Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 10/10/2007 9:11:07 AM EST
why not?

Ive met lots of good union workers. I have a couple neighbors and we often go shoot and stuff. Good people. One did offer me to drink the union kool-aid recently, but I declined the offer.

Why would an ablebodied American citizen turn down an offer, to eventually after their 5 year apprenticeship, make 40 bucks or more?

Unions guys get called commies and socialists here, but just because they work for a union, which does donate to liberal crap, make them commies, too?

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:11:48 AM EST
Hell, I do.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:14:28 AM EST
I took a pretty good cut in pay to stay away from a union job

One of the best things I've ever done
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:14:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Would Yopu Work For a union?



I don't know anyone named "Yopu".
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:15:37 AM EST
No.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:19:25 AM EST
no way Jose
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:24:38 AM EST
No, on principle. Sorry.

I'm worth what I'm worth. I'm worth whatever I am able to negotiate with my employer on the free market. We may not always agree, but that's the cold hard truth.

I'm in the process of negotiating a compensation package with a new company. The ball is in my court. I'm skilled, and I'm really good at what I do. I'm looking out for my best interest, and the company is looking out for theirs. They want to be as profitable as possible, and I want to get paid as much as possible. They need me, and I (kinda) need them. We meet somewhere in the middle. That's how it works.

No one is capable of negotiating on my behalf better than me. It's my life, and I'm responsible for it. My compensation package is mine and mine only, and I'm not going to trust something that important to a third party.

I do not belong to any one company. My skills and talents are mine, and mine alone. I rent my time to employers. For 8 (or so) hours a day, 5 days or so a week, I provide them with something they need and they pay me for it. If either one of us is unsatisfied with the arrangement, we part ways.

I just don't have the union mindset, and I never will. I'm opposed to the whole idea on a very deep level. Freedom works both ways. My employer doesn't owe me a job, and I don't owe them my time. We work for each other's benefit. If my company doesn't want to pay me what I think I'm worth, then that's their right. It's their company, not mine. If they pay under market rate, then I will have no problem finding work elsewhere. If nobody wants to pay me what I think I'm worth, then I guess I wasn't actually worth that much now, was I?
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:27:27 AM EST
What Subnet said.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:29:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:
No, on principle. Sorry.

<snip>



Bee. Eye. En. Gee. Oh.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:29:18 AM EST
No collective bargaining for me.

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:34:02 AM EST
Former union member here.
I hated it daily because I was an A+ guy in a D- environment.
The system is set up for the dumbest, slowest member.
Unions suck. Legalized extortion and fraud. Just like Congress
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:34:30 AM EST
I was in the CWA for about 6 years. I hated it. Their little newsletter every month read just like a commie manifesto
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:34:44 AM EST
I have worked for a Union in the past when I worked for G.E. as a machinist. We had really good pay but it drove up our cost of doing bussiness and it was past on to the customers and we lost a lot of work because of it. We had people working there that once they made it through their 6 month probation period it became next to impossible to fire them so they pretty much stoped working because they knew they could not be fired. I will never work for a union again.

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:35:42 AM EST
Heck yeah dude! Hardly have to work, get money SHOWERED on me... Sign me up.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:36:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
Former union member here.
I hated it daily because I was an A+ guy in a D- environment.
The system is set up for the dumbest, slowest member.
Unions suck. Legalized extortion and fraud. Just like Congress


exactly how I felt. You would just watch complete idiots doing nothing and getting paid the same as you and if they had seniority then they got first choice at shifts, etc. It was the most aggravating job I've ever had. Anyone with any ambition cannot work a union job for long.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:39:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 9:40:16 AM EST by NoVaGator]

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
Unions guys get called commies and socialists here, but just because they work for a union, which does donate to liberal crap, make them commies, too?



actually, the fact that they choose to bargain on the strength of the collective rather than upon their own individual worth and abilities is what makes them commies.

liberal is not necessarily equivalent with commie

collectivist is commie

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:39:29 AM EST
only if I couldn't find another job
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:40:47 AM EST
Crap! I would just about work for any one right now. (Notice I said" just about")
Being unemployed is the suxxor.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:41:52 AM EST
If it was between that or starve/welfare, absolutely.

But, what job would I have working for a union? Could I be one of the thugs?

TXL
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:43:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By jtw2:
exactly how I felt. You would just watch complete idiots doing nothing and getting paid the same as you and if they had seniority then they got first choice at shifts, etc. It was the most aggravating job I've ever had. Anyone with any ambition cannot work a union job for long.


This is my problem. I actually see them as holding me back, not helping me out. It's a different mindset, and it's something I'll never be able to wrap my arms around. They stifle innovation, and foster an Us vs Them mindset. I just can't take it. In the process of defining my job very narrowly (to protect me), they end up removing my ability to acquire a unique skillset that best matches my natural talents.

