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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/29/2002 9:55:15 AM EDT
As another [i]retired[/i] FFL {that some of you people don't seem to believe are going away} I am trying to conclude business and disperse remaining inventory. Said stuff to this story includes some remaining inventory and pawned firearms. Well another piece of the pie is I need to replace a firearm for a customer that was one of two stolen by USPS [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=108060[/url] but, before they will send it to me they want an extension letter from the ATF (which I have heard of people getting countless times.) Yesterday I called the Seattle ATF inspectors office and told them my plight, they told me I would need to contact the head licensing office in Atlanta to get it. When I called it was of course to nothing more than a voicemail. Today I get a call from this dumb bitch "[i]axing[/i] what I wanted?" I explained to her my situation to which she replied, "I [i]can'ts[/i] give ya that". I asked why; she said that my FFL is expired. I again explained that is why I need an extension letter. She then tells me I need to call my local inspector's office in Seattle and tell them. I am getting a little heated as I again explain to her that I have already done that and that is why I am talking to her. We argue back and forth about what I [b]need[/b] and what she [b]can't[/b] do. She repeatedly tells me doing any business with an expired FFL is "not in compliance" (I wonder why they don't use the term illegal?) So I ask her that I can just transfer the remaining firearms into my name off the logs? To which her response is [b]"Do you have any automatic weapons?"[/b] No do not. She says that I will have to consign them to another licensed dealer. To which I call BS and that I am not willing to do. I tell her that I have a few remaining firearms and that I need an extension letter. She says that I will need to re-apply for an FFL - I told he I am not willing to do so as I will be done with all transaction within a couple of weeks. To which she replies [b]"I thought you told me you didn't have any automatic weapons!"[/b] Now I am really at a loss on this one, I asked who said anything about automatic weapons? She says, "You did" - me "Did not" her - "yes you did" - you get the picture. By now I am steamed (I just happened to catch the Randy Weaver story on TV last night right before I went to bed). So she tells me again that I need to call the local inspectors office, I tell her I am not. She says that I am in non-compliance by doing business and that I need to consign the remaining firearms with another dealer. To which I respond how can I do that (would require me doing business) and who would I get to take them (my FFL is expired), to which there is a long pause................. Me - "Did I stump ya?" She replies "Please hold", and vanishes never to be heard from again. Had the SOB's at the USPS not stolen my rifles, I would not getting jacked off by the ATF. Fuck em all. 1(NON)GUNRUNNER
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 10:12:01 AM EDT
Part of the problem is that the application process for becoming an ATF employee is that you must be able to count to your IQ on your fingers in 5 seconds or less. Those that are accepted are then sent to bureaucrat school for 52 weeks of intensive training. Then comes the firearms training, including such insightful courses as "The Differences Between Automatic Weapons and Root Vegetables," or "How To Distinguish Between a Shotgun and a Lampshade." Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I'm not surprised.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 10:15:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2002 11:50:26 AM EDT by platform389]
THE PROVISIONS OF THE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY ACT HAVE BEEN COMPLIED WITH IN THE SELECTION OF EMPLOYEES FOR THIS POSITION. Think it was "fun" dealing with this sort of thing by phone? Try working "wit" it everyday. [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/sadness.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 10:21:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By platform389: THE PROVISIONS OF THE EQUAL EMPLOYEMENT OPPORTUNTITY ACT HAVE BEEN COMPLIED WITH IN THE SELECTION OF EMPLOYEES FOR THIS POSITION.
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[V] Sad, but very true
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 10:21:21 AM EDT
1(NON)GUNRUNNER, I feel for you. I've been trying to get a simple question answered from them for about two weeks without luck. I bought a pre-1899 receiver mailorder, and I had a couple of questions about what I could do with it. The idiot I talked to informed me that I bought it illegally since I didn't go through an FFL. Uhhh, it was made in 1895. Four calls later, I talked to a supervisor. He said pre-1899 firearms didn't come under the BATF's responsibility, so I could do [i]whatever[/i] I wanted to with it, even turn it into a full-auto. Yeah right. Can you spell entrapment?z
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 10:23:12 AM EDT
Ah, but I have since discovered a GOOD way to deal with witless bureaucrats!!! I have them put whatever BS they're floating INTO WRITING!! Either fax or e-mail. That scares the hell out them as they may to (gasp!) answer for their acts at a later date. In this instance I would have the stupid female fax me her list of requirements along with her DIRECT phone # & then I would've taken it my local BATF office & shown it to someone who knew how to count. Then ask them to call said stupid female & hold her hand while she counts to five. The funny part is the number of bureaucrats who REFUSE to put anything on paper. It's usually at this point that I ask them how they live on only $12,ooo a year that they're paid. >gg<
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 10:29:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Methos: thats phuckin bullshit. i hope everything works out for you.
