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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/29/2005 10:40:35 AM EDT
We only grew 20% this year. Last year we grew at about 50% and the previous year was phenominal too.

20% growth isn't enough to keep the owner happy (we're privately owned) so the Senior VP of sales is gone. Sort of a big wake up call that we need to perform better.

The business world can sure be cut-throat.

Just an FYI, we're solidly in the black, so nobody is losing money in our company. Fortunately for me, I'm on the operations side of the company and they seem to be happy with me (for now) so I'm getting better than the standard 3% raise this January!

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:42:04 AM EDT
What sector/field?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:42:38 AM EDT
If other companies in the same business had much larger increases than your company, then yes a 20% increase IS low.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:43:37 AM EDT
'Tis the season.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:43:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 10:44:16 AM EDT by crazyquik]
Dude you had great sales 2 years ago.

Then crappy sales (only 50% growth). But you kept him on one more year.

And this year he effed up again and he only had 20% growth. If you'd kept him on another year, you're looking at 0% growth or negative growth.

The boss isn't there to make friends, he's there to make money. The VP of Sales can't even keep maintain the same growth year to year.

Maybe get he get a job at GM or Ford though. They seem to embrace the downward slide business model.

Maybe he was a slacker and the boss wanted to fire someone to make an example to the rest of the herd?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:43:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stony275:
What sector/field?




Ditto that question. I have a very good friend in the SLC area who's a Sales VP of a large pharmacuetical company. Hope it wasn't him (don't think it was).
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:44:29 AM EDT
SO what is his screen name here?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:45:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stony275:
What sector/field?



Traditionally we were consumer listing information. We're transitioning away from that (no wonder) to business listing information. Electronic yellowpages-type data.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:45:18 AM EDT
I have never known a VP of sales that shouldn't be fired. They all suck, and they all are whores.

I am in marketing, and my two largest thorns in my craw are the VP of sales for our group, and the corporate Sr. VP sales. Both are infantile, moronic numbskull, mouth breathers.

Geoff
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:45:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Dude you had great sales 2 years ago.

Then crappy sales (only 50% growth). But you kept him on one more year.

And this year he effed up again and he only had 20% growth. If you'd kept him on another year, you're looking at 0% growth or negative growth.




ONLY 50%? WTF? Are you expecting every company's numbers to be that of early Microsoft?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:47:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Dude you had great sales 2 years ago.

Then crappy sales (only 50% growth). But you kept him on one more year.

And this year he effed up again and he only had 20% growth. If you'd kept him on another year, you're looking at 0% growth or negative growth.

The boss isn't there to make friends, he's there to make money. The VP of Sales can't even keep maintain the same growth year to year.

Maybe get he get a job at GM or Ford though. They seem to embrace the downward slide business model.

Maybe he was a slacker and the boss wanted to fire someone to make an example to the rest of the herd?




Actually, with a record like that he should have a .gov job - or better yet, an elected .gov job!!!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:47:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gander:
I have never known a VP of sales that shouldn't be fired. They all suck, and they all are whores.
Geoff



My VP sales friend is the most ethical, moral, decent, good-hearted man I've EVER known. I kid you not. He's a great man and that's why he's gone so far. So be careful painting with that broad of a brush.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:49:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By Gander:
I have never known a VP of sales that shouldn't be fired. They all suck, and they all are whores.
Geoff



My VP sales friend is the most ethical, moral, decent, good-hearted man I've EVER known. I kid you not. He's a great man and that's why he's gone so far. So be careful painting with that broad of a brush.



Man you did get lucky!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:50:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Dude you had great sales 2 years ago.

Then crappy sales (only 50% growth). But you kept him on one more year.

And this year he effed up again and he only had 20% growth. If you'd kept him on another year, you're looking at 0% growth or negative growth.




ONLY 50%? WTF? Are you expecting every company's numbers to be that of early Microsoft?



2003: phenominal
2004: 50%
2005: 20%
2006: think he'd have made 6%?

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:55:42 AM EDT
Salemen and Sales Managers get fired every other week.

Sales is the only field that I know of where getting fired is basically meaningless in terms of finding another job. You get fired from a consulting position or from an engineering job and prospective employers won't touch you with a 10 foot pole. You get from a sales job and you've got a new job next week.

I also wonder what your company has done to hamstring the sales staff. I have seen alot of companies basically put their own sales staff out of business by implementing idiotic policies and strategies.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:57:19 AM EDT
But, what have you done for me LATELY?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:57:53 AM EDT
We need more info before we can say whether he deserved it or he got the shaft.

While on the outside looking in those numbers look pretty good.

BUT.......did he exceed his budget? Or was he below estimates?

Were the previous years gains due to new products/ services?

Is this a new company?

Too many variables go into making decisions like this to say for sure.

My experience is the higher you are on the ladder the less job security you have.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:58:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 11:04:23 AM EDT by Shane333]

Originally Posted By crazyquik:

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Dude you had great sales 2 years ago.

