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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/17/2004 3:43:16 AM EST
Hey guys,

Our student newspaper has written some really lousy AWB sunset columns the last few days, so I bitched and they said "can you do better?" So I have 7-800 words to lay out my side of the story.

My plan is to use lots of logic, simple examples and a bit of history to prove my point.

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking about countering a few of their arguments, putting forth our ideas why AW's should be around, talking about some crime statistics, etc.

I already have the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, and a stats on officer's killed.

I know there are a few other studies out there, specifically, the DOJ study that everyone was using. Anybody have these or know where I can get them?

Any info would be helpful. When my article runs, I'll post for all to see.

Thanks everyone, with your help, maybe we'll be able to help a few people in our town see the light.

-Adrian
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:29:40 AM EST
No studies, but make sure to point out that "one in five officers killed" figure includes guns that are NOT assault rifles, like Garands, M1 Carbines, and Tec-9s. And PLEASE make the distinction between full auto and "assault weapons" covered under the ban, and do it clearly enough so a 5 year old could understand it...because when it comes to trying to undo the mass media brainwashing, that's the level of sophistication required. Good Luck!

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:35:46 AM EST
When i was an under grad I contacted the NRA to get some info on a gun control assignment I was writing. They were very helpful. I would suggest you point out the very small number of offenders that were actually prosecuted for violating the AWB. It seems to me that if the ban were an effective crime fighting tool, it would have been used by crime fighters to lock up bad guys. It was not.

I know the Justice Dept did a study on the effectiveness of the AWB. They determine it was not worth a shit. (They used more sophisticated language, though). The NRA should be able to get you a copy of this also.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:43:50 AM EST
www.gunfacts.info
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:48:51 AM EST
BTW, don't forget to mention THE 2ND AMENDMENT!

Good luck!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:51:35 AM EST
Adrian:

Found another good site.

Gun cites

Gun cites on "Assault Weapons"

I can't wait to read your editorial!! Thanks for putting in the work and taking the lead on this.

You truly are the Minister of Information.



Corey
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:55:34 AM EST
I agree with SIGNAL4L,

I would suggest you point out the very small number of offenders that were actually prosecuted for violating the AWB
. Point out the fact that the ANTI-RIGHTS groups have said there would be carnage and blood in the streets this past Monday and that there will be ak 47's and uzi's on the streets. Personally, I have been looking for 4 days now and have not found carnage, blood, ak47's, or uzi's on or in the streets.


Iso
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:00:49 AM EST
Here are some DOJ "AWB" stats.

FACT: "Assault Weapons" are RARELY ever used in crimes -

Guns Used In Crimes:
10 Most Frequently Traced Guns Used In Crimes In 1994:
1) Lorcin P25 (pistol)
2) Davis Ind. P380 (pistol)
3) Raven Arms MP25 (pistol)
4) Lorcin L25 (pistol)
5) Mossberg 500 (shotgun)
6) Phoenix Arms Raven (pistol)
7) Jennings J22 (pistol)
8) Ruger P89 (pistol)
9) Glock 17 (pistol)
10) Bryco 38 (pistol)

Guns Used In Crimes:
10 Most Frequently Traced Guns in 2000:
1. Smith and Wesson .38 revolver
2. Ruger 9 mm semiautomatic pistol
3. Lorcin Engineering .380 semiautomatic pistol
4. Raven Arms .25 semiautomatic pistol
5. Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun
6. Smith and Wesson 9mm semiautomatic pistol
7. Smith and Wesson .357 revolver
8. Bryco Arms 9mm semiautomatic pistol
9. Bryco Arms .380 semiautomatic pistol
10. Davis Industries .380 semiautomatic pistol


FACT: "Assault Weapons are RARELY ever used to kill police officers -

Calibers Most Often Used To Kill Police Officers:
Firearm Caliber and % Of LEOs Killed -
* .38 caliber handgun - 25.2%
* .357 magnum handgun - 12.1%
* 9mm handgun - 9.5%
* 12 gauge shotgun - 7.4%
* .22 caliber handgun - 5.4%
* .22 caliber rifle - 4.4%


According to the Dept. of Justice; Firearm Use by Offender, 1997 Data...

