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Posted: 3/11/2006 7:54:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 7:54:27 AM EDT by The_Macallan]

Police: U.S. hostage shot, tortured

American hostage Tom Fox -- who was kidnapped with three other Christian peace activists in November -- has been found shot in the head with his body showing signs of torture, Iraqi emergency police told CNN Saturday..
.
.

Doug Pritchard, co-director of Christian Peacemaker Teams in Toronto, said the humanitarian organization planned to maintain its presence in Iraq, at least until the fate of the other captives is known. The group has five workers in the country in addition to the remaining captives.

"We know the risks involved. It's very much a part of our training," Pritchard told a news conference late Friday.

He and Chicago co-director Carol Rose blamed the U.S. involvement in Iraq, backed by Britain, for the captives' dilemma, and urged both nations to release detained Iraqis.
.
.
.


Wow. Absolutely stunning how mentally warped these people are.

Do they blame the murderers? No. They blame the people trying to STOP the murderers.

Do they blame the kidnappers? No. They blame the people trying to PROTECT innocent people from kidnapping.

Do they blame the torturers? No. They blame the UNITED STATES for this guy VOLUNTARILY CHOOSING to go into a war zone that he KNOWS is filled with murderers, kidnappers, torturers and terrorists who cut the heads off innocent civilians.

Up is down, right is wrong, black is white and the criminal is the victim.


Liberalism is a mental disease - pure and simple.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:57:07 AM EDT
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:20:29 AM EDT
Such is how children are being brought up these days here
One good example is all the phony psychological disorders recently invented so that normal people don't have to deal with their normal problems.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:25:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.



You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:30:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Police: U.S. hostage shot, tortured

American hostage Tom Fox -- who was kidnapped with three other Christian peace activists in November -- has been found shot in the head with his body showing signs of torture, Iraqi emergency police told CNN Saturday..

Doug Pritchard, co-director of Christian Peacemaker Teams in Toronto, said the humanitarian organization planned to maintain its presence in Iraq, at least until the fate of the other captives is known. The group has five workers in the country in addition to the remaining captives.

"We know the risks involved. It's very much a part of our training," Pritchard told a news conference late Friday.

He and Chicago co-director Carol Rose blamed the U.S. involvement in Iraq, backed by Britain, for the captives' dilemma, and urged both nations to release detained Iraqis.


Wow. Absolutely stunning how mentally warped these people are.

Do they blame the murderers? No. They blame the people trying to STOP the murderers.

Do they blame the kidnappers? No. They blame the people trying to PROTECT innocent people from kidnapping.

Do they blame the torturers? No. They blame the UNITED STATES for this guy VOLUNTARILY CHOOSING to go into a war zone that he KNOWS is filled with murderers, kidnappers, torturers and terrorists who cut the heads off innocent civilians.

Up is down, right is wrong, black is white and the criminal is the victim.

Liberalism is a mental disease - pure and simple.


Agreeing with you is becoming habit.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:31:51 AM EDT
It kind of odd that they blame Bush and America. I don't recall the military flying plane loads of peace loving assholes anywhere lately. When I flew in,,,,all we had was GI's.

This asshole got what he deserved, next time stay the hell home.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:32:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 8:37:28 AM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.

You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

WTF!???

So you believe this guy was drafted and forced to go into a war zone against his will and that the terrorists who targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an INNOCENT man are blameless "victims" of GWBush and that they're FORCED to kidnapp, torture and behead innocent civilians!??

Wow - I guess you think GWBush has some kind of super-omnipotent power that he can erase the free will of this guy as well as the terrorists and FORCE him to go into a war zone and FORCE the terrorists to kidnap, torture and murder him.

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?


Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:41:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.

You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

WTF!???

So you believe this guy was drafted and forced to go into a war zone against his will and that the terrorists who targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an INNOCENT man are blameless "victims" of GWBush and that they're FORCED to kidnapp, torture and behead innocent civilians!??

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?





No, I believe those folks are saying, the guy would be alive if we hadn't screwed up. They're right. If we hadn't screwed up it wouldn't be a "war zone", would it?? They wouldn't be taking and killing folks if we never invaded.

Get it??

Tell me, mac. If the chinese invaded us, but screwed up the "intelligence", would you fight 'em???

Or would you collaborate with the invader, because they "meant well"???????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm???
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:42:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.



You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

I see your back off your meds again
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:48:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.



