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Posted: 9/18/2009 10:50:54 PM EST
Would you consider a legalized illegal immigrant as an American? What about after 5 years? Would you consider their kids American?

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 10:57:47 PM EST
It doesn't matter, they'll be legal whatever we 'consider' them to be.

Wait til the court cases start over people who've been 'made legal', and the people who don't think they need to treat them as such.

You think your taxes are high now, wait til you pay for everyone who can limbo under the wire and wins an honorary citizenship for everyone he's ever been related to.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 10:59:33 PM EST
I don't know anymore.
Maybe it is just the news because ALL the immigrunts can't be fuck-ups

You have the Lebanese guy up in Detroit that murdered the 21 year old kid in cold blood.
You have the dudes down in the southwest and over in Cali. who are involved with the Mexican drug cartels.
You have the smirking prick from Pakistan who may or may not be involved in a possible terrorist attack here in the US who admits that he was trained by Al Quaeda but the evidence that he actually did anything wrong is lacking and no unusual means to extract anything from him because we are politically correct nice guys now.
Dudes in NYC with the terror ties.
It goes on and on.

I am seriously beginning to wonder why anyone would want to immigrate here now anyway, the golden lands of opportunity appear to be China, India, and Brazil right now.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:19:18 PM EST
Didn't they do mass deportations during the depression to help the people here find jobs?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:14:31 AM EST
A leglaized illegal alien is by definition an alien.
Someone is confused.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:28:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By max229:
Didn't they do mass deportations during the depression to help the people here find jobs?


Operation Wetback and Operation Wetback II
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:37:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Colt45guy:
Originally Posted By max229:
Didn't they do mass deportations during the depression to help the people here find jobs?


Operation Wetback and Operation Wetback II


I'm going to guess wetback wasn't so racially insensitive back then
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:38:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Colt45guy:
Originally Posted By max229:
Didn't they do mass deportations during the depression to help the people here find jobs?
Operation Wetback and Operation Wetback II

I wonder what the chances are that we will see something like that again.


Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:38:49 AM EST
I know a legalized illegal. He's a better man than most, and American as you or me.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 2:13:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
I know a legalized illegal. He's a better man than most, and American as you or me.


I know a few of these guys. I am glad our ancestors didn't have to worry about this debate!

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 2:17:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 2:18:18 AM EST by WoodDevil]
Never! Screw em! They're the reason why every product we buy needs to have a label in both English and Spanish. Spanish, because they don't give a damn enough about this country to learn what should be the official language. Even after they've been here for years, they still don't bother to learn the language, but instead expect us to change to suit THEIR needs.

But some of the Latino women are kind of hot. So maybe I'll except a few of them ...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 2:22:34 AM EST
If they pay taxes, sure.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 2:25:17 AM EST
Fuck no, never. I've never been okay with any kind of "amnesty". Seriously, fuck them. We are truly being invaded.

I must say, folks who come here, just looking for something better, and work hard, do what they're supposed to, and become part of who and what we are as a Nation, hell, more power to them.

The man who started this thing we know as ARFCOM is one of those. Literally floated here from Cuba, and became a truly Great American, served in uniform, in combat, became highly educated, hope to meet the man one of these days.

But illegals are illegals. We make it easy to emmigrate here, we always have. If people can't follow the rules and become part of our system, the way they should be, forget it.

It's also about productivity. There are folks who come over, and eventually add to and produce..................then there are shitbags, who come over, and take away..................and that's all they do.

Fuck them.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 2:49:35 AM EST
No, I won't consider them real Americans. I think it will cause a further rift between us and them, maybe in the end it will work out for us. If enough Americans get pissed off about it then maybe we will make it stop. I think the quality of immigrant has gone severely, on average, in the last 20 years. All we are doing with these illegals is importing a another welfare class. When I hear these guys at work I constantly hear "My country, my country..." I ask them what is your country? If you don't consider this your country then you should go to wherever it is that you consider your country. I don't think a lot of these guys want to be Americans, they just think they can hit the jackpot with an easy life by coming here and collecting on whatever "social programs" they can. I feel I can speak openly on this, I'm first generation. You would never know my dad immigrated here if you met him. He has no accent, except maybe Midwestern. He went in the Marines to fight for this country and got his citizenship though it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 2:56:46 AM EST
Legalized illegal. What kind of libtard shit is that?