FACT: "Assault weapons" are RARELY possessed by criminals during commission of a
crime -
State and Federal prison inmates armed during the crime for which they are being
incarcerated:
* 9.9% of state and 7.3% of federal inmates possessed "single-shot" firearms.
* 7.9% of state and 7.7% of federal inmates possessed conventional semiautomatic
firearm.
* 1.5% of state and 1.7% of federal inmates possessed military-style semi-auto
or full-auto firearms.


FACT: "Assault weapons" are RARELY involved in ANY crimes -
State and Federal prison inmates who have ever possessed firearms during ANY
crime: (table 2)
* 14.2% of state and 10.6% of federal inmates possessed "single-shot" firearm
during ANY crime.
* 10.9% of state and 9.8% of federal inmates possessed conventional
semiautomatic firearm during ANY crime.
* 2.5% of state and 2.3% of federal inmates possessed military-style semi-auto
or full-auto firearms during ANY crime.


FACT: "Assault weapons" possessed by criminals during crimes are usually
obtained ILLEGALLY -
Of State prison inmates who possessed military-style semi-auto or full-auto
firearms in crimes for which they are incarcerated:
* 48.5% obtained them through illegal sources (theft, drug dealer, black market,
etc.)
* 25.2% obtained them from family or friend.
* 19.3% obtained them from retail sale.
* 1.9% obtained them from gun shows.


Also from the same source DOJ source:

FACT: "Assault weapons" that are possessed during a crime are the LEAST LIKELY
type of firearm to be actually discharged during the crime.

FACT: "Assault weapons" that are possessed during a crime are the LEAST LIKELY
type of firearm to be used to injure the victim.

FACT: "Assault weapons" that are possessed during a crime are the LEAST LIKELY
type of firearm to be used to kill the victim.


FACT: The "Assault Weapon" Ban Did NOT Reduce The Number Of Officers Killed In
The Line Of Duty -

Six years prior to "Assault Weapon" Ban:
Year....Total LEOs Killed...By Handguns...By Other Guns...By Other Methods
1988..................78.......................63......................13....................2
1989..................66.......................40......................17....................9
1990..................66.......................48.......................9....................9
1991..................71.......................50......................18....................3
1992..................64.......................44......................11....................9
1993..................70.......................50......................17....................3
TOTALS...........415......................295......................85...................35

Six years after "Assault Weapon" Ban:
Year....Total LEOs Killed...By Handguns...By Other Guns...By Other Methods
1995..................74.......................43......................19...................12
1996..................61.......................50.......................7....................4
1997..................70.......................49......................18....................3
1998..................61.......................40......................18....................3
1999..................42.......................25......................16....................1
2000..................51.......................33......................14....................4
TOTALS...........355......................240......................92...................26

CHANGE......(-14%).................(-19%)................(+8%)...........(-26%)

Source: US Dept. Justice, Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed
* The number of police killed by non-handgun firearms (which includes "assault
weapons") has NOT decreased since the passing of the "assault weapon" ban in
1994 but in fact has INCREASED since the passage of the AWB.


FACT:The Final Report On The Effectiveness Of The "Assault Weapon" Ban Showed
That It "FAILED" To Reduce Gun-Crime -

Quotes from Final Report:
"We were unable to detect any reduction to date in two types of gun murders that
are thought to be closely associated with assault weapons, those with multiple
victims in a single incident and those producing multiple bullet wounds per
victim. We did find a reduction in killings of police officers since mid-1995.
However, the available data are partial and preliminary, and the trends may have
been influenced by law enforcement agency policies regarding bullet-proof
vests."

5.2.3. Assault Weapons and Crime -
"...assault weapons do not appear to be used disproportionately in violent crime
relative to other guns"

"Overall, assault weapons accounted for about 1% of guns associated with
homicides, aggravated assaults, and robberies" and "only 2% of guns associated
with drug crimes were assault weapons."

