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Posted: 8/26/2005 7:13:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 7:17:14 AM EDT by vanilla_gorilla]
Spawned by this thread:

www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=383101

I think I know the answer most of you will give, but I'm going to ask anyway.

Say you are threatened or carjacked by an 11year old boy. At this age, it is usually obvious of the age, and you aren't going to mistake this kid for a 16 year old or something like that. Given that you have a pretty good idea of this kids true age just by looking at him, when he runs up to your car window carrying a gun, or jumps out in front of you in the street with a gun and says "Give me your wallet!", would you, COULD you, pull your CCW and protect yourself? Or are you going to see just another 11 year old kid?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:14:52 AM EDT
tag. Interesting question.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:15:07 AM EDT
Dead as fried chicken.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:17:28 AM EDT
It depends. It just depends.

If I get the sneaking suspicion that his gun will actually be discharged, and that he has a chance of hitting me, then yup.

It just depends. I can't say without being there.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:19:39 AM EDT
Fire at will!!!!!No hesitation just an a smoking .45!!!!

Ask any Vietnam Veteran about how deadly 11 year olds are!!! And yes this is a realistic scenario, I work with delinquent Youth offenders who are AOD dependant and we have gotten 12 year olds in at our facility!!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:20:41 AM EDT
Age, race, gender, all are not even considerations if my life or my family is in danger.

Bang, you are dead.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:20:53 AM EDT
The fact that he is 11 years old is negated by the fact that there is a gun pointed at me.



I would defintely shoot. I would be shooting to stop a deadly threat, not to stop an 11 year old.


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:24:52 AM EDT
I would end the life of anyone that threatens to take my life with armed force. I won't see him as an 11 year old but instead see what he will be in the future. I'll se his death as ending a scumbag's life before he does worse and breeds more of his kind. You know damn well that that kid is going to be a gangbanger and murderer.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:25:42 AM EDT
bang
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:30:04 AM EDT
not a thought in my mind as to who'll be talking with my attorney, an 11yo isn't a man yet, but the gun in his hand makes him close enough.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:31:49 AM EDT
Are you in fear of your life?

That is the only question.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:33:11 AM EDT
A gun is an equalizer, so he's dead in my book.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:33:22 AM EDT
I wouldnt be killing an 11 year old. I'd be killing a being that is likely to pull the trigger on the gun pointed at me, nothing more. BUT I doubt a jury would see it that way.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:36:48 AM EDT
The bottom line is that I need to make it home to the wife and kids. If he's threatening my life I will do whatever is necessary to survive and his age won't matter much to me.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:37:52 AM EDT
I would most likely shoot to kill, but I would probably have to kill myself if the gun turned out to be a toy and the 11 year old an innocent child. I couldn't live with that.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:38:21 AM EDT
All threats will be eliminated in the most practical, expedient manner possible. If this means immediate use of lethal force, so be it.

Short answer: Don't fuck with me by breaking into my house or threatening my life and I won't kill you.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:39:04 AM EDT
What if it's airsoft

I'd still shoot the fucker.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:40:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Are you in fear of your life?

That is the only question.



+1 I think this kind of question is what we need to ask. I always used to ask a similar kind of question to the "feel good" girls in college who thought that women should be in combat. I would always ask "If a 10 or 11 year old comes at you with an M-16, could you blow his brains out without hesitation??"

Obviously, it is harsh and a difficult situation, but there are places in the world where children carry real guns and real bullets and we do/may go there. I knew that when I was in if it was a threat to my life, safety, men or mission, it (whatever "it" was) was going to take a dirt nap.

Civillian world = different circumstances, but OP is right. If a youngun thinks he's big enough to pick up a firearm, approach a vehicle with the intentions of theft and harm, and threaten the occupants with their lives...

Bullets can fly both ways, you know.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:40:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Age, race, gender, all are not even considerations if my life or my family is in danger.

Bang, you are dead.




Could not have said it better, it doesn't matter who or what you are, BANG, hard as a carp!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:42:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fireguy3:
Fire at will!!!!!No hesitation just an a smoking .45!!!!

