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Posted: 9/3/2004 9:47:57 PM EST

How can anybody NOT believe this is World War III?



- Moscow: Muslim Chechen terrorists attack a school, hold hundreds of children hostage, hundreds dead in rescue attempt, September, 2004.

- Russia: Muslim terrorist group claims responsibility for two hijacked & exploded Russian airliners that killed almost 90, August, 2004.

- Moscow: Muslim homicide-bomber kills 10 wounds over 30 in Moscow train station, August 2004.

- Chechnya: Muslim Chechen terrorists assassinate the Chechen President, May, 2004.

- Jordan: Al Qaeda plot to use chemical bombs in capital disrupted, April, 2004.

- Madrid: Al Qaeda bombs commuter trains, 200 dead, 1,500 wounded, March 11, 2004.

- Moscow: Muslim Chechen terrorists bomb a subway train killing 41, over 100 wounded, February 6, 2004.

- Pakistan: Al Qaeda conducts two presidential assassination attempts in less than two weeks, December, 2003.

- Istanbul: Al Qaeda linked to two truck bombs at synagogues that killed 27 and wounded 300, and two more bombings during a GWBush & Blair meeting in Turkey, November 15 and 20, 2003.

- Iraq: Al Qaeda involved in multiple attacks and bombings against US troops, UN diplomats, Red Cross workers and Iraqi citizens, 2003.

- Morocco: Al Qaeda linked to terrorist bombing that killed 41, May 17, 2003.

- Saudi Arabia: Al Qaeda bombs three residental areas, May 11, 2003.

- Pakistan: Al Qaeda plot to fly suicide plane into US consulate disrupted, failed, May 2003.

- London: Al Qaeda followers arrested, Finsbury Mosque raided, for planned ricin attacks, January, 2003.

- Singapore: Al Qaeda-linked group arrested planning attacks against American School, January 8, 2003.

- Kenya: Al Qaeda bombs Mombasa Hotel killing 13; attempt to shoot down airliner with shoulder-fired missile fails, November 23, 2002.

- Moscow: Muslim Chechen terrorists hold 800 people hostage for 3 days, 120 dead, October 23, 2002.

- Washington DC/Maryland: Muslim terrorist "Beltway Snipers" kill 10 civilians, wound three, October 2002.

- Philippines: Al Qaeda-linked group bombs shopping centers and bus in Zamboanga and Manila, October 17 & 18, 2002.

- Bali: Al Qaeda-linked group bombs resort club, nearly 200 killed and 300 wounded, October 12, 2002.

- Yemen: Al Qaeda bomb a French oil tanker off Yemenese harbor, October 6, 2002.

- Los Angeles: Muslim terrorist attacks El Al terminal at LAX, July 4, 2002.

- Tunisia: Al Qaeda explodes a fuel tanker outside a synagogue, April 2002.

- Israel: Palestinian terrorist "Passover bombing" at Park Hotel in Netanya, March 27, 2002.

- New York: Muslim "shoe-bomber" tries to ignite C4 hidden in shoe aboard airliner from New York to Paris, December 22, 2001

- India: Muslim terrorist attack on Indian national parliament kills 12, December 13, 2001.

- New York, Washington DC: Al Qaeda hijack planes and fly into WTC & Pentagon, over 3,000 killed, September 11, 2001.

- Netherlands and Belguim: Al Qaeda plots to bomb US Embassy in Paris, munitions depot and NATO headquarters in Brussels disrupted, fails, September 2001.

- Germany: Al Qaeda plot to bomb cathedral housing European Parliament in Strasbourg France disrupted, fails, December 2000.

- Yemen: Al Qaeda bomb the USS Cole, 17 killed, 37 wounded, October 12, 2000.

- Israel: Muslim Palestinians begin "al-Aqsa Intifada" in Sept 2000, almost 1,000 Israelis killed by terrorists.

- Los Angeles, Jordan, Yemen: Al Qaeda Y2K plots to bomb LAX, tourist sites in Jordan and the USS Sullivans all fail, December, 1999.

