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Posted: 8/21/2017 3:23:21 PM EDT
Dad is old school and we had this debate over the weekend.

What is the hive's opinion?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:25:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:25:55 PM EDT
[#2]
They make nice round holes with fairly even wound channels.

Hollow points make nice round holes with jagged wound channels.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:28:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Made for paper punching, better than no bullet.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:28:39 PM EDT
[#4]
One of the best 38/357 bullets is the 158 Gr. Lead Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point.

Full wadcutters make sweet holes in paper and penetrate really well.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:28:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Sure, if you're fighting paper people.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:29:37 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Sure, if you're fighting paper people.
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Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:30:03 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
One of the best 38/357 bullets is the 158 Gr. Lead Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point.

Full wadcutters make sweet holes in paper and penetrate really well.
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this
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:30:57 PM EDT
[#8]
... No
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:32:43 PM EDT
[#9]
A hot .38 158gr LSWC is a better round than a 9mm 147gr ball. The LSWC in .357 is no joke.

Standard WC are loaded light but cut tissue well all things considered.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:34:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Don't even bother to do a Google search on this idea. Because there is no information about this.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:34:16 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
Sure, if you're fighting paper people.
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Jackie Paper?
Flat Sam?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:35:05 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Don't even bother to do a Google search on this idea. Because there is no information about this.
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Feel free to go back to talking about the eclipse, Taylor Swift and trannies, leave the gun talk to the big kids.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:35:27 PM EDT
[#13]
I wouldn't want to be standing on the wrong side of one. 

Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:35:34 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Sure, if you're fighting paper people.
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Every shotgun Mafia thread ever, "Let me shoot you with it and see how you like it" and "My Daddy's Uncle's cousin's stepson's nephew saw a dude shot with one.  I'd ask him, but he's dead."
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:36:14 PM EDT
[#15]
According to some readings I've done they cut very clean holes through people that bleed out well since a clean cut blood vessel doesn't clot up as easily as a jagged wound. Usually low velocity so recoil is mild and for people sensitive to recoil is a blessing.  Beats hell out of a round nose. In the old days you had a choice between round nose or wadcutters in .38 spl.

NOT a horrible choice for a snubby.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:36:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Back in the old days we hot loaded hollow base wadcutters backward as personal defense ammo.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:36:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:39:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:40:48 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Back in the old days we hot loaded hollow base wadcutters backward as personal defense ammo.
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38 Special +P Atomic Ammo 148 Grain HBWC Loaded Backward Gel Test
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:40:54 PM EDT
[#20]
ETA:  THE OP CHANGED THE THREAD TITLE.  IT ORIGINALLY DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A 2" BARREL.


Depends on how you define "good," I suppose... when it comes to self-defense, I don't see a reason to settle for less than the best you can get.  A wadcutter isn't going to do this
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:42:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:44:13 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
Don't even bother to do a Google search on this idea. Because there is no information about this.
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Why would he even bring up ammo selection on a gun board when he has access to google?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:44:42 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
You don't need the "hive's opinion".
Doc GKR explains it well in the Arfcom FAQs about Best Ammo.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#mozTocId147912
Basically, full wadcutters do about as well as JHPs out of a snub nosed revolver against the 4 layer denim test.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/38_Sp_BUG_load_sample.jpg
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TLDR

Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:49:01 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
And neither are most JHPs out of a 2 inch revolver against heavy clothing.

See above.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Depends on how you define "good," I suppose... when it comes to self-defense, I don't see a reason to settle for less than the best you can get.  A wadcutter isn't going to do this
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fb/2e/41/fb2e41942ffc41d7880cb0ffa6794895.jpg
And neither are most JHPs out of a 2 inch revolver against heavy clothing.

See above.
ETA:  THE OP CHANGED THE THREAD TITLE.  IT ORIGINALLY DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A 2" BARREL. 

