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Posted: 5/12/2004 1:15:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2004 1:16:29 PM EST by Searcherfortruth]
I have put a bayonet on my AR full size just for looks from time to time, & I have snapped one on my M-4 just to see how it looks. If it came down to a real shft situation I would not consider putting a bayonet on my M-4 for a close in fight. It just seem to flimsy & give me the feeling it would damage the barrel of the weapon. Not so however on my AR's barrel.

So would you use a bayonet on your M-4?

Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:23:08 PM EST
sure. i use one to stick the upper assembly into the dirt when changing out uppers after a beta mag full auto burst so it can cool off in the air, while i continue shooting another upper.....

works for me.....

ymmv.....
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:40:49 PM EST
Probably not, but the psychological aspect of the bayonet is its most important virtue, IMHO. For practicality, that's why I have a pistol.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:42:19 PM EST
Sure I would. What else ya gonna do when you're getting low on ammo? Shit, at least it gives ya a chance.

I think the bbl would fare okay, FWIW.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:44:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2004 1:44:56 PM EST by drjarhead]
x2
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:47:49 PM EST
If its all i had.

yes.


Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:48:24 PM EST

Would you ever use a bayonet on an M-4?


No, them M-4s are hard as a rock and don't bleed!

But seriously, I've always thought a bayonet is a waste on a rifle...Until I saw picture of a US Soldier keeping an angry Iraqi crowd away from a building when they were promised jobs. It was the new M-9 bayonet and nearly covered half of one of those turd world countryman's heads. Not that the bayonet would be overly usueful, but I'm certain any thoughts of rushing the guard were qualled by the thought of that meaty blade penetrating their hides.

Sly
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:01:50 PM EST
Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I'd take my chances with a bayonet thrust on a carbine before a buttstroke with a tele stock. When I went through MCRD San Diego bayonet fighting was still taught because it is still an essential skill.

Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:08:00 PM EST
It was taught at MCRD in SanDeigo when I went through as well. I just think it feels really flimsy on an M-4. No problem with a full sized AR/M-16 variant.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:08:35 PM EST
i have one but i have a 16" barrel and my bayonet is for a commando length...so it is real short - like a shank!
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:09:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:
If its all i had.

yes.





I agree, its a last resort weapon.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:11:57 PM EST
I think that fighting with a bayonet is an honorable tradition that should be kept up. whether or not id use one on an M4 i dont know as ive never owned an M4.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:19:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth:
I have put a bayonet on my AR full size just for looks from time to time, & I have snapped one on my M-4 just to see how it looks. If it came down to a real shft situation I would not consider putting a bayonet on my M-4 for a close in fight. It just seem to flimsy & give me the feeling it would damage the barrel of the weapon. Not so however on my AR's barrel.

So would you use a bayonet on your M-4?




That is because the shorty handguards leave too much barrel between the bayo lug and the flash suppressor. I have an ArmaLite M15A2 SOF upper done up preban style and put it on one of my preban lowers. The ArmaLite mid-length handguards make the spacing right for a bayo.





Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:21:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:32:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:00:52 PM EST
My problem would be which 1 to use! I have a German HK style as well as the M-7 and M-9 .I think the M-9 is not a good knife , I can't get an edge on it.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:06:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:09:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
No, I don't see the point in an M4 when you can get an AR with a full 16" rifled barrel that's the same size



'cuase after you add a muzzle device of some sort to protect the crown, you have an 18" rifle that is getting a little long for tight quarters
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:11:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:13:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Burnsome-:
sure. i use one to stick the upper assembly into the dirt when changing out uppers after a beta mag full auto burst so it can cool off in the air, while i continue shooting another upper.....



Nice. And quite resourceful. Is it hot enough to cook hot dogs off of?

I think a strong stock for cracking heads open serves better than a bayonet. Stick it in, you have to get it back out, which leaves you somewhat vulnerable. Crackins skulls with a stock? YOu can just keep on bashing. One of the other members joked about this and I loved it. Get the ACE Ltd M4 SOCOM... "it's got a frickin meat hammer on it!!!"