- Kenya & Tanzania: Al Qaeda bombs both US Embassies, 81 killed, 1,700 wounded, August 7, 1998.

- Egypt: Muslim terrorists kill 71 tourists in Luxor, 1997.

- Saudi Arabia: Al Qaeda bombing of Khobar Towers US barracks, 1996.

- Ethiopia: Al Qaeda plot to assassinate Egyptian President Mubarak disrupted, fails, 1995.

- United States: Al Qaeda plot to blow up 12 airliners is disrupted, fails, 1995.

- Philippines: Al Qaeda plot to assassinate President Clinton disrupted, fails, 1995.

- Paris: Muslim terrorists hijack airliner, plot to fly plane into Eiffel Tower fails, 1994.

- Manila: Al Qaeda plot to assassinate Pope John Paul II disrupted, fails, 1994.

- New York: Muslim terrorists bomb the WTC in New York (the first attempt), 1993.

- Somalia: Muslim terrorists attack against US Blackhawk helicopters, deaths of US troops, 1993.

- Scotland: Muslim terrorists blow up Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, 1988.

- Athens: Muslim terrorists blow up TWA 840 on approach to Athens airport, 1986.

- Egypt: Muslim terrorists hijack Achille Lauro cruise ship in the Mediterranian, 1985.

- Athens: Muslim terrorists hijack TWA 847 from Athens to Rome, 1985.

- Beriut: Muslim terrorists bomb the US Embassy (killing 63) and later the US Marine barracks (killing 241), 1983,

- Tehran: Muslim radicals invade US Embassy, hold American hostages for 444 days, 1979.


Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:50:08 PM EST
I believe we are in a global conflict, but I would not call it WWII... YET!!!!!!

Someday it may escalte to it.

But at this moment I believe we are in the stirrings. The true war has yet to start.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:50:45 PM EST
When do we end it?

GWB is our best bet.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:51:09 PM EST
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:51:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
When do we end it?

GWB is our best bet.



GWB is our best bet to end the current conflict.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:53:34 PM EST
I hope not! People could die! We might kill some muslims! Jesus help us.

During WWII we killed families on boats coming out of Japan because we were afraid they might radio to homeland and warn of our attacks. This is how war was won, not by pussy-footing around. Seems like too many are worried about hurting "innocents".
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:53:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
I believe we are in a global conflict, but I would not call it WWII... YET!!!!!!

Someday it may escalte to it.

But at this moment I believe we are in the stirrings. The true war has yet to start.



You're living in the 20th century. The days of formal declarations of war against a single sovereign nation are as dead as the British Revolutionary War skirmish lines.

It's war.

It covers the entire world. From the US to Russia, Africa, Israel, Malaysia, the Philippines.

What more do we need to see or hear?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:54:24 PM EST
Can it be a World War without France and Germany participating?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:55:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 9:56:46 PM EST by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:
Can it be a World War without France and Germany participating?

They're playing the role that Poland did at the start of WWII.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:57:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:58:11 PM EST
You're correct, of course, but historically World Wars haven't been called such until they were concluded.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:00:32 PM EST
I need to see a united front.

I need to see people (other than those who volunteer to serve out military for I am one) make true sacrefices.

This is a global CONFLICT, but this is no where near the conflict that my grandfather fought in the mountains of Burma for or my great uncle died in Muesse Argonne for.

Those were World Wars.

Today we are fighting vermin. Cowards who kill innocent children. Yes they must be destroyed, yes they are a threat. Dont think for a minute I think we are not in danger from them.

But to compare our struggle of today with the struggle against Nazi Germany or Imperialist Japan is foolish.

Today if we screw up some civilians may die. But I will guarantee you that that is the extent of the Muslim threat. They will not topple our civilization. Our victory is assured. The muslims have no hope for victory. It is only a matter of time.

To me a World War is a war in which the fate of civilization hangs in the balance, and I just do not see that today.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:01:29 PM EST
It goes back further, Look up the battles of Vienna and Khotim...