In other words, they want to define me. When you become too specialized (comfortable and easy as that may be), you then depend on the Union to keep your job around should that very specific skillset become unattractive on the free market. Now you're screwed, and you've placed your future in somebody else's hands. And they call this job security, somehow.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:46:13 AM EST
Got myself edumcated so I don't have to.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:48:11 AM EST
Can one use 'work' and 'union' in the same sentence? Could I sit on my butt and make way more than I could ever be worth? Maybe for a short time.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:52:42 AM EST
I have recently been offered a job at a union shop. Pay is pretty good. Joining is kind of a hang up for me. I'm not a big fan of unions. Still haven't decided if I'll take the job. Its also night shift which I think I may have trouble with but that not part of the OP's original question
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:56:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By zeekh:
I have recently been offered a job at a union shop. Pay is pretty good. Joining is kind of a hang up for me. I'm not a big fan of unions. Still haven't decided if I'll take the job. Its also night shift which I think I may have trouble with but that not part of the OP's original question


I have worked for a union shop before my advice to you is

Run Forest Run
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:58:57 AM EST
my liberty isn't for sale. not to a company or a union.

unions are like the mob - once you get in, you can't get out. you'll always owe them something.

besides, they shot up bama's garage.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:00:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By zeekh:
I have recently been offered a job at a union shop. Pay is pretty good. Joining is kind of a hang up for me. I'm not a big fan of unions. Still haven't decided if I'll take the job. Its also night shift which I think I may have trouble with but that not part of the OP's original question


It's not always a bad thing, and if you need the job - by all means, put you and your family first. But consider the other things I mentioned earlier. Not only do you have to consider your immediate needs, but you need to consider your future solvency. Take the money now, but remain vigilant and NEVER let yourself feel comfortable or secure. It could all go away tomorrow, and you need to remain marketable. You need to make sure the union isn't holding you back. You have to step back and look at the big picture.

Every industry is different in that regard, but the only one in control of your future is you. Heck, sometimes unions actually negotiate equitable agreements. They're not all the UAW, after all. But they do have a tendency to foster complacency, and that spells disaster should you find yourself in the unfortunate position of needing to find employment elsewhere for whatever reason.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:05:41 AM EST

Yes, but with disgust in my every breathe


That's the correct answer.....especially for those with families to support. Do what's best for your family. If pay and benefits are best with a union, go there. Doing so is NOT an endorsement of Socialism.

5sub
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:05:50 AM EST
I want to know where all of these union jobs are where you don't have to do any work but get payed more than everyone else. They must be everywhere in every city in the US because of all the examples that people like to bring up.
I am a USW Union local officer.
Where I work, we not only operate the equipment, but we have to fix it when it breaks too. Our employees are expected to operate and maintain. There is no seperate maintenance department with mechanics waiting around for something to break and playing cards. Those who have a higher level of maintenance skills get paid more than those who do not, but there are advanced operators who get paid more than the basic operators also. We have Union members doing traditional management type jobs like scheduling and production/maintenance planning. I have worked in non-union facilities. Our union members do more skilled work although our working conditions including safety is better.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:20:56 AM EST
My wife was a member of a teacher's union back in the 1970s. She had joined the union because teachers were not paid very much money and the union was good at salary negotiations. However, in the election of 1980 she found out that her union was supporting Jimmy Carter for President and using her union dues to do it.

She raised all kinds of hell and then told the union to cram it. Thank goodness Florida is a Right to Work State.

She would never be a member of an union again.

I have never been a union member and never will. I am an individual and don't need to join with a bunch of other Socialists. When I have a choice I will not even buy products made by an American union. For instance, I will not buy a car made by the UAW.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:23:38 AM EST
When comparing two identical jobs I wouldn't look at it as union or non union I would compare the financial packages (including the cost of being in the union) and take the job that pays the most.
Be sure to consider the future effects being in the union might have on the financial package. Instead of being able to negotiate your own increases you'll likely be stuck with whatever the union negotiates.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:24:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 10:29:29 AM EST by -AR18-]
You dont work for the union, anymore than you work for the federal gov just because you pay dues (taxes).

When I was a member of the boyscouts, I went to camp for fun, I did not go to camp "for the boyscouts"
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:37:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:
Our union members do more skilled work although our working conditions including safety is better.


I was an ES&H Manager/Director/VP during my 30 year career in the aerospace industry. I managed safety programs and in my last assignment had a couple of hundred union employees.

I had to deal with the union using safety as a reason to make their job easier. They would also used "safety concerns" as way to get even with management whenever we got too upitty (I was told that by a union stewart one time).

My company put just as much emphasis on safety in the non union facilites as they did in the union facilities.

I lost all respect for union members. Several of them that I worked with were also members of my shooting range. They wanted to act like union assholes at work during the week and be good old boys at the range on the weekend. I got where I wouldn't have anything to do with them.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:38:08 AM EST
Depends on the job and current situation i am in.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:40:57 AM EST
Hell yeah!

Id love to have a job watching a conveyor belt ot bolting something in here and there for 15-20 bucks or more an hour with guaranteed quarterly raises etc;
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:42:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 10:43:27 AM EST by NoStockBikes]
I think that depends what kind of job Yopu has. It sounds like he may be from India, so he may well find himself working in customer service call centers or computer programming, which do not have unions to the best of my knowledge.
Top Top