The OP didn't say anything about a 2" barrel or heavy clothing.  Why would you carry wadcutters when you could carry something that will perform far better under a lot of circumstances?  I don't see the point of saying that you might face a situation where the JHP doesn't have a significant advantage.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:51:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Penetration>Expansion
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:55:37 PM EDT
[#26]
There is a reason the old school gun bugs advocated their use over lead round nose. Out of a snub I am not sure there would be much difference between the classic metro load and a modern JHP. As you add more barrel length and you can take advantage of velocity, I'd bet you would start to see a difference.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:56:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The OP didn't say anything about a 2" barrel or heavy clothing.  Why would you carry wadcutters when you could carry something that will perform far better under a lot of circumstances?  I don't see the point of saying that you might face a situation where the JHP doesn't have a significant advantage.
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I changed the title, we were talking about short barreled revolvers.  He's a revolver guy, I like autos.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:58:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't even bother to do a Google search on this idea. Because there is no information about this.
View Quote
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:11:18 PM EDT
[#29]
I've read that wadcutters are better than lead round nose or ball as well. Keep in mind 20 years ago, you were limited on non +P 38 special rounds that were on the market. And you couldn't just jump online and order it. You'd be lucky to find it at a gun show. Today, you can get just about anything if you have a credit card. But damn near every Walmart had wadcutters. Still not horrible for a new shooter who might not like the recoil.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:11:27 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:
TLDR

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
You don't need the "hive's opinion".
Doc GKR explains it well in the Arfcom FAQs about Best Ammo.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#mozTocId147912
Basically, full wadcutters do about as well as JHPs out of a snub nosed revolver against the 4 layer denim test.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/38_Sp_BUG_load_sample.jpg
TLDR

Basically: wadcutters are certainly not ineffective from a snubby. Almost all JHP loads, even the good ones, have expansion issues at least occasionally, from such short barreled guns.

I wouldn't want to catch a wadcutter to the chest... And I would have zero problems carrying them, even my handloaded ones:



These were fired @ ~10' into water jugs from my 442... 130gr +P Ranger Bonded (RA38B):
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:13:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Depends on how you define "good," I suppose... when it comes to self-defense, I don't see a reason to settle for less than the best you can get.  A wadcutter isn't going to do this
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fb/2e/41/fb2e41942ffc41d7880cb0ffa6794895.jpg
View Quote
Neither will more JHP ammo from a 2" Brl in anything but bare gel. With dramatically more recoil.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:14:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The OP didn't say anything about a 2" barrel or heavy clothing.  Why would you carry wadcutters when you could carry something that will perform far better under a lot of circumstances?  I don't see the point of saying that you might face a situation where the JHP doesn't have a significant advantage.
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Because JHP ammo, when it expands, often under penetrates in marginal calibers like .380 and .38Spc
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:20:11 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
Neither will more JHP ammo from a 2" Brl in anything but bare gel. With dramatically more recoil.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Depends on how you define "good," I suppose... when it comes to self-defense, I don't see a reason to settle for less than the best you can get.  A wadcutter isn't going to do this
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fb/2e/41/fb2e41942ffc41d7880cb0ffa6794895.jpg
Neither will more JHP ammo from a 2" Brl in anything but bare gel. With dramatically more recoil.
As the OP stated, he changed the thread title.  It originally didn't say anything about a 2"barrel.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:22:03 PM EDT
[#34]
They will make a hole that will bleed profusely and you would probably have to plug with a finger to get it to slow down.

As Forged in Fire says " This bullet will kill."
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:30:12 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:
Because JHP ammo, when it expands, often under penetrates in marginal calibers like .380 and .38Spc
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

The OP didn't say anything about a 2" barrel or heavy clothing.  Why would you carry wadcutters when you could carry something that will perform far better under a lot of circumstances?  I don't see the point of saying that you might face a situation where the JHP doesn't have a significant advantage.
Because JHP ammo, when it expands, often under penetrates in marginal calibers like .380 and .38Spc
I haven't checked .38 ammo, but you can find .380 ammo that expands while still meeting FBI minimum penetration (although the OP wasn't asking about .380; of course you can always find guns or situations where JHP might not be the best choice). 
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:37:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Soft lead hollow base wad cutters would be a poor choice .


SWC design would be a better option.  