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This is an agency that neither the FBI or DEA wants anything to do with, because of their sub-standard training and personnel.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 3:27:44 PM EDT
I always thought it was more of this.....
Originally Posted By BobCole: I ask them how they live on only $12,ooo a year that they're paid. >gg<
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Than this.....
Originally Posted By platform389: THE PROVISIONS OF THE EQUAL EMPLOYEMENT OPPORTUNTITY ACT HAVE BEEN COMPLIED WITH IN THE SELECTION OF EMPLOYEES FOR THIS POSITION
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They all impress me as equally substandard....
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 3:53:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 4:31:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 8:53:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mojo: 1GUNRUNNER, so what is your plan, bro?
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Well I am gonna sit down and think it over with dinner and beer at Angelo's with my friends in Texas [:D]
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 9:17:07 PM EDT
I personally witnessed this exchange.. BATF "agent"-"That's an assault rifle!" Shop owner-"No maam, that's a C-96 Mauser "Broomhandle" pistol. It's in the books as well.." Meplat-
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 9:29:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 9:37:50 PM EDT
Sounds just like that one incompetent ATF womenz in Unintended Consequences that does the compliance check on the FFL guy.
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 9:45:25 PM EDT
Imbroglio- Maybe, but this was in Phoenix, Arizona..I worked in the shop where it occured.. She was friendly, but bone stupid regarding firearms.. The shop owner basically walked her through the check. From what I've heard from other ClassIII FFL's, this is NOT an uncommon occurance..The "agent" doing the check ofen has less firearms experience than many 12 year olds.. Meplat-
Link Posted: 5/29/2002 9:46:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 5:52:52 AM EDT
The petty bureaucrat you talked to may not have explained things very clearly, but she was correct. BATF can issue an extension letter only if you submitted a renewal application before your license expired. The letter is to cover delays in getting the new license to you. Once your license expires, you're out of luck and must start the process from scratch.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 6:56:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 7:21:26 AM EDT
"[i]axing[/i] what I wanted"I [i]can'ts[/i] give ya that
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say dat one mo gin
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 8:29:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 8:30:07 AM EDT
They should shut this illegal organization down and transfer them to the 'new' fbi to sort mail or clean the toilets. Citizens will never be safe or free until the batf is disbanded.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 10:22:51 AM EDT
I would be happy with a law requiring ATF employees to dress like the rock band KISS. Then you'd know when to cross the street. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 10:39:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: I would be happy with a law requiring ATF employees to dress like the rock band KISS. Then you'd know when to cross the street. [rolleyes]
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Thak you, marvl. I got my laugh for the day.[beer]
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 11:24:52 AM EDT
Hope you have fire insurance! Seriously, I can just imagine the JBT squad scrambling--sliding down poles and mounting their vehicles, all mp5s and balaclavas. Bureaucracies put stupid people at the outer edges for a reason. In fact, they seek out the stupidest people imaginable just to create a barrier between you and the organization. I call them "flappers." The more flappers you have, the more important you are or the more you are trying to hide. If anyone doesn't think the ATF is evil, consider that all these rules and regulations have very little to do with the original tax collecting purpose and sending out death squads to roust people like Randy Weaver or Bob Stewart or the Branch Davidians is pretty rough business for the matter of collecting what is usually a nominal amount of tax. Meanwhile, our government engages in drug running, very questionable arms deals, organized crime, prohibition, you name it. Nope, we turned the corner into tyranny a long time ago when we let a bunch of assholes who have very little knowledge about firearms or "gun culture" (a term I am not all that comfortable using) lord over us like their rules are the ultimate law and vitally important to our national interests. Have fun getting your problems straightened out, enjoy your retirement. Hope you don't get perforated or violated before it's all over.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 12:42:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2002 12:54:42 PM EDT by deadeye47]