Then thank the Polish for saving western civilization, time after time after time...
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:04:58 PM EST
Actually, it's World War IV

www.melchinger.com/war/WW4.htm
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:09:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

To me a World War is a war in which the fate of civilization hangs in the balance, and I just do not see that today.



Excuse this comment, but please don't fool yourself.


Modern Civilization is fighting for it's very existence right now in the streets of Russia and other places around the world. It will come here. It's only a matter of time. The problem must be dealt with now, because people are dying now. Pull your head out of the sand and look around.

Yes this isn't a classic war in the sense of WWII, but it is a war non the less.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:13:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 10:16:21 PM EST by rayra]
Macallan, you left one major conflict place off that list (that I can see) - Thailand is having continuous strife in their Muslim south, bordering with muslim-dominated Malaysia.

April 23, '04 - Two killed, 15 schools on fire in Thai Muslim south
Apr 28, 04 - 112 die in Thailand's quash of militants
May 5, 04 - Troops boost Thai muslim south; More attacks feared
Jun 21, 04 - Insurgency Boils up in Thailand
Jun 28 04 - Arrests foil southern bomb plot
Aug 12 04 - Militants unleash firebomb attacks in Thailand's restive Muslim south


EVERYWHERE that 'Dar al Islam' (House of Islam) touches the rest of the World, there are murders, bombings. The rest of the World is considered by Islam to be the 'Dar al Harb' - The House of War.

Dar Al Harb, mofos. We are LIVING in it. Islam's terminology.

But some of you go right ahead, tout 'Religious Freedom!'. Everything will be fine.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:15:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 10:19:08 PM EST by WI_Rifleman]
WWIII very well may arise from the ashes of this current conflict. Do not think I dont see the threat.

It will become WWIII when the Terrorists become a MAJOR threat to civilization. Right now they are just thugs in dirty night shirts.

When will they become a major threat? When they possess the weapons to destroy our civilization.

When they have their hands on Nuclear weapons or a severe Biological plague they will constitute a major threat. But right now they are just thugs that viscously murder little children.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:18:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 10:19:02 PM EST by Cableman]

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
But right now they are just thugs that beat up on little children.




Don't you mean thugs who shoot children in the back and kill them? Thats what I saw happen.

I am very thankful these people don't yet have a nuke or a bio agent, because the first thing they will do when they get it, is use it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:18:36 PM EST
The media just hides it...it's been going on for a long time already
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:19:26 PM EST
i fixed it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:20:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
I believe we are in a global conflict, but I would not call it WWII... YET!!!!!!

Someday it may escalte to it.

But at this moment I believe we are in the stirrings. The true war has yet to start.



I wouldn't call it WWII either. That started about 60 years ago
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:22:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By rasanders22:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
I believe we are in a global conflict, but I would not call it WWII... YET!!!!!!

Someday it may escalte to it.

But at this moment I believe we are in the stirrings. The true war has yet to start.



I wouldn't call it WWII either. That started about 60 years ago



sorry about the typo, but you get what I meant.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:25:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
Actually, it's World War IV

www.melchinger.com/war/WW4.htm



+1
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:40:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
WWIII very well may arise from the ashes of this current conflict. Do not think I dont see the threat.

It will become WWIII when the Terrorists become a MAJOR threat to civilization. Right now they are just thugs in dirty night shirts.

When will they become a major threat? When they possess the weapons to destroy our civilization.

When they have their hands on Nuclear weapons or a severe Biological plague they will constitute a major threat. But right now they are just thugs that beat up on little children.


Ever heard of Saddam's WMD programs and funding / hosting of several leading terrorists, including Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, $25,000 payments to Pali families for murdering Jews?

Ever heard of Paki scientist Khan, who was leading the proliferation of Muslim nuclear bomb technology across several nations tied to Pakistan?

Ever heard of the Uranium enrichment equipment that Libya surrendered to the USA 5 days after Saddam was dragged from his spider hole, and which now sits at Oak Ridge?