5.2.4. Unbanned Handguns Capable of Accepting Large-capacity Magazines -
"The ban on large-capacity magazines does not seem to have discouraged the use
of these guns."

6.2.1. Trends in Multiple-Victim Gun Homicides -
"...failed to produce any evidence that the ban reduced the number of victims
per gun homicide incident."

6.3.4. Conclusions -
"...failed to produce evidence of a post-ban reduction in the average number of
gunshot wounds per case or in the proportion of cases involving multiple
wounds."

6.4.2. Assault Weapons and Homicides of Police Officers -
"In sum, police officers are rarely murdered with assault weapons."

Source: "Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use
Protection Act of 1994"

Now having said all that...

Arguing crime statistics falls right into the Antis hands because it causes you
to abandon the most basic principle of freedom - that our individual rights are
NOT dispensed by Gov't and so the Gov't has no authority to restrict law-abiding
people from exercising their rights - including the peaceful possession of
simple firearms.

OUR RIGHTS ARE NOT PREDICATED ON THE MOST RECENT CRIME STATISTICS!

Our RIGHTS do not ebb and flow or come and go with the annual crime reports.

Our RIGHTS do not depend upon what today's gangbangers decide to do to get their
latest crack fix.

Our RIGHTS are not contingent upon, qualified by nor based on what CRIMINALS use
to commit crimes!

Our RIGHTS are derived from natural law, specifically protected by the
Constitution and are NOT dependant on the findings in any crime studies!!!

Banning the possession of "assault weapons" because of some crime statistics is
like banning the use of cars because of drunk drivers or like banning the
possession of the Koran because of 9-11.



HS1









| |
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:03:37 AM EST
This is part of a post by The_Macallan from this thread hope some of it helps.(and the link to the report works.)


And here's the DEFINITIVE report on the effectiveness of the "Assault Weapon" Ban on gun-murders and number of LEO's killed:
"Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994"

The Final Report On The Effectiveness Of The "Assault Weapon" Ban Showed That It "FAILED" To Reduce Gun-Crime -

Quotes from Final Report:
"We were unable to detect any reduction to date in two types of gun murders that are thought to be closely associated with assault weapons, those with multiple victims in a single incident and those producing multiple bullet wounds per victim. We did find a reduction in killings of police officers since mid-1995. However, the available data are partial and preliminary, and the trends may have been influenced by law enforcement agency policies regarding bullet-proof vests."

5.2.3. Assault Weapons and Crime -
"...assault weapons do not appear to be used disproportionately in violent crime relative to other guns"
"Overall, assault weapons accounted for about 1% of guns associated with homicides, aggravated assaults, and robberies" and
"only 2% of guns associated with drug crimes were assault weapons."

5.2.4. Unbanned Handguns Capable of Accepting Large-capacity Magazines -
"The ban on large-capacity magazines does not seem to have discouraged the use of these guns."

6.2.1. Trends in Multiple-Victim Gun Homicides -
"[Studies] failed to produce any evidence that the ban reduced the number of victims per gun homicide incident."

6.3.4. Conclusions -
"[Studies] failed to produce evidence of a post-ban reduction in the average number of gunshot wounds per case or in the proportion of cases involving multiple wounds."

6.4.2. Assault Weapons and Homicides of Police Officers -
"In sum, police officers are rarely murdered with assault weapons."


Link Posted: 9/17/2004 6:12:45 AM EST
An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003

An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003 Report to the National Institute of Justice, United States Department of Justice By Christopher S. Koper (Principal Investigator) With Daniel J. Woods and Jeffrey A. Roth June 2004

102 pages

PREFACE Gun violence continues to be one of America’s most serious crime problems. In 2000, over 10,000 persons were murdered with firearms and almost 49,000 more were shot in the course of over 340,000 assaults and robberies with guns (see the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s annual Uniform Crime Reports and Simon et al., 2002). The total costs of gun violence in the United States – including medical, criminal justice, and other government and private costs – are on the order of at least $6 to $12 billion per year and, by more controversial estimates, could be as high as $80 billion per year (Cook and Ludwig, 2000).