You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

I see your back off your meds again



A lot of Americans would be alive, if I had my way before all this started. (Not to mention the maimed, and the money). Seems to me, you were one of the many who have been all wrong about this from the get-go.

Meds??? Is THAT all you got??????????? !!!!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:53:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 9:13:40 AM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.

You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

WTF!???

So you believe this guy was drafted and forced to go into a war zone against his will and that the terrorists who targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an INNOCENT man are blameless "victims" of GWBush and that they're FORCED to kidnapp, torture and behead innocent civilians!??

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?





No, I believe those folks are saying, the guy would be alive if we hadn't screwed up. They're right.

They're wrong and so are you.

That's like blaming the police for the Rodney King riots instead of the rioters themselves.

But thanks for sharing your moral-relativistic view of shifting the blame away from the murderering criminals because of your anti-Bush politics.




Originally Posted By liberty86:
If we hadn't screwed up it wouldn't be a "war zone", would it??

Red Herring.

If the terrorists hadn't targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an innocent man, he'd still be alive today. THAT'S the point.

Stop aiding and abetting the enemy and excusing the murderers for the sake of your political opinions of the war.

Perpetuating the support for the terrorists' position only gets more of our people killed. Are you happy about supporting those terrorists who continue to kill our troops every day? Because that's what you're doing.

BTW... OT: If Iraq hadn't moved it's WMDs to Syria (like their military leaders have said they did) we'd have found them inside Iraq already.

Back on topic - Blaming anyone and everyone else EXCEPT the kidnapper, torturer and murderer for the deliberate kidnapping, torture and murder of an innocent man is evil.



Originally Posted By liberty86:
Tell me, mac. If the chinese invaded us, but screwed up the "intelligence", would you fight 'em??


Newsflash: We don't live in a military dictatorship with millions of our relatives and friends buried in mass graves. Your lame attempts at trying to compare Saddam's Iraq to America today are not just apples and oranges, it's apples and meteors.

And no, I wouldn't kidnap, torture or murder innocent people trying to stop that "invasion". But I guess YOU would.

So you go right ahead and continue to shift blame away from the murderer for the sake of your political opinions of the war.



Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:03:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
snip

Wow - I guess you think GWBush has some kind of super-omnipotent power that he can erase the free will of this guy as well as the terrorists and FORCE him to go into a war zone and FORCE the terrorists to kidnap, torture and murder him.

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?



Dude - YOU are SLIPPING. If ChimpyMcBusHilterBurton can make the Haliburton Hurricane Machine target those Black people he hates so much without at all harming The Privileged Race (Whites - duh), then he can CERTAINLY force civilian peace activists to get on a plane and commit themselves to the ever-loving Will of Allah and His Divine Hand.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:06:06 AM EDT
And the lion shall lay down by the lamb "Yeah Right" kiss my but , how many soldiers lives did this guy compromise. We can't get the job done and get our people home until people like this get out of the way. To win this war or any war we are going to have to develope the attitude of the enemy that we are fighting. Cold , brutal overwhelming force is the only thing that is understood by people or religeons. We cannot fight and win a war against backward nations unless we adopt a backwards attitude. We have just become too civilized when it comes to fighting an enemy eyeball to eyeball. Lets line up some of their people and execute them on CNN ,maybe this would start their learning process. Like Sadam said , "I did nothing wrong i just killed the people who were trying to kill me" MY 2 cents
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:12:26 AM EDT
L86,

What did we do to China to cause them to attack us? Saddam invaded an ally. He refused to abide by the terms of surrender. That means we can deal with him when ever we wish. Would you rather we had started with Iran? Or Saudi Arabia? Iraq was a brilliant move. It was a secular island in the middle of mulla land. This is a war against criminal clerics. They don't fear death, in fact they welcome it. World war would suit them. How would you have fought them?? Let's hear it?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:28:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
snip

Wow - I guess you think GWBush has some kind of super-omnipotent power that he can erase the free will of this guy as well as the terrorists and FORCE him to go into a war zone and FORCE the terrorists to kidnap, torture and murder him.

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?

Dude - YOU are SLIPPING. If ChimpyMcBusHilterBurton can make the Haliburton Hurricane Machine target those Black people he hates so much without at all harming The Privileged Race (Whites - duh), then he can CERTAINLY force civilian peace activists to get on a plane and commit themselves to the ever-loving Will of Allah and His Divine Hand.


Damn you're right.