Ever heard of the Heavy (Breeder) Reactor the vastly-Oil-rich Iranians are building, claiming it is for energy needs, even while their military leaders publicly swear to drop the first warheads on Israel regardless of the retaliatory cost? A type of reactor that specifically generates nuclear weapons-grade material as waste (as opposed to a 'Light' Reactor). A reactor that is slated to receive it first dose of nuclear fuel in about 10 months from now? All while a muslim (El Baradei) leads the UN's IAEA which is supposed to be stopping signatories from doing exactly what Iran is doing. Every week, Iran goes through a a 'Cheat and Retreat' cycle, barring inspectors, then allowing them, swearing to cooperate, then refusing - and EVERY WEEK, their centrifuge enrichment program continues, their missile manufacturing continues, their Leading mullahs say in public that they will USE them as soon as they have them.

Your 'thugs in nightshirts' is generally correct, for 90% of the AK-toting jihadis. But there is a core that ever day works on WMD, chemical, biological and nuclear technologies.
Before this decade is out, there will be an Islamist terrorist WMD megastrike on the West.
And it will almost certainly be yet another follow-up strike on Manhattan, or a completion strike on the Capitol.
NOW is the time we should be acting, and not dismissing them as 'thugs in nightshirts'.

Our FedGov is doing a lot, in many areas, but nowhere near enough, or stringent enough.
6000++mi of borders totally unsecured.
State Dept STILL issuing visas to known terror associates - see the Visa that just got cancelled at the 11th hr by Homeland Security, of a jihadi "professor" whose brother and father are principles in the Muslim Brotherhood (HUGE ancient Islamic terror group), who was coing to WORK at Notre Dame.
We've STILL got something like 40-45,000 Islamic foreign nationals on expired visas within our borders, and almost nothing is being done to round them up and deport them.
We still allow House of Saud to fund Muslim student Associations and fund departmental chairs in our major universities.
We still allow hordes of Arabist / Terror-apologists to inhabit our State Department, to go through the 'revolving door' and leave FedGov to go to work for 'Think Tanks', appearing on CNN et al every 15mins to shuck and jive for Islam.
We KNOW fully a third of the Mosques / Masjids in the CONUS are run / controlled by Salafists, actively recruiting and collecting funds for Jihad.

Three years after jihadists smashed the World Trade Center and murdered more US Citizens than died at Pearl Harbor.

We are NOT doing enough to secure or Nation from this Islamofascist threat, external and INternal.
And all the while, our own citizens excuse them, coddle them, fear them, and their terrorist-apologits front organizations like CAIR (who themselves have had at least 5 founding members indicted and imprisoned on terrorism-related charges) use our own Freedoms and Bill of Rights and Media AGAINST us. While CAIR's list of favored Imams STILL gets invited to give 'sensitivity training' to the FBI.
While our own TSA subverts their mandate and drags their heels managing to certify and arm a whopping 400 pilots out of some 50,000, in THREE YEARS since our planes were commandeered.

And while our own board admins ban people for getting upset about it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:43:12 PM EST
All I am saying is its not WWIII yet, total war is still in the future.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:43:43 PM EST
You're damn right this is WWIII.

We may not be sending 1,000 bombers over the capital cities of the muslim nations that finance, support, and encourage these pigs, but make no mistake this is indeed WWIII. The shear intensity of a full scale world war may not be present RIGHT NOW, as far as millions of men deployed, the amount of weapons and supplies manufactured, and millions of casualities, but we are on the brink of such a horrible climax.

This is a battle between civilization and fanatical savages. The liberals and apologists do not and in fact refuse to see it. Don't make their mistake.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:49:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_G:
You're damn right this is WWIII.

We may not be sending 1,000 bombers over the capital cities of the muslim nations that finance, support, and encourage these pigs, but make no mistake this is indeed WWIII. The shear intensity of a full scale world war may not be present RIGHT NOW, as far as millions of men deployed, the amount of weapons and supplies manufactured, and millions of casualities, but we are on the brink of such a horrible climax.