Ask any Vietnam Veteran about how deadly 11 year olds are!!! And yes this is a realistic scenario, I work with delinquent Youth offenders who are AOD dependant and we have gotten 12 year olds in at our facility!!





Old enough to pack a piece is old enough to fire on.

I would feel only recoil.



Followed by INTENSE ANGER at the little bastard for putting me in that position.


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:44:01 AM EDT
Yes then they would have to surgically remove his gun from his ass.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:45:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By piccolo:

Originally Posted By Fireguy3:
Fire at will!!!!!No hesitation just an a smoking .45!!!!

Ask any Vietnam Veteran about how deadly 11 year olds are!!! And yes this is a realistic scenario, I work with delinquent Youth offenders who are AOD dependant and we have gotten 12 year olds in at our facility!!





Old enough to pack a piece is old enough to fire on.

I would feel only recoil.



Followed by INTENSE ANGER at the little bastard for putting me in that position.





+1
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:47:54 AM EDT
I think that if you are old enough to pull a gun, a knife, or punch someone which includes threatening their life and or safty you are old enough to suffer the consequences and be shot, stabbed, punched your self.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:48:29 AM EDT
What the hell does his age matter?

Shoot the fucker.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:48:36 AM EDT
I'd Mozambique the little fuck in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:51:45 AM EDT
Wouldn't like it . But would have to shoot him. Any one pointing a gun at you in a robbery is a threat.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:52:53 AM EDT
Actually, the WORST part about it is that every damned do-good liberal that WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME DAMNED THING IF IT HAPPENED TO THEM would be Sob Sistering the shooter to death for the rest of his life. Sarah and company would have a field day spinning this one.

You could live to be 125 and for the rest of your life, you would ba labeled as the guy that shot an 11 YO sweet innocent loving little kid and got off by a technicality.

Even if he dropped his pistol and you took him down without firing a shot, you'd STILL have to live with being the 'Tough Guy' that drew down on a poor little kid.

You bet I'd be angry at the little bastard!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:54:57 AM EDT
I'd shoot. I'll tell you what, they sure don't look like children anymore when they're trying to kill you.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:56:53 AM EDT
Yes I would shoot
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:57:59 AM EDT
"Your honor, all I saw was a gun levelled at my chest. It wasn't until the officer told me that I realized the assailant with a deadly weapon was an 11 year old criminal".

*bang*

(repeat as necessary)

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:07:38 AM EDT
You guys are somethin else. It's an eleven year old punk. He DOESN'T KNOW TRICKS.

If he was attempting to rob me... I'd deck him, not shoot him. If he ACTUALLY shoots at me, that's a whole nuther ball game.

Here's what Detroit mean streets taught me to do. "OKey dokey, Mr. gunslinger, Sir. I'll give you what you want. OK (hold up wallet, shake it...let him see it) Here's my wallet, just don't shoot me"

Then as he reaches for the wallet I'd drop it at his feet - looking at his eyes the whole time. The moment his eyes drop to follow that earthward bound wallet, I'm grabbing that gun hand, with both hands, and dropping to one knee pulling him down while ripping the gun - or knife (toy, airsoft, or real) out of his hand - even if I have to break his finger doing it, and then I beat the living shuffing out of him.

A 6' 200lbs. adult male can out fight any 11 year old alive. No one has to die. No one has to even go to the hospital. After I beat him good, then I'd haul his sorry behind back to momma to do some 'splaining. OR just leave him on the ground to contemplate what he did wrong.

If the weapon was real, I'd be calling 911 to report the incident too.

My philosophy is avoid harm if you can, and if endangered take the least deadly response possible given the circumstance. Dropping a punk kid with a .45 without even giving him a warning like "drop the gun kid or you're dead" is borderline immoral.

Yes, it's legal, yeah, probably justifiable...but would it be the best course of action? No.