But personally I'd use jacketed hollow points .  



gd
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:38:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Very,  but shot placement becomes even more important. The newer HP's for short barrels is good stuff, the older standard HPs, not so good.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:39:38 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:


Because JHP ammo, when it expands, often under penetrates in marginal calibers like .380 and .38Spc
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How is a .357 bullet weighing 158gr going 900fps considered marginal but a .355 bullet weighing 147gr going 950fps is not?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:40:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Depends on how you define "good," I suppose... when it comes to self-defense, I don't see a reason to settle for less than the best you can get.  A wadcutter isn't going to do this
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fb/2e/41/fb2e41942ffc41d7880cb0ffa6794895.jpg
View Quote
When dealing with 2" or shorter barrels, velocity becomes a HUGE factor in whether or not a JHP will expand like that. If I had to carry a .38 snub, I'd load it with Buffalo Bore 150gr. hard-cast wadcutters. A clean, deep wound channel that isn't velocity-dependent.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:42:28 PM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:


When dealing with 2" or shorter barrels, velocity becomes a HUGE factor in whether or not a JHP will expand like that. If I had to carry a .38 snub, I'd load it with Buffalo Bore 150gr. hard-cast wadcutters. A clean, deep wound channel that isn't velocity-dependent.
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Fuck, I'm going to go back and edit all of my posts in this thread to add that THE OP CHANGED THE THREAD TITLE.  IT ORIGINALLY DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A 2" BARREL.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:43:14 PM EDT
[#41]
For a time I carried the hollow base wad cutters in a snubbie, but thought better of it when they failed to penetrate an old washing machine I was shooting.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:51:19 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:


How is a .357 bullet weighing 158gr going 900fps considered marginal but a .355 bullet weighing 147gr going 950fps is not?
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I think it's because the 9mm is a Nazi round, so that makes it extra lethal.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:53:23 PM EDT
[#43]
I love the wadcutters.  I just fired a couple hundred last week through three wheel guns.  They fly like a laser beam.  

For defense, I carry HST loads in all the things.  
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:54:42 PM EDT
[#44]
When pushing HBWC I was always told to be careful not to load them too hot. The obvious reason is you don't want to lead the barrel. If loaded too hot, the hollow base could be left in the barrel, pushing out the wadcutter. The follow up shot could be dicy. I never had this problem, because I kept them fairly slow.

There was an article years ago about loading HBWC backwards. I loaded some up. Accuracy was acceptable at 25 yds. Hitting  a 1/2" plate, they flattened to about 1-1/8" dia. The bullet was  5/8" long unfired and flattened to 3/16" tall. You could also drive them faster because you didn't have to worry about base seperation, tho leading would still be an issue.

These were speer 148gr HBWC , 4.2 gr W231, CCI 500 , WW brass. OAL inverted 1.145", 6" python. Per Hornady 3rd, they were about 950fps.Cost was 7.2 cents/ Rd last time I loaded these. All of this is OLD data, find newer data elsewhere.

HBWC loaded normal, no expansion in the wood we were shooting at. None. I wouldn't recommend the above reversed HBWC for SD, they are inconsistent. When they do expand, it's big. I did use one of these to dispatch a medium sized animal at close range. It was dead before it hit the ground.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:56:28 PM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:
Don't even bother to do a Google search on this idea. Because there is no information about this.
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I'm pretty sure this falls under the umbrella of "gun discussion board" but let me google it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:13:34 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:


How is a .357 bullet weighing 158gr going 900fps considered marginal but a .355 bullet weighing 147gr going 950fps is not?
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You won't get 158 @900FPS from a 2" .38

With +P you can expect about 780FPS with 158Gn from a 2".
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:17:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Plated DEWCs loaded stout would be a good load in either stubby or duty size revolvers.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:19:20 PM EDT
[#48]
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Quoted:


Feel free to go back to talking about the eclipse, Taylor Swift and trannies, leave the gun talk to the big kids.
View Quote
Sarcasm
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:25:04 PM EDT
[#49]
In a snubbie, LWCs are a good compromise between low recoil and terminal performance. I used to handload lots of LWCs for my S&W 49.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 5:34:03 PM EDT
[#50]
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Quoted:


You won't get 158 @900FPS from a 2" .38
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I get close. Close enough to be functionally the same.  Over 900fps in my 3" with a max load of Power Pistol and 158gr.

Lets see what most 9mm hollowpoints do from a 2" barrel.
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