This is a battle between civilization and fanatical savages. The liberals and apologists do not and in fact refuse to see it. Don't make their mistake.



Yes we may be on the BRINK of WWIII, but we are not there yet.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 11:18:35 PM EST
I beg to differ.

We are in WWIII, it just isn't as intense yet as WWII was.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 12:20:16 AM EST
You can't compare the situation in Chechnya, which was 100% provoked by Russia, to the 9-11 events. Putin should have been smacked across the face by the West because of the rampage on Grosny. He is leading his own little colonial war there and Chechnyans have abandoned all hope that the Western countries will ever stopp him. Don't underestimate Russia- even if it is convenient now to do so...
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 12:30:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 1:13:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 1:15:16 AM EST by Cato]
I know, but that is ridiculous and self-judging. Al Quaeda is whole other level of ideological warfare which is directed against the simple existence of the West.
A few years ago the people in Chechnya simply fought so that the world realizes what the Russians are up to. But since then, they feel the West has abandoned them, radical islamic groups grow. People there have suffered for centuries under Russia, so they take whomever they get to free them. I really don't hope that (unwillingly) the Russians are providing a HUGE base for Al Quaeda- the whole Caukasus area. ...
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 1:47:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:
Can it be a World War without France and Germany participating?




[referee]no hitting below the belt[/referee]



(nice dig! )
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:08:34 AM EST
As someone who repeatedly insists that WWII began with the 1931 Japanese invasion of Manchuria, you're damn right I think this is WWIII.

Strangely, historians seem to base most things on Europe - until Europe gets involved, it is not a world war. As such, we have the "Sino-Japanese War" in Asia, with WWII not "officially" starting until Hitler invaded Poland. Today, it again seems it will take direct conflict in Europe before academics grasp the reality of this conflict.

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:35:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:51:51 AM EST
Amusing the statement that we are a nation of pussies. That's wrong.

On the eve of WW2, the same thing was said of our youth and look how they rose to the challenge. I can't recall the excate phase but the youth of the 30's and 40's were described as lazy, self-centered, pampered do nothings only intrested in music, girls and cars. (I'll try to find the quote from the newspaper back then)

I believe when called upon, there is something in our national make-up that confirms we as a people can rise to any adversity thrown at us.

There will always be war. Some large, some small. Wars change in scope and size. I finished a book that drew the conclusion that WW2 ended with Vietnam. The ramifications of the WW2 conflict was finally put to and end with that war. What's different, to me, is this war on terror isn't wage against a conventional type of army.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:15:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 3:16:31 AM EST by wganz]

Originally Posted By Cato:
You can't compare the situation in Chechnya, which was 100% provoked by Russia, to the 9-11 events. Putin should have been smacked across the face by the West because of the rampage on Grosny. He is leading his own little colonial war there and Chechnyans have abandoned all hope that the Western countries will ever stopp him. Don't underestimate Russia- even if it is convenient now to do so...



Chechnya is part of Russia. They had a Moslem rebellion that was ineffectively put down using the old Soviet tactics. The Chechnians then carried their war into Russia. Russian President Putin did the right thing and ended this rebellion in the same manner as the American Southern rebellion. The Russians found a mass grave of 5,400 beheaded Christians that refused to convert to Islam and 19,000 Chrisitan slaves after they took Grozny.

The Chechnyians started it. The Russians finished it. Just that the panty waisted Western countries twisted Russia's arm economically because they said that the Russians were violating the poor little Chechnian monster's human rights.

Now, where are the cries for the Leftists that the women & children at the Beslan school had their human rights violated? Or are they saying that they need a group hug to overcome their feelings of insecurity and isolation that has lead to such.

