix. The next time I came to Iraq we had desert Marpat cammies, coyote brown interceptors (although some people got woodland camo throat, groin, and collars or a mix due to shortages of coyote in particular sizes) and a few still had woodland interceptors.  Tri-color desert MOPP suits although we never broke them out.  Our HUMV's were mostly all tan but we had a few woodland camo ones still. All of our 7 tons were green (in my unit). I saw some Army guys in ACU and some in tri-color desert cammies.  Sea Bees in tri-color desert camo. Some Army aviation types wearing solid BDU's. This time it's desert Marpat again, coyote MTV (modular tactical vests).  Outside the wire it's tan flight suits or desert Marpat FROGs. I have some green and some tan vehicles.  Army guys are all wearing ACU (that I've seen), Air force wearing their new digital tiger whatever you call it.  Sea Bees in tri-color deserts.  SEALs I've seen on the FOB were wearing desert tri-color. Army aviation guys in solid tan BDU's. We have woodland Marpat gortex and a new desert Marpat shoft shell.  I've seen some Marines with desert Marpat gortex too. My pack is woodland Marpat.  My gortex bivy bag is regular woodland camo. It's all clear as mud now right?he

Yup.  Also, don't forget that in the days before MARPAT desert cammies became available for purchase, you had to go to supply for "tap gear" for your desert issue.  Of course, whatever they had left over by the time you signed for it, was 27 sizes off from what you needed.  Thank gawd you can buy your own now....

If you read the book, it's pretty funny (and frustrating at the same time) how the author (a former Marine) pokes jabs at the Bn Cmdr about his obsession with "the grooming standard".  The sad thing is, there are people out there (still) like that....

All in all, the USMC is a thousand times better than it used to be when it comes to gear.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: yeah he had that cover to keep the light out but that would give him about 0 FOV.  I couldnt stop staring at it the whole episode Some NV optics have a day cover, which is usually a small hole.   Optics lenses don't work like you think, you can see fine with the day cover on.  Think about how the pupil on your eye works. You will also notice that they had binos and glass optics taped down to a slit (ghetto kill flash), that works fine too, only down side is reduced low light gathering at dawn and dusk. As far as the color of the chem suits, who gives a fuck on that mission profile anyway? So you are telling me that the cover on it does not SERIOUSLY restrict the field of view?  and yes i noticed the binos.  Doenst seem like itd be a huge issue on those though.  Of course this is just me guessing.

No, it does not.  It just lets less light in.  Think about how your pupil works - does your field of vision change when your pupil changes sizes in bright/dim light?

i really need to stop living life and spend more time here..


what is the generation kill yall are pissing about?

< yeah i can google....   but googling doesnt pad the post count does it ? >

Quoted: You wanna know if they were wearing woodland chem gear in OIF I? Are you kidding me? Did you cover yourself with a rock during March-April of 2003? Does anyone actually remember the war in it's initial phases? Short answer, of course they did. When you see guys walking around in woodland trash bags, its because we honestly thought Saddam had WMD's, just like everyone else.

It was over 5 years ago.

Some regulars here were still in junior high, or less, back then.

In the OP's case, he may have also been in another country (I think he has said he is an Israeli immigrant), thus not bombarded with the footage.

Quoted: You wanna know if they were wearing woodland chem gear in OIF I? Are you kidding me? Did you cover yourself with a rock during March-April of 2003? Does anyone actually remember the war in it's initial phases? Short answer, of course they did. When you see guys walking around in woodland trash bags, its because we honestly thought Saddam had WMD's, just like everyone else.

+1

Somewhere on my computer, I've got photos of myself and everyone else in my battalion wearing woodland MOPP suits in Iraq during OIF I.

Marines from my Battalion (2/1, 15th MEU) at either Umm Qasr or Az Zubayr in OIF 1 March 2003.

Woodland camo MOPP suits, tri-color desert helmet cover, woodland camo interceptor vest and LBE.

Quoted: farm1.static.flickr.com/154/348715650_a6e1e8bbf4_o.jpg Marines from my Battalion (2/1, 15th MEU) at either Umm Qasr or Az Zubayr in OIF 1 March 2003. Woodland camo MOPP suits, tri-color desert helmet cover, woodland camo interceptor vest and LBE.

Wow is that one of the old 4x scopes on his carry handle?  I haven't seen one of those in a while.  Did your unit issue them or is that personally owned?

Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way

What does that mean? you hope they dont act like people?

Quoted: Quoted: farm1.static.flickr.com/154/348715650_a6e1e8bbf4_o.jpg Marines from my Battalion (2/1, 15th MEU) at either Umm Qasr or Az Zubayr in OIF 1 March 2003. Woodland camo MOPP suits, tri-color desert helmet cover, woodland camo interceptor vest and LBE. Wow is that one of the old 4x scopes on his carry handle?  I haven't seen one of those in a while.  Did your unit issue them or is that personally owned?

Personally owned.

Quoted: Quoted: farm1.static.flickr.com/154/348715650_a6e1e8bbf4_o.jpg Marines from my Battalion (2/1, 15th MEU) at either Umm Qasr or Az Zubayr in OIF 1 March 2003. Woodland camo MOPP suits, tri-color desert helmet cover, woodland camo interceptor vest and LBE. Wow is that one of the old 4x scopes on his carry handle?  I haven't seen one of those in a while.  Did your unit issue them or is that personally owned?

Personal chinese knockoff...

