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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 6/28/2001 9:30:29 PM EDT
World Court claims U.S. jurisdiction By Betsy Pisik THE WASHINGTON TIMES NEW YORK -- The International Court of Justice yesterday criticized the state of Arizona for executing a German national in defiance of its wishes, insisting in its most explicit language that ICJ orders are binding on U.S. and other national courts. Top Stories • China, N. Korea hit with sanctions • Rights panelists exchange accusations • Fed cuts rates by quarter point • Faith plan tweaked to address Constitutional issues • Inner Loop grinds to a halt American authorities were scrambling yesterday to understand the consequences. They could not say whether the judgment would open the United States to financial claims from Germany, or whether the ruling would have any material impact on the U.S. legal system. "The case presented complex issues and the decision requires careful study," said State Department spokesman Philip Reeker. "We are undertaking a close and careful review of it in its entirety." The ICJ, also known as the World Court, had previously criticized the United States for breaching the Vienna Convention by failing to meet its obligation to notify a consulate when foreign nationals were charged with crimes. In March 1999, Arizona executed Walter LaGrand, an indigent German national who with his brother was convicted of fatally stabbing a bank manager during a botched robbery in 1982. At the request of Germany, the Hague-based World Court issued a provisional order -- a sort of injunction -- ordering Arizona not to execute him until it could make a final ruling on the matter. LaGrand was executed, as scheduled, the following day. The court criticized the U.S. solicitor general and the governor of Arizona for treating its provisionary order as "mere exhortation." Because the court can take more than two years to decide a case, these provisional orders are most often injunctions, intended to freeze the action until the court can rule. "By failing to take all measures at its disposal to ensure that Walter LaGrand was not executed pending the [ICJ's] final decision ... the United States breached the obligation incumbent upon it," the judges wrote in a majority opinion. The ICJ hears disputes between nations. Its decisions are considered binding and can only be appealed through the U.N. Security Council. Yesterday's ruling essentially reinforced that. "This is an interesting step forward in terms of the ICJ asserting itself," said Lee Casey, a former Justice Department lawyer and expert on international law. "It shows that the court is being more assertive than it has been in the past, and given where we are in the development of international law and these new criminal courts, that's important." Mr. Casey said the ICJ is clearly concerned that the U.S. government did not do enough to compel the state of Arizona to comply with its order. "But the federal government doesn't necessarily have the authority to do that."
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 9:31:31 PM EDT
In a previous case involving foreign nationals on death row, then-Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright appealed to the Supreme Court to halt the execution of a Paraguayan rapist and murderer in Northern Virginia. The local jurisdiction proceeded with the execution as scheduled. State Department officials have acknowledged that the Vienna Convention was violated in the LaGrand case, and say that a sweeping program is under way to educate state and local jurisdictions on consular notification. "We think consular notification is important for Americans abroad and we take it very seriously," Mr. Reeker said yesterday. "We recognize that we have to provide consular notification to foreign nationals in the United States." American lawyers argued at The Hague two years ago that the trial was fair and that the LaGrands had ample time -- nearly 15 years -- to run through appeals in four different courts. Nor is Germany claiming its innocence. Karl and Walter LaGrand were born in Germany but moved to the United States as toddlers. Their mother married an American serviceman, and they are said to have had no accent. In 1982, the brothers panicked during a robbery and fatally stabbed the manager of a Tucson bank with a letter opener when he was unable to open the safe. A teller was also critically injured. Karl LaGrand was executed in the Arizona gas chamber in February 1999. His brother, Walter, followed him two weeks later -- one day after the German government petitioned the World Court to halt the execution. "This state of affairs is of great significance," Gerhard Westdickenberg, Germany's legal representative, argued at the ICJ hearing two years ago. "Not just for Germans, but for all foreign nationals arrested in the United States." The failure to notify foreign authorities "could have particularly tragic consequences in cases in which, like in ours, the death penalty may be imposed." he said. The German government said yesterday that it knows of four more Germans facing the death penalty in the United States. The ICJ ruling comes at a time when American allies, particularly in Europe, are increasingly protesting the use of the death penalty in the United States. The European Union has made the elimination of the death penalty a condition of membership. Many Latin American countries and the Vatican also oppose the death penalty, and the American Bar Association has suggested a moratorium on executions until questions over its fairness can be addressed. In his arguments two years ago, State Department lawyer James Thessin suggested the German suit was a ruse to "litigate the death penalty under the guise of a violation" of the Vienna Convention. "We must not allow Germany to lead us into ... restructuring the United States criminal justice system," he said.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 9:52:08 PM EDT
Looks like to me, you commit a crime, kill one person, critically injure another in a certain state of the US, ----you should pay for your crime in that state of the US.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 9:59:18 PM EDT
Well, there goes our independence people. They're screwing around w/ us. And they said that we weren't following the treaty!!! Dang it, who signed it!!! Some SOB gave our freedom away way. UN vs American People (Notice I said American people.....knowing the fed, they would side w/ the UN. Tea party anyone????)