Really tired of Muslim apologists.

wganz

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:25:47 AM EST
If China marches East nothing will stand . People forget the magnitude and underestimate the lure of dominance . They should respect the U.S. more ; after all We made efforts to defend them from the japs who were cruel. There are People who think a nuke will take care of this problem if they become aggressive towards us , it will not unless you can get 'em to huddle together . The Fact remains our USA is not perfect but we have took up for everyone at least once ! ! ! I am proud of my country for standing against aggression unfortunately there are those that hate us for that ...............still I see are troops giving , handing out water , fixin' problems for strangers ; we are the good guys . Some other cultures would destroy the weak and the old and the young and the unarmed . I am thankful for the CONSTITUTION that makes us different and better because there are those of us who will not let hate rule our hearts and minds . We do what we got to do to promote freedom however restricted it has become because of aggressors .
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:43:54 AM EST
Convinced me Mac!
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:08:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By A_G:
You're damn right this is WWIII.

We may not be sending 1,000 bombers over the capital cities of the muslim nations that finance, support, and encourage these pigs,...



This worked pretty damned well during WWII. I personally believe it's where we're screwing up right now. Cities that harbor & hide these fanatics need to pay and pay dearly. Sure the "world" would be really upset about it, but what are they going to do?

Holy shrines? Tough shit. Innocents have 24 hours to clear out. Level the place. Repeat as necessary. Hell we warned Japan what cities were next on the list before we sent in the B-29 full of incendiaries. (I know Iraq won't burn like Japan did.)

I still see us fighting a tit for tat war. If we do, sooner or later they'll see that it ain't gonna work with the the USA.

Just my take. I haven't read a whole lot of history past WWII.

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:16:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By A_G:
You're damn right this is WWIII.

We may not be sending 1,000 bombers over the capital cities of the muslim nations that finance, support, and encourage these pigs,...



This worked pretty damned well during WWII. I personally believe it's where we're screwing up right now. Cities that harbor & hide these fanatics need to pay and pay dearly. Sure the "world" would be really upset about it, but what are they going to do?

Holy shrines? Tough shit. Innocents have 24 hours to clear out. Level the place. Repeat as necessary. Hell we warned Japan what cities were next on the list before we sent in the B-29 full of incendiaries. (I know Iraq won't burn like Japan did.)

I still see us fighting a tit for tat war. If we do, sooner or later they'll see that it ain't gonna work with the the USA.

Just my take. I haven't read a whole lot of history past WWII.





Tit for tat is a good analogy. We should not be doing this. We should be going balls to the wall. In war there is only victory or defeat, a tie only prolongs the inevitable, look at North and South Korea.

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:21:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar10er:

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By A_G:
You're damn right this is WWIII.

We may not be sending 1,000 bombers over the capital cities of the muslim nations that finance, support, and encourage these pigs,...



This worked pretty damned well during WWII. I personally believe it's where we're screwing up right now. Cities that harbor & hide these fanatics need to pay and pay dearly. Sure the "world" would be really upset about it, but what are they going to do?

Holy shrines? Tough shit. Innocents have 24 hours to clear out. Level the place. Repeat as necessary. Hell we warned Japan what cities were next on the list before we sent in the B-29 full of incendiaries. (I know Iraq won't burn like Japan did.)

I still see us fighting a tit for tat war. If we do, sooner or later they'll see that it ain't gonna work with the the USA.

Just my take. I haven't read a whole lot of history past WWII.





Tit for tat is a good analogy. We should not be doing this. We should be going balls to the wall. In war there is only victory or defeat, a tie only prolongs the inevitable, look at North and South Korea.




I just re-read that post and I wasn't very clear. For the record, I want the tit for tat shit to stop, not continue.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 5:59:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
When do we end it?

GWB is our best bet.



GWB is our best bet to end the current conflict.





There ARE those who think GW is responsible for escalating it. I am NOT one of them.

AB
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:09:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 7:06:07 AM EST by LWilde]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
How can anybody NOT believe this is World War III?



- Moscow: Muslim Chechen terrorists attack a school, hold hundreds of children hostage, hundreds dead in rescue attempt, September, 2004.

- Russia: Muslim terrorist group claims responsibility for two hijacked & exploded Russian airliners that killed almost 90, August, 2004.