Link Posted: 5/12/2004 5:10:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
No, I don't see the point in an M4 when you can get an AR with a full 16" rifled barrel that's the same size


I gotta agree with Aimless. Unless you have the GL an M4 is pointless. Might as well have a lighter barrel and longer HGs.

Having said that my first AR was the M4 LEGP.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 5:19:30 PM EST
I don't need a bayonet. That Phantom Flash Supressor will poke a hole right through just about anything, and I'm sure those deadly little ribs (for her pleasure) on the side would tear you up on the way out too.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 5:21:26 PM EST
Honestly, if I was in a situation where the possibility of bayonetting would present itself it would be CQB. For CQB, I'd personally remove anything non-essential from the front end asto shorten the OAL. I'd have pistol for backup, and worst comes to worst, I can hit with that butt pretty hard.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 5:25:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 6:01:57 PM EST
why would you want to stab your rifle?
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 6:33:36 PM EST
The worst things a soldier can ever hear:

"Fix Bayonets"

When the brand new private says "Don't worry, they taught us how to do this in Basic"

When the Captain says "Hey! I've got an idea!"

When the crusty old warrant officer elbows you, points, and says "Hey, watch this Shit!"
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 6:43:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
No, I don't see the point in an M4 when you can get an AR with a full 16" rifled barrel that's the same size



'cuase after you add a muzzle device of some sort to protect the crown, you have an 18" rifle that is getting a little long for tight quarters



According to Bushmaster, the A2 f/s adds 1-1/8" to the length of an AR bbl once it's threaded into place.

I agree with you, though, I don't like the "naked" look of a bare AR bbl.

After 9/14/04 I plan to get a 14-1/2" M4 bbl with the Phantom f/s installed. That brings the bbl length to about 16-1/16". It will be my 100m carbine with M193.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 7:45:26 PM EST
Bayonets are just for parade. In World War I edged weapons (bayonets, knives and swords) inflicted less then one-fourth of one percent of all casualties. They've become even less relevant since then, not more. If you want a backup, carry a pistol.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 8:08:34 PM EST
I wish modern bayonets were long like the ones for the M1s and 1903s
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 9:44:06 PM EST
Apparently after the bayonet course, the barrel on the Austeyr F88 bends...
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:19:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rosstradamus:
In World War I edged weapons (bayonets, knives and swords) inflicted less then one-fourth of one percent of all casualties.



I'm surprised they accounted for even that much.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:50:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 4:57:12 AM EST
It may still have some use in Infantry combat. I think the best use for the bayonet is to help recruits in Basic make the mental shift to the mindset that they may have to take another human being's life. Refresher is nice. When one of my units assigned PT out to the lower-level folks for leadership building, my PT was always ruck marches or bayonet drill (usually followed by a ruck march). Nothing funnier than wathing a company of MI troops screaming "Kill! Kill! Kill!" Not very useful training, but cheap and motivating. If I remember, the last bayonet charge in US military history was a sucessful counter-attack by a rifle company from the Wolfhounds circa about 1952 in Korea. I also seem to recall that the Company Commander was awarded the Medal of Honor for that one, as well. That one is aan anomaly, and I would wager that bayonets (as my grandfather told me) probably caused more injuries to our own troops from playing mublety-peg and trying to open beer cans than they did to the enemy in every conflict since WWI. In my own experience, the fixed bayonet can cause some rather nasty neck and ear wounds to troops who pass out during change-of-command cermeonies, which in some units is about the only time you will see bayonets, and also seems to be another MI favorite, even though they are probably less likely to use a bayonet for its intended purpose than anyone else in the Army.

While outdated, I think that bayonet training needs to continue. It is a good way to fire troops up and motivate them, and remind them that whether they are hard-core grunts or pencil-jockeys, they are still "killers."