Then crappy sales (only 50% growth). But you kept him on one more year.

And this year he effed up again and he only had 20% growth. If you'd kept him on another year, you're looking at 0% growth or negative growth.




ONLY 50%? WTF? Are you expecting every company's numbers to be that of early Microsoft?



2003: phenominal
2004: 50%
2005: 20%
2006: think he'd have made 6%?




2003 was somewhere between 60 to 70% growth.

To keep things in perspective I should give a little company background. Many years ago we were doing great when Equifax purchased us. At first it seemed that it was a name-change only so we were fine with it. Then, around 2001 a senior VP of Equifax decided to take all our client base and get rid of us (he wanted to close offices out west so he could move his family east and open new offices). Half of my group got laid off (myself included) and the other half was sold off.

Fortunately the "sold off" half wanted me with them and hired me. Since then we've been breaking our butts to regain our client base and branch into more electronic yellowpages type work. The irony is that the Equifax VP who laid us off got fired by his bosses when they realized what he'd done, and Equifax has since come back to us as our client.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:03:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:
We need more info before we can say whether he deserved it or he got the shaft.

While on the outside looking in those numbers look pretty good.

BUT.......did he exceed his budget? Or was he below estimates? My boss (VP of Operations) manages the operations budget and that is where we shine.

Were the previous years gains due to new products/ services? Not much. Actually, it's 2006 where we really start rolling out new products.


Is this a new company? Per my earlier post we're trying to re-establish ourselves after Equifax took advantage of us.

Too many variables go into making decisions like this to say for sure.

My experience is the higher you are on the ladder the less job security you have.

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:05:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Dude you had great sales 2 years ago.

Then crappy sales (only 50% growth). But you kept him on one more year.

And this year he effed up again and he only had 20% growth. If you'd kept him on another year, you're looking at 0% growth or negative growth.




ONLY 50%? WTF? Are you expecting every company's numbers to be that of early Microsoft?



2003: phenominal
2004: 50%
2005: 20%
2006: think he'd have made 6%?




Depends...

What does the company sell? Do they manufacture their own products or are they a reseller? If they are a reseller then are they selling the top name in the market or are they selling a smaller brand? Did the companies upper management decide to try and expand into sectors of the market that don't have any money to spend right now (government, small business)? Did the company hire new salesmen this year and fire them after their first quarter for not making their number and then hire another new salesman to replace them?

Like I said, I've seen companies do alot of stupid things to sabotage their own prosperity. I've seen companies try and break into established markets by reselling 2nd rate brands to market sectors that don't have a need or use for the product. I've seen companies bring in experienced salesmen thinking that they'll start getting orders on their first day, and then fire them after 1 quarter for not making a ridiculous goal.

There are 2 sides to every story.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:10:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:13:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By krpind:
We need more info before we can say whether he deserved it or he got the shaft.

While on the outside looking in those numbers look pretty good.

BUT.......did he exceed his budget? Or was he below estimates? My boss (VP of Operations) manages the operations budget and that is where we shine.

Were the previous years gains due to new products/ services? Not much. Actually, it's 2006 where we really start rolling out new products.


Is this a new company? Per my earlier post we're trying to re-establish ourselves after Equifax took advantage of us.

Too many variables go into making decisions like this to say for sure.

My experience is the higher you are on the ladder the less job security you have.




Chances are he probably saw this coming and started lining up new job prospects last month.

As for growth rates, it sounds like your company had an abnormally high growth rate due to the fact that you had recently been spun off and alot of your customers followed you to the new company. Afterwards things started settling down.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:28:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By krpind:
We need more info before we can say whether he deserved it or he got the shaft.

While on the outside looking in those numbers look pretty good.

BUT.......did he exceed his budget? Or was he below estimates? My boss (VP of Operations) manages the operations budget and that is where we shine.

Were the previous years gains due to new products/ services? Not much. Actually, it's 2006 where we really start rolling out new products.


Is this a new company? Per my earlier post we're trying to re-establish ourselves after Equifax took advantage of us.

Too many variables go into making decisions like this to say for sure.

My experience is the higher you are on the ladder the less job security you have.




With all due respect.....the operations budget is an expense, and the sales budget is the revenue. I meant was his sales figure above or below what was expected? I realize you may not know.......but it is impossible to judge his job performance without that info.

Since your company was a spin off and really new, those figures (50% increases) don't seem too high at all.

I would suspect that your current owner has a multiyear plan to be on track to exceed the previous companies sales and with only a 20% increase y'all fell short of this years goal.

Of course that is a wild ass guess on my part.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:22:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By krpind:
We need more info before we can say whether he deserved it or he got the shaft.

While on the outside looking in those numbers look pretty good.

BUT.......did he exceed his budget? Or was he below estimates? My boss (VP of Operations) manages the operations budget and that is where we shine.