- Moscow: Muslim homicide-bomber kills 10 wounds over 30 in Moscow train station, August 2004.

- Chechnya: Muslim Chechen terrorists assassinate the Chechen President, May, 2004.

- Jordan: Al Qaeda plot to use chemical bombs in capital disrupted, April, 2004.

- Madrid: Al Qaeda bombs commuter trains, 200 dead, 1,500 wounded, March 11, 2004.

- Moscow: Muslim Chechen terrorists bomb a subway train killing 41, over 100 wounded, February 6, 2004.

- Pakistan: Al Qaeda conducts two presidential assassination attempts in less than two weeks, December, 2003.

- Istanbul: Al Qaeda linked to two truck bombs at synagogues that killed 27 and wounded 300, and two more bombings during a GWBush & Blair meeting in Turkey, November 15 and 20, 2003.

- Iraq: Al Qaeda involved in multiple attacks and bombings against US troops, UN diplomats, Red Cross workers and Iraqi citizens, 2003.

- Morocco: Al Qaeda linked to terrorist bombing that killed 41, May 17, 2003.

- Saudi Arabia: Al Qaeda bombs three residental areas, May 11, 2003.

- Pakistan: Al Qaeda plot to fly suicide plane into US consulate disrupted, failed, May 2003.

- London: Al Qaeda followers arrested, Finsbury Mosque raided, for planned ricin attacks, January, 2003.

- Singapore: Al Qaeda-linked group arrested planning attacks against American School, January 8, 2003.

- Kenya: Al Qaeda bombs Mombasa Hotel killing 13; attempt to shoot down airliner with shoulder-fired missile fails, November 23, 2002.

- Moscow: Muslim Chechen terrorists hold 800 people hostage for 3 days, 120 dead, October 23, 2002.

- Washington DC/Maryland: Muslim terrorist "Beltway Snipers" kill 10 civilians, wound three, October 2002.

- Philippines: Al Qaeda-linked group bombs shopping centers and bus in Zamboanga and Manila, October 17 & 18, 2002.

- Bali: Al Qaeda-linked group bombs resort club, nearly 200 killed and 300 wounded, October 12, 2002.

- Yemen: Al Qaeda bomb a French oil tanker off Yemenese harbor, October 6, 2002.

- Los Angeles: Muslim terrorist attacks El Al terminal at LAX, July 4, 2002.

- Tunisia: Al Qaeda explodes a fuel tanker outside a synagogue, April 2002.

- Israel: Palestinian terrorist "Passover bombing" at Park Hotel in Netanya, March 27, 2002.

- New York: Muslim "shoe-bomber" tries to ignite C4 hidden in shoe aboard airliner from New York to Paris, December 22, 2001

- India: Muslim terrorist attack on Indian national parliament kills 12, December 13, 2001.

- New York, Washington DC: Al Qaeda hijack planes and fly into WTC & Pentagon, over 3,000 killed, September 11, 2001.

- Netherlands and Belguim: Al Qaeda plots to bomb US Embassy in Paris, munitions depot and NATO headquarters in Brussels disrupted, fails, September 2001.

- Germany: Al Qaeda plot to bomb cathedral housing European Parliament in Strasbourg France disrupted, fails, December 2000.

- Yemen: Al Qaeda bomb the USS Cole, 17 killed, 37 wounded, October 12, 2000.

- Israel: Muslim Palestinians begin "al-Aqsa Intifada" in Sept 2000, almost 1,000 Israelis killed by terrorists.

- Los Angeles, Jordan, Yemen: Al Qaeda Y2K plots to bomb LAX, tourist sites in Jordan and the USS Sullivans all fail, December, 1999.

- Kenya & Tanzania: Al Qaeda bombs both US Embassies, 81 killed, 1,700 wounded, August 7, 1998.

- Egypt: Muslim terrorists kill 71 tourists in Luxor, 1997.

- Saudi Arabia: Al Qaeda bombing of Khobar Towers US barracks, 1996.

- Ethiopia: Al Qaeda plot to assassinate Egyptian President Mubarak disrupted, fails, 1995.