Hell No Never!!!
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 3:00:28 AM EST
Last time I heard there is a legal process they can do to come into the country to work, learn, live. My girlfriends grandfather came here during the civil war in Isreal/ Palestine in 47', left his wife and 3 kids to come here to get a new start, he applied for citizenship, took classes to learn to speak english better(they spoke arabic,french and english), only after he got a job, home and his citizenship, which took years; once he finally had the money he brought his family over. So now some people just want to take 12-20 million undocumented illegal aliens and just give them citizenship, put them to the front of the line dont need a line, I say they can go the fuck back to their country and go through the process legally, I just dont get the debate, they came here illegally in violation of our immigration laws.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 3:00:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
I know a legalized illegal. He's a better man than most, and American as you or me.


Works hard, pays his taxes, and has my American Values, then he would be okay in my book. Otherwise NO!

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:31:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 7:40:13 AM EST by kaos]

Originally Posted By Colt45guy:
Originally Posted By max229:
Didn't they do mass deportations during the depression to help the people here find jobs?


Operation Wetback and Operation Wetback II
I believe Wetback was Eisenhower.

And I recall something about how we held a portion of the 'guest worker's' salary in escrow - sent it to the Mexican govt to give to the worker when he returned home.

The Mex govt screwed them out of it- and kept it all.

ETA: Why isn't 'Legalizing an illegal Alien' just like letting an embezzler keep the money he stole once he gets out of prison?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:35:49 AM EST
depends on how the illegal became legal.


did he go through the process of becoming a legal immigrant/citizen/etc?

or was he just handed his status as part of an amnesty program?


my answer will change depending on the above questions.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:37:27 AM EST
Legalized how?

By coming here illegally but going back and doing it the right way? Then if they did it the right way, sure they're legal.

If they were illegal and Obama just said "poof, you're legal", then no.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:37:48 AM EST
Sick of this shit.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:37:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4-AK:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
I know a legalized illegal. He's a better man than most, and American as you or me.


Works hard, pays his taxes, and has my American Values, then he would be okay in my book. Otherwise NO!


I'll do you one better. He works hard, pays his taxes, learned English, learned a trade, married and is raising 2 Christian children. What does Arfcom have a problem with?

Of the top of my head, I can think of 10 (or more) "natural born" Americans I'd gladly send to Mexico in trade.

Yes, he came here illegally. But he got his shit together and Americanized. I know he's the exception, not the rule, but he proves there are exceptions.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:48:37 AM EST
If they are legalized most of the arguments against them would end. They will be just as American as any of us. Bout the only thing you could complain about is just normal stuff any of us might have about anyone.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:52:01 AM EST
Sure, if they're actually proud to be here and to be Americans. Most aren't, so fuck them.

I don't doubt that if the whole "legalize all the illegals" route goes through, plenty of them will leave - they're just here for the free cookies and punch, as it were. Getting legalized would fuck that all up for them.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:57:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By DemonicLemming:
Sure, if they're actually proud to be here and to be Americans. Most aren't, so fuck them.

I don't doubt that if the whole "legalize all the illegals" route goes through, plenty of them will leave - they're just here for the free cookies and punch, as it were. Getting legalized would fuck that all up for them.

Don't think so. They'd probably want to become more like Americans than they do now.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:57:54 AM EST



Never.



Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:58:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lympago:



Never.





this...fuck them
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:00:28 AM EST
This "Amnesty" is bullshit.

If they come here by following the rules, more power to them.

If they come here illegally and are granted amnesty, fuck them. I have a nephew-in-law that came here illegally, bought his citizenship under the last "we'll just make them all legal" amnesty, and he is an ungrateful turd. He doesn't want to be an American. He wants to enjoy our lifestyle while we accommodate his preferences. He won't speak English at home, and the last time he went "home", he smuggled his sister back here.

Fuck them.

My MIL immigrated from Germany. She had to speak English, and know more about American History and the Constitution than I learned in school before she qualified to come here.

She says fuck them, too.


This may be hypocritical, but I do not see the circumstances that brought Ed Sr. here in the the same way that I do the invasion that we are being forced to endure.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:18:42 AM EST
Nope.