Were the previous years gains due to new products/ services? Not much. Actually, it's 2006 where we really start rolling out new products.


Is this a new company? Per my earlier post we're trying to re-establish ourselves after Equifax took advantage of us.

Too many variables go into making decisions like this to say for sure.

My experience is the higher you are on the ladder the less job security you have.




With all due respect.....the operations budget is an expense, and the sales budget is the revenue. I meant was his sales figure above or below what was expected? I realize you may not know.......but it is impossible to judge his job performance without that info.

Since your company was a spin off and really new, those figures (50% increases) don't seem too high at all.

I would suspect that your current owner has a multiyear plan to be on track to exceed the previous companies sales and with only a 20% increase y'all fell short of this years goal.

Of course that is a wild ass guess on my part.



Sorry, I suffered a brain cramp about the sales budget vs. operating expense budget. You've pretty much hit the nail on the head about your guess.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:15:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 4:16:56 PM EDT by FLAL1A]
Sometimes these things are done "pour encourager les autres," so stay on your toes. Also, see 1st Peter 2:18, and keep your head down. Good luck!

P.S. I have never personally tried to stay on my toes with my head down, but it seems like the thing to do.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:09:24 PM EDT


tsk tsk. Must of been a disloyal Gen Y'er. That'll learn him.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:35:11 PM EDT
Put the coffee down! Coffee is for closers.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:37:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Salemen and Sales Managers get fired every other week.

Sales is the only field that I know of where getting fired is basically meaningless in terms of finding another job. You get fired from a consulting position or from an engineering job and prospective employers won't touch you with a 10 foot pole. You get from a sales job and you've got a new job next week.
I also wonder what your company has done to hamstring the sales staff. I have seen alot of companies basically put their own sales staff out of business by implementing idiotic policies and strategies.


Well, I beg to differ. In November of 2004, I lost my job as VP of Sales (for the Southwest Region), and stayed unemployed for 11 1/2 months. I was in the financial services as a product wholesaler, and while our business has been through a tremendous period of consolidation and mergers, it is far from over yet. I was in the investment and insurance business for about 25 years and am about 99% sure that I'll never be in that business again. Certainly not by choice, but after nearly one year of unemployment, I had to find other work to support my family.

I still find it hard to believe that after pouring that much time and effort into one business, I'm viewed as someone who can't add value to another organization, but there it is. Of course, if you spend 25 years in one business, you're also viewed as a greater liability than someone with less experience, but who may also be half your age. Welcome to the New Paradigm.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:38:43 PM EDT
Several years ago I was working for a company that produced software and hardware products subject to governmental regulations. On average, sales increased approximately 3-5% yearly, however we had very profitable maintenance contracts that made up for our very modest growth. In 1998, the govt. passed a regulation that made a certain piece of our product obsolete, which meant all our customers had to upgrade an expensive piece of hardware within three years of stop using the product entirely. It was nearing Y2K, so many of our customers played it safe and upgraded everything, not just that one piece of hardware. For those three years, our sales were phenomenal: money was poring in.

At the end of the three years, our VP of sales was instructed by the home office to put together a forecast of future sales. Now, this is guy is not an idiot, but he did something really stupid. He included those 3 years of sales in his forecast, which affected his numbers in that his forecasted sales were way above the norm. In fact, those 3 years were a statistical outlier. He should have ignored or adjusted the data. To make matters worse, the fact so many people upgraded during that 3 years could result in less upgrades the following year.

In any case, his sales forecast was way too optimistic. When the predicted sales didn’t materialize, he was fired.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:47:07 PM EDT
Senior VP; that must mean that there's Junior VPs also. All BS and unnecessary layers of corporate crap!

Warn them all of the of the giant space goat and get them to the B Ark immediately!

TC

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:59:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:
Several years ago I was working for a company that produced software and hardware products subject to governmental regulations. On average, sales increased approximately 3-5% yearly, however we had very profitable maintenance contracts that made up for our very modest growth. In 1998, the govt. passed a regulation that made a certain piece of our product obsolete, which meant all our customers had to upgrade an expensive piece of hardware within three years of stop using the product entirely. It was nearing Y2K, so many of our customers played it safe and upgraded everything, not just that one piece of hardware. For those three years, our sales were phenomenal: money was poring in.

At the end of the three years, our VP of sales was instructed by the home office to put together a forecast of future sales. Now, this is guy is not an idiot, but he did something really stupid. He included those 3 years of sales in his forecast, which affected his numbers in that his forecasted sales were way above the norm. In fact, those 3 years were a statistical outlier. He should have ignored or adjusted the data. To make matters worse, the fact so many people upgraded during that 3 years could result in less upgrades the following year.

In any case, his sales forecast was way too optimistic. When the predicted sales didn’t materialize, he was fired.



It sounds like he simply delayed his firing. If he had shown up to the meeting with reduced sales projections due to Y2K, they would have not wanted to hear that and started looking for their next bright boy to fix things.

Bob
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