Now, if there are 3 of them punk kids and one has a gun then the circumstances change: a small gang of 3 on 1 makes it a "fair" fight and justifies drawing down. But again... you gotta give that warning so as to avoid gunning down a punk with a squirt gun.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:16:16 AM EDT
Age does not matter. If someone comes between me and tomorrow, they're going to get shot.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:20:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
You guys are somethin else. It's an eleven year old punk. He DOESN'T KNOW TRICKS.

If he was attempting to rob me... I'd deck him, not shoot him. If he ACTUALLY shoots at me, that's a whole nuther ball game.

Here's what Detroit mean streets taught me to do. "OKey dokey, Mr. gunslinger, Sir. I'll give you what you want. OK (hold up wallet, shake it...let him see it) Here's my wallet, just don't shoot me"

Then as he reaches for the wallet I'd drop it at his feet - looking at his eyes the whole time. The moment his eyes drop to follow that earthward bound wallet, I'm grabbing that gun hand, with both hands, and dropping to one knee pulling him down while ripping the gun - or knife (toy, airsoft, or real) out of his hand - even if I have to break his finger doing it, and then I beat the living shuffing out of him.

A 6' 200lbs. adult male can out fight any 11 year old alive. No one has to die. No one has to even go to the hospital. After I beat him good, then I'd haul his sorry behind back to momma to do some 'splaining. OR just leave him on the ground to contemplate what he did wrong.

If the weapon was real, I'd be calling 911 to report the incident too.

My philosophy is avoid harm if you can, and if endangered take the least deadly response possible given the circumstance. Dropping a punk kid with a .45 without even giving him a warning like "drop the gun kid or you're dead" is borderline immoral.

Yes, it's legal, yeah, probably justifiable...but would it be the best course of action? No.

Now, if there are 3 of them punk kids and one has a gun then the circumstances change: a small gang of 3 on 1 makes it a "fair" fight and justifies drawing down. But again... you gotta give that warning so as to avoid gunning down a punk with a squirt gun.





You ninjas are cool! Flipping out and cutting peoples heads off kind of shit!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:23:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Spawned by this thread:

www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=383101

I think I know the answer most of you will give, but I'm going to ask anyway.

Say you are threatened or carjacked by an 11year old boy. At this age, it is usually obvious of the age, and you aren't going to mistake this kid for a 16 year old or something like that. Given that you have a pretty good idea of this kids true age just by looking at him, when he runs up to your car window carrying a gun, or jumps out in front of you in the street with a gun and says "Give me your wallet!", would you, COULD you, pull your CCW and protect yourself? Or are you going to see just another 11 year old kid?



The kid's dead. Is it fair? No. Do I have a duty to protect me and mine? Yes.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:29:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
You guys are somethin else. It's an eleven year old punk. He DOESN'T KNOW TRICKS.

If he was attempting to rob me... I'd deck him, not shoot him. If he ACTUALLY shoots at me, that's a whole nuther ball game.

Here's what Detroit mean streets taught me to do. "OKey dokey, Mr. gunslinger, Sir. I'll give you what you want. OK (hold up wallet, shake it...let him see it) Here's my wallet, just don't shoot me"

Then as he reaches for the wallet I'd drop it at his feet - looking at his eyes the whole time. The moment his eyes drop to follow that earthward bound wallet, I'm grabbing that gun hand, with both hands, and dropping to one knee pulling him down while ripping the gun - or knife (toy, airsoft, or real) out of his hand - even if I have to break his finger doing it, and then I beat the living shuffing out of him.

A 6' 200lbs. adult male can out fight any 11 year old alive. No one has to die. No one has to even go to the hospital. After I beat him good, then I'd haul his sorry behind back to momma to do some 'splaining. OR just leave him on the ground to contemplate what he did wrong.