I forgot about that "Free Will Eraser" selector switch on the HHM.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:30:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Police: U.S. hostage shot, tortured

American hostage Tom Fox -- who was kidnapped with three other Christian peace activists in November -- has been found shot in the head with his body showing signs of torture, Iraqi emergency police told CNN Saturday..

Doug Pritchard, co-director of Christian Peacemaker Teams in Toronto, said the humanitarian organization planned to maintain its presence in Iraq, at least until the fate of the other captives is known. The group has five workers in the country in addition to the remaining captives.

"We know the risks involved. It's very much a part of our training," Pritchard told a news conference late Friday.

He and Chicago co-director Carol Rose blamed the U.S. involvement in Iraq, backed by Britain, for the captives' dilemma, and urged both nations to release detained Iraqis.


Wow. Absolutely stunning how mentally warped these people are.

Do they blame the murderers? No. They blame the people trying to STOP the murderers.

Do they blame the kidnappers? No. They blame the people trying to PROTECT innocent people from kidnapping.

Do they blame the torturers? No. They blame the UNITED STATES for this guy VOLUNTARILY CHOOSING to go into a war zone that he KNOWS is filled with murderers, kidnappers, torturers and terrorists who cut the heads off innocent civilians.

Up is down, right is wrong, black is white and the criminal is the victim.

Liberalism is a mental disease - pure and simple.


Agreeing with you is becoming habit.



+1
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:46:48 AM EDT
He would be alive if he had observed the multitude of warnings that our government has issued about traveling in Iraq.

Excuse us, we're having a war here, you may want to visit elsewhere.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:09:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Do they blame the murderers? No. They blame the people trying to STOP the murderers.

Do they blame the kidnappers? No. They blame the people trying to PROTECT innocent people from kidnapping.

Do they blame the torturers? No. They blame the UNITED STATES for this guy VOLUNTARILY CHOOSING to go into a war zone that he KNOWS is filled with murderers, kidnappers, torturers and terrorists who cut the heads off innocent civilians.



Of course it's Bush's fault!

If the US/GB/et al weren't there, these peacemongers could go about their happy, rose-colored little lives ignoring whatever atrocities were being committed in Iraq. Just like when Saddam Hussein was in charge. But since we are there, they've been jolted out of their weird little worlds. And they don't like it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:23:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.



You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........



Poor little innocent Sadam.
The mans done nothing wrong. Never has.

Right, liberty86???


WRONG!

I have a good idea. Maybe you should volunteer to go over there and make things right.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:32:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 10:33:02 AM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
If the US/GB/et al weren't there, these peacemongers could go about their happy, rose-colored little lives ignoring whatever atrocities were being committed in Iraq. Just like when Saddam Hussein was in charge.


No you see when millions of innocent people are rounded up and buried in mass graves - the peacenik hippies blame us for not stopping it.

And when we DO go in to try to stop it, the peacenik hippies blame us for illegally "meddling" in other people's lives based on "lies".


Such is the warped belief system of the stuck-in-the-sixties idiots.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:38:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
If the US/GB/et al weren't there, these peacemongers could go about their happy, rose-colored little lives ignoring whatever atrocities were being committed in Iraq. Just like when Saddam Hussein was in charge.


No you see when millions of innocent people are rounded up and buried in mass graves - the peacenik hippies blame us for not stopping it.

And when we DO go in to try to stop it, the peacenik hippies blame us for illegally "meddling" in other people's lives based on "lies".


Such is the warped belief system of the stuck-in-the-sixties idiots.



Damn. You got me. You're right. I didn't think if threw completely.

Fuckn' whiners aren't happy unless they're whining. That's it!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:42:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:24:41 AM EDT
It is bush's fault if it wasnt for him we wouldnt be there and hated by so many other countries. For sticking our nose in others business.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:26:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:31:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 11:32:05 AM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By Spyda:
L86,

What did we do to China to cause them to attack us? Saddam invaded an ally. He refused to abide by the terms of surrender. That means we can deal with him when ever we wish. Would you rather we had started with Iran? Or Saudi Arabia? Iraq was a brilliant move. It was a secular island in the middle of mulla land. This is a war against criminal clerics. They don't fear death, in fact they welcome it. World war would suit them. How would you have fought them?? Let's hear it?



What do you do when one of your allies invades another one of your allies?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:33:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:14:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.

You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

WTF!???