I would consider them to be the illegal pawns of a political party...only for the continuation of their corrupt positions.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:00:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tekka:
If they are legalized most of the arguments against them would end. They will be just as American as any of us. Bout the only thing you could complain about is just normal stuff any of us might have about anyone.
Well, one of the reasons business wants them here is because we can abuse them, and pay them less. They don't bitch to OSHA or complain about working 80 hours/week with no overtime or labor burden. There are many cases where employers hold pay for a month, then report the aliens for deportation. (sometimes it backfires, but it still happens).

Once you legalize them, business needs a whole new pool of illegals who wont bitch to OSHA and will work 80 hours/week with no overtime or labor burden.

It's a cycle that will restart the day after amnesty with a nifferent population of illegals.

Then you have 30 million newly minted citizens that need to find new jobs as lower waged illegals put them out of work. It's happened every time, and it'll happen every time.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:11:10 AM EST
Hard to say.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:13:39 AM EST
Only if they take the oath.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:14:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:16:03 AM EST
learn english, pay taxes, know the same amount of american history as public schools teach (very little), don't mooch off off of the system then they are welcome. None of this flying the mexican flag while sending 40% of the paycheck back to mexico stuff
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:16:06 AM EST
Ironic that we offer "cut-rate" citizenship and cannot follow our own laws and rules.

Actually it's criminal.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:21:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By hobbsar:
Only if they take the oath.


We've got a Canadian friend that has been here legally , jumping through hoops for twelve years to get her citizenship. Why fast track a bunch of lawbreakers just because of the sheer numbers?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:21:48 AM EST
A legalized illegal? No. They are lawbreakers who are being rewarded for breaking the law.

I have NO PROBLEM with legal immigration. None. My great grandparents immigrated here LEGALLY and made a life for themselves by doing things correctly. They waited for their citizenship, they learned English, they worked and paid taxes, and they became productive CITIZENS. The blood, sweat, and tears they poured into this country was done so with honest work and not trekking through a desert in 110 degree heat.

Rewarding illegals with citizenship sends a message that I'm not comfortable with. It's telling these people that we're bleeding hearts who are lenient enough to overlook the fact that they are law breakers while we bestow a GREAT HONOR on them. I don't want that message being sent. Why not just open up all prisons and let people out at this rate?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:24:48 AM EST
Get your citizenship the right way. Sure.
Cross the border illegally. No.

NO AMNESTY !! We have one and there will be more here seeking a second amnesty. There will be no end.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:27:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By kraftwerk:
Would you consider a legalized illegal immigrant as an American? What about after 5 years? Would you consider their kids American?

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

Their kids are 'American' right now - full citizens.

And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone who was amnestied, and someone who was here legally, anyway...

The only folks who would know, would be employers or LE who had the authority to demand their documents & saw whatever 'special' visa code they had...



Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:28:29 AM EST
I consider an "American" to be a concept that can not be put into "legal" or "illegal".

I do not doubt that there are plenty of native born US citizens that I would not consider 'Americans.'
Inversely, there are many who have never been to the US that I would grant them citizenship at the, almost, drop of a hat.

I guess it is a mindset thing. *shrug*
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:35:02 AM EST
I'm willing to debate legalizing illegals but only AFTER we close up the boarder.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:36:03 AM EST

cause that jackoff barack obama decide's that all of the sudden they're legal?

fuck him and fuck all the illegal immigrants who break the law.

and another thing that really pisses me off is how we have to pander to them. they should learn our ways and our language. not the other way around.

also if i was someone who came here legally and did it the right way i would be furious at the ones who did it the wrong way





Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:39:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By kraftwerk:
Would you consider a legalized illegal immigrant as an American? What about after 5 years? Would you consider their kids American?

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

Their kids are 'American' right now - full citizens.

And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone who was amnestied, and someone who was here legally, anyway...

The only folks who would know, would be employers or LE who had the authority to demand their documents & saw whatever 'special' visa code they had...




oh really? i guess the fact that they could care less about learning our language doesn't matter right?





Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:43:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By kraftwerk:
Would you consider a legalized illegal immigrant as an American? What about after 5 years? Would you consider their kids American?

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1

Their kids are 'American' right now - full citizens.

And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone who was amnestied, and someone who was here legally, anyway...