However, there has been good news in recent years. Police statistics and national victimization surveys show that since the early 1990s, gun crime has plummeted to some of the lowest levels in decades (see the Uniform Crime Reports and Rennison, 2001). Have gun controls contributed to this decline, and, if so, which ones?

During the last decade, the federal government has undertaken a number of initiatives to suppress gun crime. These include, among others, the establishment of a national background check system for gun buyers (through the Brady Act), reforms of the licensing system for firearms dealers, a ban on juvenile handgun possession, and Project Safe Neighborhoods, a collaborative effort between U.S. Attorneys and local authorities to attack local gun crime problems and enhance punishment for gun offenders.

Perhaps the most controversial of these federal initiatives was the ban on semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines enacted as Title XI, Subtitle A of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. This law prohibits a relatively small group of weapons considered by ban advocates to be particularly dangerous and attractive for criminal purposes. In this report, we investigate the ban’s impacts on gun crime through the late 1990s and beyond. This study updates a prior report on the short-term effects of the ban (1994-1996) that members of this research team prepared for the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Congress (Roth and Koper, 1997; 1999).


www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/jlc-new/Research/Koper_aw_final.pdf


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
olde reports:

Citation URL: www.urban.org/url.cfm?ID=406797

IMPACT EVALUATION OF THE
PUBLIC SAFETY AND
RECREATIONAL FIREARMS
USE PROTECTION ACT OF 1994
Final Report

March 13, 1997
Jeffrey A. Roth and
Christopher S. Koper
with William Adams, Sonja
Johnson, John Marcotte, John
McGready, Andrew Scott,
Maria Valera, and Douglas
Wissoker

Supported under award #95-IJ-CX-0111 from the National Institute of Justice,
Office
of Justice Programs, U.S. Department of Justice. Points of view in this
document are
those of the author(s) and do not necessarily represent the official position
of the U.S. Department of Justice.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

the NIJ hosts the 12 page:
ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/173405.pdf

R e s e a r c h i n B r i e f
National Institute of Justice
Jeremy Travis, Director

Impacts of the 1994 Assault
Weapons Ban: 1994â96
by Jeffrey A. Roth and Christopher S. Koper


March 1999

The legislation required the Attorney
General to deliver to Congress within
30 months an evaluation of the effects of
the ban. To meet this requirement, the
National Institute of Justice (NIJ) funded
research from October 1995 to December
1996 to evaluate the impact of Subtitle A.

This Research in Brief summarizes the
results of that evaluation.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:00:00 AM EST
Awesome stuff guys, thanks. I'm doing lots of reading now and making some notes. There is so much information, and so many FACTS on our side that I could write a book, hell- lots of books on this. I think the harderst part will be condensing it to 800 words and keeping it simple enough for any idiot to understand.