Chances are momma doesn't know/care where he is if he's an 11 years old with a gun trying to rob someone. Criminals haven't taken gun safety classes, their fingers stay inside the trigger guards when they hold pistols. There is too much of a risk of some moron jerking on the trigger and "accidentaly" shooting me while I try to pry the gun out of his hand if it's in front of me. If someone is in front of me with a gun pointed at me, I have to assume I'm going to be shot, whether intentionally or not. If the gun is pointed away from me enough that I have the opportunity to disarm the person, then I'm going to beat the holy hell out of him. If he lets a round loose over my shoulder/to my side, that's his problem.
I know Detroit has it pretty bad but some of the junior gangbangers I've seen in SE Fresno and the stuff they've done, they may be kids, but they're trying to be adults.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:30:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
You guys are somethin else. It's an eleven year old punk. He DOESN'T KNOW TRICKS.

If he was attempting to rob me... I'd deck him, not shoot him. If he ACTUALLY shoots at me, that's a whole nuther ball game.

Here's what Detroit mean streets taught me to do. "OKey dokey, Mr. gunslinger, Sir. I'll give you what you want. OK (hold up wallet, shake it...let him see it) Here's my wallet, just don't shoot me"

Then as he reaches for the wallet I'd drop it at his feet - looking at his eyes the whole time. The moment his eyes drop to follow that earthward bound wallet, I'm grabbing that gun hand, with both hands, and dropping to one knee pulling him down while ripping the gun - or knife (toy, airsoft, or real) out of his hand - even if I have to break his finger doing it, and then I beat the living shuffing out of him.

A 6' 200lbs. adult male can out fight any 11 year old alive. No one has to die. No one has to even go to the hospital. After I beat him good, then I'd haul his sorry behind back to momma to do some 'splaining. OR just leave him on the ground to contemplate what he did wrong.

If the weapon was real, I'd be calling 911 to report the incident too.

My philosophy is avoid harm if you can, and if endangered take the least deadly response possible given the circumstance. Dropping a punk kid with a .45 without even giving him a warning like "drop the gun kid or you're dead" is borderline immoral.

Yes, it's legal, yeah, probably justifiable...but would it be the best course of action? No.

Now, if there are 3 of them punk kids and one has a gun then the circumstances change: a small gang of 3 on 1 makes it a "fair" fight and justifies drawing down. But again... you gotta give that warning so as to avoid gunning down a punk with a squirt gun.



Your Batman
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:32:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
You guys are somethin else. It's an eleven year old punk. He DOESN'T KNOW TRICKS.

If he was attempting to rob me... I'd deck him, not shoot him. If he ACTUALLY shoots at me, that's a whole nuther ball game.

Here's what Detroit mean streets taught me to do. "OKey dokey, Mr. gunslinger, Sir. I'll give you what you want. OK (hold up wallet, shake it...let him see it) Here's my wallet, just don't shoot me"

Then as he reaches for the wallet I'd drop it at his feet - looking at his eyes the whole time. The moment his eyes drop to follow that earthward bound wallet, I'm grabbing that gun hand, with both hands, and dropping to one knee pulling him down while ripping the gun - or knife (toy, airsoft, or real) out of his hand - even if I have to break his finger doing it, and then I beat the living shuffing out of him.

A 6' 200lbs. adult male can out fight any 11 year old alive. No one has to die. No one has to even go to the hospital. After I beat him good, then I'd haul his sorry behind back to momma to do some 'splaining. OR just leave him on the ground to contemplate what he did wrong.

If the weapon was real, I'd be calling 911 to report the incident too.

My philosophy is avoid harm if you can, and if endangered take the least deadly response possible given the circumstance. Dropping a punk kid with a .45 without even giving him a warning like "drop the gun kid or you're dead" is borderline immoral.

Yes, it's legal, yeah, probably justifiable...but would it be the best course of action? No.

Now, if there are 3 of them punk kids and one has a gun then the circumstances change: a small gang of 3 on 1 makes it a "fair" fight and justifies drawing down. But again... you gotta give that warning so as to avoid gunning down a punk with a squirt gun.





You ninjas are cool! Flipping out and cutting peoples heads off kind of shit!



No shit! What fucking planet are you from??? First rule of a knife fight is: you're gonna get cut. How do you think that extrapolates to a gunfight? This is a carjacking; good luck getting out of the car and trying that routine without getting shot. How many times have you tried this on the mean streets of Detroit?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:59:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
You guys are somethin else. It's an eleven year old punk. He DOESN'T KNOW TRICKS.