The 'Mass Issue' optics were the ACOG and M68 (Aimpoint)

Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way

why? have you ever been under the stresses of combat or for that matter a Marine?

thats how we act... bottom line i have seen much more "brutal" shit when we were all screwing off when i was in... if you are going to judge those warriors based on how they are relieving their fears and stress then you have no idea what you are talking about

Quoted: Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way why? have you ever been under the stresses of combat or for that matter a Marine? thats how we act

+1

You have to keep in mind that, Marine or not, they are mostly 18-21 year old kids with all the personality traits of a typical 18-21 year old kid.

Quoted: Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way why? have you ever been under the stresses of combat or for that matter a Marine?

Of course he hasn't.  He's a pot head.  With "420" in his screen name, he's pretty proud of it too.  

Keep sucking on that bong, Mr. 420.  And nice sentence, "are troops."  Smoking dope hasn't affected your brain at all, has it?  Why don't you leave the big boy stuff to those who can handle it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way why? have you ever been under the stresses of combat or for that matter a Marine? thats how we act +1 You have to keep in mind that, Marine or not, they are mostly 18-21 year old kids with all the personality traits of a typical 18-21 year old kid.

Exactamundo

I just saw that show for the first time last night. I was wondering about the mix and match two, and the complaining about batteries for NV and thermals, etc.

I'm having a little bit of a time figuring out the chain of command...

That CPT McGraw, "Captain America" dude seems seriously ate up.  I would imagine someone like him relieved in the first day... like as soon as someone of importance heard one of his radio rants.  I can't imagine anyone in the US Military using a radio like that (and yes I am an infantry vet.)

The thing is, I can't figure out what position he is in.  The website is really great

www.hbo.com/generationkill/

(as an aside it has a lot of ways to support the troops as well)

But it lists CPT Schwetje as the Bravo Co commander (and he seemed like a good guy) but lists McGraw as a 3rd Plt commander...

a CPT as a Platoon commander??? (PLT LDR to Army types like me) So, he is NOT in the chain of command of the guys onder LT1 Fick?  

Quoted: I'm having a little bit of a time figuring out the chain of command... That CPT McGraw, "Captain America" dude seems seriously ate up.  I would imagine someone like him relieved in the first day... like as soon as someone of importance heard one of his radio rants.  I can't imagine anyone in the US Military using a radio like that (and yes I am an infantry vet.) The thing is, I can't figure out what position he is in.  The website is really great www.hbo.com/generationkill/ (as an aside it has a lot of ways to support the troops as well) But it lists CPT Schwetje as the Bravo Co commander (and he seemed like a good guy) but lists McGraw as a 3rd Plt commander... a CPT as a Platoon commander??? (PLT LDR to Army types like me) So, he is NOT in the chain of command of the guys onder LT1 Fick?

Maybe they know about his fucktardery to some degree and thats why he's got a platoon rather than a company. But i have no idea how it all works or if that's even possible.

Quoted: Quoted: And WTF is up with Colbert using Night Vision during the day. Is that possible? That seems more of a technical/fuck up mistake in directing it. In the series they explained the bad camo. Had to do with a shipment fuck up or something. Funny how the reporter blends in perfectly with the environment and the marines stick out like a sore thumb.

And I think that is exactly what they are trying to portray. there was several references to bad supply. Fucked up supply systems that do stupid shit. In first gulf war We had woodland MOPP gear in the desert and so did every one else I saw.

During the initial phases of OIF the supply system was such that depending on where you came from you had choco chip cammo or woodland or whatever.

Quoted: I hope are troops don't act that way

Man I laughed my ass off entire episode that is exactly how it is at least our company.

Overall I thought it was a damn good show. I don't get wrapped up in tiny little things here and there serves no purpose if it is too unrealistic I just won't watch it I get no joy out of saying oh that is not the way it happened or would happen or that gear was this or that. Too distracting I am either entertained by it or I turn it off.

And Evan is an idiot for playing up the mustache issue. Gen. Mattis was concerned about Fedayeen in US uniforms infiltrating our lines. Knowing that mustaches were popular in Saddam's army, he encouraged mustache contests in Kuwait so word would slip to the Iraqis that they could blend in with their mustaches.

As soon as we crossed the line of departure he passed the word down to shave off all the mustaches, so any infiltrators would be more likely to stick out.

Quoted: I believe the show is based off a book written by that in bedded reporter.

That's "imbedded."

Quoted: Quoted: I believe the show is based off a book written by that in bedded reporter. That's "imbedded."

That's "embedded"

The show is good entertainment, but I tried to read the book and had to put it down after a few chapters. I don't need a dumbass rolling stone reporter to tell me what Marines are like.

Here's a commentary about it from one of the battalion's FAC's:
commentaryongenerationkill.blogspot.com/2008/06/comments-on-generation-kill.html

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I believe the show is based off a book written by that in bedded reporter. That's "imbedded." That's "embedded"

Okay.    At least we know it's not "in bedded."  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I believe the show is based off a book written by that in bedded reporter. That's "imbedded." That's "embedded" Okay.    At least we know it's not "in bedded."

fixed to please the forum nazis

Read the book. all of this was talked about in the book. The inbedded reporter was from Rolling Stone magazine. The book was based on a series of articles he wrote. yes, the supply system was fucked, yes, the Marines acted like typical 18-21 year olds put in a hostile situation.

Quoted: Quoted: One of my buddies said that he did not see his first set of desert BDU's till he was ready to board the plane home. of course he was an MP and not a frontline soldier for the most part. BTW this was Desert Shield/Desert Storm 91 I was a MP and I got a full set issued in 1991 and then never deployed.  I was even issued a "chocolate chip" flak vest cover.  I'm guessing it depends on the unit.

2 AD FWD (round out brigade to 1 ID) ended up receiving Desert BDU's when they returned to garrison in Germany, just in time for the homecoming parade.