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 10:09:27 PM EDT
This has to be a hoax. There is no one trying to take away the sovereignty of the United States. Only paranoid people that see black helicopters would believe it.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:27:10 PM EDT
Damn Imbrog|io, You really are coming around to reality aren't you? Too bad not everyone can enroll in a 12 step Tin-Foil-Hat's Anonymous program like I have. There would be a lot less talk about that MK Ultra/UN World Domination/Black Helicopter silliness here! [:D] rDAm
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:44:49 PM EDT
I am just fulfilling a new year's resolution.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 11:54:43 PM EDT
I'm definatly not saying any foreign country should have control over ours, but I think we should have notified their consulate and follwed any rules we had agreed to allready. Personally I think we should declare that anyone entering the United States, legally or illegally will be subject to all laws applying to US Citizens as well as further restrictions. That way we can just say hey, they were warned not to expect foreign nationality to keep them out of trouble.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 12:06:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2001 12:12:37 AM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Originally Posted By Capro: I'm definatly not saying any foreign country should have control over ours, but I think we should have notified their consulate and follwed any rules we had agreed to allready.
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You saved me the typing. Anytime an American is arrested in a foreign country, the US emabassy/ consulate is supposed to be informed. So don't be surprised when some American schmuck spends the rest of his life in a Turkish prison. Not having the benefit of contact with a US official. And we all pretty much guess how fair a Turkish court would be.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 5:03:42 AM EDT
So the world court enjoins us from executing the guy, but we executed him anyway. Then they whine and boo-hoo about. Now people claim this is further "evidence" they are trying to take our sovereignty away? What a crock of BS. We told them to go to hell, and all they can do is cry about it. Hell, we even signed a treaty saying we would follow what they said, but we flat out ignored it. How one can construe this as us giving away our sovereingty is pure paranoid-conspiratorial delusion.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 12:54:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Avtomat: So the world court enjoins us from executing the guy, but we executed him anyway. Then they whine and boo-hoo about. Now people claim this is further "evidence" they are trying to take our sovereignty away? What a crock of BS. We told them to go to hell, and all they can do is cry about it. Hell, we even signed a treaty saying we would follow what they said, but we flat out ignored it. How one can construe this as us giving away our sovereingty is pure paranoid-conspiratorial delusion. "This is an interesting step forward in terms of the ICJ asserting itself," said Lee Casey, a former Justice Department lawyer and expert on international law. "It shows that the court is being more assertive than it has been in the past, and given where we are in the development of international law and these new criminal courts, that's important."
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Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm tin foil
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 1:56:16 PM EDT
Fuck'um[-!-]
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 2:00:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jason Demond: Fuck'um[-!-]
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I just clicked on here to say that so instead I will say this... I GOT YOUR JURISDICTION RIGHT HERE! [img]http://ubb.mcuzi.com/ubb/icons/icon46.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 2:19:26 PM EDT
The gauntlet was thrown by the state of Arizona, now the ICJ has to declare war on the state of Arizona to resolve this problem. It's the only way. =)
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 2:29:39 PM EDT
Say, if the Germans don't like it, they can declare war on us and try again. I guess their butts have stopped soring since the last kicking.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 3:02:13 PM EDT
ALL YOUR JURISDICTION ARE BELONG TO US! [(:)]
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