So you believe this guy was drafted and forced to go into a war zone against his will and that the terrorists who targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an INNOCENT man are blameless "victims" of GWBush and that they're FORCED to kidnapp, torture and behead innocent civilians!??

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?





No, I believe those folks are saying, the guy would be alive if we hadn't screwed up. They're right.

They're wrong and so are you.

That's like blaming the police for the Rodney King riots instead of the rioters themselves.

But thanks for sharing your moral-relativistic view of shifting the blame away from the murderering criminals because of your anti-Bush politics.


What a steaming pile!! I damn sure do not support any internationalist, nor anyone who does not support the Constitution!! Your comparison to king is ludicrous, and YOU know it. Fact is, if king hadn't driven a car, there would have been NO riots!!






Originally Posted By liberty86:
If we hadn't screwed up it wouldn't be a "war zone", would it??

Red Herring.

If the terrorists hadn't targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an innocent man, he'd still be alive today. THAT'S the point.

Stop aiding and abetting the enemy and excusing the murderers for the sake of your political opinions of the war.


Stop using bullshit hyperboly......



Perpetuating the support for the terrorists' position only gets more of our people killed. Are you happy about supporting those terrorists who continue to kill our troops every day? Because that's what you're doing.


More crap, if I had my way, US troops wouldn't be in that shithole........ Are you happy they're getting killed?? You sent 'em there...





BTW... OT: If Iraq hadn't moved it's WMDs to Syria (like their military leaders have said they did) we'd have found them inside Iraq already.

Another steaming pile...



Back on topic - Blaming anyone and everyone else EXCEPT the kidnapper, torturer and murderer for the deliberate kidnapping, torture and murder of an innocent man is evil.



Originally Posted By liberty86:
Tell me, mac. If the chinese invaded us, but screwed up the "intelligence", would you fight 'em??


Newsflash: We don't live in a military dictatorship with millions of our relatives and friends buried in mass graves. Your lame attempts at trying to compare Saddam's Iraq to America today are not just apples and oranges, it's apples and meteors.

And no, I wouldn't kidnap, torture or murder innocent people trying to stop that "invasion". But I guess YOU would.

So you go right ahead and continue to shift blame away from the murderer for the sake of your political opinions of the war.






Political opinions??? What a joke!!! War is not politics, youngster. It's blood, gore, and treasure. Some wars are worth it, some are not.

What is "evil", was putting American soldiers in that shithole in the first place. What's "evil", is a president who thinks American soldiers blood can replace the saving blood of Christ, by saving the world......

What is "evil", is a phoney war, with wide open borders, inviting the next attack. What is "evil", is the real perps of 9/11 go free. What is "evil", is the lack of accountability, in the US govt.

What is "evil", is the belief that US blood can, (or should), free ANYONE!!! (Unless, of course, one is a globalist.... )
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:19:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rock7:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.



You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........



Poor little innocent Sadam.
The mans done nothing wrong. Never has.

Right, liberty86???


WRONG!

I have a good idea. Maybe you should volunteer to go over there and make things right.




Unlike some liberals, I don't run around worrying about what some dictator is doing to his own. I don't give a shit if he kills his whole population, any more than I care about problems in France.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:34:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.

You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

WTF!???

So you believe this guy was drafted and forced to go into a war zone against his will and that the terrorists who targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an INNOCENT man are blameless "victims" of GWBush and that they're FORCED to kidnapp, torture and behead innocent civilians!??

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?





No, I believe those folks are saying, the guy would be alive if we hadn't screwed up. They're right. If we hadn't screwed up it wouldn't be a "war zone", would it?? They wouldn't be taking and killing folks if we never invaded.

Get it??

Tell me, mac. If the chinese invaded us, but screwed up the "intelligence", would you fight 'em???

Or would you collaborate with the invader, because they "meant well"???????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm???

Ahh yes, there you go again. Having more empathy for our enemy then you do for your fellow citizens.

Yes, if the Chinese invaded...

The first thing I'd do is kidnap foreigners. Chinese, Indian, Korean, etc..
Then I'd behead them.
THAT would teach those sneaky Chinese.

Yes, no doubt an invasion would make me commit atrocities so horrid, I can never imagine do such things.

You STILL suck.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:36:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.


You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........