The U.S.P.S. is yet another Government run intity staffed by a bunch of Illeterate RETARDS who are sucking the big tit! I keep having run ins with them myself. I ordered something over the net from a Co. not far from Dallas. Had it shipped to my work address. The building is the tallest concrete structure in NORTH AMERICA and has been there (on the same spot)for 21 years! After waiting for several weeks I checked and it was sent back to the Company as not deliverable because it had a bad address!(Funny I get UPS and FED_EX deliveries at the same 'bad' address) I asked them to send it again. After 2 weeks its still not here. I went to the post office and talked to one of the 'Cliff Clavins' there after waiting in line for 14 minutes.(Five stations but only one open.) I told them I noticed on the web-site for tracking that my package was sent back AGAIN undeliverable because of bad address. The response from this overpaid paracite was "the USPS has a web site!" I was so angry I left before I ....well you know the phrase. I am in the process of writing this up and getting it to someone who works at the USPS who has an IQ greater than their age. I told the company to send my package by FED-EX GOT IT 2 DAYS LATER. Yeah, we need to raise the price of stamps again!!! FOR WHAT to hire more F^(kups?? Also having trouble getting my mail delivered at my home. I have a box at the street. My daughter parks her car on the curb occasionally. The fat hump that delivers the mail keeps leaving me a note saying he can't deliver my mail when cars BLOCK my mail box. She parks a full car length in front of the box! Isn't the price we pay for stamps to have our mail DELIVERED to our residence? I don't think I'm wrong on this one!! Hey "Porkcop" if ya get out of the truck on your route you might loose some of the ballast your collecting there! (Sorry for the rant folks!)
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 2:38:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2002 2:05:04 AM EDT by crowboy]
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 3:16:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 3:20:27 PM EDT
Record ALL your phone calls with the BATF. Make sure you tell them first before you begin the conversation.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:12:47 PM EDT
"The U.S.P.S. is yet another Government run intity staffed by a bunch of Illeterate RETARDS who are sucking the big tit! I keep having run ins with them myself. I ordered something over the net from a Co. not far from Dallas. Had it shipped to my work address. The building is the tallest concrete structure in NORTH AMERICA and has been there (on the same spot)for 21 years! After waiting for several weeks I checked and it was sent back to the Company as not deliverable because it had a bad address!(Funny I get UPS and FED_EX deliveries at the same 'bad' address) I asked them to send it again. After 2 weeks its still not here. I went to the post office and talked to one of the 'Cliff Clavins' there after waiting in line for 14 minutes.(Five stations but only one open.) I told them I noticed on the web-site for tracking that my package was sent back AGAIN undeliverable because of bad address. The response from this overpaid paracite was "the USPS has a web site!" I was so angry I left before I ....well you know the phrase. I am in the process of writing this up and getting it to someone who works at the USPS who has an IQ greater than their age. I told the company to send my package by FED-EX GOT IT 2 DAYS LATER. Yeah, we need to raise the price of stamps again!!! FOR WHAT to hire more F^(kups?? Also having trouble getting my mail delivered at my home. I have a box at the street. My daughter parks her car on the curb occasionally. The fat hump that delivers the mail keeps leaving me a note saying he can't deliver my mail when cars BLOCK my mail box. She parks a full car length in front of the box! Isn't the price we pay for stamps to have our mail DELIVERED to our residence? I don't think I'm wrong on this one!! Hey "Porkcop" if ya get out of the truck on your route you might loose some of the ballast your collecting there! (Sorry for the rant folks!) " I gotta agree with that I went over today to the post office and the queen of customer sevice from India behind the counter informed me that the secondary label on the side of the package ( I always put a backup label on a side just in case one gets tore up IT IS A DUPLICATE of the TO:& FROM: label on top) will confuse the carrier whom might look at the side label see no postage and not deliver the package,(???????!!!!!) so she hands me a thick black magic marker and has me obscure the second label then when it has been blacked out to her satisfaction she takes the package and places "priority mail" 4 inch wide label tape down both sides of the package covering up my magic markering I felt like asking her how one dimensional sight, illeterate mail carriers would know that the 2nd label was bolked completly out with 4 inches of tape completely covering it? But I wanted the package to go out today and get out of the PO before closing time or having to go by the local watering whole to find the postmaster and put her in her place. She will probably get to run the place when He retires. I thought You had to take a test to get a PO job ??
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