If he was attempting to rob me... I'd deck him, not shoot him. If he ACTUALLY shoots at me, that's a whole nuther ball game.

Here's what Detroit mean streets taught me to do. "OKey dokey, Mr. gunslinger, Sir. I'll give you what you want. OK (hold up wallet, shake it...let him see it) Here's my wallet, just don't shoot me"

Then as he reaches for the wallet I'd drop it at his feet - looking at his eyes the whole time. The moment his eyes drop to follow that earthward bound wallet, I'm grabbing that gun hand, with both hands, and dropping to one knee pulling him down while ripping the gun - or knife (toy, airsoft, or real) out of his hand - even if I have to break his finger doing it, and then I beat the living shuffing out of him.

A 6' 200lbs. adult male can out fight any 11 year old alive. No one has to die. No one has to even go to the hospital. After I beat him good, then I'd haul his sorry behind back to momma to do some 'splaining. OR just leave him on the ground to contemplate what he did wrong.

If the weapon was real, I'd be calling 911 to report the incident too.

My philosophy is avoid harm if you can, and if endangered take the least deadly response possible given the circumstance. Dropping a punk kid with a .45 without even giving him a warning like "drop the gun kid or you're dead" is borderline immoral.

Yes, it's legal, yeah, probably justifiable...but would it be the best course of action? No.

Now, if there are 3 of them punk kids and one has a gun then the circumstances change: a small gang of 3 on 1 makes it a "fair" fight and justifies drawing down. But again... you gotta give that warning so as to avoid gunning down a punk with a squirt gun.



Wow. Just wow.

There is an opening at the VPC. You should apply.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:01:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:

If he was attempting to rob me... I'd deck him, not shoot him. If he ACTUALLY shoots at me, that's a whole nuther ball game.




You do what's best for you but I'm not waiting to get shot before taking the proper measures to defend my life.

That kind of thinking is what gets people killed.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:05:48 AM EDT
BREAKING NEWS
A man was shot and killed by an 11 year old boy
today when he tried to disarm him. One person
said he droped his wallet and broke out into some
crazy ninja shit just before he was shot. "GIVE ME A BREAK"

Kid + Gun + Pointed At Me = DEAD KID
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:20:18 AM EDT
A rare opportunity to get him before he reproduces.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:30:04 AM EDT
I was 11 8 short years ago. I knew how to aim a pistol. I knew right or wrong. Hell, I knew I could die if I did something dangerous.

I think the little fucker would know what he's doing.

My answer......

BANG BANG.............BANG.

WIZZO

Course, that's the situation if IL ever gets Concealed Carry. If not, he's gonna be seeing what kind of mufflers I have under my truck.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:30:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Serfing:
A rare opportunity to get him before he reproduces.



+1
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:31:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:55:02 AM EDT
Point a gun at me and your age, race, gender etc is all out the window. If I'm in fear of my life, you better damn sure be in fear of your life.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:00:58 AM EDT

You could live to be 125 and for the rest of your life, you would ba labeled as the guy that shot an 11 YO sweet innocent loving little kid and got off by a technicality.


Absolute truth... You would probably have to change your name and move to another state. But it would be worth it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:06:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
bang



Yep.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:11:07 AM EDT
let me see mmmmmmmmmmmmmm


kill or be killed???????????

yeah, I think I would have to send that little fucker to the other side. Age has nothing to do with it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:15:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
bang



No, bang bang, remember your training.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:19:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
bang



No, bang bang, remember your training.



you both are week:

bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangb­angbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangba­ngbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang
dump empty mag, reload, relsease bolt,

bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangb­angbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangba­ngbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:07:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chas:

You could live to be 125 and for the rest of your life, you would ba labeled as the guy that shot an 11 YO sweet innocent loving little kid and got off by a technicality.


Absolute truth... You would probably have to change your name and move to another state. But it would be worth it.


I'm a sociopath with low morals and little conscience, I could live with myself!
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