I have a couple of bayonets floating around. My M1, or other old military weapons, wouldn't be complete without bayonets (anyone know where I can find a MK III Enfield bayonet?). As to actually using one, I do happen to carry an issued Colt M4 for some social occasions. A bayonet (and the old M8 I have does fit) would be pretty hard to justify to the Grand Jury, and is not listed in our Use-of-force continuum. I can think of no way to articulate a need for them for street use, as we always carry a handgun, too. That being said, we do teach muzzle strikes and rakes with carbine, but only as a defensive move during weapon take-aways, and even then a better response is usually going to be letting them have some rounds first.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 6:29:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 6:31:12 AM EST by Tanker06]
Right after we were issued new A2s in Germany (`87 timeframe), the Scout Lt. decided that they needed some motivational-type
training. So they went to the armsroom, drew weapons & bayonets, then dressed in PT gear and black leather gloves, went to the
PT field for drills. On one another.

They didn't go full bore, but I have distinct memories of sitting there at the CQ desk (armsroom was right next to it) when they came
back in. Remember, brand-new rifles which I don't think we'd even zeroed in yet: Huge gouges in the handguards and stocks, several
scratched receivers, lots of cut fingers and mangled gloves. I thought that the armorer was going to shit kittens when he saw what they
had done. (ISTR that the LT ended up paying a chunk of change for new handguards etc, due to their playtime.....)

We used the bayos on our A2 during DS, but it was more of a psychological thing while herding prisoners. (And I do mean herding.)
99.9% of them were glad to be there, being taken care of, not being bombed round the clock, but I wasn't too sure that there might not
be a hold-out in the crowd, so.... Kept `em honest.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 1:11:44 PM EST
Does anyone have the link to the drive by bayoneting? It needs to be here.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 1:16:48 PM EST
You could poke your eye out, who needs that liability?
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 3:48:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By chuckhammer:

Originally Posted By Rosstradamus:
In World War I edged weapons (bayonets, knives and swords) inflicted less then one-fourth of one percent of all casualties.



I'm surprised they accounted for even that much.



Watch Gallipoli. The idiotic officers ordered their men to unload their rifles and attack with nothing but their bayonets.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:43:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rosstradamus:

Originally Posted By chuckhammer:

Originally Posted By Rosstradamus:
In World War I edged weapons (bayonets, knives and swords) inflicted less then one-fourth of one percent of all casualties.



I'm surprised they accounted for even that much.



Watch Gallipoli. The idiotic officers ordered their men to unload their rifles and attack with nothing but their bayonets.



British officers...
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:01:33 AM EST
When I was in Iraq I used a bayonet on an M16A2 to keep the Iraqis from swarming the trucks several times. If you give one of them a good hard poke in the ribs, he'll scream louder than anyone you ever heard, and the street will clear in a matter of seconds. That being said, I would sure hate to have a bayonet as my last option.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:54:40 AM EST
I've only attached my bayonet to my M4 once, and that was only to discourage Iraqi civilians from approaching. Bayonets are comforting to have, if only a psychological comfort. But Iraqis understand it better than anything else. Point a weapon at them and they laugh, pull a blade and they run!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:00:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Special-K:
The worst things a soldier can ever hear:

"Fix Bayonets"

When the brand new private says "Don't worry, they taught us how to do this in Basic"

When the Captain says "Hey! I've got an idea!"

When the crusty old warrant officer elbows you, points, and says "Hey, watch this Shit!"



If you need to fix bayonets these days, then it is time to retreat!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:47:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By rifleman2000:
I've only attached my bayonet to my M4 once, and that was only to discourage Iraqi civilians from approaching. Bayonets are comforting to have, if only a psychological comfort. But Iraqis understand it better than anything else. Point a weapon at them and they laugh, pull a blade and they run!



I think it has something to do with the threat of beheading with a short knife or something. I understand that they know something about this...
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:00:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:03:36 AM EST
When a crowd is surging and pushing towards a group of Marines, you'd be surprised how effective the bayonet is for making them keep their distance.
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