Duncan,

I don't have time to read the whole thread right now; I'm trying to get out of town. I'm basically just tagging this thread until I have time tonight, but:

First off, my sig on another msgboard is "Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?" --George Washington, from his farewell address (link)

All that said, regardless of whether this was "the right war, at the right time, [blah, blah, blah]," the reason they were kidnapped is that they were there in the first place.

Don't agree with the war? Fine -- don't enlist; run for office, lobby, and try to affect change. Don't want to get kidnapped? Fine, too -- but don't go over there.

It really is that simple.

If Sean Penn had put his money where his mouth was and actually been a human shield, he couldn't [logically] then fault U.S. involvement for getting cluster bombed (by us) or kidnapped (by them).

Personal responsibility. I'm just sayin'............
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:42:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Spyda:
L86,

What did we do to China to cause them to attack us? Saddam invaded an ally. He refused to abide by the terms of surrender. That means we can deal with him when ever we wish. Would you rather we had started with Iran? Or Saudi Arabia? Iraq was a brilliant move. It was a secular island in the middle of mulla land. This is a war against criminal clerics. They don't fear death, in fact they welcome it. World war would suit them. How would you have fought them?? Let's hear it?



What do you do when one of your allies invades another one of your allies?



Stand back and let them teach Argentinia a lesson in humility.



Actually you give them what they ask for... like the latest missiles, logistical support, access to your spy satellite info ect…
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:44:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
What do you do when one of your allies invades another one of your allies?


At the time Iraq invaded Kuwait, it was not one of our "allies". Not for quite a few years.

And even then, during the Iran-Iraq war, it was never really considered an "ally" of ours.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:51:10 PM EDT
That's also part of the warped mind syndrome.

The confusion that Iraq was our great "ally".
This idiocy was hand in hand with the absolute belief that we suppied Saddam with weapons, and ESPECIALLY with all of his dreaded WMD.
Of course it didn't take long for jackasses like Duncan to switch from INSISTING that WE gave Saddam WMD, to INSISTING that they never, ever existed.

No I don't know about you, but when I was in Iraq, all I saw were Soviet weapons, Chinese, a few FRENCH items, and an occaisional South African arty shell.
No American weapons. None.

Maybe he hid all of those, too?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:57:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 2:10:42 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By liberty86:
Political opinions??? What a joke!!! War is not politics, youngster. It's blood, gore, and treasure. Some wars are worth it, some are not.

What is "evil", was putting American soldiers in that shithole in the first place. What's "evil", is a president who thinks American soldiers blood can replace the saving blood of Christ, by saving the world......

What is "evil", is a phoney war, with wide open borders, inviting the next attack. What is "evil", is the real perps of 9/11 go free. What is "evil", is the lack of accountability, in the US govt.

What is "evil", is the belief that US blood can, (or should), free ANYONE!!! (Unless, of course, one is a globalist.... )


In all that - you simply continue to excuse, justify, condone and support the premeditated and deliberate kidnapping, torture and murder an innocent civilians and continue to imply that you would the same thing. That you would look for an unarmed peace-worker, kidnap them, torture them and then shoot them in the back of head...... if and because the Chinese invaded.

Well try this one on for size pal - in another thread you vented a lot of rage for illegal immigration "invaders" as you call them - so what do you say if we kidnapped some Charity-Church-workers here who volunteer their time to try to improve the lives of poor people along the border and we torture and kill them because you disagree with the current border policy? THAT is exactly what you are condoning - terroristic kidnapping, torture and murder of innocent civilians to make a political statement.

So go ahead - put your money where your warped beliefs are - go kidnap an unarmed Church-volunteer who helps illegal immigrants, take them out in the desert, torture them and then shoot them in the back of the head. Then you can wash your hands of responsibility and blame their murder on GWBush - you'll be an American hero.

Have a nice life.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:58:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
What do you do when one of your allies invades another one of your allies?


At the time Iraq invaded Kuwait, it was not one of our "allies". Not for quite a few years.

And even then, during the Iran-Iraq war, it was never really considered an "ally" of ours.


Such an example *did* happen to use not that long ago, however.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:05:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 2:06:49 PM EDT by Cincinnatus]
My boys and I rounded up eight guys who were involved with the beheading of a Korean journalist.
They were Iraqi.
They were Al Qaeda.
They were evil.

Bush did not CAUSE them to become such monsters.
They always had it in them.


Duncan, you simply had a shitty time in the service. Now you blame the military and the government for all YOUR problems. Problems that deep down in your heart YOU know are 100% YOUR fault.
Stop looking for scapegoats and look in the mirror.