- United States: Al Qaeda plot to blow up 12 airliners is disrupted, fails, 1995.

- Philippines: Al Qaeda plot to assassinate President Clinton disrupted, fails, 1995.

- Paris: Muslim terrorists hijack airliner, plot to fly plane into Eiffel Tower fails, 1994.

- Manila: Al Qaeda plot to assassinate Pope John Paul II disrupted, fails, 1994.

- New York: Muslim terrorists bomb the WTC in New York (the first attempt), 1993.

- Somalia: Muslim terrorists attack against US Blackhawk helicopters, deaths of US troops, 1993.

- Scotland: Muslim terrorists blow up Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, 1988.

- Athens: Muslim terrorists blow up TWA 840 on approach to Athens airport, 1986.

- Egypt: Muslim terrorists hijack Achille Lauro cruise ship in the Mediterranian, 1985.

- Athens: Muslim terrorists hijack TWA 847 from Athens to Rome, 1985.

- Beriut: Muslim terrorists bomb the US Embassy (killing 63) and later the US Marine barracks (killing 241), 1983,

- Tehran: Muslim radicals invade US Embassy, hold American hostages for 444 days, 1979.





Of course this is WW III. Most folks fail to grasp that because (1) we tend not to think locally and regionally rather than globally, (2) we tend to think with western civilization logic, (3) we tend see the world through a relatively narrow, fast moving temporal lens and to forget quickly. (How many of you...your friends and family have "forgotten" with a lack of intensity, 9/11?). Finally we tend to see our world through a set of Judeo-Christian morals and standards of behavior. Murdering innocents isn't something we see as a viable tactic in any sort of war, regardless of what our own Left says.

Beheading prisoners, shooting women in the back of the head, stabbing flight attendants in the eyes with box cutters, murdering Olympic athletes, blowing up trains and buses and killing thousands of women and babies each year all over the world, taking control of a full airliner over the Atlantic and diving it into te sea, driving a truck bomb into a barracks filled with sleeping American Marines, waging open war on a peaceful neighbor in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1971 (And LOSING miserably!), driving a homocide boat into an American destroyer on a peaceful mission....and flying planes into buildings with thousands of people in them just isn't something we do. There's much more...I just don't have the time to waste listing all of their terrible crimes against humanity.

We hung Nazis and Jap facists after WW II for these same sorts of crimes. We ARE in WW III. Anyone who does not grasp that and the danger is poses to each and every one of us and our families and friends is a short sighted fool. Stay alert, stay safe and practice often.

Finally...do a bit of reading on why they hate us and you will quickly see why this is going to be a long war and why Bush and his staff DO have a good grasp of this entire situation. Some books by professor Bernard Lewis are a good starting point.

<<Religion of peace my ass! >>
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:21:54 AM EST
Don't forget the Israeli Embassy and the AMIA (Israeli/Jewish Asociation) here in Buenos Aires...
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:25:38 AM EST
This is WWIV - but lets not quibble on that - III/IV read on

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/podhoretz.htm

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:29:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
How can anybody NOT believe this is World War III?







Three or four, who's quibbling?????????
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:08:57 AM EST
Hehe Liberty, none ATM - IM certainly not - but in discussion such as this, Ive seen it devolve.

Couldnt find Woolsey's speech originally - here it is - he's been ringing the bell for a while. The periodic nature of the attacks unfortunately relieves the pressure of crisis. We are early in the game and the majority of Americans prefer to see this as a series of isolated, if horrific, events. Few have any idea what we face.

"The midnight ride of James Woolsey"

http://tedstrong.com/jameswoolsey.shtml

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:14:12 AM EST


Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:
Can it be a World War without France and Germany participating?




What do you mean? France has already surrendered, and Germany is on the other side.



Just like every other world war.

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:16:10 AM EST
Don't worry, they're just coincidences.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:30:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 8:11:00 AM EST
WW IV.
WW III was the Cold War. Fought long and hard.
This new one deserves its own title.
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