If anyone has anything else of use, keep it coming. Thanks again!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:40:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 11:45:45 AM EST by doc_Zox]
Ban on assault weapons didn't reduce violence
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040816-114754-1427r.htm
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published August 17, 2004
The federal assault-weapons ban, scheduled to expire in September, is not responsible for the nation's steady decline in gun-related violence and its renewal likely will achieve little, according to an independent study commissioned by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ).
    "We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence. And, indeed, there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence," said the unreleased NIJ report, written by Christopher Koper, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
    "It is thus premature to make definitive assessments of the ban's impact on gun violence. Should it be renewed, the ban's effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement," said the report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Times.
    The report also noted that assault weapons were "rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban."
    NIJ is the Justice Department's research, development and evaluation agency -- assigned the job of providing objective, independent, evidence-based information to the department through independent studies and other data collection activities.
    The assault-weapons ban is set to expire Sept. 13, and at least six bills reauthorizing it are pending in the Senate and House.
    The issue has sparked nationwide debate: The National Rifle Association has called the ban ineffective in curbing crime and a violation of the Second Amendment, while gun-control advocates have said the nation's streets will be filled with automatic weapons if the ban is not reauthorized.
    The assault-weapons ban imposed a 10-year moratorium on the "manufacture, transfer and possession" of certain semiautomatic firearms designated as assault weapons. It banned 18 models and variations by name, as well as revolving-cylinder shotguns, and prohibited flash hiders, folding rifle stocks and threaded barrels for attaching silencers.
    A number of the banned weapons were foreign semiautomatic rifles that have been barred from importation into the United States since 1989. The ban also prohibited most ammunition magazines holding more than 10 rounds.
    According to recent surveys by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), firearms-related crime has declined to record levels. The violent crime rate has fallen 54 percent since 1993, and there were more than 980,000 fewer violent crimes in 2002 than in 2000.
    But in the past three years, according to the BJS, federal gun prosecutions have increased by 68 percent, with the number of persons charged with federal firearms offenses rising by more than 22 percent in fiscal 2003, the largest single-year increase ever recorded.
    The 102-page NIJ report said the assault-weapons ban was intended to "reduce gunshot victimizations by limiting the national stock of semiautomatic firearms with large ammunition capacities," although it said the automatic-weapons provision of the bill targeted a "relatively small number of weapons" based on features that had little to do with the weapons' operation.
    The report said the removal of those features, such as detachable high-capacity magazines, was "sufficient to make the weapons legal."
    In 1994, when the ban was approved by Congress, 1.5 million privately owned assault weapons were thought to be in the United States. The report said assault weapons were used in 2 percent of gun crimes reported nationwide before enactment of the 1994 ban. It also said assault weapons and other guns equipped with large-capacity magazines accounted for a higher share of the guns used to kill police officers and in mass public shootings, although such incidents were "very rare."
    The report said the relatively rare use of assault weapons in crimes was attributable to a number of factors: Most assault weapons are rifles, which are used much less often than handguns, a number of the weapons were barred from importation before the ban was enacted, and the weapons are expensive and difficult to conceal.
    "The ban's success in reducing criminal use of the banned guns and magazines has been mixed," the report said, noting that because the ban had not yet reduced the use of large-capacity magazines in crime, researchers could not "clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence."
    The report said although the ban's reauthorization or expiration could affect gunshot victimizations, predictions were "tenuous." It said restricting the flow of large-capacity magazines into the United States from abroad might be necessary to achieve the ban's desired effects.
    But it said it was not known whether mandating further design changes in the outward features of semiautomatic weapons -- such as removing all military-style features -- would produce measurable benefits beyond restricting ammunition capacity.
    Past experience also suggests that congressional discussion of broadening the assault-weapons ban to new models or features would raise prices and production of the weapons being considered, the report said, adding that if the ban were lifted, gun and magazine manufacturers could reintroduce weapons and magazines in substantial numbers. But, the report said, any resulting increase in crimes with assault weapons and large-capacity magazines might increase gunshot victimizations, "though this effect could be difficult to measure."

833 words
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:25:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By doc_Zox:
An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003

An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003 Report to the National Institute of Justice, United States Department of Justice By Christopher S. Koper (Principal Investigator) With Daniel J. Woods and Jeffrey A. Roth June 2004
.
.
.

That report is so chock full of "could have", "maybe", "may not be" and "perhaps", that it really says almost nothing at all.

The only definitive statements that can be gleaned from this are:

"...we cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence."

"...there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence, based on indicators like percentage of gun crimes resulting in death or share of gunfire incidents resulting in injury, as we might have expected had the ban reduced crimes committed with AWs (assault weapons) and LCMs (large-capacity magazines)."

"Thus, it is premature to make definitive assessments of the ban's impact on gun violence."

"...evidence on these matters is too limited (both in volume and quality) to make firm projections of the ban's impact, should it be reauthorized."



BOTTOMLINE:

There's no evidence whatsoever that the "Assault Weapon" Ban reduced any facet of gun crimes. Period.


Link Posted: 9/18/2004 3:50:40 AM EST
HighStrung1--


Great job putting together that info. We should all use that to politely reinforce our position
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