And PLEASE stop trying to convince men who served honorably that they are somehow victims.
That's YOUR problem. YOU enjoy being a victim. Not today's vet.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:18:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 2:19:18 PM EDT by slaughter]

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.

You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

WTF!???

So you believe this guy was drafted and forced to go into a war zone against his will and that the terrorists who targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an INNOCENT man are blameless "victims" of GWBush and that they're FORCED to kidnapp, torture and behead innocent civilians!??

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?




No, I believe those folks are saying, the guy would be alive if we hadn't screwed up. They're right. If we hadn't screwed up it wouldn't be a "war zone", would it?? They wouldn't be taking and killing folks if we never invaded.

Get it??

Tell me, mac. If the chinese invaded us, but screwed up the "intelligence", would you fight 'em???

Or would you collaborate with the invader, because they "meant well"???????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm???




Liberty86

I can see you're right.

Anyone who doesn't is just a GOP puppet
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:22:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 2:23:16 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
My boys and I rounded up eight guys who were involved with the beheading of a Korean journalist.
They were Iraqi.
They were Al Qaeda.
They were evil.

Bush did not CAUSE them to become such monsters.
They always had it in them.

Thank you and you're 100% right.




Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Duncan, you simply had a shitty time in the service. Now you blame the military and the government for all YOUR problems. Problems that deep down in your heart YOU know are 100% YOUR fault.
Stop looking for scapegoats and look in the mirror.

And PLEASE stop trying to convince men who served honorably that they are somehow victims.
That's YOUR problem. YOU enjoy being a victim. Not today's vet.
You should be ashamed of yourself.


That's kind of cold. I don't know lib and disagree on some issues just as vehemently as I agree with him on other issues. I just think he's WAAAAY off-base on this topic.


Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:25:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 2:26:14 PM EDT by Billybob2002]
Yep, it is Bush and Blair's fault...

www.cpt.org/iraq/response/06-10-03statement.htm



CPT Release: CPT Release: We Mourn the Loss of Tom Fox
10 March 2006

In grief we tremble before God who wraps us with compassion. The death of our beloved colleague and friend pierces us with pain. Tom Fox’s body was found in Baghdad yesterday.

Christian Peacemaker Teams extends our deep and heartfelt condolences to the family and community of Tom Fox, with whom we have traveled so closely in these days of crisis.

We mourn the loss of Tom Fox who combined a lightness of spirit, a firm opposition to all oppression, and the recognition of God in everyone.

We renew our plea for the safe release of Harmeet Sooden, Jim Loney and Norman Kember. Each of our teammates has responded to Jesus’ prophetic call to live out a nonviolent alternative to the cycle of violence and revenge.

In response to Tom’s passing, we ask that everyone set aside inclinations to vilify or demonize others, no matter what they have done. In Tom’s own words: "We reject violence to punish anyone. We ask that there be no retaliation on relatives or property. We forgive those who consider us their enemies. We hope that in loving both friends and enemies and by intervening nonviolently to aid those who are systematically oppressed, we can contribute in some small way to transforming this volatile situation.”

Even as we grieve the loss of our beloved colleague, we stand in the light of his strong witness to the power of love and the courage of nonviolence. That light reveals the way out of fear and grief and war.

Through these days of crisis, Christian Peacemaker Teams has been surrounded and upheld by a great outpouring of compassion: messages of support, acts of mercy, prayers, and public actions offered by the most senior religious councils and by school children, by political leaders and by those organizing for justice and human rights, by friends in distant nations and by strangers near at hand. These words and actions sustain us. While one of our teammates is lost to us, the strength of this outpouring is not lost to God’s movement for just peace among all peoples.

At the forefront of that support are strong and courageous actions from Muslim brothers and sisters throughout the world for which we are profoundly grateful. Their graciousness inspires us to continue working for the day when Christians speak up as boldly for the human rights of thousands Iraqis still detained illegally by the United States and United Kingdom.

Such an outpouring of action for justice and peace would be a fitting memorial for Tom. Let us all join our voices on behalf of those who continue to suffer under occupation, whose loved ones have been killed or are missing. In so doing, we may hasten the day when both those who are wrongly detained and those who bear arms will return safely to their homes. In such a peace we will find solace for our grief.