The only folks who would know, would be employers or LE who had the authority to demand their documents & saw whatever 'special' visa code they had...




oh really? i guess the fact that they could care less about learning our language doesn't matter right?






You do know it's possible to be in the US legally and not speak one word of English, right?

Like I said, the average citizen would be completely unable to tell who was legal and who was not...

I don't support amnesty/legalization (for immigrants OR drugs)...

But that has nothing to do with the validity of my statements...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:45:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 9:47:13 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Onefast93z28:
I'm willing to debate legalizing illegals but only AFTER we close up the boarder.

Securing the BORDER is not possible... Will never happen...

And personally, I'm *not* willing to debate legalizing illegals...

I'm FOR expanding the number of legal immigrants we let in (almost to old-fashioned, 'show up, test clean medically, Welcome to America' levels (with the additon of a biometric database background check for prior illegal entry/criminal ctivity)), which would logically reduce the number of illegals (as folks would leave to go home & come back in legally, before they could get caught/deported)....

But no amnesty... Period...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:47:38 AM EST
Last time Obama did something the legal way was the 2nd time he took the Oath...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:50:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tekka:

Originally Posted By DemonicLemming:
Sure, if they're actually proud to be here and to be Americans. Most aren't, so fuck them.

I don't doubt that if the whole "legalize all the illegals" route goes through, plenty of them will leave - they're just here for the free cookies and punch, as it were. Getting legalized would fuck that all up for them.

Don't think so. They'd probably want to become more like Americans than they do now.

Why? They'd have to pay for everything they get for free now, and if they wanted to do that, they wouldn't be illegals in the first place, they would have come into the country legally and undertaken the appropriate steps to become legal. Most of the illegals I've worked with had no desire to "become American", they were just here for the jobs and free medical benefits.

Most will either find some way to hide from legalization, or hop back over the border to come back later.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 9:57:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 9:58:45 AM EST by No-Worries]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Onefast93z28:
I'm willing to debate legalizing illegals but only AFTER we close up the boarder.

Securing the BORDER is not possible... Will never happen...

And personally, I'm *not* willing to debate legalizing illegals...

I'm FOR expanding the number of legal immigrants we let in (almost to old-fashioned, 'show up, test clean medically, Welcome to America' levels (with the additon of a biometric database background check for prior illegal entry/criminal ctivity)), which would logically reduce the number of illegals (as folks would leave to go home & come back in legally, before they could get caught/deported)....

But no amnesty... Period...


Nope. Unless we change the legal number from all countries legally and bring down central and south America as a percentage to match the levels of all other countries. California and Arizona are overflowing with illegals from central and south America. Illegals don't pay as much in taxes as they use in public services. No wonder so many public hospitals (80+) have closed in California. That's not by accident. They're being forced to treat them under EMTALA, but aren't being paid for services. Screw this suicidal latino dream.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 12:00:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:
Last time Obama did something the legal way was the 2nd time he took the Oath...


Link Posted: 9/19/2009 12:02:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By kraftwerk:
Would you consider a legalized illegal immigrant as an American? What about after 5 years? Would you consider their kids American?

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1
Their kids are 'American' right now - full citizens.

And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between someone who was amnestied, and someone who was here legally, anyway...

The only folks who would know, would be employers or LE who had the authority to demand their documents & saw whatever 'special' visa code they had...

I still think that we should not grant citizenship to the children of illegals.
Destroying the concept of the 'anchor baby' would go a long way to fixing the problem.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 12:04:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By kaos:
Originally Posted By Tekka:
If they are legalized most of the arguments against them would end. They will be just as American as any of us. Bout the only thing you could complain about is just normal stuff any of us might have about anyone.
Well, one of the reasons business wants them here is because we can abuse them, and pay them less. They don't bitch to OSHA or complain about working 80 hours/week with no overtime or labor burden. There are many cases where employers hold pay for a month, then report the aliens for deportation. (sometimes it backfires, but it still happens).

Once you legalize them, business needs a whole new pool of illegals who wont bitch to OSHA and will work 80 hours/week with no overtime or labor burden.

It's a cycle that will restart the day after amnesty with a nifferent population of illegals.

Then you have 30 million newly minted citizens that need to find new jobs as lower waged illegals put them out of work. It's happened every time, and it'll happen every time.

That's a very good point. Another reason not to give them amnesty.
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