Despite the tragedy of this day, we remain committed to put into practice these words of Jim Loney: “With the waging of war, we will not comply. With the help of God’s grace, we will struggle for justice. With God’s abiding kindness, we will love even our enemies.” We continue in hope for Jim, Harmeet and Norman’s safe return home safe.

Contact: Dr. Doug Pritchard, CPT Co-Director 416-423-5525 (Canada) and Rev. Carol Rose, CPT Co-Director
Kryss Chupp, 773-277-0253 (USA)
-30-



Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:28:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 2:30:48 PM EDT by Cincinnatus]
It is indeed cold.
But that's how it is.

I'm sick of people who SOOO want to consider Iraq vets victims.
It's offensive.
My wife encountered this constantly while I was gone.
Liberals (you know, the kind who insist they "support the troops") would let my wife know how SORRY they were for her and for my being forced to serve. She always set the straight.
Now we have self-loathing vets like Duncan providing "comfort" in the form of pity to our new vets.


There is nothing more offensive to a warrior than pity.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:32:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slaughter:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.

You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

WTF!???

So you believe this guy was drafted and forced to go into a war zone against his will and that the terrorists who targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an INNOCENT man are blameless "victims" of GWBush and that they're FORCED to kidnapp, torture and behead innocent civilians!??

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?




No, I believe those folks are saying, the guy would be alive if we hadn't screwed up. They're right. If we hadn't screwed up it wouldn't be a "war zone", would it?? They wouldn't be taking and killing folks if we never invaded.

Get it??

Tell me, mac. If the chinese invaded us, but screwed up the "intelligence", would you fight 'em???

Or would you collaborate with the invader, because they "meant well"???????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm???




Liberty86

I can see you're right.

Anyone who doesn't is just a GOP puppet



Holy crap, are all your posts liberal trolling?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:33:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Billybob2002:
At the forefront of that support are strong and courageous actions from Muslim brothers and sisters throughout the world for which we are profoundly grateful. Their graciousness inspires us to continue working for the day when Christians speak up as boldly for the human rights of thousands Iraqis still detained illegally by the United States and United Kingdom.


Yet they remain utterly silent on the Muslim slave-trade of Christians in the Sudan, the massacre of Christians throughout the Arab world, the genocide advocated and perpetrated against Jews and Christians by Hamas, Iran, Syria, etc.

Their "Muslim brothers and sisters" just kidnapped, tortured and executed one of their own - and yet they still don't get it.



Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:43:07 PM EDT
To me the thing is THEY BOTH SUCK ASS! Bush screwed the pooch, and these Christian 'peace' activists are also nothing but fifth column terrorist enablers.
Look at this fucking letter :"At the forefront of that support are strong and courageous actions from Muslim brothers and sisters throughout the world for which we are profoundly grateful."
Then today they had a co-statement read to the cameras with CAIR alongside!! Fucking 5th column (plant a tree and sing cumbaya) Traitors !!!!!!!
So ya know what? They can both go to hell! Both the Kool-aid drinking Neo-cons and the "passive aggressive" blame america first Hippies.
I guess hell for the neo-con would be being stuck in the parking lot of a grateful dead concert and for the Libtards it would be being reincarnated as a woman in Saudi Arabia!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:40:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
That's also part of the warped mind syndrome.

The confusion that Iraq was our great "ally".
This idiocy was hand in hand with the absolute belief that we suppied Saddam with weapons, and ESPECIALLY with all of his dreaded WMD.
Of course it didn't take long for jackasses like Duncan to switch from INSISTING that WE gave Saddam WMD, to INSISTING that they never, ever existed.



I guess some things never change. I never said we gave them to him. We damn sure looked the other way, and US as well as euro companies sold him the shit, without so much as a peep out of rummie and the crew. I also never said they never existed. I said we didn't have enough evidence against him to justify a good Federal Magistrate to issue a warrant. I said he was not a legitimate threat, and the invasion was a globalist/neo-con scheme. I was right. You were wrong. I predicted exactly what we're seeing there, and it's gonna get worse. Meanwhile the 9/11 perps laugh in their golden palaces, and bid US port contracts.........

BTW, cinci. I don't "switch" my stories. My tune has been consistently against the internationalist socialist agenda by this govt. I'm still singing the same tune, and have been proven correct by events on the ground in the mid-east.



No I don't know about you, but when I was in Iraq, all I saw were Soviet weapons, Chinese, a few FRENCH items, and an occaisional South African arty shell.
No American weapons. None.

Maybe he hid all of those, too?



Like I said. I don't give a shit whose weapons are there. It ain't the issue, it's smoke and mirrors. I just care about WASTED blood and treasure, JUST like I said before we went in!!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:45:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:
Political opinions??? What a joke!!! War is not politics, youngster. It's blood, gore, and treasure. Some wars are worth it, some are not.

What is "evil", was putting American soldiers in that shithole in the first place. What's "evil", is a president who thinks American soldiers blood can replace the saving blood of Christ, by saving the world......

What is "evil", is a phoney war, with wide open borders, inviting the next attack. What is "evil", is the real perps of 9/11 go free. What is "evil", is the lack of accountability, in the US govt.

What is "evil", is the belief that US blood can, (or should), free ANYONE!!! (Unless, of course, one is a globalist.... )


In all that - you simply continue to excuse, justify, condone and support the premeditated and deliberate kidnapping, torture and murder an innocent civilians and continue to imply that you would the same thing. That you would look for an unarmed peace-worker, kidnap them, torture them and then shoot them in the back of head...... if and because the Chinese invaded.

Well try this one on for size pal - in another thread you vented a lot of rage for illegal immigration "invaders" as you call them - so what do you say if we kidnapped some Charity-Church-workers here who volunteer their time to try to improve the lives of poor people along the border and we torture and kill them because you disagree with the current border policy? THAT is exactly what you are condoning - terroristic kidnapping, torture and murder of innocent civilians to make a political statement.

So go ahead - put your money where your warped beliefs are - go kidnap an unarmed Church-volunteer who helps illegal immigrants, take them out in the desert, torture them and then shoot them in the back of the head. Then you can wash your hands of responsibility and blame their murder on GWBush - you'll be an American hero.

Have a nice life.





Typical neo-con answer to truth...

Classic demonization. Didja learn that from Carl Rove??

Or Joseph Goebbels!!!!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:49:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
It is indeed cold.
But that's how it is.

I'm sick of people who SOOO want to consider Iraq vets victims.
It's offensive.
My wife encountered this constantly while I was gone.
Liberals (you know, the kind who insist they "support the troops") would let my wife know how SORRY they were for her and for my being forced to serve. She always set the straight.
Now we have self-loathing vets like Duncan providing "comfort" in the form of pity to our new vets.


There is nothing more offensive to a warrior than pity.



Yes, there is.......

Stupidity..........

Talk to me in 20 years, after we're gone from that shithole.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:55:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.



You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........



You still buying that bullshit?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:57:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.

You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

WTF!???

So you believe this guy was drafted and forced to go into a war zone against his will and that the terrorists who targetted, kidnapped, tortured and murdered an INNOCENT man are blameless "victims" of GWBush and that they're FORCED to kidnapp, torture and behead innocent civilians!??

What the fuck are you drinking, smoking, shootin' or popping?





No, I believe those folks are saying, the guy would be alive if we hadn't screwed up. They're right. If we hadn't screwed up it wouldn't be a "war zone", would it?? They wouldn't be taking and killing folks if we never invaded.

Get it??

Tell me, mac. If the chinese invaded us, but screwed up the "intelligence", would you fight 'em???

Or would you collaborate with the invader, because they "meant well"???????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm???



What a fucked up analogy, but that is getting to be normal for you. You haven't been keeping up. We didn't screw up.

You really are buying the dummycrat bullshit.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:58:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By badhand1:
It is bush's fault if it wasnt for him we wouldnt be there and hated by so many other countries. For sticking our nose in others business.

Where the fuck have you been? America was hated LONG before Bush had anything to do with D.C., Iraq, or the HHM!! If you want some recent examples, Beirut 1983, WTC 1993, Iran 1979, to name just a few. Eerily, GWB wasn't involved in ANY of those!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:58:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By pdsarge:
You're a hundred percent correct. Our entire society has become one of blame the other guy. Very few people accept responsibility for their own actions.



You mean like screwing the pooch and invading the wrong country for "mistaken" reasons???????

The guy would be alive, if we had "the intelligence right"..........

I see your back off your meds again



A lot of Americans would be alive, if I had my way before all this started. (Not to mention the maimed, and the money). Seems to me, you were one of the many who have been all wrong about this from the get-go.

Meds??? Is THAT all you got??????????? !!!!



If you had your way??????? You mean the way of Clinton and Kerry? IOW, cowardice in the face of these Islamofacists.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:58:54 PM EDT
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